I thought today.

It seems that my perception of the "Games as Art" discussion is perpetually shoved around by the myriad, yet very limited ways people often choose to approach the subject. Sometimes it all seems silly to me, yet on other occasions I can't help but definitively cry, "Yes, yes why wouldn't they be art?!" 
 
I've realized that the problem lies in my unwavering respect for other people's opinions. In certain instances, the perspective of a particularly smooth-talking games journalist might make a convincing case for an honest dismissal of the very POSSIBILITY that a video game (video game!) could stand up against the best that classic art has to offer. On other days, it is the collective view of the huddled masses that achieves the spotlight, with their inability to add up to such a flat reality as "no." Furthermore, my innermost conflict occurs when I play a game that I know is brilliantly designed and powerful but lack the emotional response that even I would expect from myself. 
 
However this issue isn't about me. It isn't born from video games either. It's about art. Yet all too often the range of the argument reaches no further than a competition between the very best video games and their popular WE'RE-SO-MUCH-BETTER-THAN-YOU counterparts of history's widely recognized art movements. Why? What has infected the air to trigger such a unanimous belief that only the best art IS art? What if we compared Braid to a Jackson Pollock painting, or Flower to a movie like not-Inception? That last sentence is supposed to be offensive by the way, but I have a point to make. In the case of Jackson Pollock, I remember many of my art high school friends speaking out about how much they resent the relationship between the messiness of his paintings and how much money people were willing to spend on them. Also, just try to imagine a world where Inception was the first movie that movie critics considered great.
 
Isn't that what some games journalists claim to be waiting for? That first game that they can consider art? I won't speak for you, but I can't even begin to imagine what a game like that would look like... or sound like... or... TASTE like? Regardless, I'm not even sure that's exactly what the deniers are looking for at all. I guess I just wish they would reveal what they think about other, more controversial circles of the art world.

It seems that my perception of the "Games as Art" discussion is perpetually shoved around by the myriad, yet very limited ways people often choose to approach the subject. Sometimes it all seems silly to me, yet on other occasions I can't help but definitively cry, "Yes, yes why wouldn't they be art?!" 
 
I've realized that the problem lies in my unwavering respect for other people's opinions. In certain instances, the perspective of a particularly smooth-talking games journalist might make a convincing case for an honest dismissal of the very POSSIBILITY that a video game (video game!) could stand up against the best that classic art has to offer. On other days, it is the collective view of the huddled masses that achieves the spotlight, with their inability to add up to such a flat reality as "no." Furthermore, my innermost conflict occurs when I play a game that I know is brilliantly designed and powerful but lack the emotional response that even I would expect from myself. 
 
However this issue isn't about me. It isn't born from video games either. It's about art. Yet all too often the range of the argument reaches no further than a competition between the very best video games and their popular WE'RE-SO-MUCH-BETTER-THAN-YOU counterparts of history's widely recognized art movements. Why? What has infected the air to trigger such a unanimous belief that only the best art IS art? What if we compared Braid to a Jackson Pollock painting, or Flower to a movie like not-Inception? That last sentence is supposed to be offensive by the way, but I have a point to make. In the case of Jackson Pollock, I remember many of my art high school friends speaking out about how much they resent the relationship between the messiness of his paintings and how much money people were willing to spend on them. Also, just try to imagine a world where Inception was the first movie that movie critics considered great.
 
Isn't that what some games journalists claim to be waiting for? That first game that they can consider art? I won't speak for you, but I can't even begin to imagine what a game like that would look like... or sound like... or... TASTE like? Regardless, I'm not even sure that's exactly what the deniers are looking for at all. I guess I just wish they would reveal what they think about other, more controversial circles of the art world.

To me, it doesn't matter if video games can be technically defined as art. What's important are the influences that the video game has on either my thoughts or perspective of reality. Just as an interesting piece of classical art can make you think and better understand something, so can a video game. I know this, because video games have had that influence on me in the past.

Oh geez, stop. You guys, we've had this discussion a thousand times already.
This is the Groundhog Day moment for me, right here.

This topic has the best title ever.  
 
I'm not even going to read it, that would just ruin it.

I think I understand what you're trying to say.
 
 
I agree.

" This topic has the best title ever.   I'm not even going to read it, that would just ruin it. "

" @LordXavierBritish said:

" This topic has the best title ever.   I'm not even going to read it, that would just ruin it. "

Yes, we should simply discuss the topic title itself. I mean, what could be more interesting than that? I doubt the contents of the topic come close to the title. "

Art is simply a product of human creativity. Games are created by human therefore Games are art. In no world  can Inception be the first great film as movies are evolved creations that borrow from numerous sources of inspiration. The meaning of great art is purely subjective. I do not like Shakespeare's The Tempest and find no value in a Pollock though a great many people do. Art is a human creation and whether you like it or don't like it has no impact on its definition. also, defining games as art has no impact on games and this topic is irrelevant.  

games have artistic characteristics in them. as a whole they would not be considered art such as da vinci league. while there is lots of artistic components to games it cant be considered art.

" @LordXavierBritish said:

" This topic has the best title ever.   I'm not even going to read it, that would just ruin it. "

Yes, we should simply discuss the topic title itself. I mean, what could be more interesting than that? I doubt the contents of the topic come close to the title. "

I think they are indeed a form of art.  People put their heart and souls into games to create them and make them look EXACTLY a certain way.  They spend months trying to get it to feel just right so when you play, you immerse yourself into it in such a way that you forget for a time that you are in reality sitting in a chair at home.  it's the same as a gallery piece at the Smithsonian.  I walk up, and see the amazing seascape of a ocean-going battle of Spanish and British warships, and am able to almost feel the spray, and smell the gunpowder, blood, and saltwater.   yes, games are not SOLELY art, such as said painting.  But whether intentional or accidental, they are indeed a form of artistic expression that merges with a wonderful type of interactive stimulus.

" Oh geez, stop. You guys, we've had this discussion a thousand times already. This is the Groundhog Day moment for me, right here. "

I don't care what other people say because I know my opinions are right and everyone else are wrong. So why waste my time debating it with people?

"  From Wikipedia:
 "Art is the process or product of deliberately arranging elements in a way to affect the senses or emotions. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression..."  Video games affect senses or emotions. I think video games are just as artistic as movies. "

Stop doing that, thinking. It's just evil and hurts ur brains.