I'm getting tired of GB's dismissive attitude towards the new consoles

I've found the gb take on the new consoles refreshingly grounded, and not caught up in undeserved hype like everywhere else.

Same as always.

Aren't they dismissive against most things these days. Whenever a new big game gets released they usually clank down on it. They skew negative on most topics I think so it doesn't surprise me that they don't like the new consoles.

No one cares about new consoles when cloud gaming will take over soon. See the Luna launch. Most hardcore gamers just play on PC anyways. This could be the last console generation.

You did make a TLDR kind of thread about your discontent with someone else's opinion. The fact that you did that shows you care a bit too much for what they think when it doesn't really matter. If you're excited about the next-gen consoles, why does the staff's view of them bother you? Be excited for them and don't let someone else's opinion on it ruin your day. You can always find someone that shares the same excitement, so when it comes to this, just go somewhere else.

@ntm: Seems more like a thread asking for more varied opinions instead of a thread voicing discontent about the opinions themselves.

It doesn’t come off that the OP is bothered or looking for validation in their excitement.

If you're going to make an edit (OP) maybe rename the thread to something less hostile sounding? Like "In defence of next gen" or something like that? Just a suggestion. I agree with your points by the way.

EDIT: I see you already made an edit, I glossed over it, sorry.

There's a couple dozen posters in this thread. I say we each pick a couple of Bombcasts, starting from the beginning of 2013 to the launch of the PS4 and Xbox One. We listen to them, making notes of anything that doesn't amount to glowing praise and reasons that the general audience should buy a system at launch. We'll meet back in this thread in a week and compare notes.

I, for one, suspect we will hear many of the same arguments regarding those consoles that we are hearing about these ones.

@bladeofcreation: I went back recently to listen to the Bombcasts that came out around the PS4/Xbox One launch and while I wouldn't say they were head over heels for them but they were generally more positive than I expected, especially on the Xbox One.

Granted these were episodes recorded after they had extensive hands-on time with the consoles and I would imagine the tone starts to lighten up once they're able to put these new machines through the proper paces.

@bladeofcreation: I'm already taking notes.

Clearly, the bit in 2013 where they pointed out there weren't great launch games showed they were too dismissive to the PS4. I've sent Rorie my formal complaint.

@mastaofminds: Console gaming is huge and is still growing, and streaming/cloud services will very much tie into the console market as we can see with game pass and Microsofts cheaper family friendly solution.

At no point is console gaming going away or even looking like it might.

The new consoles are thus far boring and people should rightly be bored by them.

The thing that's been driving me nuts for the last few months, and this isn't limited to Giant Bomb, is the idea that getting a 3080 is somehow a reasonable alternative to a new console. I hear it mentioned all the time. "oh, well the new 30 series card will be out, so you could just get that instead". I'm all for PC gaming, I have a decent gaming pc, and a One X and a Switch and a PS4 (I'm broken, I know).

But in Canada, the cheapest 3080 I could find is about 1000$, even a 2070 super is still around 800$. And dropping a 3080 in a mid level pc isn't going to get you PS5/Series X levels of performance. You need a motherboard, processor, ram, storage and power supply at near the same levels to not just get bottlenecked to death. The Canadian price for the Series X is $599. That's a lot of bang for the buck.

I'm not against anyone mentioning PC gaming. I love PC gaming. It's just easy to lose sight of the economic realities of a decision if your job is supplying you with hardware. I get that Giant Bomb is an enthusiast site, so we have more people who know their way around PC gaming. I'm one of them. But even for someone like me, upgrading to a current high spec PC is not something I would think of as an equal alternative to a new console purchase. The investment is just so much higher.

@clayton_bomb: Long time primarily PC player here, finally got around to building my own PC a few years ago, spend probably 75% or more of my gaming time on PC. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's such a ridiculous argument. And the thing is, the people they're saying this to are the ones who don't already have a PC to start with, so it becomes even more expensive.

@bladeofcreation: @clayton_bomb: A lot of that boils down to "wait a few months" and do it next year.

3080 prices and availability will stabilize by then (if there is still a world by then...) and 3070s should be pretty available to and of comparable goodness.

Let's say you can get a GPU, cpu, and mobo for 1k. That is the price of two consoles worth of refresh SKUs. It will blow consoles out of the water now and are likely to still be very competitive come refresh SKU time so you probably break even (if not come out ahead if you use the PC for anything other than gaming)

But also, if you are even slightly patient and/or go the 3070 route, you're looking at a 600-800 dollar build (again, probably less if you shop sales) which is an even better deal. And if you can wait until the 3180 is announced the prices go down even more for a 3080/3070

The issue with a lot of these "dollar for dollar' comparisons is that they base things off of PC builds at their most expensive. Speaking as someone who is PROBABLY doing a build late this year/early next year, you are an idiot if you build this year. Wait until next year when prices go down a lot.

Hours of constant dismissive agreement isn’t an interesting discussion.

This sums up my thoughts about most GB content these days..

I agree that any conversation would be more interesting if you had people all give a very different take on an issue. Each person could state their reasons for why they end up making a different choice than the other people in the conversation and they could all question eachother what the key factors are that led them there. The audience could then take that all in account and develop a more nuanced view. Especially in a situation like this, where there are no truly 'awful' choices to make.

But for a show with the same people on it, you're just not always going to get that. Unlike a TV-talkshow where the host will generally attempt to find people with a variety of opinions to meet eachother and discuss the issue in front of the camera. With a podcast like the Bombcast (or Hotspot), you get 5-ish perspectives of people that are all in quite similar boats. People that are interested in tech, live in big cities, grew up with computers, use them for many tasks every day and have disposable income for their gaming needs. So yeah, from that viewpoint it's going to be hard to get excited about the idea that you can now buy a console for 25$ a month. While for a 13 yo kid it might be a huge gamechanger that finally lets them buy a new console at launch. Some might look at a Demon Souls remake and mostly shrug at it, while someone else might get their best gaming experience ever from it.

These kind of threads always make me wonder about the reach these podcasts have. Like this thread was written in response to the hotspot i think? A podcast behind a premium sub where only the people that are super invested in GB and the gaming industry have access to. Do prem subscribers require these guys to sum up all the pro's & cons of the various options available, when they probably have been following the new console launch a fair amount already? Even if the crew don't necessarily care about certain pro's and cons themselves? Just to have it on record and provide a service to the audience?

Should it be done that way on the bombcast because it reaches a wider audience than the Hotspot? Or should they stick to their own opinions? Is there a significant contingent of people that make their purchase decisions based on the podcast chatter instead of figuring out the pro's & cons themselves once they actually decide to make a choice? Naturally their opinions have influence. But if you straight up don't have the money for a PC and don't care about a lackluster launchwindow because you are going to dip into BC-titles at that point anyways, you're in a completely different situation than these guys already.

@clayton_bomb: The thing that is really strange for me, is the general enthusiasm around getting a $500-700 GPU that you see on Giant Bomb among other places, but when talking about new consoles then there is suddenly no reason to buy one, and it’s best to wait.

It gets even more bizarre when the reason to wait is cited as lack of exclusives. Upgrading your old GPU to a 3080 doesn’t give you access to exclusives either, but there still seems to be plenty of reasons to do that.

And I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy a new graphics card. I just feel like the arguments should work both ways. But for some reason consoles are put through a much higher, arbitrary strandard, even though the reasons to get either can be very much the same.

@gundato I'm not knocking PC gaming :) I've been PC gaming since the days of boot discs :)

I personally tend toward the xx70 cards myself. I had a 970, now have a 1070, will certainly get a 3070 when the price goes down. For me personally, I'll probably be able to get a 3070 in the 600/650$Can range. And I already have a PC that could take advantage, including a 1tb nvme games drive. A little more than a new console, but I earn $$ with my pc, so I can easily justify :)

The thing that I have found frustrating, with some of the GB crew and other podcasters/youtubers, is equating the purchase of a 1000$Can video card (the 3080) that needs around $800 more hardware to go around it (*noted below*), with a $600Can console. Every time I hear it, I just want someone to speak up and mention that it's a hell of a lot more money. Great, but a lot more money.

All that being said, don't let me discourage anyone away from PC gaming. It's awesome. Steam sales and Humble Bundles rule. But, who knows what the performance of the 3070 will be. Who knows what AMD has up their sleeve. Jeff B is right about one thing, if possible, waiting is the best option. If the world survives, after the new year is a great time to upgrade :)

*Rough estimate parts list" Can $$ - very midrange

Case $100

MB $150

Processor $250

Ram (16gig) $70

Power Supply $100

Storage (1tb M2) $120

Don't forget keyboard, mouse, controller, speakers/headphones and monitor.... ;)

You can get a full gaming PC for about 1k that will last a long time. You can make a ton of games on that machine and with the perks of PC you can always tweak settings to make it look better but at a lower FR and worse for a higher FR.

At most you can upgrade the gpu here and there over the years but you by no means HAVE to.

A good and well built PC can and does last longer than a console generation or two.

Generally the ones bemoaning the "corrupt, insider practices" of actual news/enthusiast sites (usually in front of their massive set of premium statues they were sent for free from publishers) are gonna be your BEST bet for hype.

It's actually kind of weird how many people in this very thread seem to think "enthusiast site" means "enthusiastic about everything."

@clayton_bomb: I understand what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree. But here is the thing. Most PC gamers already have that stuff. For instance, all I need to do to have a system that well outperforms either of these consoles is to buy a 3080. That's it, nothing else. That's a difference in cost of $200 (for me in the US), not insignificant, but worth it to me.

If you are going to lump in the cost of every component you need for a PC, you also have to consider that to make full use of one of these new consoles you need a 4K HDR TV, a receiver, surround sound speakers, controllers, something to put all that shit on, blah, blah blah.

I assume that Bakalar is talking to people like me when he is saying "just buy a 3080", not people that would need to build a PC from the ground up.

@obikwiet Good points. And I totally fall into the "just get the new card and you're good" camp. I guess, usually when I hear it brought up, it's in the context of console gaming. I take it from the perspective that if you are primarily a console gamer, a 3080 is not a particularly reasonable alternative, at least as far as price.

But hey, even a console gamer is unlikely to have gear good enough to take full advantage of the new consoles, 4K 120htz tv's and receivers that can handle that bandwidth are expensive ( if Sony and Microsoft's claims turn out to be accurate ).

Honestly, for a lot of people, the Xbox Series S seems like a good buy. With a decent 1080p tv and a sound bar, you'd probably be fine for a while.

I'm just glad that it seems like this new generation is at least giving PCs a run for the money out of the gate. The PS4 and Xbox One didn't really manage that. Fun times :)

@clayton_bomb: I suppose the issue I have with “just get a 3080” is it’s a nothing statement. If you’re a PC player, and are happy with the platform, then by all means upgrade. Are PC players really considering switching to consoles in droves? Why does “get a 3080” need to even be said, aside from the context of “which nvidia card should I get”.

And it’s even more useless advice for console players for the reasons listed upthread. So why even say it? To affect that tiny sliver of people that jump between PC and console each generation? I figure they’re probably far less than crazies like me who buy all platforms, and we need the least convincing. I dunno, it just comes off to be as a needlessly aggressive, pointless statement in the context of new console discussion.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they are in the US during a time where the pandemic continues to disrupt every day actives and fires are devastating the western states. I will say that as someone who lives in New York, things just kinda suck right now and it can be hard get excited about things.

Speaking about the consoles though, I think they are cautious to voice any sort of excitement because we largely don't know what these new boxes will bring in terms of the user experience. I see their main concern being storage space with these fast proprietary drives. If you subtract space for formatting and, all version of both boxes will ship with less than 1TB of usable storage space. Not a lot to work with. As an example I am looking at the Hitman 2 install right now and with all of the DLC it is sitting on my system at 152 GB. If I want to buy Hitman 3 which IO has already said will include all of Hitman 1&2's content if either own the prior games or purchase whatever ultimate edition there will be. If you install everything, the Hitman 3 directory size will likely be anywhere from 200-250 GB. That could eat 1/4 of your storage space out of the gate... It is also very likely that Hitman 3 will have a few DLC maps. As a Hitman fan I would not look forward to having a single install potentially use 1/3 of storage space when all is said and done and not have simple expansion option. I know this applies to me because I have had Hitman on PS4 since it's release in 2016 and would plan to do the same with Hitman 3. as a side not, I am such a lunatic I did the same thing with the PC version as well. I am going to wait this thing out until we know more about how the storage actually functions. I am not jazzed about having to pay so much for storage space. I am hoping that you can supplement this by moving things an and off of other USB drives when not in use. If that is already the case then great but I have yet to hear anyone give a clear answer on this. I think it is that kinda stuff that makes them say, "I dunno, just build a PC". The PC landscape is pretty safe territory right now if you have the means.

PCIe 4.0 SSDs are legitimately impressive at a time when only a couple of AMD PC chipsets have that tech, and Intel doesn't offer it at all.

In every other area PC is ahead as usual.

I am really curious to see the install sizes of games on the new consoles. There has been talk that there are a lot of gains to be made by not having to duplicate data for efficient reads from a spinning platter. But we haven't seen it in practice yet. A little less than 1TB doesn't seem like much. I have the new flight simulator installed and it is 125gigs, and that's vanilla, no addons. Red Dead 2 was over 100 gigs. Doesn't take many games to hit the limit.

@navster15:People talk about the new GPU as a 3rd option, because both consoles don't do much to set themselves apart from a PC and are both openly flirting with releasing their games on it. Well Xbox is naturally past the flirting stage already. If you're looking to spend money on a game machine, why not mention the PC as a possible solution when it plays most of the games that will be released in the coming years?

A PC is quite a heavy initial investment for sure, and not everyone is willing or able to do that, but it's at least worth considering just as much as people should consider whether paying 25$ a month is an interesting option. To a 12-yo that might be the first console that is affordable for them to get, while the payment plan might be a complete non-factor to an employed electrician that has the means to spend a decent amount on a game system. Pointing out that this 3rd option exist to play upcoming games shouldn't be seen as pointless or aggressive i think. People can look at their own position and decide what fits their wallet and /or lifestyle the best. Hell, some people might look at all this hardware that could be purchased and play all their games through some company's cloud instead, when that's do-able with their internet provider. A truly digital console.

Personally, I think that people are less bound to a PC or a console than you'd think. Especially as they grow up and their living conditions change. Will you move out of your parents home? Do you have disposable income? Do you have use for a PC outside gaming? Do you end up sitting at a desk for work? Do you end up with a very small apartment? Does your partner enjoy watching & playing games with you? It all factors in.

To illustrate, As a teen we had a underpowered PC in the living-room but i had a TV in my room. so naturally i saved up for a console to make my own lil gaming corner. I could've probably upgraded the PC with a new GPU, but i wanted to be able to play games by myself in my room and have access to all these Japanese games Sony was a portal to. After that generation, i became a PC gamer because Steam revitalized the platform and it had a humongous library and amazing sale prices. I never decided to be part of a partisan gaming movement or have talking heads push me in one direction or the other. My situation just changed over the years, like every life does over time.

For the right price and the right setting, i have no qualms of moving back to a console. Especially if i end up with a bunch of Xbox games by buying them on PC, i can see how i eventually end up with a console like that so i can lay down on the sofa and play games on a TV instead of sitting at my desk. I also look at my sister who moved from the Wii U to a PC to play Minecraft on and then suddenly decides to buy a PS4 on the side and play both equally. People just want to play the best games and the PC will have many of them. That's why it's not pointless to bring it up.

I can afford it but paying so much money for a GPU such as the 3080 is just outlandish to me, and I was a PC player för 15 years before getting tired of all the tinkering and debugging and going all in on consoles. I've usually paid that amount total for a new rig.

I feel like people are filling in blanks on their own. I haven't heard them saying that other people should buy a 3080 or a whole PC instead of a console. They're speaking from their own experience, which is already owning a PC. It's two separate statements: There isn't much reason to get a console at launch if you care about games exclusive to the new generation. Picking between which several-hundred dollar toy to buy right now, a graphics card upgrade might have more value to a couple of them.

They aren't telling people not to buy a console because PC's exist. People mistake someone else's preference for one thing as bashing another. I think it's good to cut through the hype and the BS and make people take a step back and really think about their purchases. Something that isn't done enough, evident by the number of people that are uncomfortable being told it might be a good idea to wait. The same problem on PC. People that were happy with their setup on August 31st think that it's suddenly bad on Sept 1st when an upgrade is announced.

If you already have a current gen console, I share the staff's views that it's hard to understand the appeal of rushing toward the new console (or video card) at launch. If it's a simple "I just want it", that's totally fine, but you can't act surprised that other people don't see the value. I'm interested because I don't currently have a console, so there's a lot PS exclusives I missed that I can enjoy despite the weak launch lineups.

I prefer coverage that is more critical. Anyone can read you a spec sheet and tell you everything is objectively better about the new stuff, and it's much easier to sell excitement. There are a lot of complaints about GB being jaded or "negative", but that's the appeal for me. I want to know what someone's that been around the block a few times thinks. Excited people have little of value to add to the conversation. I already know what's cool about it, but what are the concerns of someone with enough experience to be "jaded"? They respect their audience enough to say "hey, think about why you want this", and we need more of that as preview coverage leans more and more toward influencers/streamers/youtubers that are just excited to get access.

deathfromace said:

The last two console generations have lasted 7 years. Are you telling me your gaming PC can keep playing the newest AAA games on decent settings for 8-15 years without needing any upgrades? Gonna have to call bullshit on that.

Did a quick test and the minimum requirements for a graphics heavy 2020 game like Doom Eternal are all GPUs that weren’t even released in 2012. You can probably get it to run on something like an AMD Radeon 7970, a $550 card from december 2011, that I see recommenced a bunch in building a gaming PC articles from 2012. But it is weaker than minimum specs, so you are not going to have a good time.

Until they get hands-on I'm pretty happy to not hear a ton of hype from them. Though actually I feel like I've heard more than once on podcasts mentions of how the tech in the consoles is impressive on paper.

@purpleurkel: I'm seeing it as the same. It may not be for validation, but he's bothered by their opinion on it, which is clear. I don't want to keep going on this, but rhetorically, why show dissatisfaction on such a subject? Does it matter that much how the crew feels about it to be 'tired' of their view on it enough so that it needs to be written down? It has or shouldn't have any effect on how he goes about things, like buying a new system.

What is the point and the end goal of the thread? Is it to have Giant Bomb see it and go 'Yeah... Yes, that guy is right and I will be more thoughtful about this next time we talk.' Sorry, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. They will come to their own conclusion on this.

Anyways, I'm sure I'm coming off as an asshole about it so I'm off. I wasn't here to be mean or get into any sort of argument, it's just that I can't imagine myself writing out a whole post solely on the subject of my discontent with someone else's opinion on this subject, which is what I'm seeing this as. Isn't there some way to write directly to the crew and simply ask them about it and delve into the discussion that way?

Part of the reason why I love Giant Bomb is because they're a bunch of old men grumbling about video games. They're veterans who've been through several console generations--none of this is new to them. They're way past the stage of being jazzed about working in games media, so they don't let hype filter through their opinions like Youtube personalities tend to do. They see how this shit works, so they're cynical about a lot of stuff that goes on in the game industry. But i think that leads to more honest discussions than just talking about how awesome everything is.

Also: HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THE STATE OF THIS WORLD?

Level-headedness born of experience is a tradable asset.

@ntm: Hey dude, no offense was taken and you did not come off negative in anyway. I totally understand where you're coming from.

I would agree that sending an email with specific questions/topics that would steer conversation would have probably been a better route for the OP to go. I don't know if they had an end goal other than getting the discussion going.

It seems kind of unreasonable to be frustrated with other people for not being excited about something. It doesn't mean you can't be. I wouldn't want them to feign excitement that they aren't actually feeling. They make purchasing recommendations that you're free to ignore. In fact, I'm pretty certain that at least Jeff and probably Brad would both be ignoring their own recommendations even if they weren't in the industry, because they are enthusiasts who view the meta conversation as an interest.

Personally, I have a PC with a 2080 and I'll still be buying at launch. I'm super excited even if others aren't.