Is it finally time for shorter videos?

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saddlebrown

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The reaction to the WarioWare QL being a repurposed clip from UPF was pretty negative, which is just as understandable as the counter that the guys are understaffed and overworked so cut them some slack. Now, I know everybody always goes into a frothing rage anytime someone suggests this, but maybe the solution here is... shorter videos.

I've been a fan since GameSpot and watching the length balloon outward over the last decade has driven me away. The videos aren't better because they're longer; they're worse. There's way more dead air, they have less to say, and it's just boring. On top of that, it means the guys have to do way more work: not just in terms of editing, rendering, uploading, etc, but in coming up with stuff to say. This was a pre-pandemic problem too, but it's only gotten worse since.

But everybody always wants everything to be longer even though it makes the content worse, puts more of a strain on the staff, and makes shit unwatchable for anyone that can't (or simply doesn't want to) block 2+ hours every time they want to watch GB. Can we finally have a real conversation about this? Every time I've suggested this over the years people always say "well you don't have to watch the whole video" which fails to address any of the issues at all and only pushes away more people.

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yabbering_yeti

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#2  Edited By yabbering_yeti

You do mention that you want to have a conversation about it, but It's going to be hard to connect with people who share your frustrations when you don't lay out a realistic view of things. I feel like you might get the conversation you want if you lose a lot of the hyperbole, otherwise this conversation will likely be around correcting the exaggeration. Condescension not intentional ;)

So yeah, I can't agree that things are getting longer and longer because it's just not the case. Things have been longer in the past. Also, I can watch almost every video they put out in well under 2 hours, because it's rare for something to be that long. I also can't agree that longer ='s worse, it's a case-by-case thing.

But is it time for shorter videos? Shorter QL's for sure, but that's been a kinda needed thing for a while (debatable). I think the new shows are the right length, they don't feel padded or over-stay their welcome to me in general (and still not 2+ hrs long :P).

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Nodima

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#3  Edited By Nodima

I don't really have a contribution to this specific conversation other than to go on this long tangent first about how UPF's appeal for me was always this sense of reliving my childhood as a bunch of friends getting together in the basement to play video games and crack jokes for a few hours. The hook, to my mind, was that this meant the show could go off the rails on a weird tangent for as long as a half hour under the right circumstances, or that one guy would be trying to show off a game he thought was really cool only for the rest of the group to be too distracted by their snacks and conversations about their favorite new TV shows to pay any attention.

At some point in the past three years or so it had already become much more of a "here's a new game we're not going to cover on its own, but this show is a place we can plug it in" or an extension of Old Games Show once the Mister came into their hands, but the basic streamer nature of the pandemic completely eradicated whatever was left of the old let's hang out, drink some beers and get goofy while playing a game or two vibe of the early days in favor of the sterile, around the horn type show it is now. I bowed out of being an every episode watcher midway through last year, especially when there was still such an overwhelming amount of other streaming content it was just impossible to decide what to watch (didn't help that I find Minecraft, Astroneer and Sea of Thieves to be...whatever. I'd always rather watch games with stories and linear progression, or at least Civ VI I guess) and arguably video length was much more of an issue then.

But now I click the VOD Sunday morning, look over the list of games being played, maybe scan the subreddit and comments section to see if anything particularly interesting happened, then often decide I'll just wait and see what the next Best Of video will decide to highlight instead. And I often feel a little silly when I do that because I know the jokey banter is still in there, it just hits different without the guys shooting each other glances from across the room or doing weird physical comedy to emphasize something that just doesn't play over video conference. So these videos being extracted as Quick Looks, while perhaps coming off a bit "lazy" in comparison to past instances when a game would show up on UPF because the gang was excited about it and seemed to want both a casual look early on and a more guided look later, does line up more with my current GB viewing habits and as such I find myself appreciating it as I don't have to scrub through all the stuff I'm disinterested in to find the content I'm looking for.

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eccentrix

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I don't get bored and I'm here to watch people play games. Longer videos = more time playing games = better. Even when I don't have time to watch a 2 hour video, I don't wish half the video didn't exist, I just watch it over two or more sessions.

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#5  Edited By BisonHero
@nodima said:

At some point in the past three years or so [UPF] had already become much more of a "here's a new game we're not going to cover on its own, but this show is a place we can plug it in" or an extension of Old Games Show once the Mister came into their hands, but the basic streamer nature of the pandemic completely eradicated whatever was left of the old let's hang out, drink some beers and get goofy while playing a game or two vibe of the early days in favor of the sterile, around the horn type show it is now.

This is my general issue with UPF as well. I kinda preferred it to be its own thing that doesn't overlap with other video series, so I don't really care for how many stealth-Quick-Looks are in UPF that they just don't want to cover as a proper Quick Look, and also there really has been a lot of random Mister as Jeff's segment over the last few years, despite there already being tons of premium video series or random one-off streams of old games.

I'd guess that the "everybody just hang out and wing it, drink beers, etc." on UPF has always been a bit of a facade because the show is still a production that requires at least a little bit of segment planning and testing whether the games they want to feature will capture/stream without issue. Or alternately, it's like they're trying to continue the vibe of the Whiskey Media Happy Hour, which is maybe a bit forced if their office culture has changed since the Whiskey Media days. I appreciated when site engineer/business people would contribute, but it seems like the days of Dave Snider/Alexis/Business Dave strolling onto a UPF are behind us.

Anyway, if UPF is a lot of production effort to have to do at the end of the day on Friday, then by all means, rethink it. They could cut it down 60 minutes or something. I'd rather they start doing that, instead of filling out the time with games coverage of recent releases that they just aren't ever Quick Looking for some reason. Especially when the vibe of UPF is often "somebody playing a game while 1 or more people are not paying attention in the slightest and just talking off on a tangent about something else", it's not a great environment for Quick Looks, because either everyone is getting super attentive during just the part that is going to get spun out into a Quick Look (which makes for a tonally weird UPF), or they don't and it's a really distracted Quick Look (which makes for a tonally weird Quick Look).

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Humanity

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#6  Edited By Humanity

Are we talking about Quick Looks here or everything? Because the only things that the GB staff produce at this moment are Quick Looks, the podcast and UPF. Two of those by their very nature can't be trimmed down, so that leaves Quick Looks. In which case, I dunno one Quick Look per week thats 45 minutes seems very par for the course these days. I guess they could scale it down to a tight 25 minutes if they wanted to but since these QL's are so sporadic and lately just cut straight from UPF that I don't know how making them shorter would help anything.

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I sort of agree with OP. I've always preferred my quick looks to be short, concise opinions from a little further into the game so that I can get a sense of if I think the game is worth getting through the tutorial for. So I find a shorter, concise quick look is better than a quick look that is an hour+ and just kind of goes through the tutorial/prologue (the thing I tend to find least interesting in every game I play).

But I know this has gotten harder over the years as a lot of modern games get rid of a hard save (or multiple save slots), so the staff just kind of has to use the save they have. And if where they are at doesn't have "the good stuff" it makes sense that they keep playing in order to show everything they wanted to show off.

I don't mind reusing UPF segments for QLs if it includes the staffs opinions on the game. The Warioware one is weird because I enjoyed the banter from that segment, but Jeff was still really early on and didn't seem to have that many opinions on what he was playing yet. But it's also just WarioWare...so I get that you don't need to show any "late game" stuff because it never REALLY changes.

I know this is a bit of a ramble but the tl;dr is yes I would prefer shorter quick looks but keep the premium live shows long.

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Kyary

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I didn't even realize the QL was reused from UPF, and honestly I think that's fine if they just indicate it in the title/description for the people that watch both.

And yeah, personally a 20-30 minute QL is about my limit unless it's a real banger. It's nice that they're doing more of them again, though!

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I think repurposing UPF segments for certain Quick Looks is a smart solution tbh. Ultimately I want to see some gameplay and hear the Duders opinions so I like it and hope they do this more.

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Humanity

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@kashrz said:

I think repurposing UPF segments for certain Quick Looks is a smart solution tbh. Ultimately I want to see some gameplay and hear the Duders opinions so I like it and hope they do this more.

It's smart, but also it takes away from UPF. Let me say up front that I have Premium bought out for like a year or two in advance so it's not that big an issue for me, but UPF is a premium show. If suddenly large chunks of the premium show are getting repurposed for Quick Looks then that takes away from the value proposition.

Once again to reiterate - this isn't a huge issue for me personally. I honestly have not enjoyed or watched UPF live in years and only skim the archive the next day. That said, on paper it's kind of a bad look if your premium content is getting repackaged for free viewing.

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The length isn't the problem for me, because its a game by game basis for how long a quick looks should be. About 30 mins for a simpler game and 60 mins for a bigger game is a good look at most of the mechanics of a game. Anything longer tends to be the duders just having fun and being entertaining, which is not what a quick look should be about, but if its funny and entertaining o well. Jeff has had a tendency in lockdown to just boot up a game for an hour+ doing a "quick look" while not really talking about the game to much, just playing and interacting with the chat, which is not really a quick look. Its more that in the past it seemed like quick looks where more prepared and thought out before taping. It looked like they already played though most if not all of the game already, had multiple saves at points of a game that where good at showing off the game, and you had someone else asking questions.

Now it feels much more like they wing it. And sometimes just jump in not knowing anything about the game, which i find bad because with a quick look im looking for someone to tell me about the game, not discover along with them in a lets play or something. I also think UPF has kind of ruined quick looks a little bit. Because they kind of show off the game to all the crew and then if they have someone there asking questions they tend not to ask the right questions, because they already know from being on UPF. And mechanics get a little glossed over, because they probably showed them off more in depth in UPF.

The only thing i think that would help quick looks is probably putting more time and effort into them behind the scenes, but the length has been fine for the most part.

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Efesell

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#12  Edited By Efesell
@lego_my_eggo said:

Its more that in the past it seemed like quick looks where more prepared and thought out before taping.

Yo at what point in the entire history of the site though?

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@humanity: I’m happy we’re getting some Quick Looks again but yeah thats a totally fair criticism regarding the value proposition tbf.

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#14  Edited By styx971

i don't love the repurposing and frankly would rather QLs be there own thing and leave upf to the more ..obscure.. games? that said if they truely can't make time to actually make QLs and have a sensible bit of footage to use then thats at least good for users who don't always want to weed through upf for things they're interested in since we don't have timestamps, or free users who don't have access to it. that said for those who do watch it it does also create some redundancy too which isn't good either. still at least its something i guess, specially with them still being understaffed, hopefully they'll get some new blood in sooner than later.

as to the length of them, i think it really depends on the game how long it should be , alot of games you know after 15 mins and plenty of times it can take a hour. i do prefer shorter things for a 'Quick' look at something but if its a bigger rpg of some fashion i mean i can't see them being short too. still i'm all for shorter quick looks if thats easier , or videos in general honestly.

all that said i'll be frank in saying i miss long form video series on this site when it comes to games . danny's borne to run was helping fill in that gap for a while there but with his vacation home its been 5 weeks for one of those , sure we had the guilty treasures week early and then the slightly hard to watch but still cool nba jam machine video but its been 2 weeks since. vacations are important tho , and this is a side thing for him also so i honestly get it. but at the same time the site isn't filling that gap in on its own anymore either. i'll say again i understand them being short staffed but when those are part of the main reasons you come to a site its frankly a bit of a letdown. i hope it changes in the future but only time will tell.

edit: n just to clarify when i say long form video i mean actual video not a live stream like upf . thosse are great for some ppl but pre-recorded stuff has a totally different vibe.

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styx971

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#15  Edited By styx971
@efesell said:
@lego_my_eggo said:

Its more that in the past it seemed like quick looks where more prepared and thought out before taping.

Yo at what point in the entire history of the site though?

i mean there are Tons of examples of it looking more prepared so i can't honestly see how this is a real question? i guess maybe you could have possibly skipped over alot of those if the games wasn't in your interests , since i certainly don't watch Every QL. but plenty of times someone on staff would play X amount first and like mentioned plan to use a save at X point in the game and show off both the early areas and some later areas. that in itself is planning and being thought out more than just firing up a game for the first time. its also why single person QLs i think don't do it for allot of ppl cause the 2nd person usually goes in at least somewhat blind and asking questions which in itself can be a plan depending on context. not having that second person bouncing off the first leaves alot of the aspects you look for just missing. i honestly always seen QLs as more of an impressions video in the guise of a replacement for reviews where they're still analytical in a manner but not so dry at the same time like actual 'video reviews'.

@bisonhero said

"Anyway, if UPF is a lot of production effort to have to do at the end of the day on Friday, then by all means, rethink it. They could cut it down 60 minutes or something. I'd rather they start doing that, instead of filling out the time with games coverage of recent releases that they just aren't ever Quick Looking for some reason. Especially when the vibe of UPF is often "somebody playing a game while 1 or more people are not paying attention in the slightest and just talking off on a tangent about something else", it's not a great environment for Quick Looks, because either everyone is gettingsuper attentiveduring just the part that is going to get spun out into a Quick Look (which makes for a tonally weird UPF), or they don't and it's a really distracted Quick Look (which makes for a tonally weird Quick Look)."

and i can't help but agree with both of those things and thats without mentioning the value of upf as a premium like @humanity mentioned

and yes all this is after my original post cause i read OP comment n then scroll ,...just to be clear..

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Efesell

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#16  Edited By Efesell

@styx971: My point is that quick looks are ramshackle affairs by design. To get away from very scripted looking video game previews by way of just some dudes booting up the game and talking over it.

Everyone had their own preferred way of presenting games sure and some were more structured than others but to suggest that they're not planned out enough anymore is very silly.

All of that aside I'm still on the side of it feels weird to use one show to prepare content for another different show.

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@efesell: Its an anecdotal opinion. I don't really have any good examples of "this is how you do a quick look" other then there being times when they where obviously more informed about the game going in then others. Just times when they will toss in there opinion about the story of the game they have played so far, knowing the price of the game to weigh it against the content, having saves to specifically show off portions of a game and mechanics and try and avoid spoilers etc. A bad example i can give would probably be Jeff and Phantasy Star Online 2. Four hours and fifty minutes of just him basically picking up and streaming is not what i think of as a quick look. And like i said just jumping in from the beginning of a game that they haven't played before is also not the best thing to do to inform me about a game.

There are plenty of quick looks where things go off the rails and its more entertaining then informative for sure, Sleeping Dogs is a good example. But when you see the name quick look, odds are you are looking for an informative look of a game overall.

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styx971

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@efesell said:

@styx971: My point is that quick looks are ramshackle affairs by design. To get away from very scripted looking video game previews by way of just some dudes booting up the game and talking over it.

Everyone had their own preferred way of presenting games sure and some were more structured than others but to suggest that they're not planned out enough anymore is very silly.

All of that aside I'm still on the side of it feels weird to use one show to prepare content for another different show.

well i'll agree with the everyone had their own way of presenting things , i still felt it was less random than you seemed to give it credit for but i guess we can chalk that up to a manner of perspective. i'll admite that its fair to say alot of the ppl who seemed to do that more planned feeling look just aren't here anymore so its fair that it would change even if it was the case or not , but it is what it is i guess.

..but yeah i'll agree it does feel weird to repurpose content , and frankly i feel its a bit sad honestly , tho i'd also be willing to bet it was to try and 'shut ppl up' about lack of quicklooks too given how things have been around here in recent months. personally i hope its just a stopgap but ony time will tell. i mentioned danny stuff in my original comment and according to another thread i guess they mentioned stuff with that And QLs on last weeks bombcast ? ii'm a week behind all my podcasts thans to sleeping schedule weirdness ( they wake my SO up and i've been sleeping at night while hes working..weird!) so i guess i'll have to see about watch/listening to that tonight.

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@styx971: It was also often a matter of.. is it a game someone was really excited about/reviewing? If that was the case then yeah usually those are much more structured affairs.

But the vast majority of quick looks, I would say, are absolutely "what is this game, let's see" instead. Aimless wandering, Brad getting lost in a menu for an hour, nobody ever prepared to answer "What's this game cost?" even after all these years.

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eccentrix

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Quick Looks to me were always about loading up a game for the first time and seeing what it was. Being prepared just wasn't in the spirit. Also, the old, old, old joke about Quick Looks not being quick.

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styx971

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@efesell: Its an anecdotal opinion. I don't really have any good examples of "this is how you do a quick look" other then there being times when they where obviously more informed about the game going in then others. Just times when they will toss in there opinion about the story of the game they have played so far, knowing the price of the game to weigh it against the content, having saves to specifically show off portions of a game and mechanics and try and avoid spoilers etc. A bad example i can give would probably be Jeff and Phantasy Star Online 2. Four hours and fifty minutes of just him basically picking up and streaming is not what i think of as a quick look. And like i said just jumping in from the beginning of a game that they haven't played before is also not the best thing to do to inform me about a game.

There are plenty of quick looks where things go off the rails and its more entertaining then informative for sure, Sleeping Dogs is a good example. But when you see the name quick look, odds are you are looking for an informative look of a game overall.

this is pretty much how i feel about that . pricing aside (that was always hit/miss) i can think of a number of times when some of the guys tho often the east coast crew had been pretty on the ball for tho often it was in the case of rpg games of sorts too so ..idk

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I just watch in 2x speed lol. So if they go to a 30 min video...then id watch it in 15 min. Honestly, the length isn't an issue, most watch it like a podcast. You need length to get a good idea of the game given the team won't play a game longer unless alot of talk happens around it...and then they're influenced to like it and that comes with people disliking it or liking it disproportionately due to hearsay. Keep it as is.

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@styx971 said:
@efesell said:
@lego_my_eggo said:

Its more that in the past it seemed like quick looks where more prepared and thought out before taping.

Yo at what point in the entire history of the site though?

i mean there are Tons of examples of it looking more prepared so i can't honestly see how this is a real question? i guess maybe you could have possibly skipped over alot of those if the games wasn't in your interests , since i certainly don't watch Every QL. but plenty of times someone on staff would play X amount first and like mentioned plan to use a save at X point in the game and show off both the early areas and some later areas. that in itself is planning and being thought out more than just firing up a game for the first time. its also why single person QLs i think don't do it for allot of ppl cause the 2nd person usually goes in at least somewhat blind and asking questions which in itself can be a plan depending on context. not having that second person bouncing off the first leaves alot of the aspects you look for just missing. i honestly always seen QLs as more of an impressions video in the guise of a replacement for reviews where they're still analytical in a manner but not so dry at the same time like actual 'video reviews'.

@bisonhero said

"Anyway, if UPF is a lot of production effort to have to do at the end of the day on Friday, then by all means, rethink it. They could cut it down 60 minutes or something. I'd rather they start doing that, instead of filling out the time with games coverage of recent releases that they just aren't ever Quick Looking for some reason. Especially when the vibe of UPF is often "somebody playing a game while 1 or more people are not paying attention in the slightest and just talking off on a tangent about something else", it's not a great environment for Quick Looks, because either everyone is gettingsuper attentiveduring just the part that is going to get spun out into a Quick Look (which makes for a tonally weird UPF), or they don't and it's a really distracted Quick Look (which makes for a tonally weird Quick Look)."

and i can't help but agree with both of those things and thats without mentioning the value of upf as a premium like @humanity mentioned

and yes all this is after my original post cause i read OP comment n then scroll ,...just to be clear..

Yeah, i thought the deal was people were hear for the crew not for the games. The personalities are being sold, the games are just there to have some focal point. NO ONE CARES about the games vs the staff being entertaining. The team sells GB not the games so prepared or not it really changes nothing IMO. Sometimes they are prepared but they have no time for that now. Were in a tuff time and its best we let them off the hook for atleast a year or two till they get back on their feet. Personally i think they can skip the games and just have a cast on their hottest takes, interest, day, family, fun adventures. How sick would a reality tv show on GB be. lol joking but kinda thinking about it.

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#24  Edited By AV_Gamer

I'll get to the point. I'm all for longer video content, whether its quick looks or special gaming features. The longer the video the better. 15-20 minute videos really don't do the games the crew are playing these days justice, nor do I get a true feeling or opinion about how they really feel about the game, which reveals itself while they are playing it. Just a fast, here is such and such, I like get it, or I don't like it don't get it, isn't enough, especially not in the age of Twitch, Youtube Gaming, and other platforms where people are streaming their games for many hours. Not saying GB has to do the same, or course not, but they can't half-ass it anymore either.

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#25  Edited By Onemanarmyy

@topcyclist:People are different from eachother, so it's very unlikely that it's as black & white that no one really cares about the information they provide about the games. I mean, i do? I can get something out of Jeff's garage streams and tiktoks for sure, but this was also my main avenue of staying up to date with cool new stuff to play. But clearly there are plenty of people that cared about the game content. Especially when they spend quite a lot of airtime providing information about games & the industry instead of thinking up fun sketches to pull for entertainment throughout all these videos that seem to be informative in nature. Surely people haven't been staring at all these QL videos and news-segments throughout the years only for the hope that something entertaining happened during them?

I imagine most people arrived to this site because they were interested in the games and they ended up liking the people doing the games coverage. A good chunk of that audience will watch and subscribe for the people first and foremost, even if they didn't do games coverage. At the same time, there are plenty of people that used GB to get a decent view of the latest releases and the classics of yore and will end up having to look for greener pastures when they don't feel like they're able to get enough of that coverage. That's only natural and doesn't have to be a bad thing necessarily, but it will lead to that group moving more and more away from GB.

GB never pretended to be your one stop shop for all things gaming, but it's undeniable that with the current situation you kind of have to be looking outside the site to discover the latest non-AAA games that are doing well. I haven't put effort in finding a new avenue yet, and one look on some online lists tells me i am more uninformed than ever on what's hot in the indiespace right now.

Golf Club Wasteland? Splitgate footage? Just Die Already? Omno? Lake? Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion? Stonefly? Before Your Eyes? The Company Man? Curved Space? Olija? Wildfire Swap? Everhood? Curse Of The Dead Gods? Habroxia 2? Genesis Noir? El Hijo? Kaze And The Wild Masks? Rain On Your Parade? Honey I Joined A Cult? Life Is Strange: True Colors? No Umbrella's Allowed?

I've heard of a few of these but 80% is completely unknown to me. Even games like The Ascent & Knockout City, which has been mentioned regularly, have had no screentime on the site at all. Again, it's all explainable and natural that it's the way it is, but the endresult is that people will be looking elsewhere if they care about being informed and discovering games that suit them. You can no longer 'get by' on GB videos and feel like you have a decent grasp on the top ~50 games each year.

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The lack of QLs of so many games that have been coming out is super noticeable and I'd very much like to see more. Shorter videos could help but part of the issue might be that community expectations for QLs appear to have shifted if some of the responses in this thread are to be taken as evidence.

The suggestion that QLs are now all so unprepared is weird to me because I still remember back when they first started up the whole idea behind the format was that they needed almost zero preparation or editing and just jumped into the game so that they could push as much video as humanly possible for a 4 man skeleton crew.

I miss the ramshackle nature of many of those old QLs, especially since many times over the past few years the 'preparation' has resulted in being just informed enough to be dangerous (make erroneous statements from a place of perceived knowledge).

Maybe the game has changed now that the media landscape is so different but personally I'd say all the more they should lean back into that angle. There's 100 other places I can get facts about mechanics and systems (often better and more concisely) but QLs are the only place to potentially still get instant gut reactions about games from these particular goofballs.

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styx971

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#27  Edited By styx971
@onemanarmyy said:

@topcyclist:People are different from eachother, so it's very unlikely that it's as black & white that no one really cares about the information they provide about the games. I mean, i do? I can get something out of Jeff's garage streams and tiktoks for sure, but this was also my main avenue of staying up to date with cool new stuff to play. But clearly there are plenty of people that cared about the game content. Especially when they spend quite a lot of airtime providing information about games & the industry instead of thinking up fun sketches to pull for entertainment throughout all these videos that seem to be informative in nature. Surely people haven't been staring at all these QL videos and news-segments throughout the years only for the hope that something entertaining happened during them?

I imagine most people arrived to this site because they were interested in the games and they ended up liking the people doing the games coverage. A good chunk of that audience will watch and subscribe for the people first and foremost, even if they didn't do games coverage. At the same time, there are plenty of people that used GB to get a decent view of the latest releases and the classics of yore and will end up having to look for greener pastures when they don't feel like they're able to get enough of that coverage. That's only natural and doesn't have to be a bad thing necessarily, but it will lead to that group moving more and more away from GB.

GB never pretended to be your one stop shop for all things gaming, but it's undeniable that with the current situation you kind of have to be looking outside the site to discover the latest non-AAA games that are doing well. I haven't put effort in finding a new avenue yet, and one look on some online lists tells me i am more uninformed than ever on what's hot in the indiespace right now.

Golf Club Wasteland? Splitgate footage? Just Die Already? Omno? Lake? Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion? Stonefly? Before Your Eyes? The Company Man? Curved Space? Olija? Wildfire Swap? Everhood? Curse Of The Dead Gods? Habroxia 2? Genesis Noir? El Hijo? Kaze And The Wild Masks? Rain On Your Parade? Honey I Joined A Cult? Life Is Strange: True Colors? No Umbrella's Allowed?

I've heard of a few of these but 80% is completely unknown to me. Even games like The Ascent & Knockout City, which has been mentioned regularly, have had no screentime on the site at all. Again, it's all explainable and natural that it's the way it is, but the endresult is that people will be looking elsewhere if they care about being informed and discovering games that suit them. You can no longer 'get by' on GB videos and feel like you have a decent grasp on the top ~50 games each year.

yeah thats the thing , i followed a personality i enjoyed to get here but if not for the games i wouldn't have stayed long enough to get to know the others , and while i like hearing about their non-game stuff i've frankly stayed for the games too. sure you can get game stuff elsewhere but finding ppl you gel with is hard and before recently GB has pretty much sufficed as a go to place for years outside of select more obscure games that just wouldn't mesh with the crew. they used to cover more indie stuff for a while and that was nice even if i didn't always love it , these days they Might talk about it in a bombcast or upf . n while thats fine its also lacking compared to a good stretch of my time here too.

idk for anyone to say no one cares about the games seems kinda absurd to me since even if ppl came here from the jump following the personality they liked they probably started seeing those ppl in the first place because of games. i mean yes they have covered other things over the years but they're field of media has always been games from my perspective, everything else was more of the extra on top not vice versa

either way tho long or short i'm happy for coverage personally at this point .

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Were in a tuff time and its best we let them off the hook for atleast a year or two till they get back on their feet.

Starting now or a year and a half ago? Or a few months ago with the site reconfiguration?

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styx971

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@topcyclist said:

Were in a tuff time and its best we let them off the hook for atleast a year or two till they get back on their feet.

Starting now or a year and a half ago? Or a few months ago with the site reconfiguration?

Feel free to skip my rant .....

i didn't want to be the one to say it but honestly those are my thoughts exactly . ppl have been saying this for a long while at this point. first it was dan leaving n the pandemic hitting , then not filling in what we would assume are positions of abby n later ben , then now the guys. they asked for may , that imo was reasonable but we're half into sept , thats 4 months IF you don't count the past yr plus as it was already , i mean if you look at QL output alone it slowed down before dan left. so do i think they should get another additional year or 2 slack? no . i think it should be petty clear what they're doing before the yr is up . what we'll get instead tho is jeff just had a baby , n then oh the holidays hit , and then game of the year ,thats assuming they even do something similar at this point which is just while not impossible i just don't see it with how everything else has been. .. don't get me wrong i've loved this site for the number of years i've been coming here , but i already cancelled my sub ( paid up till sept 30th next yr) at this point i don't think its a we should cut them slack anymore so much as now they need to prove they're worth as a pay for premium site. don't get me wrong i've liked some of the new stuff but upf has always been hit and miss and i skip it alot since i don't watch it live usually. but thats been one of the few in house things they've done this yr at this point and i can't see paying for that or random ppl i don't want to support. them chopping up stuff to repack it as a QL isn't great but i think thats the area to cut them slack in if any. but idk what i'm even paying for at this point other than past stuff i have no intention of watching.

End Rant

now do i think this is the place for my rant....not really but i already typed it so here you go.
TLDR: hasn't there been enough slack?

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permanentsigh

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Why do threads always end up with people airing their grievances. Give it a rest already.

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I didn't mind that the WarioWare Quick Look was ripped out of UPF, except for the part where I watched the QL before I had watched that particular UPF, which was quickly solved by skipping over that portion of UPF. I'd bet that that wasn't even their initial plan.

The ironic thing about shorter Quick Looks, since that seems to be where the discussion has headed, is that it probably requires MORE prep time. You'd have to play far enough into a game to understand it enough to present it in a tight, informative, and concise way, as opposed to playing it for a tiny bit and then basically recording the QL as you learn the game yourself for an hour or so. There have been Quick Looks in so many different styles over the years. It's such a loose format that could maybe stand to be given some structure, if that was something that people felt was now necessary.

As far as video length in general, I have accepted long ago that I'm not going to consume all of Giant Bomb's (or any streamer's) content. I skip what I don't want to watch entirely, bow out of long videos when I've had enough, and reserve the right to generate a "watch list" for the stuff that I want to watch but just not right now (especially with the influx of new shows). But don't deprive other people of this breadth of content just because I, personally, can't keep up with it.

My general hope is that the staff are simply doing the things that they themselves find enjoyable. I think that I'd prefer the longer stuff for when I need it, though.

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Topcyclist

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@styx971 said:
@eccentrix said:
@topcyclist said:

Were in a tuff time and its best we let them off the hook for atleast a year or two till they get back on their feet.

Starting now or a year and a half ago? Or a few months ago with the site reconfiguration?

Feel free to skip my rant .....

i didn't want to be the one to say it but honestly those are my thoughts exactly . ppl have been saying this for a long while at this point. first it was dan leaving n the pandemic hitting , then not filling in what we would assume are positions of abby n later ben , then now the guys. they asked for may , that imo was reasonable but we're half into sept , thats 4 months IF you don't count the past yr plus as it was already , i mean if you look at QL output alone it slowed down before dan left. so do i think they should get another additional year or 2 slack? no . i think it should be petty clear what they're doing before the yr is up . what we'll get instead tho is jeff just had a baby , n then oh the holidays hit , and then game of the year ,thats assuming they even do something similar at this point which is just while not impossible i just don't see it with how everything else has been. .. don't get me wrong i've loved this site for the number of years i've been coming here , but i already cancelled my sub ( paid up till sept 30th next yr) at this point i don't think its a we should cut them slack anymore so much as now they need to prove they're worth as a pay for premium site. don't get me wrong i've liked some of the new stuff but upf has always been hit and miss and i skip it alot since i don't watch it live usually. but thats been one of the few in house things they've done this yr at this point and i can't see paying for that or random ppl i don't want to support. them chopping up stuff to repack it as a QL isn't great but i think thats the area to cut them slack in if any. but idk what i'm even paying for at this point other than past stuff i have no intention of watching.

End Rant

now do i think this is the place for my rant....not really but i already typed it so here you go.

TLDR: hasn't there been enough slack?

Naw, you gotta understand and It's hard, I get grumped out by stuff going on too...but with the world like it is, jeff trying his best with a new baby and raising it while all this is going on. You know how hard it is to raise a baby these days with added stress about them catching this thing...Add to that many staff left so it will take time. But in the meantime we have quick looks when games come out, many AAA games have released thus no quick looks. I think the crew is focused on the fundamentals given no games are out to really play. They always cover em when they release unless I'm mistaken. (popular ones). UPF mixed into quicklooks is useful to save time and they can focus on the stuff you want. Cut em some slack. I usually get hard on em too but had to reevaluate myself and remember how hard things are for em. I hope the content jumps and we can all be happy thou. In the meantime watch the new staff's stuff. Really fresh ideas regardless if you're on board or not. Or watch souls stream coming back soon i heard.

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Topcyclist

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@permanentsigh: Eh, telling people to stop telling why they want things to change is equivalent to telling protesters to stop being a baby and go with whatever thing was the status quo that they're against. It's helpful to hear issues so we can discuss and resolve them if possible. Closing your ears to issues and labeling those with grievances some contrarians or non-fans or so on usually leads to issues like twitch and youtube have with creators saying they need fixes and the big company saying well go somewhere else if you don't like it. The smaller GB community means you can get your grievances heard or considered and explained why they cant be fixed. In essence thou i see your point and essentially, the issues arent ones that need fixing for most fans so it's a moot point IDK.

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#34  Edited By Shindig  Online

How short are we talking here? Going Rogue levels of 'whoops'?

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styx971

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#35  Edited By styx971

@topcyclist: thanks for defending my 'grumpiness' even if i don't agree with everything you've said it was something nice.

i still disagree they need another yr-2 of slack but i'll agree they do have things rough i just think they might want to evaluate why its so rough and try and fix why sooner than later. that Q&A thing bakalar and rorie did make me hopeful that Maybe the staffing issue will get fixed hopefully by the start of the yr given that they claimed it was review time there and i can respect that , hell it even showed with jan getting a promotion which i'm happy for him for. as for jeff having another baby in a pandemic thats not my business but certainly his choice so it is what it is honestly personally they're not for me so while yes i know how it is cause others no not really and i never will. .......

to say there hasn't been any games coming out and thats why they've been 'light' on QLs till now is just frankly wrong tho honestly. ( forgive me if i misread what you ment but it was worded slightly confusingly) i mean .. i can show you a list from GI for the games released this yr and theres just So many games that released in this timeframe thats been dry that its not even funny. GI being a big outlet often doesn't cover all the little stuff either in those lists cause theres been plenty of times i was interested in X and it doesn't get listed so to say there wasn't something to cover i just can't see. idk thats just me tho...but not really cause others in here Have mentioned that also.

at the end of the day tho it really doesn't matter they're going to do what they're going to do , if they cover games i'm fine with both long and short videos , tho i would agree shorter is easier for many to watch due to length and should in theory take less time to edit? so could theoretically help lighten the load vs longer stuff. still tho these 'new' ones have largely been archive footage so i guess its just easier to chop up n toss up there, its not the same to me tho.

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styx971

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@shindig said:

How short are we talking here? Going Rogue levels of 'whoops'?

honestly while frankly 'too short' at times it was kinda nice to have a series that i even cared to watch so those bite-sized things were something. sure i wished they were longer but i think they handled it well in the context of the pitch of the show.

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@styx971 said:
@onemanarmyy said:

@topcyclist:People are different from eachother, so it's very unlikely that it's as black & white that no one really cares about the information they provide about the games. I mean, i do? I can get something out of Jeff's garage streams and tiktoks for sure, but this was also my main avenue of staying up to date with cool new stuff to play. But clearly there are plenty of people that cared about the game content. Especially when they spend quite a lot of airtime providing information about games & the industry instead of thinking up fun sketches to pull for entertainment throughout all these videos that seem to be informative in nature. Surely people haven't been staring at all these QL videos and news-segments throughout the years only for the hope that something entertaining happened during them?

I imagine most people arrived to this site because they were interested in the games and they ended up liking the people doing the games coverage. A good chunk of that audience will watch and subscribe for the people first and foremost, even if they didn't do games coverage. At the same time, there are plenty of people that used GB to get a decent view of the latest releases and the classics of yore and will end up having to look for greener pastures when they don't feel like they're able to get enough of that coverage. That's only natural and doesn't have to be a bad thing necessarily, but it will lead to that group moving more and more away from GB.

GB never pretended to be your one stop shop for all things gaming, but it's undeniable that with the current situation you kind of have to be looking outside the site to discover the latest non-AAA games that are doing well. I haven't put effort in finding a new avenue yet, and one look on some online lists tells me i am more uninformed than ever on what's hot in the indiespace right now.

Golf Club Wasteland? Splitgate footage? Just Die Already? Omno? Lake? Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion? Stonefly? Before Your Eyes? The Company Man? Curved Space? Olija? Wildfire Swap? Everhood? Curse Of The Dead Gods? Habroxia 2? Genesis Noir? El Hijo? Kaze And The Wild Masks? Rain On Your Parade? Honey I Joined A Cult? Life Is Strange: True Colors? No Umbrella's Allowed?

I've heard of a few of these but 80% is completely unknown to me. Even games like The Ascent & Knockout City, which has been mentioned regularly, have had no screentime on the site at all. Again, it's all explainable and natural that it's the way it is, but the endresult is that people will be looking elsewhere if they care about being informed and discovering games that suit them. You can no longer 'get by' on GB videos and feel like you have a decent grasp on the top ~50 games each year.

yeah thats the thing , i followed a personality i enjoyed to get here but if not for the games i wouldn't have stayed long enough to get to know the others , and while i like hearing about their non-game stuff i've frankly stayed for the games too. sure you can get game stuff elsewhere but finding ppl you gel with is hard and before recently GB has pretty much sufficed as a go to place for years outside of select more obscure games that just wouldn't mesh with the crew. they used to cover more indie stuff for a while and that was nice even if i didn't always love it , these days they Might talk about it in a bombcast or upf . n while thats fine its also lacking compared to a good stretch of my time here too.

idk for anyone to say no one cares about the games seems kinda absurd to me since even if ppl came here from the jump following the personality they liked they probably started seeing those ppl in the first place because of games. i mean yes they have covered other things over the years but they're field of media has always been games from my perspective, everything else was more of the extra on top not vice versa

either way tho long or short i'm happy for coverage personally at this point .

Good point. I agree that the games are way more important than we older fans make it seem. Emergent stuff and jokes playing a game is fun in it self so just them shooting the crap wouldn't be as gratifying cause many can get that psuedorelationship from watching tv or friends IDK. Point is your right, and I hope we see more games along with what else they come up with, to satisfy everyone in a nice way.

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Topcyclist

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@styx971: Naw you understood my point perfectly. Hard to speak not my native language. I see your point now and agree, we will hopefully see some improvements. I never noticed that many games came out and keep thinking AAA like ubisoft or something that they likely wouldn't even like but would have to cover given the prestige.

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styx971

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@styx971: Naw you understood my point perfectly. Hard to speak not my native language. I see your point now and agree, we will hopefully see some improvements. I never noticed that many games came out and keep thinking AAA like ubisoft or something that they likely wouldn't even like but would have to cover given the prestige.

i thought as much but i wasn't sure, your english seems fine its just a phrasing thing but it happens :)

yeah i think thats the thing about games coverage as a whole its easy for places to pass up indies in favor of AAA stuff cause it gets the most attention ( not that this site doesn't cover both but its definitely been slim for a bit), its just a sad fact that theres so many great indie games that ppl can just miss cause all they really think about releasing are heavy hitters. so of course ppl are going to think its just been a dry point in the year if those big ones aren't coming out. i'll admit idk how many ppl realize what has come out or what they missed if they only go by something like a QL being posted or X being talked about in a podcast , but the fact that its so easy for ppl to miss things just makes me sad, but honestly more-so it makes me worry about coverage as a whole when it comes to newer generation , but alas thats a different topic.

anyway i'm going to see myself out of this for a while before i continuously inadvertedly keep side tracking the original topic of the thread which was the question of if its time to have shorter videos vs longer .. in which i'll restate that it just depends on the game and that i like both for QLs in particular but honestly miss the long form video series on the site.

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#40 bondfish  Online

Warioware came out on Friday so they took a look at it on Friday on UPF to show it off. I don't think a real quick look would be warranted for that game and what it is, they basically showed off most of what that game has to offer on UPF, if they do a general quick look it would most likely be the same content. Also UPF is premium which would me that the QL would have to be free, so why record a separate video just for a quick for the free people when they already essentially have QL for premium users

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@styx971: There's no equivalent of upvote or thumbs up in here, so I just wanted to say that you've raised a ton of good points and I completely agree with what you've been saying in this thread!

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styx971

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@brainscratch: thanks a ton :) i wish it was that easy to do cause alot of times i just want to leave it at a thumb up/down vs worrying my name popping up gets annoying to ppl so seriously it might not have been much but seeing this has honestly made my night (2am atm). :)