Metal Gear Scanlon this week?

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Baillie

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@baillie: The one pro tip that I hope Dan has him do off screen is to get Raiden to have a level 3 grip becuase that shit was useful when I needed it.

If there's one thing Drew would totally not be up for doing, it's that. He cares way too much about the audience and will get embarrassed by how long it takes.

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Pie

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I remember spoiling many endurance run episodes doing this

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BisonHero

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#153  Edited By BisonHero

@baillie: Man, imagine if the entirety of MGS2 were as good as the Tanker chapter. And we didn't have to deal with all the dumb bomb defusal, the awful swimming mechanics, and the terrible part where you have to lead Emma around by the hand for a really contrived reason. God, Big Shell was just such a poor setting.

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Baillie

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@pie said:

I remember spoiling many endurance run episodes doing this

We're old.

@baillie: Man, imagine if the entirety of MGS2 were as good as the Tanker chapter. And we didn't have to deal with all the dumb bomb defusal, the awful swimming mechanics, and the terrible part where you have to lead Emma around by the hand for a really contrived reason. God, Big Shell was just such a poor setting.

I'll never understand why MGS2 is as highly praised as it it. The Tanker chapter is pretty amazing. The Plant chapter has some cool moments, but overall it's tedious, contrived and bloated. I remember after beating the harrier jet, the gameplay resumes and you are on a broken sewage pipe on the edge of the plant platform. I ran forward, slipped on some bird shit, fell off and died; It's reasons like this I can't be too mad at the game.

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I_Stay_Puft

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#155  Edited By I_Stay_Puft

Oh god this thing is 7 hours and 7 minutes late.

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donchipotle

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@baillie said:

@pie said:

I remember spoiling many endurance run episodes doing this

We're old.

@bisonhero said:

@baillie: Man, imagine if the entirety of MGS2 were as good as the Tanker chapter. And we didn't have to deal with all the dumb bomb defusal, the awful swimming mechanics, and the terrible part where you have to lead Emma around by the hand for a really contrived reason. God, Big Shell was just such a poor setting.

I'll never understand why MGS2 is as highly praised as it it. The Tanker chapter is pretty amazing. The Plant chapter has some cool moments, but overall it's tedious, contrived and bloated. I remember after beating the harrier jet, the gameplay resumes and you are on a broken sewage pipe on the edge of the plant platform. I ran forward, slipped on some bird shit, fell off and died; It's reasons like this I can't be too mad at the game.

MGS 2 wasn't highly praised at the time it came out. But it's praised now because people are finally understanding that the game was a giant play on player expectations and it was a novel concept.

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BisonHero

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@donchipotle: I mean, it subverted player expectations with the bait and switch of the protagonist, and the part where MGS2 tries to loosely recreate similar events to MGS1. But MGS2, on a gameplay level, is pretty much one step forward, two steps back. As much as they added first person aiming and hiding in lockers and hanging off ledges, the actual gameplay scenarios totally suck, and it's the beginning of all the stupidest elements of the MGS mythology. Also it's ridiculous how many things regarding the Patriots that they bring up without explaining whatsoever until MGS 3 and 4.

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Baillie

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@bisonhero: I think we usually disagree on things, if I'm remembering correctly. But man, you're singing a lullaby and I'm falling asleep in your arms right now.

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donchipotle

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#159  Edited By donchipotle

@donchipotle: I mean, it subverted player expectations with the bait and switch of the protagonist, and the part where MGS2 tries to loosely recreate similar events to MGS1. But MGS2, on a gameplay level, is pretty much one step forward, two steps back. As much as they added first person aiming and hiding in lockers and hanging off ledges, the actual gameplay scenarios totally suck, and it's the beginning of all the stupidest elements of the MGS mythology. Also it's ridiculous how many things regarding the Patriots that they bring up without explaining whatsoever until MGS 3 and 4.

MGS 2's biggest problem is that in its own universe it has zero impact on pretty much anything going forward. It's largely inconsequential overall. MGS 4, the worst one, plays as if MGS 2 never even happened in some spots. As far as the game itself goes, I feel it is the best of the PS2 games. People like to point out the bomb defusing or the Emma thing as if it was this lengthy procedure when it really isn't. MGS 2 deserves way more credit for introducing the core mechanics of the series going forward. Stuff like holding guards up, slow walking, shooting out radios, better enemy A.I. It's improvements to the overall gameplay like that that makes MGS 2 beloved, not just its narrative, which is about as complex a narrative as MGS ever got...which isn't saying much.

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I_Stay_Puft

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I think Metal Gear was already heading in a weird direction when Michael Biehn and Sean Connery appeared in the first game.

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Savage

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@donchipotle said:

MGS 2 wasn't highly praised at the time it came out. But it's praised now because people are finally understanding that the game was a giant play on player expectations and it was a novel concept.

MGS 2 got massive praise when it first came out. It's the 35th highest rated game of all time on Metacritic with a 96, the highest score of any Metal Gear game.

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MancombSeepgood

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I'm with Dan when I say that you can make a strong case for every Metal Gear Solid game being the best one. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a great game. Do I think that Drew will have the patience to get through it? Fuck. No.

MGS 2 goes one step further with the lengthy scenes of dialogue and codec conversations. The codec stuff in particular. It being used as a stand-in for actual cutscenes (lest people eavesdrop...) was a nightmare. I would love to see his reaction the last few hours, but I don't think it's going to happen. Unless Dan really sells it to him after this feature is done with. Maybe the cliffhanger at the end and the promise of nonsense and better controls will sell him.

I have to wonder if Drew would be more hot on the game if he had played Twin Snakes instead.

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BisonHero

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#163  Edited By BisonHero

Man, watching Part 7, I forgot the little theme it plays when Snake suddenly starts talking about Big Boss being his father. Like, just completely forgot about that track (though it might just be another rearrangement of the main credits theme song, with the Celtic singing or whatever). Also, Repalmer Ocelot is my new favourite joke from this series.

Also I really love how Drew can't get over "giant and shaman". It is a pretty dumb/great line, for one of the most ridiculous characters in MGS1.

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ArtisanBreads

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#164  Edited By ArtisanBreads

@mancombseepgood said:

I'm with Dan when I say that you can make a strong case for every Metal Gear Solid game being the best one. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a great game. Do I think that Drew will have the patience to get through it? Fuck. No.

MGS 2 goes one step further with the lengthy scenes of dialogue and codec conversations. The codec stuff in particular. It being used as a stand-in for actual cutscenes (lest people eavesdrop...) was a nightmare. I would love to see his reaction the last few hours, but I don't think it's going to happen. Unless Dan really sells it to him after this feature is done with. Maybe the cliffhanger at the end and the promise of nonsense and better controls will sell him.

I have to wonder if Drew would be more hot on the game if he had played Twin Snakes instead.

Personally I think everyone is overrating the controls helping him because yes those are an issue but I just think he is playing the game fundamentally battling against what you are supposed to do. If he doesn't want to run and hide when he gets caught.

MGS2 isn't going to be better (I feel like that's even emphasized in that game with hiding bodies and hiding spots like lockers, as well as reinforcements that come in with more armor if you are fighting your way though).

Even though you can shoot in first person in 2, I don't feel like you could get through the game shooting a lot until 3 and 4, where if you get a silenced rifle you can get through pretty easily by just picking off patrols when they are isolated and creeping through the game. Otherwise you can shoot, yes, but he will still be getting spotted in the normal camera and he will still have to be stealthier.

I empathize with him if the camera bothers him because after 1 and 2 I really couldn't do it with 3 and didn't get through and love that game until the re-release with the third person camera. I haven't gone back and played 1 or 2.

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Berserker976

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I'm with Dan when I say that you can make a strong case for every Metal Gear Solid game being the best one. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a great game. Do I think that Drew will have the patience to get through it? Fuck. No.

MGS 2 goes one step further with the lengthy scenes of dialogue and codec conversations. The codec stuff in particular. It being used as a stand-in for actual cutscenes (lest people eavesdrop...) was a nightmare. I would love to see his reaction the last few hours, but I don't think it's going to happen. Unless Dan really sells it to him after this feature is done with. Maybe the cliffhanger at the end and the promise of nonsense and better controls will sell him.

I have to wonder if Drew would be more hot on the game if he had played Twin Snakes instead.

I don't get this. It seems to me that Drew's favorite parts so far in MGS1 are the lengthy cutscenes and dialogue stuff. What he seems to not be enjoying is the gameplay. By that logic he should love MGS2, no?

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ArtisanBreads

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#166  Edited By ArtisanBreads

@baillie said:

@baillie: Man, imagine if the entirety of MGS2 were as good as the Tanker chapter. And we didn't have to deal with all the dumb bomb defusal, the awful swimming mechanics, and the terrible part where you have to lead Emma around by the hand for a really contrived reason. God, Big Shell was just such a poor setting.

I'll never understand why MGS2 is as highly praised as it it. The Tanker chapter is pretty amazing. The Plant chapter has some cool moments, but overall it's tedious, contrived and bloated. I remember after beating the harrier jet, the gameplay resumes and you are on a broken sewage pipe on the edge of the plant platform. I ran forward, slipped on some bird shit, fell off and died; It's reasons like this I can't be too mad at the game.

I'm a huge fan of the series and really didn't like playing 2 most of the time. The robot drone things weren't fun, the environments were too complex for the camera I felt like. And it was extremely repetitive looking. Didn't find the bosses as memorable as others in the series.

It was disappointing overall and haven't gone back. I actually hope they do play it on Giant Bomb because I haven't gone back and I'd be curious. Right now it's certainly my least favorite Metal Gear game of the core ones.

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MancombSeepgood

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@berserker976: I dunno. Have you seen the latest episode (ep 7)? He looked a little frustrated when he kept having to take calls in the jail cell and stuff. I mean yeah it probably is his favourite part of the game but MGS 2 goes way way overboard with it. Like I said above, the codec stuff is really grating (take this from a huge fan of the game). If he does do it, it'll be interesting to see whether or not he enjoys it at all.

@artisanbreads: I'm with you in as much as you can't shoot your way through MGS 2. I just replayed it last week and you don't really have any other choice but to hide when they come at you, because there're so god damned many of them and they start turning up wearing armour and stuff. I don't think patience is Drew's problem, he just needs to get to grips with the stealth. In a game without the modern trappings of a stealth game like modern Splinter Cell games (cover to cover, stuff like that), it's going to be hard.

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AthleticShark

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After watching this latest episode I'm genuinely scared that Drew just isn't having a good time playing the game... I think our hopes for a Metal Gear Scanlon 2: Sons of Scanlon feature are going to be short lived :(

We're relying on you Dan to keep him motivated!

He has said time and time again the way he acts on video does not mean he is not enjoying it. He just gets forgetful which causes frustration. That is why this series would be done on an actual schedule.

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BabyChooChoo

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#169  Edited By BabyChooChoo

So...did it ever go up? or was it delayed or what? because I don't see it anywhere on the site.

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MancombSeepgood

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#170  Edited By MancombSeepgood

@hellbound: Yes, but he said today that he sees a lot of the gameplay as a chore. Not too many other ways of interpreting that, y'know? I wouldn't want to keep playing a game that felt like a chore.

Edit: By today I of course mean in episode 7.

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Berserker976

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@berserker976: I dunno. Have you seen the latest episode (ep 7)? He looked a little frustrated when he kept having to take calls in the jail cell and stuff. I mean yeah it probably is his favourite part of the game but MGS 2 goes way way overboard with it. Like I said above, the codec stuff is really grating (take this from a huge fan of the game). If he does do it, it'll be interesting to see whether or not he enjoys it at all.

@artisanbreads: I'm with you in as much as you can't shoot your way through MGS 2. I just replayed it last week and you don't really have any other choice but to hide when they come at you, because there're so god damned many of them and they start turning up wearing armour and stuff. I don't think patience is Drew's problem, he just needs to get to grips with the stealth. In a game without the modern trappings of a stealth game like modern Splinter Cell games (cover to cover, stuff like that), it's going to be hard.

I have seen it, and it seemed like he was only annoyed when he had to redo codec conversations, and he keeps insisting that he wants to keep playing to "see what happens next." That, to me, points to someone that is invested in the story. Also, the codec stuff in 2 is only really grating if you don't know the secret best feature in all of MGS: R1 and R2

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Baillie

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@mancombseepgood said:

I'm with Dan when I say that you can make a strong case for every Metal Gear Solid game being the best one. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a great game. Do I think that Drew will have the patience to get through it? Fuck. No.

MGS 2 goes one step further with the lengthy scenes of dialogue and codec conversations. The codec stuff in particular. It being used as a stand-in for actual cutscenes (lest people eavesdrop...) was a nightmare. I would love to see his reaction the last few hours, but I don't think it's going to happen. Unless Dan really sells it to him after this feature is done with. Maybe the cliffhanger at the end and the promise of nonsense and better controls will sell him.

I have to wonder if Drew would be more hot on the game if he had played Twin Snakes instead.

I don't get this. It seems to me that Drew's favorite parts so far in MGS1 are the lengthy cutscenes and dialogue stuff. What he seems to not be enjoying is the gameplay. By that logic he should love MGS2, no?

I think you're forgetting we're talking about Drew here. He will think the dumb stuff is really, really fucking stupid. MGS 1 and 3 have a much more grounded, military type story. I can see him being really interested in the concepts brought up about the cold war in Snake Eater.

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groposo

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Did it ever go up? Cause I can't find it.

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Berserker976

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@baillie said:

@berserker976 said:

@mancombseepgood said:

I'm with Dan when I say that you can make a strong case for every Metal Gear Solid game being the best one. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a great game. Do I think that Drew will have the patience to get through it? Fuck. No.

MGS 2 goes one step further with the lengthy scenes of dialogue and codec conversations. The codec stuff in particular. It being used as a stand-in for actual cutscenes (lest people eavesdrop...) was a nightmare. I would love to see his reaction the last few hours, but I don't think it's going to happen. Unless Dan really sells it to him after this feature is done with. Maybe the cliffhanger at the end and the promise of nonsense and better controls will sell him.

I have to wonder if Drew would be more hot on the game if he had played Twin Snakes instead.

I don't get this. It seems to me that Drew's favorite parts so far in MGS1 are the lengthy cutscenes and dialogue stuff. What he seems to not be enjoying is the gameplay. By that logic he should love MGS2, no?

I think you're forgetting we're talking about Drew here. He will think the dumb stuff is really, really fucking stupid. MGS 1 and 3 have a much more grounded, military type story. I can see him being really interested in the concepts brought up about the cold war in Snake Eater.

I dunno, do you have evidence that he dislikes MGS2 style stories? I don't even know what that would look like, but it's possible I've missed something. I do know he likes Halo, and Bungie's stories are pretty dumb. Not MGS2 dumb, but dumb nonetheless.

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ArtisanBreads

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@baillie said:

I think you're forgetting we're talking about Drew here. He will think the dumb stuff is really, really fucking stupid. MGS 1 and 3 have a much more grounded, military type story. I can see him being really interested in the concepts brought up about the cold war in Snake Eater.

I totally agree with Drew liking 3 more with its story and I think he would actually improve a lot in the gameplay probably with 3, which he could get a third person camera in. I think 2 could actually go badly.

@groposo said:

Did it ever go up? Cause I can't find it.

Yeah me either.

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GERALTITUDE

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Did I hallucinate the banner that said there was going to be a new MGS this morning at 1 AM ? I could have sworn I was up in bed hitting refresh and then suddenly I'm at work.

Cruel twist of fate.

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Jesus_Phish

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#177  Edited By Jesus_Phish

@baillie: They both still have really, really dumb/weird bosses and characters. The dumbest/weirdest boss in MGS1 is easily Mantis. MGS3 you have The Fear, The Pain, The Sorrow, The Fury all of which are mental when compared to Sniper Wolf and Revolver Ocelot. At least Grey Fox can be explained away with his cyber suit.

I think you're right though that he'll like the theme and ideas of Snake Eater more.

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Baillie

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I dunno, do you have evidence that he dislikes MGS2 style stories? I don't even know what that would look like, but it's possible I've missed something. I do know he likes Halo, and Bungie's stories are pretty dumb. Not MGS2 dumb, but dumb nonetheless.

I don't know if I'd call the Halo stories dumb, they're just Sci-Fi. Most of the time there's a grounded story about the fate of humanity and the war against the covenant.

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ibfreeekout

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@geraltitude: I saw it too. For me it said that episode 7 would be available at 3 AM EDT today. Now it's not there and no video :(

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Pozxz

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Not sure where the episode is. Maybe it's still getting encoded.

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bybeach

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@pozo said:

Not sure where the episode is. Maybe it's still getting encoded.

Waiting myself. Thought I'd be viewing it this morning.

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AndrewB

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@bybeach: You can view it through some trickery mentioned earlier in the thread.

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@andrewb: I guess I'm having issues with that tricky on my iphone.

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BisonHero

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@jesus_phish said:

@baillie: They both still have really, really dumb/weird bosses and characters. The dumbest/weirdest boss in MGS1 is easily Mantis. MGS3 you have The Fear, The Pain, The Sorrow, The Fury all of which are mental when compared to Sniper Wolf and Revolver Ocelot. At least Grey Fox can be explained away with his cyber suit.

I think you're right though that he'll like the theme and ideas of Snake Eater more.

Sure, Mantis and his powers are absurd, but Vulcan Raven is right up there. Mainly in that he is described as "giant and shaman", and while the tank fight is kinda normal, your final fight with him has him use weird raven magic to paralyze Snake so he can deliver a monologue before the fight.

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Jesus_Phish

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@bisonhero: The raven is weird sure, but I don't get why people think describing someone as a giant and a shaman is weird. Both of those things can be used to describe people. Shaman's are a thing in some cultures and it's not unusual for very big people to be called giants.

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BisonHero

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@jesus_phish: I just feel like neither of those traits seem congruous with his membership in this elite military unit. He goes on about the ear pull and whatever, but he's the hardest to imagine what it would've been like in the past when FOXHOUND wasn't rogue and was off doing missions. What did he do on missions, aside from carry around a giant gun that makes him incredibly slow? He actually reminds me of Batman's Bane, in that he's this big, intelligent strongman who also has a flair for the dramatic.

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#188  Edited By AthleticShark

@hellbound: Yes, but he said today that he sees a lot of the gameplay as a chore. Not too many other ways of interpreting that, y'know? I wouldn't want to keep playing a game that felt like a chore.

Edit: By today I of course mean in episode 7.

Most PSX games are. If anything I am sure they will take a break and maybe try 2. 2 plays 50x times better and also considering this series is their most popular and getting a ton of views...I would say that makes it a bit more convincing.

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dynamix

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@bisonhero: The raven is weird sure, but I don't get why people think describing someone as a giant and a shaman is weird. Both of those things can be used to describe people. Shaman's are a thing in some cultures and it's not unusual for very big people to be called giants.

Why not just call him a giant shaman? The "and" is what makes it extra weird, in my opinion.

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LevelZeroZilch

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Jesus_Phish

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@dynamix: My guess, it's a mistake on their part. They meant to say he's "a giant and a shaman" but they forgot the second a. It's like when Aerith says "This guy are sick" in FF7. It's a mistake. It doesn't make her a weirdo or make the story any different.

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teaoverlord

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@jesus_phish: He's using giant and shaman as nouns. He says "Vulcan Raven, giant and shaman" the same way he says "Decoy Octopus, master of disguise" a line earlier. He's just listing two nouns instead of one.

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floomp

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@dynamix said:
@jesus_phish said:

@bisonhero: The raven is weird sure, but I don't get why people think describing someone as a giant and a shaman is weird. Both of those things can be used to describe people. Shaman's are a thing in some cultures and it's not unusual for very big people to be called giants.

Why not just call him a giant shaman? The "and" is what makes it extra weird, in my opinion.

I think that changes the meaning though. When Campbell says "giant and shaman", he's using both words as nouns - Vulcan is a giant and a shaman. "Giant" as a noun has some specific meanings referring to humans:

  • A mythical human of very great size.
  • (mythology) Specifically, any of the Gigantes, the race of giants in the Greek mythology.
  • A very tall person.
  • A person of extraordinary strength or powers, bodily or intellectual.

"Giant" as an adjective just means "very large".

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Jesus_Phish

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@teaoverlord: Either way though it makes sense. It'd be like calling him "a giant and priest" or "a giant and doctor" or "a giant and wizard".

I don't get hung up on it. I know what Campbell meant by saying it and it's honestly the least weird thing in that game, let alone the series.

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@baillie: which is exactly why I said he should do it off screen. It's totally doable and will only take 10 minutes. Oh well, you're probably right that he won't do it.

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Baillie

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@baillie: which is exactly why I said he should do it off screen. It's totally doable and will only take 10 minutes. Oh well, your probably right that he won't do it.

Yeah, he wouldn't do it, but it's a useful thing to do. Dan could just get him to do 10-20 every so often lol.

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Oscar__Explosion

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@baillie: oh man that would be so awesome! Just every once in a while have Dan make Drew do some reps without telling him why and then when he hits level 2 Drew can see the benefit in doing them.

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@oscar__explosion said:

@baillie: oh man that would be so awesome! Just every once in a while have Dan make Drew do some reps without telling him why and then when he hits level 2 Drew can see the benefit in doing them.

@danryckert if you're reading this, you may take my methods of training.