Microsoft insider claims they should refocus on PC gaming

Microsoft Insider Claims It Should Refocus on PC

"Xbox does not fit into Microsoft’s portfolio," he claims. "If you talk about maybe the software for it and the services, okay, but making that hardware box? My God. There is no money there!

"Yes, maybe it attracted the younger generation who want a game console, but look at the graphical quality on all these games consoles today," he explained. "Compared with the graphic systems you can have on the PC, they’re awful, they’re just awful! They’re always a generation or two behind for the simple reason that they need to sell these boxes for 250 bucks."

"I really think PC gaming should be the focus, okay? I mean, what’s the future of PC gaming? Is it going to be on these specialised boxes, or is it going to go into a more standard PC model? If the prices on PCs come down further, these boxes might be squeezed out."

I find it hard to believe that MS doesn't make that much money off of the Xbox brand. But this is definitely interesting, it also seems to suggest that they are looking for something similar akin to what Valve is doing with the "Steam Box". The article also states that we will be seeing the PS4 really soon as that is what MS is currently worried about.

that would be cool.

I maybe just throwing stones but do you think that maybe this has to do with Windows 8 not being all that great etc. after all i suppose they would want more sales on the OS side and the PC uses that OS etc. so in order to sell more OS they have to catter to the PC .... I dunno but that makes sense to me (could be completely wrong though / am ) :P

taken from a recently published article on Microsofts record profits

Microsoft's Xbox division reported disappointing results, recording a 16 percent drop in revenue, to $1.62 billion. The unit also reported a $229 million operating loss, versus a $210 million profit a year ago.

Microsoft blamed the drop on a weak gaming market, which NPD results have borne out.Video-game sales fell a shocking 25 percent in March, the fourth straight month that video game sales have been on the decline within the United States.

link to the Article at PCmag

Now this piece taken from a februry 2011 article

Revenues at its entertainment and devices division, which produces the Xbox and Kinect grew by 55%, to $3.7bn, and profits by 83% to $679m. But revenues were down 30% at its workhorse Windows division, to $5bn, and profits fell by 40% year-on-year to $3.2bn. The principal cause of weakness was slow growth in the PC market, which only grew by 3% during the year; the Windows division relies on sales of its Windows operating sytem.

l;ink to the Article from the guardia

Its no Surprise to me that during the launch year of Kinect and earlier in this generations cycle the entertainment division boasted record profits while the company slumped and now two years later with the release of Windows 8 Microsoft's other divisions which concentrate on PC software have risen, as people buy new hardware they generally tend to splash out on new software like Microsoft Office and the same also applies to consoles, the longer the generation has gone on the more people grow bored and stop buying games, while the linked article about video game sales falling 25% in march and has done for the last four consecutive months other sites are reporting that PC Gaming is on the rise and sales figures are showing a 19% rise.

The bottom has simply fell out of the more casual game consumer market, they have the games they play and that's it for them, it remains to be seen if new Hardware will change that of course but i think we can all agree that at this point we need it.

On the point of Microsoft going into the PC gaming market its probably also fair to say that they would have a tough time cutting a slice out of what steam already has, their efforts in the past have been less than great and without the closed marketplace that a dedicated console offers Microsoft's pricing structure would most likely put them on the wrong end of the pricing war.

This article - i.e. this guy's opinion - seems extremely misguided to me.

I think it's more likely that you'll see the line between consoles and PCs becoming more blurred - this has already happened to some extent - than consoles fading altogether. And Microsoft has already suffered through the failures of the original Xbox to become something of a market leader with the 360, so it doesn't seem like now is the right time to talk about Microsoft getting out of the console game. The basic point is sound - it's obvious that MS can make great software but doesn't have a good track record when it comes to hardware (as opposed to Sony who generally make great hardware and somewhat dodgy software) - but it's much bigger than that. The argument that MS has lost its way as regards PC gamers is also a sound argument, but sacrificing consoles and shifting development to PCs is by no means the right answer.

Let me put it this way: Xbox Live gold memberships are, presumably, a big revenue stream for MS's Xbox division. Could they charge for Xbox Live on the PC? Hell no, because Steam offers everything Xbox Live offers, and doesn't cost a cent.

And seeing that the article is derived from the opinions of someone who has worked at MS for over 20 years, it's possible that this guy is just stuck in the past and the old business model that made MS pioneers of home computing, and doesn't hold water in 2013, with so much of their market share lost to Apple, and Linux increasing in prominence.

This guy hasn't worked at MS in over a decade and recently published a book about the inner workings. He sounds more like he has an axe to grind with Balmer than any actual insight into the Xbox division of Microsoft. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm certainly weary of anything he says being more than self-promotion

@Aetheldod said:

I maybe just throwing stones but do you think that maybe this has to do with Windows 8 not being all that great etc. after all i suppose they would want more sales on the OS side and the PC uses that OS etc. so in order to sell more OS they have to catter to the PC .... I dunno but that makes sense to me (could be completely wrong though / am ) :P

I think if they want to try to cater more the PC market they will have to make some changes to their business model. Take XBL for example, while Live is free on PC they did at one time try to charge for it. The thing is that most PC gamers use Steam,and I don't see MS really being able to compete with that. Steam has the best deals in the PC market, the biggest community, mod support etc....If MS wants to refocus on PC gaming again they will have to really step up their service and offer something.

But this article is just that insiders opinion, I think what's going to happen is the lines between consoles and PC will become blurred.

@Aetheldod said:

I maybe just throwing stones but do you think that maybe this has to do with Windows 8 not being all that great etc. after all i suppose they would want more sales on the OS side and the PC uses that OS etc. so in order to sell more OS they have to catter to the PC .... I dunno but that makes sense to me (could be completely wrong though / am ) :P

What? Windows 8 is A-OK. I'm using it!

On-topic: I'll believe it when I see it, and that's the most rational, well-reasoned response that I could possibly give.

@believer258: I meant that it aint selling like pancakes ... but then again you are right I have no factual knowledge on the matter , it just seems that way.

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

Isn't it commonly known that consoles take better advantage of hardware for playing video games than a Windows desktop would? Cheap modular PC's are a cool thing that is only starting to come into the spotlight now, but they don't invalidate consoles. I think consoles are pretty damn cool. Also, not only does the Xbox name give Microsoft rivers of money, it also gave them this vast banner-name for their "entertainment suite" services (e.g. Xbox Music replaced Zune).

Maybe the games don't look as good as they do on the PC because the Xbox was made in 2005?

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it. Plus, they are a big enough company that they can have a division that focuses solely on the Xbox brand while also working on PC games and PC gaming in general. It can't be an all or nothing proposition.

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

Yeah there's been talk about it from hirings, job postings, that kind of thing.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511206 - this for example (says there are 4 new IP)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501902 - new IP from Black Tusk Studios

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454987 - that Crytek game RYSE being a next-gen game

They've hired people from Crytek, Irrational, and a few other studios. There are also rumors Remedy is working on Alan Wake 2. We don't really know what Rare and Lionhead are doing. Interested to see what they are showing off at E3 with all this noise.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

Yeah there's been talk about it from hirings, job postings, that kind of thing.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511206 - this for example (says there are 4 new IP)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501902 - new IP from Black Tusk Studios

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454987 - that Crytek game RYSE being a next-gen game

They've hired people from Crytek, Irrational, and a few other studios. There are also rumors Remedy is working on Alan Wake 2. Interested to see what they are showing off at E3 with all this noise.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

Wow...that's pretty good news. Especially if it's from ex-employess from Crytek and Irrational, both are very talented. It should be a good E3 for Xbox.

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

It isn't completely false.

Windows 8 - Not doing great (It's a fine OS however)

Windows Phone - Not doing great

Windows RT / Windows 8 ARM - Received poorly

Surface and Surface Pro - Both received poorly

Office 2013 - Lukewarm reception, only positive thing is the subscription model which isn't even good for single users

Those 5 would be the other "big" projects that Microsoft have.

@Snail said:

Isn't it commonly known that consoles take better advantage of hardware for playing video games than a Windows desktop would?

Yes because they are optimising and squeezing every single thing out of one hardware solution. It'd be impossible to do the same on PC without development time being out of this world because of the many different hardware combinations out there, with consoles the only real differences are hard drives.

This insider is coming off as just another PC fanboy by the tone of his argument, I like PC gaming too but it would be ludicrous for Microsoft to give up on consoles for PC.

@Cold_Wolven said:

This insider is coming off as just another PC fanboy by the tone of his argument, I like PC gaming too but it would be ludicrous for Microsoft to give up on consoles for PC.

Totally.

A huge number of people just don't want to deal with PC gaming. It's gotten easier for sure but it doesn't matter. They just want plug and play.

Yes, it is rather unwise of Microsoft to neglect the PC market, given that their Windows platform is still a relatively dominant player. If they had focused as much attention to the PC Marketplace as they did with their console services they could well have been another Steam.

@Cold_Wolven said:

This insider is coming off as just another PC fanboy by the tone of his argument, I like PC gaming too but it would be ludicrous for Microsoft to give up on consoles for PC.

It sounds more like to me that he lost his job and is still bitter. But he did make some interesting points and gave some good insight into the industry, but I disagree with him about "Xbox not being profitable". That is total BS, they sale a huge amount.

As for PC fanboys, well all fanboys are annoying and consoles have their advantages (and vice versa). I play on all platforms but I prefer consoles.

@ArtisanBreads:

The Xbox is a brand and it is truly the one brand that is actually positive for them. Windows isn't that positive any more. Microsoft isn't making a huge dent in mobile and their tablet isn't doing great either. The Xbox brand, despite it's flaws, is still very strong. Profits aren't everything.

The Entertainment and Devices / Xbox division is probably the only good thing coming out of Microsoft in recent years. Windows 8 adoption is minimal, the tablets (Surface and RT) have been met with a decidedly lukewarm reception, Windows Phone 7 / 8 / 7.5 has been a laughing stock, and the Zune...

If anything, Microsoft should be concentrating on their Xbox brand (Xbox Live Gold services, third party content deals for streaming content, the console as media centre) and Windows.

I think it's funny a lot of you guys are burying Windows.. based on what information? And even if Windows 8 wasn't doing well, that leaves people using... another Windows system. Confusing.

I tried running the witcher 2 on my PC ran like shit, bought it for 360 IT RUNS. Plug in and play in the future. "MOST" people dont want to think about spec and stuff they just want to play games

I hope they don't focus on PC because every time they do it means PC gaming gets fucked over and held back a few years.

@Sooty said:

Office 2013 - Lukewarm reception, only positive thing is the subscription model which isn't even good for single users

I honestly don't get Office 365. Office 2013 should be called Service Pack 2013.

@ArtisanBreads said:

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

People seem to forget that it cost MS $4 billion in losses just to get into the console market.

As for the article, shifting over to being PC heavy would be mass suicide in this mobile age, not to mention the brick wall called Steam that they would run into. Focusing some more on PC gaming is always welcome, but we're not done with consoles......yet. Like Kempin, I too suspect that consoles are on the way out, at least as we know them. The X360 is all apart of Microsoft's Apple-like ecosystem push in the form of home entertainment, another interconnected Windows device with the Windows 8 layout, so for now, consoles are here to stay.

Microsoft has committed to this new direction even in the face of the massive losses that it will take between the usual loss for each console sold, forcing Windows 8 (which has users pining for Windows 7) down our throats, and their adorable little marketshare in mobile phones and tablets which will continue to lose money for the foreseeable future. I completely get what MS is trying to do, they're just executing it the clumsiest way imaginable.

By the way, what are these features of Steam that aren't working in Windows 8? I haven't come across any issues yet and the article didn't list anything specific about them.

@Sooty said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

It isn't completely false.

Windows 8 - Not doing great (It's a fine OS however)

Windows Phone - Not doing great

Windows RT / Windows 8 ARM - Received poorly

Surface and Surface Pro - Both received poorly

Office 2013 - Lukewarm reception, only positive thing is the subscription model which isn't even good for single users

Those 5 would be the other "big" projects that Microsoft have.

@Snail said:

Isn't it commonly known that consoles take better advantage of hardware for playing video games than a Windows desktop would?

Yes because they are optimising and squeezing every single thing out of one hardware solution. It'd be impossible to do the same on PC without development time being out of this world because of the many different hardware combinations out there, with consoles the only real differences are hard drives.

I'm always really curious about the whole "Windows 8 is doing horribly" crowd. Microsoft has sold over 60 million copies since its release in late October, and are on par with Windows 7 sales in the same 90-day timeframe. Steam stats show (click the OS version) that it's pretty much passed OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu, and is just a smidge away from passing XP users. How is it not doing great? Those aren't what I would call bad sales figures for software that's been out for a little over 3 months.

What's with all the "Microsoft insiders" recently? I feel like in the last few weeks every day there was a news story about something some "microsoft insider" said

while i don't think microsoft should 'get out of the console market,' i think they certainly have to bring their a-game with whatever xbox announcement they come up with. call me crazy, but i think they're really going to have to re-pitch and convince people they need a console, let alone theirs versus sony's. hardcore gamers will always be hardcore gamers (and buy whatever comes out), but it's such a different consumer electronics landscape these days (compared to when the 360 came out)- they have a hard sell ahead of them, IMO. couple that with the fact that microsoft hasn't had a 'slam dunk' since windows 7 (which itself was a reaction to vista)- they have their work cut out for them.

It would be silly for Microsoft to change course now after all the work they have put into the xbox brand, but if they had put all that effort into GFWL instead, they would probably be in a much better position now.

Microsoft wants to create a set top complete entertainment system, not just something which plays video games. They won't be getting into the PC manufacturing market, so this is the best way to turn their plans into reality. So far, they've been quite successful down this road. I'm sure the generation of hardware will boost sales of software all around. I think it would be short-sighted at this point to abandon their goal. The real money will be in these set top devices. Sony and Apple, hell even Nintendo know it.

@Butano said:

@Sooty said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

It isn't completely false.

Windows 8 - Not doing great (It's a fine OS however)

Windows Phone - Not doing great

Windows RT / Windows 8 ARM - Received poorly

Surface and Surface Pro - Both received poorly

Office 2013 - Lukewarm reception, only positive thing is the subscription model which isn't even good for single users

Those 5 would be the other "big" projects that Microsoft have.

@Snail said:

Isn't it commonly known that consoles take better advantage of hardware for playing video games than a Windows desktop would?

Yes because they are optimising and squeezing every single thing out of one hardware solution. It'd be impossible to do the same on PC without development time being out of this world because of the many different hardware combinations out there, with consoles the only real differences are hard drives.

I'm always really curious about the whole "Windows 8 is doing horribly" crowd. Microsoft has sold over 60 million copies since its release in late October, and are on par with Windows 7 sales in the same 90-day timeframe. Steam stats show (click the OS version) that it's pretty much passed OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu, and is just a smidge away from passing XP users. How is it not doing great? Those aren't what I would call bad sales figures for software that's been out for a little over 3 months.

I agree. It's been doing optimistically well, especially for an OS that's been this controversial. However, I'm not sure how much of that early market share growth was due to the reduced price that was in effect until January 31st. I've heard that most OS sales come from pack-ins in OEM hardware, though I'm not so sure that is the case with the Steam userbase that is vastly made up of video-game playing folk that upgrade their computers as opposed to buying whole new ones.

@Snail said:

@Butano said:

@Sooty said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

It isn't completely false.

Windows 8 - Not doing great (It's a fine OS however)

Windows Phone - Not doing great

Windows RT / Windows 8 ARM - Received poorly

Surface and Surface Pro - Both received poorly

Office 2013 - Lukewarm reception, only positive thing is the subscription model which isn't even good for single users

Those 5 would be the other "big" projects that Microsoft have.

@Snail said:

Isn't it commonly known that consoles take better advantage of hardware for playing video games than a Windows desktop would?

Yes because they are optimising and squeezing every single thing out of one hardware solution. It'd be impossible to do the same on PC without development time being out of this world because of the many different hardware combinations out there, with consoles the only real differences are hard drives.

I'm always really curious about the whole "Windows 8 is doing horribly" crowd. Microsoft has sold over 60 million copies since its release in late October, and are on par with Windows 7 sales in the same 90-day timeframe. Steam stats show (click the OS version) that it's pretty much passed OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu, and is just a smidge away from passing XP users. How is it not doing great? Those aren't what I would call bad sales figures for software that's been out for a little over 3 months.

I agree. It's been doing optimistically well, especially for an OS that's been this controversial. However, I'm not sure how much of that early market share growth was due to the reduced price that was in effect until January 31st. I've heard that most OS sales come from pack-ins in OEM hardware, though I'm not so sure that is the case with the Steam userbase that is vastly made up of video-game playing folk that upgrade their computers as opposed to buying whole new ones.

You're right about this but with the way they've built in apps they could make a lot of money on that front that they might have "lost" being on sale.

Glad to see two reasonable people though. I'm so confused why so many say Windows 8 is this terrible failure... they have no stats to back that up. And beyond that, from my use of it so far, it seems pretty much exactly like Windows 7 except it runs faster.

I don't think it would hurt Microsoft if they started to publish their games on windows as well.

MS don't make games.

MS can't collect a licence fee on PC games.

"insider" is either an idiot or a weak spoof.

@PenguinDust said:

Microsoft wants to create a set top complete entertainment system, not just something which plays video games. They won't be getting into the PC manufacturing market, so this is the best way to turn their plans into reality. So far, they've been quite successful down this road. I'm sure the generation of hardware will boost sales of software all around. I think it would be short-sighted at this point to abandon their goal. The real money will be in these set top devices. Sony and Apple, hell even Nintendo know it.

Microsoft did drop billions in with Dell to take Dell private again. A good thing about taking Dell private is that Dell is no longer slave to Wall Street's quarterly feeding demands. A possible down side is that Microsoft is now in a position to dictate how it wants debts paid back where they could use that as leverage against Dell to do even more favorable things for Microsoft.

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Snail said:

@Butano said:

@Sooty said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@ShadowMoses900 said:

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Microsoft should try to focus on making actual games instead of sabotaging the windows platform.

While I wouldn't go that far, I don't think they are sabotaging anything. But I do agree with the lack of IP's, I'm bored of Halo and I want something more, but some people are happy with the Xbox's 1st party line up so to each their own.

They are working on 4-5 new IPs right now with some talented people, so I think we should wait for E3 to see what's up from them.

Really? I didn't hear about this. I hope they're cool.

@JasonR86 said:

The Xbox is the only thing positive Microsoft really has going for it.

This is completely false. Xbox is but a part of a huge machine and one that wasn't even profitable for a long ass time.

It isn't completely false.

Windows 8 - Not doing great (It's a fine OS however)

Windows Phone - Not doing great

Windows RT / Windows 8 ARM - Received poorly

Surface and Surface Pro - Both received poorly

Office 2013 - Lukewarm reception, only positive thing is the subscription model which isn't even good for single users

Those 5 would be the other "big" projects that Microsoft have.

@Snail said:

Isn't it commonly known that consoles take better advantage of hardware for playing video games than a Windows desktop would?

Yes because they are optimising and squeezing every single thing out of one hardware solution. It'd be impossible to do the same on PC without development time being out of this world because of the many different hardware combinations out there, with consoles the only real differences are hard drives.

I'm always really curious about the whole "Windows 8 is doing horribly" crowd. Microsoft has sold over 60 million copies since its release in late October, and are on par with Windows 7 sales in the same 90-day timeframe. Steam stats show (click the OS version) that it's pretty much passed OS X, Vista, and Ubuntu, and is just a smidge away from passing XP users. How is it not doing great? Those aren't what I would call bad sales figures for software that's been out for a little over 3 months.

I agree. It's been doing optimistically well, especially for an OS that's been this controversial. However, I'm not sure how much of that early market share growth was due to the reduced price that was in effect until January 31st. I've heard that most OS sales come from pack-ins in OEM hardware, though I'm not so sure that is the case with the Steam userbase that is vastly made up of video-game playing folk that upgrade their computers as opposed to buying whole new ones.

You're right about this but with the way they've built in apps they could make a lot of money on that front that they might have "lost" being on sale.

Glad to see two reasonable people though. I'm so confused why so many say Windows 8 is this terrible failure... they have no stats to back that up. And beyond that, from my use of it so far, it seems pretty much exactly like Windows 7 except it runs faster.

To be fair, I was basing this on tech sites that speak to both its features and sales. But primarily features. And don't get so amazingly offended as to throw out terms like 'unreasonable' because people call Windows 8 a failure or that Microsoft should continue to support Xbox. No one is picking on you. Don't get so uppity.

@JasonR86 said:

To be fair, I was basing this on tech sites that speak to both its features and sales. But primarily features. And don't get so amazingly offended as to throw out terms like 'unreasonable' because people call Windows 8 a failure or that Microsoft should continue to support Xbox. No one is picking on you. Don't get so uppity.

Uppity?

I think talking about sales being bad when they seem to not be is pretty unreasonable.

Feature set? Sure we can talk about that and disagree all day. Windows 8 has been good for me but obviously people disagree.

@JasonR86 said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

@Snail said:

I agree. It's been doing optimistically well, especially for an OS that's been this controversial. However, I'm not sure how much of that early market share growth was due to the reduced price that was in effect until January 31st. I've heard that most OS sales come from pack-ins in OEM hardware, though I'm not so sure that is the case with the Steam userbase that is vastly made up of video-game playing folk that upgrade their computers as opposed to buying whole new ones.

You're right about this but with the way they've built in apps they could make a lot of money on that front that they might have "lost" being on sale.

Glad to see two reasonable people though. I'm so confused why so many say Windows 8 is this terrible failure... they have no stats to back that up. And beyond that, from my use of it so far, it seems pretty much exactly like Windows 7 except it runs faster.

To be fair, I was basing this on tech sites that speak to both its features and sales. But primarily features. And don't get so amazingly offended as to throw out terms like 'unreasonable' because people call Windows 8 a failure or that Microsoft should continue to support Xbox. No one is picking on you. Don't get so uppity.

If anyone's being "uppity" here it's you. No one's picking on you or being aggressive, really. That just felt unnecessary. I also think it's somewhat frustrating to see so many people willing to trash-talk the sales of a product that isn't doing at all badly, especially given how controversial it's been, and that "unreasonable" isn't too far out an adjective to describe that baseless way of thinking.

I also check tech sites often, and I don't think I've seen a single article speak negatively of Windows 8's sales. Sometimes cautiously, I guess, but never in a negative manner.

@ArtisanBreads: @Snail:

I see I'm in a den I shouldn't be in. Sorry duders. Have fun in here.

well that would be a good thing i guess. microsoft needs more IP for their games.

I'd like to see a burgeoning market of C64 type systems that cost more than a game system, less than a desktop gaming PC, but most if what's good of both. $699-799 HTPC that can run full on computer programs, not just roku style apps, with solid pc gaming performance.

XNA made more money for Steam than it did Microsoft. If there was ever a reason why they would need to focus on PC games that's it.

"Compared with the graphic systems you can have on the PC, they’re awful, they’re just awful!"

The pc doesnt have enough games with AAA quality graphics to even make those claims anymore. They havent in about 10 years. Consoles compete just fine with PCs. About the only two games I can think of where a case can be made are Crysis, and The Witcher 2. I really hate people who cry over omg 1080p or textures! They looks just fine 9 times out of 10.