Monkey Island in 2020?

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aiomon

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Edited By aiomon

Adventure games are bad. I’ve played a few of the classics now – Monkey Island, Grim Fandango and I feel like they really haven’t aged well. They should be interactive movies. Fun writing, quirky jokes, games totally defined by their tone, humour, and imagery. The interactivity is where they fall apart for me. The solutions to the puzzles are just so obscure! A modern game like Resident Evil 7 has item puzzles as a core mechanic, much like old adventure games. But unlike RE7s old school counterparts the puzzles do a far better job of presenting logical solutions using contextual clues and the environment hints. In Monkey Island you need random objects at random times for random objectives. It feels like a real crapshoot figuring out what to do, a crapshoot that often ends in frustration.

No Caption Provided

But do old-school adventure games still have a place? As it turns out they do. As I played through the Monkey Island Remaster, I used the tip system extensively. The first time you ask for a hint, it gives you a vague piece of guidance. The second time you ask for a hint, it just tells you what type of item to find. And the third time the game just tells you what and where the item is. With this system in place I was able to figure things out quickly and the moment I got frustrated I could just get the solutions and continue progressing. With this system Monkey Island really did become a beautifully illustrated comedic picture book. From one scene and joke to the next with no challenge at all, and more importantly no frustration at all. And paired with a cold glass of beer was exactly what I needed in this weird isolated time. I’m not sure that old adventure games have a place as gameplay experiences in 2020, but I think as just brainless romps filled with puns they still can be enjoyable experiences.

And damn, the Monkey Island soundtrack just slaps so hard – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fj5pIpjS14&t=225s&ab_channel=Stan%27sPreviouslyOwnedSoundtracks

What do y'all think?

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effache

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The Monkey Island games are some of my favorites of all time, but a lot of that is tied up in the memories I have of watching my mom play them and playing them myself. I think on some level, for most lucas arts adventure games, the solutions to puzzles are supposed to be esoteric and weird as part of the humor. It doesn't always make for a great gameplay experience, especially if you're playing them not having a ton of game experience (like my mom was) or if you're younger (like I was). Even back then we were using a hint system, a pretty popular website that I think (?) still exists but I can't remember the name of.

I played the remake of 1 and loved the hint system they implemented, and purchased the remake of 2 as well but never finished it. Thinking about it now, I feel like I've forgotten enough of those games to go back and play through all of them (or at least the first 4, I didn't ever play the telltale ones).

And yes, the soundtracks are definitely all time greats.

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cikame

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I enjoyed playing that remaster, the hint system really did make it enjoyable.
Maybe it's because i still remember some of the solutions from childhood, but whenever i replay Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis i have a good time and don't really require a guide, nothing too obscure but i'm sure there's some pixel hunty parts of it.
I have an attraction to first person adventure games, i played through Titanic: Adventure out of Time again a couple months ago, that was good except when the next objective isn't clear, and the ending, which you can either replay hundreds of times to try and figure out what to do, or look at a guide like me.
Also Riven which is a beautiful game but is impossible without a guide, i'm surprised anyone ever finished it without one, i still need to play Obduction to see if they've made their solutions less obscure.

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Y2Ken

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One of the reasons Day of the Tentacle remains a personal favourite of mine is that most (most) of the solutions do actually bear out with some decent logic, though there are of course a few joke solutions along the way. I'd probably say similarly about parts of Monkey Island, but the leaps of logic you have to make at times are a fair bit wilder. The hint system definitely makes them a lot more reasonable, for sure.

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whitegreyblack

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Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer made some of my favorite adventure games, but personally I have always found their puzzle logic to be inscrutable. (this includes their more modern output, as well) Without nostalgic memories of the puzzles they can be pretty tough to play for the first time in 2020.

I do think the remasters with the hint systems make the games wonderful even by modern standards, and I have always played adventure games with the UHS (Universal Hint System) open in a second monitor without one single pang of remorse on looking something up if I can not figure it out on my own and wish to just move forward to see more story.

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wollywoo

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#5  Edited By wollywoo

The art and the humor have aged fairly well in these, but the puzzles not so much. Without hints you have to be willing to spend a *long* time wandering around trying different things. That said, it is very rewarding when you do complete a puzzle - and the solutions themselves are often some of the funniest things in the game. I think with a good, reactive hint system these games are very worthwhile. But I think it's much more rewarding to spend a decent amount of time bashing your head against the puzzles before getting a hint.

My favorite is Curse of Monkey Island, but that one has not been remade and probably requires the SCUMM emulator. But the art is fantastic and it's by far the funniest. I'd kill for an HD remaster.

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Onemanarmyy

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#6  Edited By Onemanarmyy

Love the vibe of Monkey Island. Funnily enough i first played Escape From Monkey Island 4 on PC, which is widely seen as the worst Monkey Island. I believe it had tank controls and straight up used the home ,end, pg up and pg down keys without letting people remap buttons. But it still has a great vibe and some funny story bits that made me appreciate it. Afterwards i had all these other games in the series left to play. Probably a blessing in disguise i stumbled on the worst one first. Kinda made me have a soft spot for all of them.

I always felt that Sea of Thieves should've gotten the Monkey Island licence, because it shares that same graphical style with the water painted clouds and that breezy comedic vibe. It just lacks character, while Monkey Island has that aspect locked down. I think you could create some awesome comedic bits if it was less of a multiplayer sandbox and had an entire questline featuring these cool characters.

I still enjoy adventure games because it's greatly relaxing and one of the few game genre's where whimsy and comedy is prevalent. And it turns out that no matter the budget, if you have a decent story to tell , you can make a good game. For those that are new to the genre and can't stand the out-of-the-box thinking you sometimes have to do with adventure games, i'd recommend Kelvin & The Infamous machine. The next big thing is also quite good.

But at the same time there's no shame in having a walkthrough nearby for these kind of games. Often the joke that you managed to combine all these items to behave like a more standard tool for the job is half the enjoyment and not necessarily figuring out yourself how exactly you create a tool from the crap in your inventory. Or realize that there's a key item half-hidden behind a leaf somewhere. I remember having a binder full of walkthroughs for these games and if that helps you to get through the story it's totally worth it. I will also say that adventure games are great youtube watches. After having a hard time getting Blade Runner to play (before it was re-released) i decided to give up and watch it all the way through. Totally worthwhile. Have been doing the same with Police & Space Quest and the older Tex Murphy games.

For those that want to stray from the obvious classics and are not allergic to early 3d, i recommend Gabriel Knight 3. Straight up one of my favorite adventure games and more people should experience that lovely adventure feel of uncovering mysteries in rural France. I was also surprised that when i played through the game after a decade i was pretty much flying through the first half of the game without ever getting stuck.

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Captain_Insano

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I've gotten hard back into kitschy piratey themed stuff lately

I've been trying out Sea of Thieves and have got a board game called Forgotten Waters which I'm digging (and currently backing other pirate themed board game Kickstarters like Dead Reckoning and Plunderous)

Monkey Island is still in my top 5 games of all time, simply because of how much of an impression it made on me. I actually don't know how it holds up in 2020 because, while I do replay them every year, I know EXACTLY what to do and my playthroughs now are 100% pure nostalgia, so I don't have the perspective on what it is like

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SpunkyHePanda

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Yes please. You don't hear a lot about the Telltale series these days, but I thought it was pretty great and really wished they had done more seasons. Give me a traditional game or a more modern take, whatever, just give me more Monkey Island.

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norm9

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#11  Edited By norm9

@cikame said:

i still need to play Obduction to see if they've made their solutions less obscure.

Lordy, the minute I got to the part where you need to know base 4 and the structure of how to decipher it (near the beginning), I nope'd out. I bashed my head against the wall for about an hour or so, gave up, and asked the internet to explain base 4. After getting an explanation, still didn't understand it in the context of the dots and the connecting, and gave up again. Was able to brute force some sort of progress on the cash register, but not knowing why it was working did a number on my confidence. I was thinking to myself, this was definitely made by the people that made Myst (funnily enough, I beat that as a little kid without any help since it was in the time before the internet at large).

More on topic, love Monkey Island. Need to play the sequel. Have it downloaded on xbox but never got around to it.

The Telltale games are the next evolution of those games. I tried Back to the Future but hated it though.

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Ulfhedinn

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@aiomon said:

Adventure games are bad.

Hook, line and sinker.

Talking about hint system nowadays, I do agree it helps things out (back when I first played Monkey Island 1 & 2 on Amiga 500, we used written walkthroughs in gaming magazines) but as long as you have an achievement for completing the game without any hints I'm good.

Adventure games are about puzzles and finding the solution. Some are rather easy to finish (Flight of the Amazon Queen, Monkey Island 1) and some are notorious, requiring either thinking outside the box or something done at the certain point in time (Simon the Sorcerer, Grim Fandango)

That's why it's a niche category of games and not popular in current game culture. We're currently in instant gratification with pull the trigger philosophy.

I replayed Monkey Island 1 & 2 Remastered editions and had a blast but mostly due to all the new voiceover. Back in the days we kids actually had to read stuff.

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aznan

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I like that more modern adventure games, like The Book of Unwritten Tales, often, instead of a hint system that tell you what to do, have a button which highlights every interactable on screen. The puzzles become a lot more manageable if you're limited in your options, rather than you always having to second-guess yourself if you missed some item in a heap of pixels somewhere.

That said, Monkey Island was still a ton of fun.

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I think an element that helped palate some of the weirder logic of those games was that they had no fail state. Even if you tried something stupid or that would get you killed (talk to Killer Robot), you were only shown a quippy "I don't think that is a good idea" line or, at worst, a funny cutscene and sent back to the beginning of the puzzle. You were always sure that the right answer was among the interactions available to you at the time. As such, "going to every available location and trying every action on every object" was a viable (if sometimes tedious) strategy to finish the game. You were never locked of advancing because you didn't picked up the severed hand 5 hours and 3 planets ago.

That was one of the reasons why I always enjoyed the LucasArt games (or similar) more than the Sierra games...

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Onemanarmyy

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@hermes: Yeah i didn't even bother trying to play the Sierra games because of that. For some reason these games also often focus on dodging real time attacks by spamming the mouse button or finding the exact spot on screen where you are 'hidden' from the patrolling guard.

Reminds me of that time when Day9 attempted to play Space Quest 4 with friends and they immediatly got stuck in the first area. From starting the game to dying in 2 min and 20 seconds.

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sparky_buzzsaw

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I read through "adventure games are bad" and then dropkicked my computer into a volcano. PSA: don't dropkick your computer into a volcano. It's very costly and a long walk up a hill.

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Teddie

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Point and Click games are probably the genre I've tried the hardest to love, because the kind of writing and art and exploration they revel in are all things that are right up my alley. Even the obscure puzzle stuff didn't bother me so much because I genuinely enjoy trying to think in those esoteric ways to solve problems.

But for me they always break down to methodically exhausting every dialogue option with a character, then exhausting every item on every intractable, because you absolutely can't affordto miss anything in these games, and then I feel like I'm not so much playing a game as performing chores. So even when I absolutely adore everything about the narrative, I don't feel like my input is really necessary and wind up detaching and falling off 'em, and wishing I could experience them in book form or something instead.

...God I wish I could've finished The Longest Journey.

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Onemanarmyy

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#18  Edited By Onemanarmyy

@teddie: Yeah you're not wrong there. These games generally have 1 path forwards and you probably need to squeeze every written line out the game to make your way through the game. So yeah you're just there to figure out what the gamedev wants you to do, push the levers and make the game progress.

That said, for me i'm way more likely to boot up a game that gives me an enjoyable story to dive into, one that comes with all the audiovisual bells & whistles of a game, instead of digging up a book to scratch that story-itch. I might even feel a bit smart if i figure out a puzzle and feel more drawn into the story if this world and characters is presented well and oozes style or whimsey. If that's the case, i even WANT to make sure that i see every written word that's in the game. The barrier to pick up a book is just much larger for me personally.

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#19  Edited By apewins

RE 7 is the one Resident Evil game which I haven't played, but I'm shocked that anyone thinks that the series has good puzzle design. When you have a hexagonal hole in the wall and you have a hexagonal crank in your hand, it's not hard to figure out what to do. Actually this is one of the things I'm frustrated about in modern games is that the solutions to the puzzles are immediately obvious and frequently the item you need for the puzzle is even in the same room.

Having said that, Monkey Island 1 is probably one of the hardest adventure games out there, it was tough even at the time of release. I think adventure games work at their best when they're open-ended so that if you can't figure out a puzzle, you can always go and do something else, and frequently the solution comes to mind when you're not even thinking about it.

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ajamafalous

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The Telltale series is very good.

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imunbeatable80

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I love the monkey island series and old school adventure games, but sadly i think they are of a certain time and place.

When monkey island came out people were more likely to only buy 1 game every so often to play rather than always have a million games a click away. You could afford to get stuck at a puzzle for days, take time to stop and digest the ask, and "try everything on everything." Now that is not a defense of some of the puzzles but an adventure game like monkey island was supposed to last someone a week or a month and the padding was time spent thinking on the puzzle.

While i can now finish a monkey island game in hours rather then days, that was probably not the intention of the developers, and you certainly would have felt cheated in beating a game with very minor replayability in hours for $60.

The problem with adventure games now, are actually because of the availabilty to look up puzzles after 10 minutes of frustration, so puzzles are either designed archaic that you need to look them up, or a game has so many mediocre puzzles.

To replay these games now and enjoy them, i almost feel you have to enter that same mindset and prevent yourself from looking at a walkthrough as long as possible.

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SethMode

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@wollywoo said:

The art and the humor have aged fairly well in these, but the puzzles not so much. Without hints you have to be willing to spend a *long* time wandering around trying different things. That said, it is very rewarding when you do complete a puzzle - and the solutions themselves are often some of the funniest things in the game. I think with a good, reactive hint system these games are very worthwhile. But I think it's much more rewarding to spend a decent amount of time bashing your head against the puzzles before getting a hint.

My favorite is Curse of Monkey Island, but that one has not been remade and probably requires the SCUMM emulator. But the art is fantastic and it's by far the funniest. I'd kill for an HD remaster.

I just wanted to chime in that my favorite is also Curse, and that Murray is one of my favorite characters ever, and perhaps my favorite sidekick ever.

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aiomon

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@wollywoo said:

T That said, it is very rewarding when you do complete a puzzle - and the solutions themselves are often some of the funniest things in the game.

I think this is a really interesting point actually. Like it's true the solutions are often jokes themselves. I wonder if using hints sort of takes away from the joke itself, or something like that.