Nintendo has won this generation well beyond console sales.

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oldschool

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Edited By oldschool
Why Nintendo not only won this generation for console sales, but why it won much, much more.


No Caption Provided
It is clearly obvious to all and sundry that this generation is over.  It has been won.  There is virtually zero chance that either the PS3 or 360 will capture enough market share to catch the Nintendo Wii.  But, there is more to the story as to why Nintendo has won this generation, besides the sales.

No Caption Provided
What the hell is this motion crap?
When Nintendo came out with the Wiimote, they were not taken seriously by the gaming 'purists'.  In fact they were outright ridiculed.  "A toy" they cried.  "It will never catch on" they continued.  Along with the jokes about the name of the console, they futher attempted to marginalise the Wii. 

Sony were a little concerned about the possibility of the Wii catching on with its motion controller.  They quickly dumped their Batterang controller and even more quickly, added motion control.  Monkey see - momkey do.





No Caption Provided
The Wii is not a competitor to the PS3 & Wii.
So many times it was told - the Wii is not in competition with the bigger and better HD consoles.  Of course, this was the catch-cry when it became obvious that the Wii was becoming a sales sensation.  Microsoft would boast that they were winning theconsole sales as the Wii didn't really count.

Then there was the constant cry of "fad" and how that fad would suddenly die.  In fact, they held on to that mantra for quite a while, but it seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary.





No Caption Provided
Sales apparently equal profit.
As it became painfully obvious to all, the Wii was commanding massive sales, not just of its console, but the games as well.  With both Microsoft and Sony losing money on their consoles, their respective marketing strategies had to be revisited.  That casual market had to be syphoned a little in their direction.  

Microsoft kicked in with their much cheaper Arcade console.  Surely the Wii sold more because it was cheaper?  Make the 360 cheaper than the Wii, throw in some Lips and Scene It and surely gamers would choose a HD 360?  Apparently not.  So console cost wasn't the problem it seems.

Sony just pushed Singstar and hoped for the best.  It didn't work.

No Caption Provided
Motion control is the future.
This is where Nintendo wins far more than the console sales race.  When Microsoft showed us Natal and Sony kicked in with Ball-in-a-cup, they had given up - total capitulation.  Yet again Nintendo had shown the way, only to be followed.  No longer were Nintendo and their little Wii not a competitior, they were THE competitor and had to be beaten at their own game.





No Caption Provided
Even more remarkable is the fanbiy types who constantly derided the Wiimote and clung tightly to their traditional controller (which owes everything to Nintendo as well) like a fat cop holds on to his doughnut.  They now talk about the possibilities that this technology will bring to their respective consoles.  With rose tinted glasses firmly embedded on their faces, they truly espouse the theory that it could work with hardcore games.  Truly a remarkable quantum leap.  Will they accept and acknowledge that Nintendo got it right?  Not likely.  No, Nintendo screwed it all up apparently and that is why Microdoft and Sony must come in and do it right.

If Nintendo had failed in its marketing, then none of this would be happening.  It is the only reason for the change.  It shows the value and absolutely critical nature of needing a strong and innovative 3rd player in the market.  Without Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony would cause the games market to wither and die on the vine.


This catch-up is all about positioning for the next generation.
Forget this generation.  It is all over.  Sony may or may not have a better motion controller.  What does it matter?  How will they market it?  How much will it cost?  It is an additional peripheral, so it has be marketed accordingly.  What exactly is Sony's demographic now?  They are very expensive and many, many parents have already settled for a Wii as a family console.  Can Sony get the price low enough to be appealing to the right demographic?

So many questions and all open to what the market will do and react to any Sony marketing push.

What of price though?  Sony are already making a loss on each console.  In a recession, can they risk a bigger loss?  Even if they do, Nintendo make a profit on every console and have a much greater margin for a significant price reduction if they choose.  This will negate anything Sony try.  Who is to also say that Nintendo don't release a HD Wii upgrade next year and level the playing field?  I doubt that myself.

As for Microsoft, they have delivered a very good Eyetoy it seems.  How will they market it?  No controller at all comes with may limitations in gaming.  Sure, it would work in party games, but what about a serious game?  Who really wants to be pretending to be a soldier in COD 5?  Are you going to set up the loungeroom to pretend you are 5  again, playing war games?  I doubt it.  This has problems written all over it.  It is all good and stuff to have the technology, but how you apply it matters.

One last factor is the Nintendo Magic factor.  They make great games and have brilliant and recognised characters.  People want them.  they love them.  It isn't just the Wiimote selling the Wii, it is the classic franchises.  Sony and Microsoft will have difficulty pushing their own characters.  Maybe Halo Kart and Metal Gear Party would sell, but I kind of doubt it.

This is all about positioning as I said.  They are clearing the decks making room for their consoles to be motion controllable out of the box and marketed that way from the beginning.  Of course, the marketing will look familiar.  After all, Nintendo did it.

The world thanks Nintendo, even if the haters won't.

All comments here are simply my opinion.  They are based on a lifelong gaming habit that dates back to 1974.  If you don't agree, that is your right - it isn't personal.
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oldschool

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#1  Edited By oldschool
Why Nintendo not only won this generation for console sales, but why it won much, much more.


No Caption Provided
It is clearly obvious to all and sundry that this generation is over.  It has been won.  There is virtually zero chance that either the PS3 or 360 will capture enough market share to catch the Nintendo Wii.  But, there is more to the story as to why Nintendo has won this generation, besides the sales.

No Caption Provided
What the hell is this motion crap?
When Nintendo came out with the Wiimote, they were not taken seriously by the gaming 'purists'.  In fact they were outright ridiculed.  "A toy" they cried.  "It will never catch on" they continued.  Along with the jokes about the name of the console, they futher attempted to marginalise the Wii. 

Sony were a little concerned about the possibility of the Wii catching on with its motion controller.  They quickly dumped their Batterang controller and even more quickly, added motion control.  Monkey see - momkey do.





No Caption Provided
The Wii is not a competitor to the PS3 & Wii.
So many times it was told - the Wii is not in competition with the bigger and better HD consoles.  Of course, this was the catch-cry when it became obvious that the Wii was becoming a sales sensation.  Microsoft would boast that they were winning theconsole sales as the Wii didn't really count.

Then there was the constant cry of "fad" and how that fad would suddenly die.  In fact, they held on to that mantra for quite a while, but it seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary.





No Caption Provided
Sales apparently equal profit.
As it became painfully obvious to all, the Wii was commanding massive sales, not just of its console, but the games as well.  With both Microsoft and Sony losing money on their consoles, their respective marketing strategies had to be revisited.  That casual market had to be syphoned a little in their direction.  

Microsoft kicked in with their much cheaper Arcade console.  Surely the Wii sold more because it was cheaper?  Make the 360 cheaper than the Wii, throw in some Lips and Scene It and surely gamers would choose a HD 360?  Apparently not.  So console cost wasn't the problem it seems.

Sony just pushed Singstar and hoped for the best.  It didn't work.

No Caption Provided
Motion control is the future.
This is where Nintendo wins far more than the console sales race.  When Microsoft showed us Natal and Sony kicked in with Ball-in-a-cup, they had given up - total capitulation.  Yet again Nintendo had shown the way, only to be followed.  No longer were Nintendo and their little Wii not a competitior, they were THE competitor and had to be beaten at their own game.





No Caption Provided
Even more remarkable is the fanbiy types who constantly derided the Wiimote and clung tightly to their traditional controller (which owes everything to Nintendo as well) like a fat cop holds on to his doughnut.  They now talk about the possibilities that this technology will bring to their respective consoles.  With rose tinted glasses firmly embedded on their faces, they truly espouse the theory that it could work with hardcore games.  Truly a remarkable quantum leap.  Will they accept and acknowledge that Nintendo got it right?  Not likely.  No, Nintendo screwed it all up apparently and that is why Microdoft and Sony must come in and do it right.

If Nintendo had failed in its marketing, then none of this would be happening.  It is the only reason for the change.  It shows the value and absolutely critical nature of needing a strong and innovative 3rd player in the market.  Without Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony would cause the games market to wither and die on the vine.


This catch-up is all about positioning for the next generation.
Forget this generation.  It is all over.  Sony may or may not have a better motion controller.  What does it matter?  How will they market it?  How much will it cost?  It is an additional peripheral, so it has be marketed accordingly.  What exactly is Sony's demographic now?  They are very expensive and many, many parents have already settled for a Wii as a family console.  Can Sony get the price low enough to be appealing to the right demographic?

So many questions and all open to what the market will do and react to any Sony marketing push.

What of price though?  Sony are already making a loss on each console.  In a recession, can they risk a bigger loss?  Even if they do, Nintendo make a profit on every console and have a much greater margin for a significant price reduction if they choose.  This will negate anything Sony try.  Who is to also say that Nintendo don't release a HD Wii upgrade next year and level the playing field?  I doubt that myself.

As for Microsoft, they have delivered a very good Eyetoy it seems.  How will they market it?  No controller at all comes with may limitations in gaming.  Sure, it would work in party games, but what about a serious game?  Who really wants to be pretending to be a soldier in COD 5?  Are you going to set up the loungeroom to pretend you are 5  again, playing war games?  I doubt it.  This has problems written all over it.  It is all good and stuff to have the technology, but how you apply it matters.

One last factor is the Nintendo Magic factor.  They make great games and have brilliant and recognised characters.  People want them.  they love them.  It isn't just the Wiimote selling the Wii, it is the classic franchises.  Sony and Microsoft will have difficulty pushing their own characters.  Maybe Halo Kart and Metal Gear Party would sell, but I kind of doubt it.

This is all about positioning as I said.  They are clearing the decks making room for their consoles to be motion controllable out of the box and marketed that way from the beginning.  Of course, the marketing will look familiar.  After all, Nintendo did it.

The world thanks Nintendo, even if the haters won't.

All comments here are simply my opinion.  They are based on a lifelong gaming habit that dates back to 1974.  If you don't agree, that is your right - it isn't personal.
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luce

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#2  Edited By luce

Ok.

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Teh_Eel

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#3  Edited By Teh_Eel

Nintendo have won this generation on Hardware sales, though in software there have a alot to catch up with as the number of quality tittles is lower than that of the PS3 and 360. I can see Nintendo having probelms with there next home Console. The casaul/family gamer will not feel the need to upgrade and at that point both Sony and Microsoft will have there motion techonolgies built in to there new system.

The core gamers have already turned on Nintendo and there fanbase of core games has grown smaller. Unless there start producing great 1st party games that appeal to the core gamer and gain the support of 3rd parties that make proper games for the Wii, they are going to have trouble convicing the core audience to take there next home Console serioulsy.

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oldschool

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#4  Edited By oldschool
@Teh_Eel said:
" Nintendo have won this generation on Hardware sales, though in software there have a alot to catch up with as the number of quality tittles is lower than that of the PS3 and 360. I can see Nintendo having probelms with there next home Console. The casaul/family gamer will not feel the need to upgrade and at that point both Sony and Microsoft will have there motion techonolgies built in to there new system.The core gamers have already turned on Nintendo and there fanbase of core games has grown smaller. Unless there start producing great 1st party games that appeal to the core gamer and gain the support of 3rd parties that make proper games for the Wii, they are going to have trouble convicing the core audience to take there next home Console serioulsy. "
I would agree that Nintendo has made the generation very hard for themselves.  To get that sort of sales all over again will not come easily.  It will also be interesting to see what happens with a name.  They have so much collateral in the Wii brand, but Nintendo have a hsitory of name change.

I think there will be a core denographic for the classic franchises for a long time to come.  
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TheFreeMan

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#5  Edited By TheFreeMan

Interesting read.

I'm expecting this thread to devolve very quickly, though.

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get2sammyb

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#6  Edited By get2sammyb

Nintendo may have won the generation. But as a lifetime Nintendo fan, I ended up being so isolated I bought a Playstation console - something I never thought I'd do in the past. The results have very much shaped the type of gamer I am.

I know people like to rat on Sony, and that's fine, but for me, as a newcomer to the Playstation entirely, they've opened my eyes. I no longer see Nintendo as the chief innovater I once thought they were. They were on a pedestal in my eyes, but I'm starting to notice a lot of nuances elsewhere that show Nintendo in a different light.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo still. Their philosophy. Their games. I love it all. But ever since I practically was forced to buy a Playstation 3 because Nintendo just didn't satisfy my personal needs - they've moved down a notch. And in that time, Sony have just raised the bar time after time.

So for me, for my personal gaming tastes and how Sony have entirely converted me, Nintendo did not win this generation -- even if they did create the best game of it in Super Mario Galaxy.

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#7  Edited By Alex_Murphy

It's just a gamecube with motion controls.
Everybody I know that has a Wii has like 4 games for it and they never play it.

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#8  Edited By Teh_Eel
@oldschool: I agree that there will always be a core audience for Nintendo's classic franchises but the way things are going atm I cant see it being big enough to support there next console and Nintendo will have to make a choice of focusing more on the core auidence to win trust back or relaying even more heavly on the casual audience to keep them on top.
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meteora

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#9  Edited By meteora

Yeah, admittedly Nintendo won this generation for introducing the whole new trend and fad in motion control gaming that may see the day of light in the next gen or sometime in the future. Though their next console is of question. They might decide to stick closely to the Wii and see little need for change. *shrugs*

Wii HD anyone?

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oldschool

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#10  Edited By oldschool
@get2sammyb said:
" Nintendo may have won the generation. But as a lifetime Nintendo fan, I ended up being so isolated I bought a Playstation console - something I never thought I'd do in the past. The results have very much shaped the type of gamer I am.I know people like to rat on Sony, and that's fine, but for me, as a newcomer to the Playstation entirely, they've opened my eyes. I no longer see Nintendo as the chief innovater I once thought they were. They were on a pedestal in my eyes, but I'm starting to notice a lot of nuances elsewhere that show Nintendo in a different light.Now don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo still. Their philosophy. Their games. I love it all. But ever since I practically was forced to buy a Playstation 3 because Nintendo just didn't satisfy my personal needs - they've moved down a notch. And in that time, Sony have just raised the bar time after time.So for me, for my personal gaming tastes and how Sony have entirely converted me, Nintendo did not win this generation -- even if they did create the best game of it in Super Mario Galaxy. "
We all change with time Sammy.  Denying a change in who you are is stupid.  Our tastes evolve.  Your points are entirely valid for you as made clear by your post.

What I will disgree on though is that Nintendo have won this generation.  Personal opinion aside, the sales are just there for all to see.  Compounding that is the fact (and the main point of the thread) that Sony and Microsoft have completly capitulated and accepted that Nintendo is a competitor and are copying them.  Sure, they are still doing the stuff they have always done well, but they have moved anyway.  
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Ineedaname

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#11  Edited By Ineedaname
@Alex_Murphy: I can't help but agree I have exactly 4 games, and never play it.

It's won on sales but not on games imo.
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oldschool

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#12  Edited By oldschool
@Teh_Eel said:
" @oldschool: I agree that there will always be a core audience for Nintendo's classic franchises but the way things are going atm I cant see it being big enough to support there next console and Nintendo will have to make a choice of focusing more on the core auidence to win trust back or relaying even more heavly on the casual audience to keep them on top. "
One point that comes to mind though is that Nintendo still succeeded with the Gamecube.  They sold 22 million of them and made a profit.  This generation is a spike, true, but they can still survive and be profitable with a smaller base.  That base sould likely always be sufficient to keep them going.  I think Nintendo deserters is a myth.  There is a whole new generation coming though loving the characters that will naturally replace any losses.
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Al3xand3r

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#13  Edited By Al3xand3r

So, buy some more games? Nobody can play 4 forever. Nintendo had most of the interesting actually playable games this E3 (both Wii and DS) and there's tons of already released games to play, stuff like Little King's Story which earned surprisingly fantastic scores across almost all publications. So, in short, keep that "no gaemz" bullshit to yourself. Feel free to remain an ignoramus, but at least don't spread it around.

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oldschool

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#14  Edited By oldschool
@Ineedaname said:
" @Alex_Murphy: I can't help but agree I have exactly 4 games, and never play it.It's won on sales but not on games imo. "
One person and an anectdote does not make a market survey.  I have 60+ games and play many of them on a regular basis.

On the other hand, I have 14 games for my 360 and play only 2 of them (Bioshock & Eternal Sonata).  I wouldn't be making statements about the vialbility of the 360 based on that though.
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zagzagovich

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#15  Edited By zagzagovich

sure whatevers.

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1_879_116_9420

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#16  Edited By 1_879_116_9420

It would be truly sad if this was in fact a fan service and you're not some extreme focus group teen hired by the marketing group hired by Nintendo for viral public relations.

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Al3xand3r

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#17  Edited By Al3xand3r

Excellent counterpoint. Oldschool's opinion debunked! Pack your bags and go home dude...

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#18  Edited By flaminghobo

Nintendo didn't win my gaming generation this time around, Microsoft did.

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#19  Edited By Teh_Eel
@oldschool: I cant see the casual auidence starting to replace Nintendo's fanbase. The casual auidence has no loyalty they will go to who ever has the best tech for them and with Mircosoft and Sony stepping on to Nintendo's turf with more advanced tech that will be incorparted in to there next systems which will eat in to Nintendo's domiance of the casual market.

As for Nintendo deserters being a myth we have the perfect example in this thread of Sammyb who I think represents a large amount of Nintendo's core auidence that has been forced to get there gaming from different consoles due to the Wii of not offering enough core games to warrent just having the Wii and no other console. And when it comes to the next generation of Consoles these fans could have seconds thought of buying whatever Nintendo bring out next and could just stick with Sony/microsoft.
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#20  Edited By penguindust

I agree with most of the points you listed above.  I certainly believe that Nintendo has charted a strong aspect of the direction of video games for years to come.  Their innovative controls and personalized Miis are elements that we will see in gaming for quite some time.  Also, Nintendo's pursuit of a wider audience than just the "core" has opened up new revenue streams to developers and manufacturers.   In doing so, Nintendo has increased acceptance of video gaming as a not-just-for-dorks hobby.  I believe these advancements will positively influence all levels of gaming, despite the lamentations of doomsayers.  For all practical purposes, Nintendo has won this generation's race.  But, for all the points you listed above, it doesn't end there for the competition.  Nintendo's success has forced Microsoft and Sony to make advancements that they might have been reluctant to do.  Also, it has forced them to envision better technologies and apply them to a wider demographic.  The same thing happened last generation thanks to Microsoft's successful implementation of Xbox Live.  No one is going to say that Microsoft invented online console play, but their success prompted Sony and even Nintendo to adopt some form of online contectivity. And, now Nintendo's success has urged thier competition to adapt in ways they might not have predicted.  I think we are heading into a remarkable time for interative entertainment.  I've been fortunate enough to see the history of video gaming unfold before my eyes.  I cut my teeth on arcade machines in 1977 on the boardwalks of the Jersey shore, and have been following  gaming's development since.  Never before have I been filled with this much wonder and awe at what the possibilities are for the future.  Don't listen to the cynics, this is a fantastic time to be a gamer. 

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Ineedaname

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#21  Edited By Ineedaname
@oldschool: Well as you said it's an opinion, I can't load up my Wii and then go online and play a decent shooter, I did state in my opinion I'll rephrase what I said, previously being a nintento fan myself, the first console I got was the wii, then I quickly sensed that what was coming out on the console wasn't for me at all, so I bought a PS3 followed by a 360, I don't care for the innovation or either Sony's or Microsoft's attempts to follow Nintendo in that market, but I do care for the games that both consoles have which I prefer and find more playable.

"One last factor is the Nintendo Magic factor.  They make great games and have brilliant and recognised characters."
Maybe so, but that's part of the reason I'm put of from Nintendo games, the characters are so recognised and sure they do sell, but I just get bored of the same old adventures, with the same characters, sure the games change style but to me most of them ultimately feel like the game.
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oldschool

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#22  Edited By oldschool
@Teh_Eel said:
" @oldschool: I cant see the casual auidence starting to replace Nintendo's fanbase. The casual auidence has no loyalty they will go to who ever has the best tech for them and with Mircosoft and Sony stepping on to Nintendo's turf with more advanced tech that will be incorparted in to there next systems which will eat in to Nintendo's domiance of the casual market.As for Nintendo deserters being a myth we have the perfect example in this thread of Sammyb who I think represents a large amount of Nintendo's core auidence that has been forced to get there gaming from different consoles due to the Wii of not offering enough core games to warrent just having the Wii and no offer console. And when it comes to the next generation of Consoles these fans could have seconds thought of buying whatever Nintendo bring out next and could just stick with Sony/microsoft. "
Whilst I don't deny the validity of your view on that, I think a lot of the casual Wii audience are in fact returning Nintendo users from last decade.  They now have kids themselves.  On top of buying the casual and healthy games for themselves, they are getting the classic Nintendo games for the kids.  It is those kids who are the new generation.  The fact that Mario Kart wold sell 16 million copies is proof enough of that for me.  At the current rate, the sales of Mario Kart will exceed the sales of the Gamecube console (22 million).  There are many more Nintendo players now than ever before.

On the console front though, I think the market has matured in the sense that more and more people have multiple consoles.  I had all last gen and 2 this gen (and the PS3 when the price is low enough).  Many more gamers are like that.  In the end, the console isn't the expensive part of gaming, the games are.  I spent $400 on 2 Gamecubes, yet with 110 games, I spent about $5,000 on the games.  Having multiple consoles doesn't really make gaming much more expensive as you share the love.  Nintendo will still the second console for many, and in many cases, the first.
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#23  Edited By Claude

I adore my Wii that's for sure. I like my Xbox 360 and PC, but the Wii did something special for me. It gave me an aternative to my dual analog mouse driven games and I like deversity. I'm happy for Nintendo, they could have easily failed and went the way of Sega. Long live fun... long live games.

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oldschool

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#24  Edited By oldschool
@1_879_116_9420 said:
" It would be truly sad if this was in fact a fan service and you're not some extreme focus group teen hired by the marketing group hired by Nintendo for viral public relations. "
I wish I was a teen, but sadly, the name oldschool isn't just a name.  I am 48 years old.  If I was a viral public relations person, then my 2000 posts on many subjects is probably overkill.

@FlamingHobo said:
" Nintendo didn't win my gaming generation this time around, Microsoft did. "
It isn't about the personal position.  Sales count and the opposition following is a win.

@Teh_Eel said:
" @oldschool: I cant see the casual auidence starting to replace Nintendo's fanbase. The casual auidence has no loyalty they will go to who ever has the best tech for them and with Mircosoft and Sony stepping on to Nintendo's turf with more advanced tech that will be incorparted in to there next systems which will eat in to Nintendo's domiance of the casual market.As for Nintendo deserters being a myth we have the perfect example in this thread of Sammyb who I think represents a large amount of Nintendo's core auidence that has been forced to get there gaming from different consoles due to the Wii of not offering enough core games to warrent just having the Wii and no other console. And when it comes to the next generation of Consoles these fans could have seconds thought of buying whatever Nintendo bring out next and could just stick with Sony/microsoft. "
That is my point about the motion controls being more about the next generation, not the current one.  I would be a fool to predict Nintendo winning the next one.  In fact, I doubt they will.  Sony and Microsoft will mirror the work done by Nintendo and have much more mone to do it with.
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#25  Edited By Dalai

The console wars has basically gone down to which console has the most sales... and yes, Nintendo has essentially won and will likely retain their lead.  Plus, now Sony and Microsoft are trying to jump on the motion control bandwagon wtih Natal and the ball-on-a-stick and that's obviously a reaction to Nintendo's success with that technology.

Now of course if you ask your typical hardcore gamer who won, they would probably say Microsoft because those are the types of games they like, but that's more of an individual opinion on who won in your minds.  From an industry standpoint, Nintendo won.  Like it or not, that's happened.

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oldschool

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#26  Edited By oldschool
@PenguinDust said:
" I agree with most of the points you listed above.  I certainly believe that Nintendo has charted a strong aspect of the direction of video games for years to come.  Their innovative controls and personalized Miis are elements that we will see in gaming for quite some time.  Also, Nintendo's pursuit of a wider audience than just the "core" has opened up new revenue streams to developers and manufacturers.   In doing so, Nintendo has increased acceptance of video gaming as a not-just-for-dorks hobby.  I believe these advancements will positively influence all levels of gaming, despite the lamentations of doomsayers.  For all practical purposes, Nintendo has won this generation's race.  But, for all the points you listed above, it doesn't end there for the competition.  Nintendo's success has forced Microsoft and Sony to make advancements that they might have been reluctant to do.  Also, it has forced them to envision better technologies and apply them to a wider demographic.  The same thing happened last generation thanks to Microsoft's successful implementation of Xbox Live.  No one is going to say that Microsoft invented online console play, but their success prompted Sony and even Nintendo to adopt some form of online contectivity. And, now Nintendo's success has urged thier competition to adapt in ways they might not have predicted.  I think we are heading into a remarkable time for interative entertainment.  I've been fortunate enough to see the history of video gaming unfold before my eyes.  I cut my teeth on arcade machines in 1977 on the boardwalks of the Jersey shore, and have been following  gaming's development since.  Never before have I been filled with this much wonder and awe at what the possibilities are for the future.  Don't listen to the cynics, this is a fantastic time to be a gamer.  "
Well said.  I could not have said it better.

As I said on the matter of competition:
 It shows the value and absolutely critical nature of needing a strong and innovative 3rd player in the market.  Without Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony would cause the games market to wither and die on the vine.
It is foolish of some to wish upon Nintendo its death.  They fail to realise the value the competition brings to the marketplace.  They should be thanking Nintendo and wishing them success even id there games fail to interest them.  I would be happy if Sega were still a viable player in the market.  

I agree also that we should rejoice this generation.  So many choices for fun, yet too may focus on shovelware and let it bother them.  So much caring about stuff they don't care about.


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rateoforange

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#27  Edited By rateoforange

Many of oldschool's points are salient (if not original), but what he fails to appreciate is how the concept of 'winning and losing' a generation is obsolete. The Wii's blue ocean strategy created a new customer base rather than attempting to cannibalize a competitor's customer base. The market moved from zero-sum to non-zero-sum. In a non-zero sum game, there may be multiple winners and losers.

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ArbitraryWater

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#28  Edited By ArbitraryWater

I don't agree with you, but I will not bother to argue because you have made your opinion about how awesome you think Nintendo is painfully clear, and if I use the "doesn't have many good games" argument you or Al3xand3r will be more than willing to show me a list of obscure 3rd party titles that I have never heard of to prove your point. I got tired of debating after an unfortunate PM exchange around the subject of video game boobs. So please continue with whatever kind of ire you are trying to inspire in this topic.


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Al3xand3r

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#29  Edited By Al3xand3r

You've never heard of titles that have been reviewed favorably by tons of online publications that aren't small and obscure enough to not show up on metacritic? Wow. Expand your horizons, they sound very, very limited currently. Giant Bomb isn't the only place with gaming coverage, and if it's all you follow, OF COURSE you won't have heard of the Wii games. Narrow-minded ignoramuses like yourself not knowing of them doesn't make them obscure. Even if it was so, it's a lame argument and equivalent to covering your ears and going all LALALA I CAN'T HEAR SO I'M RIGHT.

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CronoXtream

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#30  Edited By CronoXtream

Nintendo=EPIC FAIL

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HandsomeDead

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#31  Edited By HandsomeDead

It's threads like this that really make me hate Nintendo.

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CrossTheAtlantic

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#32  Edited By CrossTheAtlantic

Um, I like all the systems? And am generally just a fan of games. You know, I play what sounds fun and/or interesting regardless of some arbitrary competition which will all be reset in a few years anyways.


So, uh, what line do I get in?
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oldschool

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#33  Edited By oldschool
@ArbitraryWater said:
" I don't agree with you, but I will not bother to argue because you have made your opinion about how awesome you think Nintendo is painfully clear, and if I use the "doesn't have many good games" argument you or Al3xand3r will be more than willing to show me a list of obscure 3rd party titles that I have never heard of to prove your point. I got tired of debating after an unfortunate PM exchange around the subject of video game boobs. So please continue with whatever kind of ire you are trying to inspire in this topic. "
It is kind of sad you feel that way.  I jsut ask questions rather than argue.  I find that more satisfying. 

I think you oversell my point on Nintendo being awesome though.  I think games are awesome, sm e more than others.  I just see the value of Nintendo but do not remove the value of having Microsoft and Sony - competition.  

If anyone sees me as a fanboy, then it is simply to activate their own view at the expense of mine.

@rateoforange said:
" Many of your oldschool's points are salient (if not original), but what he fails to appreciate is how the concept of 'winning and losing' a generation is obsolete. The Wii's blue ocean strategy created a new customer base rather than attempting to cannibalize a competitor's customer base. The market moved from zero-sum to non-zero-sum. In a non-zero sum game, there may be multiple winners and losers. "
I could just flippantly say that your comment is 'loser talk', but I won't [or I suppose I did  :-) ] 

You see my use of the word 'winner' andl'loser' (i don't think I used that word) too literally.  Winner simply means sales.  It is a non personal term, just a statistical one.  It is a bit like saying Nintendo lost the last gen, yet was the most profitable.  It is the only profitable one this gen so far.  You stray too far from my point.

It is amusing though that fans of Sony or Microdoft have rewritten the rules on the words winner and loser.  They had to.  Old definitions no longer suited them.  They were wrong to iuse them that way in the first place.
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Bigandtasty

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#34  Edited By Bigandtasty
@CronoXtream said:
" Nintendo=EPIC FAIL "
Now there's a compelling argument.

Anyway this blog isn't always agreeable but it has a point: Nintendo did something right that other companies are trying to emulate, and it won this generation ("winning" meaning sales and profit) handily. The interesting question is whether or not they'll retain their lead.
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Pibo47

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#35  Edited By Pibo47
@CronoXtream said:
" Nintendo=EPIC FAIL "
I agree, after the N64...i just dont know what they have done to themselves.
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oldschool

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#36  Edited By oldschool
@HandsomeDead said:
" It's threads like this that really make me hate Nintendo. "
Why?  Does their success bother you that much?

@CrossTheAtlantic said:
" Um, I like all the systems? And am generally just a fan of games. You know, I play what sounds fun and/or interesting regardless of some arbitrary competition which will all be reset in a few years anyways.

So, uh, what line do I get in?"
And so am I.  It is the most sensible place to reside.  We are in the same line, so we can chat there  :-)

However, not everyone can afford all 3 systems, so choices will be made.  The ones who argue the most are usually those he feel they have to justify their decision (not always).  I also enjoy my iMac for PC gaming and truly love the DS the most of all consoles.  They all offer strengths.  The blog isn't about that though.  It is about the impact Nintendo have had on the market and its competitors as displayed at E3.


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Lowbrow

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#37  Edited By Lowbrow

Nintendo didn't really win over this generation in my view. They managed to market to and capture an audience who previously did not play games.

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oldschool

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#38  Edited By oldschool
@Bigandtasty said:
"@CronoXtream said: 
" Nintendo=EPIC FAIL "
Now there's a compelling argument.

Anyway this blog isn't always agreeable but it has a point: Nintendo did something right that other companies are trying to emulate, and it won this generation ("winning" meaning sales and profit) handily. The interesting question is whether or not they'll retain their lead."
In this generation, I can see the lead cut a little towards the end of the cycle, but it will still have a comfortable lead.  As for any point on next gen, I have my point clear that I am not confidant of 2 generations success in a row.  What they did this time, they did very well.  Rpeating it?  I doubt it.  It is no easy task to capture the imagination of the public 2 times in a row.
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oldschool

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#39  Edited By oldschool
@Lowbrow said:
" Nintendo didn't really win over this generation in my view. They managed to market to and capture an audience who previously did not play games. "
I'm sorry?  How is that not winning?
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Vinchenzo

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#40  Edited By Vinchenzo

They dragged in a ton of gullible people. To me it's still a gimmick and I'm dissapointed in Sony and Microsoft for not seeing that. While we can't avoid the fact it sells systems (at least the Wii), that doesn't mean the implementation was successful. Almost the entire Wii collection might use motion control, but to no real extent. Waggle the controller? No thanks. If anything Nintendo had amazing timing for the weight-loss games. Everybody wants to lose weight and Nintendo is releasing all the right stuff. Even I sort of want my Wii back to try EA Active.

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puck2dag

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#41  Edited By puck2dag

Nintendo makes me cry

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oldschool

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#42  Edited By oldschool
@Vinchenzo said:
" They dragged in a ton of gullible people. To me it's still a gimmick and I'm dissapointed in Sony and Microsoft for not seeing that. While we can't avoid the fact it sells systems (at least the Wii), that doesn't mean the implementation was successful. Almost the entire Wii collection might use motion control, but to no real extent. Waggle the controller? No thanks. If anything Nintendo had amazing timing for the weight-loss games. Everybody wants to lose weight and Nintendo is releasing all the right stuff. Even I sort of want my Wii back to try EA Active. "
I am curious.  Am I a gullible person?

Why would you assume that everyone feels like you.  The first real game I got for the console was Zelda.  I was stunned at how natural it felt.  Controlling was an extension of y arm.  Then I got some shooting action in Metroid and every other shooting game feels inferior after using the Wiimote.  You say gimmick, others say successful controller.  Every time I paly my 360, I constantly pine for the Wiimote to be controlling the game (especially Bioshock).

It is the subtlety in many cases that makes the Wiiote so good.  Sure, lazy developers are shit at implementation, but that is no different to what happened with the DS.  Games are not always perfect with a standard controller either.
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#43  Edited By DonPixel

This is the kind of Shit Post that made me leave gamespot an other shitty forums.. where the hell are the moderators?! , this is clearly a provocation to irrational fanboysm..

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#44  Edited By HandsomeDead
@oldschool said:
"
@HandsomeDead said:
" It's threads like this that really make me hate Nintendo. "
Why?  Does their success bother you that much?

@CrossTheAtlantic said:
" Um, I like all the systems? And am generally just a fan of games. You know, I play what sounds fun and/or interesting regardless of some arbitrary competition which will all be reset in a few years anyways.

So, uh, what line do I get in?"
And so am I.  It is the most sensible place to reside.  We are in the same line, so we can chat there  :-)

However, not everyone can afford all 3 systems, so choices will be made.  The ones who argue the most are usually those he feel they have to justify their decision (not always).  I also enjoy my iMac for PC gaming and truly love the DS the most of all consoles.  They all offer strengths.  The blog isn't about that though.  It is about the impact Nintendo have had on the market and its competitors as displayed at E3.


"
It has nothing to do with their success, it's your attitude. In fact, if it's anything to do with Nintendo's success, it's that their success breeds insufferable sycophants who can see the light where the rest of us can't and won't shut up about it.
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Lowbrow

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#45  Edited By Lowbrow
@oldschool:

Sorry, I really didn't clarify on this one.

I'm not going to sit here and argue numbers. Obviously at this point Nintendo has enough money to start their own fucking country. They are ultra rich, this I can't argue.

Its not that the console doesn't have any good games, but direction it has taken, the incredible amount of shovelware it's put out... It just seems like this isn't a console for me at all.

I think you'll find people of a similar opinion who love video games and love Nintendo.

They may have won in terms of profits, but they haven't won me over, I'm sure the same is also true for more than just a few of us.


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oldschool

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#46  Edited By oldschool
@DonPixel said:
" This is the kind of Shit Post that made me leave gamespot an other shitty forums.. where the hell are the moderators?! , this is clearly a provocation to irrational fanboysm.. "
Really?  So an analytical dissection of the current state of the console marketplace is fanboyism is it?

Here's a challenge for you.  Find anything in the OP, or anywhere else I have posted on this thread, that criticises Sony or Microsoft other than accepting the reality that they have followed Nintendo.  Get back to me when you find it.
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#47  Edited By The_A_Drain

"The first real game I got for the console was Zelda.  I was stunned at how natural it felt.  Controlling was an extension of y arm."

I'm sorry, I love my Wii, and it has some great games on it. But this is complete bullshit. It feels anything but natural, and it a literal replacement for simply pressing a button. If the game were built ground up for the Wii, it would have been different, but all they did for TP was replace a button press with a waggle, and it doesn't even have to be a remotely precise waggle either.

I'm sorry, I just can't take anybody who considers Twilight Princess' combat controls 'natural' seriously.

There is still plenty of profit to be made by all, and given the global recession, I don't tink it prudent to think about te next generation of consoles just yet, Sony and MS have said they have no plans for a new console, and Nintendo have absolutely no reason to build another yet, it would only lose them customers that they have gained with the Wii. It's the gamer in you wanting another upgrade, the casual market the Wii has swept up in the nets by the tonne on the other hand do not look kindly on having to upgrade. Yet, weirdly, they'll buy peripherals by the bucket load.

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rateoforange

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#48  Edited By rateoforange

Let's try some basic analogy: trying to compare the Wii to the 360/PS3 is like trying to stage a hotdog eating contest between Michael Phelps and Lance Armstrong.

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oldschool

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#49  Edited By oldschool
@HandsomeDead said:
"@oldschool said: 
"@HandsomeDead said: 
" It's threads like this that really make me hate Nintendo. "
Why?  Does their success bother you that much?

@CrossTheAtlantic said:
" Um, I like all the systems? And am generally just a fan of games. You know, I play what sounds fun and/or interesting regardless of some arbitrary competition which will all be reset in a few years anyways.

So, uh, what line do I get in?"
And so am I.  It is the most sensible place to reside.  We are in the same line, so we can chat there  :-)

However, not everyone can afford all 3 systems, so choices will be made.  The ones who argue the most are usually those he feel they have to justify their decision (not always).  I also enjoy my iMac for PC gaming and truly love the DS the most of all consoles.  They all offer strengths.  The blog isn't about that though.  It is about the impact Nintendo have had on the market and its competitors as displayed at E3."
It has nothing to do with their success, it's your attitude. In fact, if it's anything to do with Nintendo's success, it's that their success breeds insufferable sycophants who can see the light where the rest of us can't and won't shut up about it. "
Nothing infuriates more than success does it Dead?  Sorry to spoil your day with facts and opinions.

Just curious though.  I didn't make value judgements on games ot the consoles themselves, so exactly which parts bother you so much?

@Lowbrow said:
" @oldschool: Sorry, I really didn't clarify on this one.I'm not going to sit here and argue numbers. Obviously at this point Nintendo has enough money to start their own fucking country at this point. They are ultra rich, this I can't argue.Its not that the console doesn't have any good games, but direction it has taken, the incredible amount of shovelware it's put out... It just seems like this isn't a console for me at all. I think you'll find people of a similar opinion who love video games and love Nintendo.They may have won in terms of profits, but they haven't won me over, I'm sure the same is also true for more than just a few of us. "
It is true for a lot of people.  It would be foolish to deny that.  I am not going to argue on that point.  Like anything, there will always be those that don't see the enjoyment others get.  It doesn't bother me that you don't like it.

Again, it is about sales and direction of the followers.  No value judgements.  The value judgements are made by those who my points do not suit.
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DonPixel

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#50  Edited By DonPixel
@oldschool said:
"
@DonPixel said:
" This is the kind of Shit Post that made me leave gamespot an other shitty forums.. where the hell are the moderators?! , this is clearly a provocation to irrational fanboysm.. "
Really?  So an analytical dissection of the current state of the console marketplace is fanboyism is it?

Here's a challenge for you.  Find anything in the OP, or anywhere else I have posted on this thread, that criticises Sony or Microsoft other than accepting the reality that they have followed Nintendo.  Get back to me when you find it.
"

Give me a break..  you said something that has being said like a zillion times allready.. plus you made your post so damm anoying with all those ridicoulous over statments speaking of truth you are clearly not giving a chance for discussion, that`s provocation. Discussion starts with an open mind and a disposition to hear other "truths" and negotiate them...

There`s no much point to discuss with someone who comes with "enlighted truth" ... that would be like trying to argue with a Nazi or a Religious Fanatic.. what`s the point ? would they lissen...? nooooo