Shadow of the Colossus vs Dragon's Dogma: Which did climbing combat better?

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TiggyTog

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Edited By TiggyTog

Poll Shadow of the Colossus vs Dragon's Dogma: Which did climbing combat better? (126 votes)

Shadow of the Colossus 52%
Dragon's Dogma 47%

I personally think SoTC has much better climbing combat, but I've also seen people saying Dragon's Dogma did climbing combat better.

Both have physics engines that are pretty much tailor-made for climbing combat, but I don't know which is better, exactly.

Shadow of the Colossus revolutionized boss battles, Dragon's Dogma revolutionized boss battles in RPG's.

Which has better climbing combat, and what makes one better then the other?

Shadow of the Colossus:

Dragon's Dogma:

This is not to discuss which game has better overall combat, just the climbing AND the climbing combat.

This is also not here to discuss which is the better game.

With that said, discuss!

 • 
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Ezekiel

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Shadow of the Colossus by far. The climbing in DD was irritating. Especially when the camera went wack and you didn't know which way (climbing) was up.

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Redhotchilimist

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#2  Edited By Redhotchilimist

It's hard to argue that SotC does not have the more impressive battles. There are a few bigger foes in Dragon's Dogma, but for the most part you're not scaling them. Climbing them is just a useful way to get to a weakspot and do a lot of damage quickly for a melee class. In SotC, it's the primary mechanic, and you don't really have attacks that deal damage besides a sword stab after you've climbed to the correct position.

The major difference for me is the stamina. In SotC, it goes down pretty quickly but also regenerates quickly as soon as you get to a place where you can stand. In Dragon's Dogma, you can pause the game at any time and healy any damage and stamina as long as you have the resources. I like how easy the second one is, but I also appreciate that the first one is better balanced.

So what I'm saying is that the game that's built entirely of puzzle bosses and climbing is better at climbing than the open-world action-RPG that had climbing as an added spice. Both are good, though. I love that DD's climb button is really a grab button. You can hold dudes still while your friends pummel them, throw corpses, barrels and stones around, carry boar, deers, rabbits etc, hang on to harpies as they lift off and fly... It's fun stuff.

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TiggyTog

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@redhotchilimist: Had pretty much everyone on gamespot forums telling me that DD's climbing combat is better, haha.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/shadow-of-the-colossus-vs-dragons-dogma-which-did--33398720/

Though, I'd have to disagree with you about the climbing not being necessary in some cases. Like, I couldn't deal worthwhile damage to most monsters unless I was climbing them, especially the Gorecyclops.

Not climbing the bigger monsters a lot of the time makes killing them far more difficult unless you severely out-level them.

Daimon is the biggest practitioner of this rule. You NEED to climb him to do worthwhile damage, same with all the large dragons in the game (not dragonkin).

I feel like the climbing in SoTC is far more responsive though. I do feel like you have tons of options when climbing in DD though, like skills specifically made for it, on top of your normal slash, jump slash, etc.

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Sinusoidal

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Shadow of the Colossus without a doubt. It's kind of its entire schtick. I rarely climbed anything in Dragon's Dogma, though a lot of that probably has to do with the multitude of effective ranged classes.

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TiggyTog

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@sinusoidal: Not to be rude, but you can't really judge it unless you have prolonged experience with it.

It being SoTC's main form of combat doesn't automatically make it better.

I'm fresh off a playthrough of SoTC and am lvl 150 in DD, only ever played Melee classes, and I can tell you that DD definitely has more options in combat, and it's not just stabbing either, which I think helps it, there's a lot more you can do while climbing.

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OurSin_360

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Collossus, it was more involved and had way more depth than Dogma. I mean it was basically puzzle solving where as dogma was basically randomly climb on things and whale on them until you lose stamina or get thrown off lol. Not saying Dogma was bad, it was mad fun but it was only one function of combat that you never even needed to use.

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ripelivejam

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TiggyTog

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@oursin_360: ...I disagree about the depth.

You have way more variety when playing DD in terms of climbing combat, and variety, versatility, and more options, to me, is more depth.

There are skills based on gouging, slashing, stuff like that.

You could make the game super easy by like, always using Maker's Fingers and Blast Arrow, never even attempting to climb, but thats on you. I think the climbing was masterfully done.

Personally, I think Shadow has better climbing combat, but I really don't think Dogma is that far behind, I actually think it's pretty damn close. It's just that SoTC mastered it's main climbing mechanic.

The big complaint I see from people about Shadow, is the controls, one guy in particular made several good points in favor of DD: "I gave my opinion on Shadow of the Colossus, couldn't care if you agree or not. That's not how discussions work. It's debating pros and cons, going into finer details. And I gave SotC all the positives I think it deserves.

Regardless of how you or other fans feel on the matter SotC was never known to 'play' well. Because it doesn't, and has always been a negative to the game.

The HD version even got heavily criticised for the controls by critics worldwide. SotC was always known for being "artistic" and "original in concept". If you have nostalgic feelings to the game? keep them, I have no interest in such things. But to break it down the main issues I have with SotC are loose input handling and that floaty jump. Mounting is pointless if it's a hassle to mount in the first place, no?

Dragon's Dogma fails on many fronts as well, and I openly criticise the games shortcomings, yet what it does right is handle exceptionally well and the combat is overall amazing, it's responsive and tightly tuned. Simply put, Dogma feels good to play.

And SotC is a clever puzzle game but handles oddly and can't call it a good game because it fails at the basics of gameplay it sets out to achieve. Hence why I hope for some tweaking and refinements in the Remake. Even bow controls (that rare option that's rarely useful) needs refinement.

Despite all that I really want to be excited for the remake as all the game needs is some tweaking to be an amazing game from a gameplay perspective.

Disagree? that's fine. I'm not in the minority though on how it controls."

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NexivSelecaf

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Well, I would say that Dragon's Dogma is the better game overall since I've never been interested in playing a Team Ico game. But Shadow of the Colossus is built around the whole climbing puzzle thing of which other games emulate, so I'll git it the credit it deserves.

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geirr

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Seeing that these two games are among my favorite games ever and both made climbing into an awkward yet awesome experience,
it's really hard to pick "which did it better" since purely mechanically they both probably did it bad?
Emotionally however, nothing will compare to the first time I climbed a colossus, the sadness I felt as I plunged my blade into its weak spot,
and the realization that I would have to do this again, and again, and again..
A dispirited and heart-broken experience from beginning to end.

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TiggyTog

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@geirr: ...what do you have to compare them to, to say that they "both did it pretty bad"?

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Hamborgini

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SotC has better climbing combat, for sure. That is the game's whole shtick, after all. DD definitely has better combat overall, of which climbing on things is but one small part.

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Sinusoidal

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@tiggytog said:

@sinusoidal: Not to be rude, but you can't really judge it unless you have prolonged experience with it.

It being SoTC's main form of combat doesn't automatically make it better.

I'm fresh off a playthrough of SoTC and am lvl 150 in DD, only ever played Melee classes, and I can tell you that DD definitely has more options in combat, and it's not just stabbing either, which I think helps it, there's a lot more you can do while climbing.

I've finished Shadow of the Colossus two times and have ~100 hours in Dragon's Dogma. How much more experience do I need?

How is Dragon's Dogma winning this poll?

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MonkeyKing1969

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I didn't play SoC, so I cannot comment on it. Yet, I have played Dragons Dogma with three characters totally through the whole campaign I can say it is excellent. I liked it enough to buy the game a second time for Dark Arisen.

I climbed a lot of ogres, dragons, and chimera over those playthroughs and I always had fun doing it...even if I would slips down between their legs sometimes. ;-)

I don't think this is a contest that can mean anything? They are two different games and both worthy of playing.

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ArtisanBreads

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It's definitely DD. Shadow is more limited and more platformy so they are a bit different but DD was better.

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GnosisLord

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It's definitely Shadow of the Colossus, but the climbing is still pretty good in DD. It's not a major focus in Dragon's Dogma, so it's cool that the developers put the resources into implementing it. They certainly didn't need to.

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Marz

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#17  Edited By Marz

sotc was more of a puzzle solving game, i wouldn't really call it combat when you just have to stab a weakpoint a few times to win

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omniscientcajun

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#18  Edited By omniscientcajun

In terms of "climbing combat," which was the question posed, there's no question - Dragon's Dogma is better. It's an RPG focused on combat, perhaps above everything else. And within that combat, it incorporates mounted/climbing into really well.

Shadow of the Colossus is more akin to a puzzle platformer with action-game controls. It's "climbing combat" is relegated to managing a grip meter, climbing from safe point to safe point, and executing localized stabs. That's it. To me, there's no real debate when it comes to, as OP said, "climbing combat." If we're talking about just climbing, that's a much different conversation.

And before anyone tries to assess which game I prefer, I played SotC multiple times on PS2, again in the HD remaster, and will very likely play the PS4 remake. I put about 10 hours in DD:DA and will likely never play it again.

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Fredchuckdave

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They're both awkward but Dragon's Dogma gives you other options to kill stuff, therefore Dogma is better at combat. Shadow of the Colossus is still a better game though, perhaps not by very much.

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Zippedbinders

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I think the real answer here is actually Zelda.

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@marz: It's still combat, it's just different then a lot of other games' combat.

You're still stabbing them, so thats considered combat.

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blackichigo

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SOTC has tried and failed to keep my interest for a single playthrough mulitple times. I blame that on my dislike of the controls and "combat"

On the other hand, I have beaten Dragon's Dogma multiple times with nearly every class except the Warrior because fuck that. No dodge roll or ability to block. Ugh.

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Zeik

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#23  Edited By Zeik

Dragon's Dogma without a doubt.

Calling SotC's gameplay "climbing combat" is a misleading description imo. The game doesn't really have combat in the traditional sense. Each Colossus battle is just a giant puzzle where the end result is killing a big monster. The climbing doesn't really add new depth or options to the fights, it's just the thing you do to play the game. Because those fights are just puzzles there's more or less only one way to approach them, and that happens to involve climbing on them.

Dragon's Dogma however has a lot of ways to approach most fights and learning to utilize the climbing effectively makes you feel like a more skilled player.

Don't get me wrong, the Colossus fights could be epic and fun, but they're not really comparable experiences.

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@zeik: Wonder if anyone has tried a playthrough where they only stab the non-weak point areas, like the health still goes down, so yeah.

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#25  Edited By TiggyTog

@zeik: It's still combat though, you do the puzzles THROUGH combat.

To you, it's just a puzzle, but to me, it's combat with a lot of thinking involved. "How do I get to that area to stab that part?" Key word is stab, stabbing plays an important part in the game that sometimes doesn't involve hitting the weak points.

It depends on what you play the game for, I don't play it to test my mind through some puzzles, I play it to feel like a bad-ass when I take down gigantic behemoth-like Colossi with just my sword (and bow, but that plays no part in climbing so yeah).

Granted, to take down those behemoth's, you do the puzzles, but a lot of it is mounting, climbing, and stabbing, so therefore, I think it's a perfect match-up to compare them. Dragon's Dogma's climbing clearly takes tons of inspiration from SoTC, which is why it's a good match-up. It's basically "The one who started it" vs "The (only one) who adapted it".

I think Dragon's Dogma and Shadow of the Colossus are the only two games to do climbing on monsters right.

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TiggyTog

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@sinusoidal: I meant that you said you didn't climb that much.

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Zeik

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#27  Edited By Zeik

@tiggytog: I mean maybe that's theoretically possible, for some of them, but it would take so long that I don't consider it a realistic choice.

I didn't go into it expecting a puzzle game, but in hindsight I definitely see it as one. Primarily because once you figure out the puzzle those fights are significantly less interesting a second time, much like redoing a puzzle that you already know the solution. It's not quite the same, as there is still some joy in the spectacle of killing those giant monsters, but that's all that's left: The spectacle. There's no real skill or challenge left once you know what to do. The best part of that game was definitely when I was trying figure out how to kill them, and the satisfaction from figuring out their weaknesses, not the end result.

There's a remaster of both games coming out and I'm way more intrrested in the idea of replaying DD than SotC for this very reason, even though SotC looks like a much more impressive update.

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#28  Edited By TiggyTog

@zeik: Its actually the opposite for me, I spent hours on a single colossus and had much more fun playing the game when I knew what to do.

To each their own, I guess.

I like just jumping in and dealing the damage, its a lot more fun for me.

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TiggyTog

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@blackichigo: I actually like Warrior the best, but the lack of a dodge roll or block button does get on my nerves.

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TiggyTog

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Geez, the votes are tied up o.o

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deactivated-5e6e407163fd7

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@ripelivejam: my first and only reference point for Dragon's Dogma. I always thought their guy resembled Pete Townshend of The Who.

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First off let me start by saying that I love both those games.

They are very, very different though, so honestly a comparision is kinda moot.

SotC is really more of a puzzle when fighting the Colossi is involved, while DD is just a pure action RPG. Both systems have their own merits and faults.

If I was forced to make a decision I'd say I prefer the SotC fights, because they are a lot more deliberate and less weirdly buggy.

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@sessh: I do think the stamina system works better in DD, because if you climb on a monster's back and they aren't trying to shake you off, your stamina won't go down.

I always found it weird how Wander would lose Stamina while grabbing onto the very top of something's head, even when they were barely moving.

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huhhhhhhhhhh

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NexivSelecaf

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@tiggytog said:

huhhhhhhhhhh

TiggyTog.exe has shopped working.

Windows can check online for a solution to the problem.

-> Check online for a solution and close the program
-> Close the program

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#38  Edited By Zeik

Did you seriously wait two years to make an extremely similar thread involving comparisons with Dragon's Dogma and then respond to a year old comment in this one? Were you in a coma? Did you jump through a time portal?

This is baffling to me.

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thatpinguino

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#40 thatpinguino  Staff

Please don't bump ancient threads for no good reason.