Should Giant Bomb have a quarterly (every 3 months) state of the site video?

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bigsocrates

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bigsocrates  Online

Poll Should Giant Bomb have a quarterly (every 3 months) state of the site video? (310 votes)

Yes 30%
No 39%
I don't care 31%

I've been under the weather this weekend and watching a bunch of streaming video while I wait for my head to stop pulsing with pain and the room to stop spinning. Thinking about what to watch it occurred to me that "This Is the Run" with its simple repetitive structure and fun banter would be perfect. Then I remembered they only did two of those. And the last one was finished in April. Which is five months ago. I also loved Ranking of Fighters and the last one of those was fourteen months ago. I think Jeff has said that series isn't technically dead and for unspecified reasons it is a pain from a production perspective (surely they could check out some of the fighting games on current systems or the decently emulated Neo Geo ports or something if that was the issue?) Old Games Show (last one 15 months ago) seems to have been formally replaced by Jeff's home streams which...fine, I guess, though I don't recall that being announced and in my personal opinion they're different things (Old Games Show went more in depth into fewer games and featured commentary and input from other Bombers.)

It remains very strange to me how opaque all of this is. Maybe the thinking is that running Steal My Sunshine and Exquisite Corps would make This is the Run redundant. That sort of makes sense, though I think they are different things and I really like the chemistry between just Vinny and Dan. Maybe since Abby joined the site they want to avoid too many series that only involve half the staff (though there's no reason they couldn't do an Alex and Abby This is the Run, which I think would be pretty interesting.) For a site that's built around personalities and connection with the audience there's just no information about why things are being done the way they are. Shows appear and disappear without explanation or, often, comment. It seems to me that the new weekly DOTA show with Ben and Brad (which I like) is meant to run most weeks but sometimes gets cut if one or both is too busy or unavailable. Is that the case? I don't know. I'm just speculating.

As a premium subscriber I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the amount of speculation I have to do. I'm paying for a service here and I feel entitled (there's the word) to some idea of what I'm paying for. Will any of these individual video series being canceled cause me to cancel my Giant Bomb subscription? No. I love this site. But I am a little miffed that they feel no need to tell what my money is buying. No other media company runs like this. When HBO cancels a show or puts it on hiatus they announce it. When Netflix adds a show (or lets one lapse from the library) they announce it.

What I propose is simple. Every three months Jeff should flip on his webcam like it was a jar time and just discuss what happened over the last 3 months at Giant Bomb and some rough idea of what's coming. It doesn't have to be that concrete or set in stone, just some basic statements about the direction the site looks like it's going. "We really want to bring Ranking of Fighters back but we just can't do it without another production person because hooking up old consoles is a real pain." Boom, done. "Over on the East Coast they know some people want another This is the Run but a daily show is difficult to produce and we feel like it would be a little redundant with other series currently running." Done. "We know Old Games Show has a dedicated fanbase but the analytics say it's not that popular in general and it's time consuming to set up." Ok.

Run through the shows introduced over the last few months, what proved popular, what proved less popular, and give some idea of what's coming, even if he doesn't want to spoil the surprise. "We have something really cool planned in a couple weeks. I won't give it away but I'm just going to say one word. Bubsy."

I feel like this simple communication would make me less irritated when a show I really like disappears, give me a better idea of what's coming back soon and what's not (so I don't check the upcoming feed with excitement only to be disappointed when a show is canceled or put on hiatus with no warning) and make me feel more connected to the site.

It doesn't have to be this specific format. A written column would be fine, so would a podcast, whatever. I know Jeff disseminates some of this information in various other places like his tumblr and mixlr, but I shouldn't have to go outside the site to get the data, and I certainly shouldn't have to randomly be listening to a Mixlr (which are not recorded) or happen upon an offhand remark in a livestream that I may or may not watch to keep up with the info. It should be presented in an organized routine way.

Maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't think so. But if I had to pick one flaw with Giant Bomb i would pick this one. I like all the cast members, I like most of the shows, I like the podcasts and the reviews, the whole thing. I am a happy subscriber. But it is incredibly frustrating to never know what's going on and this lack of communication is very out of character for a site that's generally very in touch with and open to its user base.

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liquiddragon

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I think the site is very much about them figuring what they want to do and us being in it for the ride, surprises are a part of that. I never got the sense that it's an on going dialogue between the crew and the audience. They put stuff out, we respond to it, and they react accordingly. Expecting stuff will constantly disappoint you. Also, I don't know how much quarters mean to them in term of content roll out.

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OMGFather

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Nah. I'm not really paying for any specific series or anything, just to support them in whatever they do. Sometimes something like Beast in the East can come out of the blue and it makes it feel extra special.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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Better communication on their general planning and behind-the-scenes stuff has been a frequent request for as long as I can remember, and sadly it never really happens. I remember a brief period where videos like these existed, but talking about design plans seems to have faded around the time they sold to CBSi and their ability to try weird new things with the site's design more or less vanished. Dave, specifically, used to be a big proponent of bringing the site's community into the fold a lot more, and of course, he left soon after the acquisition. They seem to interact with the community less than ever these days, as far as I can tell. (And unfortunately, the community these days doesn't seem to care about it much.)

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mike

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#4  Edited By mike

The last thing I would ever want is for them to be forced into continuing a video or podcast series just because they committed to it at some point in the past. I want them to do what they think is fun and interesting, and I'm fine with some of those things not being for me. I NEVER expect a show to have even so much as a second episode. I just take what comes and enjoy it, or I skip it. Not really a big deal.

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bigsocrates

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#5 bigsocrates  Online

@mike said:

The last thing I would ever want is for them to be forced into continuing a video or podcast series just because they committed to it at some point in the past. I want them to do what they think is fun and interesting, and I'm fine with some of those things not being for me.

I am not arguing that they should be held to some plan or schedule. I actually think the site might benefit from some more clear scheduling, but I get that's not really their thing and that's fine. But having shows disappear without explanation or announcement, or go on long-term hiatus, is frustrating when you're a fan of something and it just vanishes and you don't know why or for how long. I imagine for people who subscribe on a monthly basis it's even more frustrating because they might be paying for a particular feature, only to have it become not a feature without any warning.

I'm more interested in the retrospective and explanation than some kind of "We will put out 3 episodes of Ranking of Fighters in the next quarter" corporate scheduling.

My idea is not to try to force them to stick to a schedule or whatever but just to have some feedback as to why the things that have happened have happened. I'm interested in what shows are popular. They wouldn't share the specifics (and I'd guess they wouldn't announce if something bombed...haha..) but some kind of "People really seem to be digging Demo Derby so keep looking for that" would be cool.

Giant Bomb is kind of like a loot box. You pay your fee and then it's totally random what comes out.

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Savage

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Make content, not meta-content.

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RetroMetal

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#7  Edited By RetroMetal

I literally pay GB a subscription to support them and the site.

I rarely ever even watch premium content... I don't have time.

I mostly listen to the two podcasts and watch quick looks.

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iammattz

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We aren't shareholders.

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bigsocrates

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#9 bigsocrates  Online

@iammattz said:

We aren't shareholders.

No we aren't. We are customers. And many media organizations provide this kind of information to their customers. If you subscribe to a season of theater you generally get a newsletter about the theater company, and if something changes (like they have to cut a show's run short for some reason) they explain what happened and why. If you subscribe to a premium cable channel they tell you exactly what shows are going to be on when, and if a show gets canceled they generally provide some kind of explanation. If you subscribe to a magazine they have editors notes in most issues and if a long-running feature is reshuffled or canceled they offer some kind of explanation.

I'm not asking that they crack open the financials or give us the right to vote on what shows they should do (though voting on shows would be cool) or anything like that. I just want the basic level of information that similar services provide to their customers.

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peacebrother

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#10  Edited By peacebrother

One of the things I love about Giant Bomb (and have always loved) is it's unpredictability and constant change/flux. I do not care where it goes, or how it gets there, or what gets picked up or dropped along the way. It's all Giant Bomb, and that's what matters.

I vote no. This place started in a basement, and retains the spirit.

Edit addition: The idea of this place becoming *more* like other sites in terms of planning and organization would make me want to leave. Giant Bomb is unique, and making it more PROFESSIONAL is literally the last thing in the world I would want. Especially because it's clear that it's not what the team wants to do. Fuck, everything on the internet can be so god damn serious, the way Giant Bomb operates is a breath of fresh air. Double vote no.

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forteexe21

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Jeff already talks enough about those stuff in Jar Time and in his tumblr. Not that i really care as i just want more Ranking of Fighters.

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burncoat

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I feel like they talk enough about the background stuff on UPF, the podcasts, everybody's twitter, and Jeff's Jar Time (or pretty much everything Jeff does off-site). I don't need to know the specifics of what's going on and how they do their business or look to do their business. I don't need video numbers, comprehensive reviews of comment sections to know what people say they like or don't like, play by play on what they need to get ready for next PAX, or anything else like that. Some of the stuff you're suggesting they talk about might not be something CBS wants them to talk about, anyways.

Every few months a thread like this pops up where people lament and ask about old series and why they're gone and when they'll come back. I don't really understand the fervor over clinging to lost or old series when we get new content anyways. The time away makes it that much of a treat when an old series gets revived. If it's not a series focused on one game (like Load our Lost Souls, Steal my Sunshine, or a This is the Run series), it's not a big loss if something goes on hiatus. Something new will replace it or at the least be a good back-up incase something happens (What the Fark is ARK was a great video). The site also seems to be in a constant state of flux with new studios, people leaving, new hires, trying to get new hires, new set-ups, new video-player, PAX, PAX-Plague, kidney stones, E3, and so on that some series are definitely going to be left by the wayside. All of that info I get just by listening to podcasts and following everybody on twitter.

"State of the Site" sounds like a Kickstarter update site or something on a YouTube channel.

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PancakePatriarchate

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I can see where you're coming from, especially regarding the monthly subscriptions for certain features. But for better or worse I don't think they have any desire or ability to plan out specific things like that 2-4 months down the line; I don't think it's ever been like that. I originally subscribed for the Powerbombcast and Alt+F1. Neither exist here anymore. I knew full well the former was a 'when we feel like it' feature and the latter could end after any given F1 season. I never felt entitled, as you say, to know if they were still down to do it. Ultimately I think it comes down to 1) whether or not you think it's ok to fly by the seat of your pants, as this site has always seemed to and 2) whether or not you think your subscription is "worth it". Personally I do not jive with the customer mentality at all, but others may feel differently.

Edit: And as others have said a lot of the background stuff comes out in the podcasts and stuff anyways. I feel that if someone is so interested in finding out what the plans are, they'll probably pick it up in a number of places anyway.

@peacebrother said:

I vote no. This place started in a basement, and retains the spirit.

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tgjessie

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#14  Edited By tgjessie

Some shows phase out, new ones phase in. As long as there are shows, and we're enjoying them, what does it matter? Let them do their thing. I'll keep paying for that.

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berniesbc

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I guess I would be into this, but I'm fine with it not existing.

HOWEVER, I really can't believe that its been over a year since a Ranking of Fighters ep. Where has the year gone??

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Efesell

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Eh I don't really need that much structure.

So long as shows that fade out are just replaced with new shows then that's fine.

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bigsocrates

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#17 bigsocrates  Online

I guess I would be into this, but I'm fine with it not existing.

HOWEVER, I really can't believe that its been over a year since a Ranking of Fighters ep. Where has the year gone??

I was wrong about that. I forgot about the Marvel V. Capcom one. So it has only been 9 months.

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BoringK

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nahh...but I do miss Ranking of Fighters and Old Games Show.

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bigsocrates

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#19 bigsocrates  Online

Jeff already talks enough about those stuff in Jar Time and in his tumblr. Not that i really care as i just want more Ranking of Fighters.

Even Destiny gave up on grimoire cards. Scattering information across the literally hundreds of hours of content the site puts out and multiple different platforms is not a substitute for putting it in one place. Mentioning something on an unarchived Mixlr is not the same as actually announcing it.

I find this whole thread pretty illuminating. I think there's something of a generational divide here (I AM OLD.) When someone asks me, repeatedly, to give them money in exchange for a service, as Giant Bomb has done, I consider myself a customer and them a service provider. That doesn't mean I get to dictate what they're doing or demand that things be the way I want them, but I have no problem, as a customer, making my desires known. And while I don't expect to control the product I DO feel like I have a right to know what the product is.

It seems like a bunch of people in this thread view the subscription as something more akin to a tip jar for artists they like. They don't really care what gets made they just want to support the artist. I don't really think that way, and I contribute more than $50 a month to various Patreons.

The idea that I wouldn't care what shows are being produced frankly baffles me. Not only do I prefer some shows to others (and I honestly can't imagine NOT having preferences for some content over other content) but there are some shows that grow in value when produced consistently. Ranking of Fighters is kind of tongue in cheek about ranking EVERY fighting game through "science" but I actually found the process of ranking the games (which was taken somewhat seriously) pretty interesting. Developing a hierarchy of games in the genre was a cool idea, and one that clearly gains more value the more games that are ranked. They didn't even get to a mainline Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, or any of the awesomely bad N64 fighting games like Mace the Dark Age. HOW CAN WE HAVE A TRUE RANKING OF FIGHTERS WITHOUT MACE THE DARK AGE?

Giant Bomb is not some fungible undifferentiated mass of "content" for me. It's a site that serves up various features, some I like better and some I don't like as much. I want to have some idea of what's coming and I want to do what I can to request the stuff I like (without being annoying.) It appears that for many people they don't care what gets produced. I confess that I can't understand that mentality.

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Luchalma

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You use words like shows and cast members and...that's just not how I think of Giant Bomb. When a new Ranking of Fighters comes out, I think "Oh cool they did another one of these", not "FINALLY it's been so long since the last episode". This isn't TV. It's people playing video games on the internet and they've always done it very seat-of-the-pants.

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Dragon_Puncher

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I don't think GB and long term planning really goes that great together. It doesn't really fit the personalities of the crew and is probably pretty hard to do when every goes through CBS as well.

They should do whatever stuff they enjoy during, when they enjoy during it. IMO that's where the good content happens, which game it is, is often secondary.

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bigsocrates

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#22 bigsocrates  Online

I don't think GB and long term planning really goes that great together. It doesn't really fit the personalities of the crew and is probably pretty hard to do when every goes through CBS as well.

They should do whatever stuff they enjoy during, when they enjoy during it. IMO that's where the good content happens, which game it is, is often secondary.

I don't understand this claim at all. Giant Bomb stays on schedule for a lot of things. They have not missed a bombcast in almost 10 years. When they commit to a series (such as an endurance run or Beast in the East or whatever) they churn it out like clockwork (and I've never seen anyone complain about those series as feeling 'forced.')

I have always thought that PART OF THE JOKE of Unprofessional Fridays is that they very professionally put it on basically every Friday, with exceptions only made for holidays. They used to do Thursday Night Throwdown regularly.

They used to have a feature called "I Love Mondays" laying out what they were going to do that week. I swear I'm not making it up! It was real!

People who are like "This isn't in the spirit of Giant Bomb, they've never done stuff on a schedule" are just confusing me at this point. I feel like maybe they haven't followed the site as long as I have or paid as much attention?

This Ain't No Game put out a great, edited, episode every week and is one of my favorite things the site has ever done.

I don't want to go down this path and I've been avoiding it but I'll just say...I think Ryan Davis was a very talented producer and in addition to his personality and content production skills, the site has suffered from the loss of his organizational abilities.

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WillyOD

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Giant Bomb helped me through some tough (depression etc.) times over the past years. I am forever grateful for that. Somewhere along the way I got addicted to GB though. My subscription just run out few days ago, missed my first Unprofessional Fridays in a long while, haven't been in chats for a month or so. I'm considering whether or not to resub as a premium member. I think I'd be ok without, since my favourite contents are Bombcast and Beastcast (drop the postcards thing please it's like twenty minutes of every show, starting to feel like a stream where people donate just to get their name mentioned).

I'm rambling but whatever Giant Bomb does I wish them the best of luck. I'm gonna lay lown for a while since I've got my life somewhat together I feel like I should concentrate on improving my life instead of "wasting" it by just consuming (devouring?) content made by others.

All the best!

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Dragon_Puncher

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@bigsocrates: I'm not saying they don't do stuff on a schedule, but more that planning new stuff months in advance can get tough when you have to get stuff cleared through a lot of channels. And while they do keep playing through games in endurance runs (which has become the basic premise of that series), plenty of things fizzle out when they don't want to do them any more, often for the better. For example, Breaking Brads (DMC comes to mind), Vinnyvania, Bring your B-game (probably), Betting the Farmvile, the Old Games Show, Jurasic Larc, etc.

That's not to say they are unprofessional, just that they have a tight schedule already filled with a bunch of stuff we don't see, so the stuff that goes up on camera, should be the stuff they enjoy during and think works the best.

I feel like an overall schedule will force them to try and keep promises that might not end up working out, leaving fans disappointed. On a personal note I also just like the surprise of not always knowing what'll pop up, but that's just me.

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I would say no, but a bit more communication or info on things wouldn't be a bad thing.

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Rigas

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This is exact reason GB is the only site I pay for.

Giant Bomb is unique, and making it more PROFESSIONAL is literally the last thing in the world I would want.

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wildpomme

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Well, I agree with you BigSocrates. I think they could really benefit from some more structure. I haven't watched/listened to a Giant Bomb video/podcast in probably two months or more. I've been here since the beginning and there was a point where I didn't care where my money went, but there have been a lot of little things bothering me lately that all just add up to a general dissatisfaction with the site as a whole. Unless something changes (me or the site), I won't be resubscribing when my subscription runs out in 2019.

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Ketta

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#29  Edited By Ketta

@bigsocrates I agree with you on all of these issues actually. I don't understand why people are so afraid to make reasonable requests of the people who make their salaries off your dollar. We pay taxes to our governments that pay our elected officials. Aren't people upset when politicians refuse to listen to their constituents?

To me personally, I don't care to have any input on the particular content that GB produces. What I am really frustrated with is actually the technical issues that have been plaguing this site for years. I watch most of the streams if I happen to be home when they are airing, and I cannot even fathom how many times I have witnessed dropped streams, crashed streams, buffering issues, muted audio or individual staff with mics muted for minutes at a time, mixed audio channels with waiting room music, broken chats, broken polls, endless refreshing of pages with F5, lost archives or archives posted days late, hot or soft mics, streams left with staff feed only and no game feed for 5-10 minutes at a time, and many more issues. I know that GB and the technical team are small, but I mean seriously, it has been almost 10 years, half of which now has been under one of the largest media conglomerates in the world. There are times where this site is less "unprofessional" and more "amateur".

The other primary issue I have is how miserable it is to find videos on the site. The video tab above us only lists about half of the series outright. QLCrew is necessary to consume content that is older than a year in my opinion. I don't understand why they haven't just hired someone like Szlifier to fix that mess.

I love GB. I really do. Usually a highlight of my week and I love having fun with everyone in the chat during the shows. But if they were to ever raise the price of a premium sub I don't think I would consider it unless some serious effort was made to fix the technical mess that is giantbomb.com

Regular updates on how these issues are addressed would go a long way. (Or proof that they are being addressed at all, because some of them have been going on for so long you would think the codebase is cursed or something.)

Oh one last thing. I know I said I don't care about input on the content, but if I can make one more suggestion, please don't make any more HITMAN content until the next season, I am so burned out on that game after probably 25 hours of content in the last year.

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bigsocrates

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#30 bigsocrates  Online

I feel like an overall schedule will force them to try and keep promises that might not end up working out, leaving fans disappointed. On a personal note I also just like the surprise of not always knowing what'll pop up, but that's just me.

I don't really understand how I've miscommunicated myself this badly, even looking back at what I've written in this thread. This is how I have felt this thread has gone.

BigSocrates: Hey guys, is anyone else interested in a little more transparency as to how certain decisions are made at Giant Bomb, and at least some information about what shows are 'active' vs what's on hiatus, because it's a bummer to see a show disappear without warning?

Others: Trying to force Giant Bomb to adhere to a rigid schedule would ruin the spontaneity of the site. Giant Bomb has always run as a hobo collective that decides what to do based on elaborate internal cultural rituals and has no concept of time.

BS: That's not what I'm saying, and I don't think that's really true. Giant Bomb has, at times, had more strict scheduling for some stuff and it didn't hurt things, but that's not my point here, I am frustrated by the opacity of why things happened, not trying to advocate them adhering to a strict schedule or anything.

O: Why do you want Jeff to cancel the search for a video producer to assist Jason and instead hire a German efficiency expert to stand behind Brad and shout "ACHTUNG!" every time Brad inputs a button press that the efficiency expert deems sub-optimal for staying on the schedule, which has been written out, down to the second, decades in advance?

BS: That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I just want something simple like Jar Time but with a focus towards explaining what's been going on with the site from the staff's perspective so we know why things happened the way they did?

O: Why are you starting a petition to oust Jeff and replace him with M.O.D.O.B. (Mental Organism Designed Only for Boringness)? I won't sign it! You can't make me.

BS: Oh for Pete's sake!

O: And now you want to replace Vinny with someone named Pete? How could you want to get rid of Vinny? Vinny is a beautiful cotton candy tuft of warmth and joy. Only a monster would stake out the hard anti-Vinny position you are advocating!

Just to reiterate, I am not advocating a schedule. My example of a "schedule" in my OP was "We're going to be doing something cool with Bubsy [that was a joke] in a couple of weeks." It was both vague and extremely non-binding. I understand the need for spontaneity and flexibility, but explaining why things happened and getting some thoughts on what shows are working well doesn't create a schedule.

And for those who are worried that this proposal (which clearly isn't going to happen anyway) would take away precious resources from other stuff, that's why I suggested either a quick vlog format or a written notice. I don't think that either of those are particularly hard, and since these are just off the cuff thoughts they don't take a lot of prep.

I could get some of this information from Jar time most likely, but i would feel like a real jerkhole submitting the same questions or sort of questions over and over. Why does a big forum thread feel less jerkholey? Not 100% sure.

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Mcfart

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#31  Edited By Mcfart

@bigsocrates said:

Just to reiterate, I am not advocating a schedule. My example of a "schedule" in my OP was "We're going to be doing something cool with Bubsy [that was a joke] in a couple of weeks." It was both vague and extremely non-binding. I understand the need for spontaneity and flexibility, but explaining why things happened and getting some thoughts on what shows are working well doesn't create a schedule.

And for those who are worried that this proposal (which clearly isn't going to happen anyway) would take away precious resources from other stuff, that's why I suggested either a quick vlog format or a written notice. I don't think that either of those are particularly hard, and since these are just off the cuff thoughts they don't take a lot of prep.

I could get some of this information from Jar time most likely, but i would feel like a real jerkhole submitting the same questions or sort of questions over and over. Why does a big forum thread feel less jerkholey? Not 100% sure.

Back when Peter Molyneux was a thing in gaming, everyone (including GB) ragged on him for making promises he couldn't fulfill. That's one reason why GB shouldn't start "teasing things" or "making promises", because then they'd owe an explanation if things don't work out or say, Jason gets sick. Imagine if GB were following your corporate structure with commitments to the public (yes, your idea is corporatizing the website, no matter how you sugarcoat it)..then they'd have to waste time explaining why they can't do abc at the moment because they are missing a video producer.

I'm not saying it's wrong to corporatize the website, but since they are such a small crew, then it's more efficient for them to actually work on stuff rather than content to explain what's going to happen (maybe) in the near future. GB ran "I love Mondays" for years, and that eventually fell off because it basically took time away from doing other stuff. GB runs a really tight ship, with all the pros and cons that come with it. One of the cons is really needing to be efficient with their available time.

Besides, GB runs very similar to most popular Youtube channels. Nothing is promised ever. Videos show up when they do, and people are used to that. People still get extra perks when donating via Patreon, just like when subscribing here. I see GB as a better version of Youtube channels, rather than as a less professional version of Gamespot etc.

PS: Lots of people are talking about "popular features vs blunders dictating what comes next". I find that hard to believe to be honest. I'm probably correct to assume that Persona 5's quick look was one of GB's most popular videos in a while, whereas Brad's DOTA feature is likely among the least popular. Yet look at which feature is continuing. They are lucky that they can do things that they want instead of things that are popular (within reason of course). Passion projects seem to be strongly encouraged at GB.

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#32 bigsocrates  Online

Just not true. Not true.

Lots of much smaller operations put out these types of videos in the interest of transparency. NoClip does it (quite aggressively in fact.) Cloth Map does it. Neither of those are "corporate" operations. Giant Bomb is, in fact, owned by CBS, a MASSIVE, corporation, so it is already corporatized, but people are just blatantly attacking strawman positions here.

The idea that talking directly to your audience about how your site is going is somehow 'corporate' is just strange. Opacity is often something corporations actually like while freestanding creators with Patreons and the like often frequently update their audience on how things are going and what they're up to.

You can argue against my suggestions because you don't really care about what content is produced as long as there is content or because you prefer to be surprised and not see behind the curtain, and while I find those positions odd they are legitimate positions. But the idea that general updates on how things are going is somehow "corporatizing" is just clearly false.

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#33  Edited By Ketta
@mcfart said:

I'm not saying it's wrong to corporatize the website, but since they are such a small crew, then it's more efficient for them to actually work on stuff rather than content to explain what's going to happen (maybe) in the near future. GB ran "I love Mondays" for years, and that eventually fell off because it basically took time away from doing other stuff. GB runs a really tight ship, with all the pros and cons that come with it. One of the cons is really needing to be efficient with their available time.

@bigsocrates is literally asking for a short 10 minute vlog every 3 months to discuss the site. If not one person on the crew can find 10 minutes out of their schedule every 90 days to talk to the community then there is a serious mismanagement going on. Hell, from what I understand they have internal meetings for an hour or more each week to discuss this sort of stuff among themselves. Any team in the world, regardless of their field of business, will do this. There is no reason why a simple video like this couldn't be produced. All they need is a webcam.

It really bothers me how the fanboys on this site feel the need to protect these grown men (+ Abby) from constructive criticism.

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I'm paying for Giant Bomb and they are delivering.
When it comes to "the state of the site", whenever there are interesting topics to discuss it usually happens in the podcasts or UPF, but by and large they are simply tackling the new releases each week and mixing it up with whatever features they are inspired to conjure up, just like they've always done, any important or personal notices from the staff will come by news posts or in the twitter feed.
On a side but also related note, of all the content creators and services i consume non of them give regular behind the scenes update videos.

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#35  Edited By burncoat

@bigsocrates: I don't understand your argument when your reasoning is "I pay for the product, I should know where it's coming from" and using NoClip and Cloth Map, both on Patreon and crowdfunded projects that are completely different from traditional corporate structure. Yeah Giant Bomb is already "corporate," they have a budget, HR department, but for the most part they're autonomous and separate from the larger corporate entity. They don't have to give quarterly reports to subscribers like they were investors. Bob Iger from Disney doesn't come out and say "Hey, we might be working on a Pixar film about talking plants," he has a team of people devoted to planning and releasing those kinds of statements and info only when they're solid projects with direction and funding.

And again, all of this info you want is already out there. Technology and social media has laid that out there and Jeff is fairly open about all this stuff when asked. If you miss anything or don't know what's going on, the Discord and the forums are full of people that can fill you in. Jar Time is the best time to ask these questions you want answered. You have the ability to be an informed consumer.

This topic would have really gone better if it was worded "Do you want them to do this?" rather than "Should they do this?" I'm in no position to demand or obligate the site to do something based on my $4 or less per month I give.

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#36  Edited By Seikenfreak

I definitely understand what you mean.

It's not so much that I expect them to tell us every little thing they do.. But, in a curious way, I'm amazed at how many shows/series just come and go. Feels sort of pointless to create and title them like a series, do one or two episodes, and then vanish. I'm curious to know if its because there wasn't much interest in a series from viewers, difficult to produce, or they just don't care and do whatever they want and don't look at numbers etc.

I liked "Bring Your B-Game" for example. Great name. I don't need the voting thing to move on or not.. I just like seeing Giant Bomb play old random games I've never heard of or know little about, similar to the Random PC stuff. The B-game show vanished. If I had to guess, I'd say it was because the voting thing felt weird or was pointless.. but that would suck if they abandoned all B-games just because of that.

But I don't use Twitter/Tumblr/Facebook. And I don't watch many UPFs now.. Just kinda lost interest in what they typically play on there. I do watch Jeff's Jar Times but those are pretty rare and I don't remember him talking about shows except for stuff he is directly involved in like Ranking of Fighters.

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I'm with you, some more transparency would be nice out of these guys. Which isn't to say that I don't think they're plenty transparent (they definitely are) but that I feel like they used to be a little more transparent about the stuff that was going on. Like, I feel like Jar Time used to fill this role nicely, but even that rarely happens anymore.

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I wouldn't mind more data but at the same time I like to keep giant bomb about video games and keep it about having a dumb good time. I don't need them to get political and I don't need them to have townhalls and report on anything.

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#39  Edited By deerokus

I always thought Ranking of Fighters was one of the worst series they did. Idea was good but the execution wasn't right. They always spent way too long on games that were usually a bit boring to watch.

Fwiw at least in the UK Netflix definitely don't announce when they add or remove shows (that aren't their own productions). It's a real annoyance.

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#40  Edited By bigsocrates  Online

@burncoat said:

@bigsocrates: I don't understand your argument when your reasoning is "I pay for the product, I should know where it's coming from" and using NoClip and Cloth Map, both on Patreon and crowdfunded projects that are completely different from traditional corporate structure. Yeah Giant Bomb is already "corporate," they have a budget, HR department, but for the most part they're autonomous and separate from the larger corporate entity. They don't have to give quarterly reports to subscribers like they were investors. Bob Iger from Disney doesn't come out and say "Hey, we might be working on a Pixar film about talking plants," he has a team of people devoted to planning and releasing those kinds of statements and info only when they're solid projects with direction and funding.

And again, all of this info you want is already out there. Technology and social media has laid that out there and Jeff is fairly open about all this stuff when asked. If you miss anything or don't know what's going on, the Discord and the forums are full of people that can fill you in. Jar Time is the best time to ask these questions you want answered. You have the ability to be an informed consumer.

This topic would have really gone better if it was worded "Do you want them to do this?" rather than "Should they do this?" I'm in no position to demand or obligate the site to do something based on my $4 or less per month I give.

I referenced No Clip and Cloth Map in response to an accusation that I was advocating the "corporatization" of Giant Bomb. My point was simply that talking to your audience about what you're up to is not some inherently "corporate" act. I'm not even sure what "corporate" means in this case because it's a legal structure, but I assume from context it means a large bureaucratic organization.

Saying that the information is "out there" on various platforms with no guidance to where and when it can be found is pointless. You might as well say "Look, Jeff explained all of this to a biker in Reno once, and you just need to find that biker, somewhere in the continental U.S., and tell him the secret word, which you can probably guess, and he'll explain it all to you. I'll even give you a hint, the secret word is in Navajo. Now it's almost TOO easy." I am a heavy user of the forums and I watch a fair amount of the content but, as they keep saying, they put out more and more each year and it's impossible to keep up, let alone know what's going on on the Discord, which I have zero interest in. Inaccessible information might as well not exist.

Nowhere in my original post did I demand or obligate anyone to anything. I made a suggestion/request and said that I do feel entitled to a little more information (my feeling of entitlement does not mean there is an obligation to give that.) You can say I could have phrased things better and yes, I could have. It's always possible to phrase things better. But the underlying request is pretty mild, and the Giant Bomb team are seasoned professionals not kids just starting out. I think they can handle a user request without getting too upset. They may not grant the request but I doubt it's too upsetting.

If I did upset someone I'm sorry. It wasn't my intent.

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I guess I would be into this, but I'm fine with it not existing.

HOWEVER, I really can't believe that its been over a year since a Ranking of Fighters ep. Where has the year gone??

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#42  Edited By Sectarian

I would say we are all "customers" by definition first and foremost purely because content is locked behind a paywall. We might have different reasons for supporting the site but we're purchasing a product/service at the end of the day. I think we're entitled (there's that word!) to just a little more transparency and communication from the staff. Not to say the guys are dishonest, but the fact that it is a monthly subscription business means that you might look at things with a more skeptical eye. Here's a thought for example: (And this is just an example! Not at all implying these are tactics that giant bomb employs) Would it benefit or harm their subscription numbers to be deliberately vague about future and cancelled content? Now if it were a honor system, pay-what-you-want type of deal, then of course it would be a different story and expectations would be different.

And another thing I haven't seen anyone mention so far: More important than the 5 bucks a month, what about the time investment we put into this site? Imagine if metal gear scanlon just randomly ended 4 episodes into snake eater, i'd be pretty bummed wondering if it was ever going to come back and if i'd just wasted however many dozens of hours of my free time. Hell, I think they totally did this midway through 5! Couldn't we get a simple yes or no answer to whether something is cancelled or not? Couldn't we get a loose timeframe for when content is returning rather than having it come out "when it comes out"? What is so bad about regularly scheduling content? How nice would it be if they just went, "Hey we're done with Steal my sunshine so we're gonna take a 3 week break then we have a new idea for a show ready to go in the same timeslot, so we've got you covered"?

Sorry if this seems cynical and harsh. This is still the best website on the internet and I love it to death but my love has waned this past year. I've written off west coast content totally so I really want the stuff I do watch to be as good as it can be.

Sidenote: It weirds me out a little how some people just won't hear the slightest negative thing said about this site even though it comes from a desire to see the thing you love get better. It's hard to take criticism to heart when so much of your fanbase leaps in to deflect it most of it.

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As someone constantly confused about the lack of input from GB West I would love to hear about this kinda thing. New features in the works, status of dormant features like Game Tapes and Ranking of Fighters, progress on the new video production hire, etc. GB East is pretty consistent in their output and already share when they have new features in the works so I wouldn't necessarily need the same thing from them, but it would probably be pretty weird if only one coast did this. As it is, if it weren't for the East coast crew I wouldn't be a premium member anymore, even if I watched UPF that alone isn't woth $50 a year. Hearing about what's actually going on behind the scenes would maybe make me more understanding with the lack of content.

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#45  Edited By Seikenfreak

@TechnoSyndrome said:

..features like Game Tapes..

Oh yea, Game Tapes. There's another show I like but is so infrequent that I forget it exists. As I mentioned, just curious as to why. Entitled seems too strong a word for me. Are they bored of it? Do they think they don't have any more worthwhile tapes? (they have an entire library apparently) Was the viewer count super low on them? Is it just not efficient for them to make content with more than two (three counting Jason)? Is the tape player broken?

While the crew does seem to do a bit of whatever they want, I get the impression they are smarter than that and actually look at the analytics and say "Okay, based on how much W, X, Y, and Z employees get paid, this video series is a loss every episode because the viewer count is low plus we can output twice as much content if we split this group up and stagger our recording times."

It's always amusing to see people take an idea to the extreme conclusion. Someone asking about quick written/video summary equivalent to a community forum post or mailbag does not mean they want an hour long, edited video every week or a live recording of their production meetings. I just don't get it.

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The idea behind this thread, while well-intentioned, is the kind of thing that if your boss asked you to do it at your place of work, you'd hate his/her guts for it.

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#47 bigsocrates  Online

@htr10 said:

The idea behind this thread, while well-intentioned, is the kind of thing that if your boss asked you to do it at your place of work, you'd hate his/her guts for it.

I don't have a general public facing job but my supervisors routinely ask me to give progress updates to various clients, prepare budgets and expense reports, and otherwise prepare summaries of completed work. It would never even occur to me to be irritated at these requests, and I get more unreasonable requests all the time. If I really wanted to disturb you I'd tell you that I work in an industry where we track our time in 6 minute increments with narrative descriptions. That really sucks, and I'd never wish it on anyone, but even in prior jobs it would never have occurred to me to get annoyed at doing some basic 'here's how things are going' work.

I'm curious at what utopian industry you work in where your boss would be like "Can you whip up a quick presentation to our customers about what we've got planned in the next few months?" and you get to be all "Screw you old man! I'm no indentured servant! I will HAVE MY VENGEANCE!"

Note: I am definitely not saying I'm anyone's "boss" in this situation whatsoever, but this comment is kind of fascinating to me. I actually kind of like updating my company's clients on the value we've provided them. Not only does it help me assess my own performance and track our goals and deliverables, but it feels nice to summarize all that work and be like "yeah, we accomplished all of that."

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@TechnoSyndrome said:

..features like Game Tapes..

Oh yea, Game Tapes. There's another show I like but is so infrequent that I forget it exists. As I mentioned, just curious as to why. Entitled seems too strong a word for me. Are they bored of it? Do they think they don't have any more worthwhile tapes? (they have an entire library apparently) Was the viewer count super low on them? Is it just not efficient for them to make content with more than two (three counting Jason)? Is the tape player broken?

While the crew does seem to do a bit of whatever they want, I get the impression they are smarter than that and actually look at the analytics and say "Okay, based on how much W, X, Y, and Z employees get paid, this video series is a loss every episode because the viewer count is low plus we can output twice as much content if we split this group up and stagger our recording times."

It's always amusing to see people take an idea to the extreme conclusion. Someone asking about quick written/video summary equivalent to a community forum post or mailbag does not mean they want an hour long, edited video every week or a live recording of their production meetings. I just don't get it.

If they ended GameTapes before doing Konami E3 2010 I would be livid.

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@TechnoSyndrome said:

..features like Game Tapes..

Oh yea, Game Tapes. There's another show I like but is so infrequent that I forget it exists. As I mentioned, just curious as to why. Entitled seems too strong a word for me. Are they bored of it? Do they think they don't have any more worthwhile tapes? (they have an entire library apparently) Was the viewer count super low on them? Is it just not efficient for them to make content with more than two (three counting Jason)? Is the tape player broken?

While the crew does seem to do a bit of whatever they want, I get the impression they are smarter than that and actually look at the analytics and say "Okay, based on how much W, X, Y, and Z employees get paid, this video series is a loss every episode because the viewer count is low plus we can output twice as much content if we split this group up and stagger our recording times."

It's always amusing to see people take an idea to the extreme conclusion. Someone asking about quick written/video summary equivalent to a community forum post or mailbag does not mean they want an hour long, edited video every week or a live recording of their production meetings. I just don't get it.

I agree with that last bit there, anytime you make any sort of constructive effort to maybe try and change something, even if it is for the better, you are met with very weird pushback as if you're an aggressor of some sort to the website.

I don't know what sort of form something like this would take, but I would like a bit of heads up on why some shows leave completely or if a series will continue. The only reason I know why Bring Your B-Game continues to be absent (and is in fact cancelled it seems) is that I heard Vinny mention it offhand in some random video. I think it might have actually been an interview podcast done by a forum member on here. It's not that I want Vinny to disclose every detail of production to us, but it would be nice to know that hey, that show is definitely not coming back. They don't even have to break down the specifics of why - just a simple "it was too much effort / didn't have enough material / we didn't think it was working out" is good enough.

Like others have said, I would simply like this stuff to be put on the site. It's a little weird to mention how some show hasn't come up in a while or whatever and some in chat will point out how actually Jeff talked about this two weeks ago on his drive to work in between listening to bad satellite radio and buying snacks at the gas station - how could you have missed that?!

OF course this sort of thing will never happen, and who knows maybe it's for the best, but it would be nice once a while to know where the site is heading.

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Only if it's done via Jeff reading from a teleprompter dressed in his sunday best.