Should I get Hades if I hated Transistor?

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Zor

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Been thinking about getting Hades, since it looks interesting and it is getting a lot of praise, but am holding off on that since I thought the same for Transistor, and ended up hating that game. And I mean that, it is one of the only games I have ever return (to steam for a refund). My overall experience with games from Supergiant games has been:

Bastion - Enjoyed it, though, felt like I didn't get the most out of it (I ended up sticking to the same weapon for the majority of the game)

Transistor - Hated it. Bought it during a sale, and still thought it wasn't worth it. Didn't like the controls, story, combat, or the art.

Pyre - Didn't play it, didn't look interesting, and kind of wrote off the devs since I hated Transistor.

So given this, I was wondering what people thought on this question. If I should pick up Hades (and if do so, i'll probably end up doing it on my Switch) or not? I would post this on the Hades forums, except am pretty sure everyone on there is probably a fan of the game, so they would just respond with a 'yes' regardless. Also, i doubt there will be a demo of the game, since from what i can tell (based off steam pages) only Bastion has a demo. So yeah... whatca y'all think? Has anyone enjoyed Hades but also hated one of supergiant's previous games?

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Efesell

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I mean at bare minimum I think you will be more receptive towards the controls. It is a tighter more refined variation on Bastions gameplay.

It doesn't really sound like Supergiant is your cup of tea so while I think you would enjoy it just purely as a very well made roguelike I don't know whether the trappings around it would turn you away.

Watch some videos or somethin'.

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CreepingDeath0

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Nothing is stopping you from trying it and getting a Steam refund if you don't like it. 2 hours will be more than enough time to make up your mind.

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Onemanarmyy

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#4  Edited By Onemanarmyy

I will say that the frantic dashing around an isometric world to dodge attacks felt very much like Transistor to me. And the art definitly looks a lot alike as well. But i will say that the starting hours of Transistor's combat are hard to compare with Hades ,given that Transistor made you pause time to choose your attacks at that point. You could always play it for 2 hours on Steam and refund it if you don't like the feel of the combat. Like if the combat doesn't feel good to you in those 2 hours, you should probably not get the game.

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Ry_Ry

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I bounced pretty hard off Transistor, despite buying it on multiple platforms over the years. I never played Bastion, though I love the soundtrack. I've also never played Pyre.

Hades has been an absolute delight. I've been playing nearly every night on my Switch Lite and I wish I was playing it now. There's always something to do in the game and I keep getting better. FWIW, Hades is the first game since Bloodborne that I've stayed up past 10pm to continue playing. Last night I was up until 1pm.

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inevpatoria

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#6  Edited By inevpatoria

Really didn't like Transistor. Hades feels like it takes the right lesson from Transistor—that is, the myriad ways mixing and matching skills and weapon upgrades can lead to interesting new playstyles—and grafts it onto a much more enjoyable moment-to-moment loop. It plays like a high-stakes Diablo.

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jaqen_hghar

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I love Bastion, so I was bummed when Transistor didn't grab me. Something about the combat just never clicked, so despite liking the story, music and artwork I only played a few hours. Never did get Pyre.
I am loving Hades. It is without a doubt the best game they have made. Gameplay is extremely good, the story is intriguing and the art and music is top notch. I have played about 23 runs, 19 hours, and I almost feel like I have just scratched at the surface. A bunch of things are still not unlocked, and I love the mystery about what those things might be. They way they weave the story into this kind of rogue-like is really clever, and despite reaching the end four times now I am still itching to get in there and do it again. I haven't seen credits yet, after all!

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Onemanarmyy

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#8  Edited By Onemanarmyy

For the people that bounced of Transistor early, i will say that that game opens up in a way where i eventually had a build where i could just dash around the area in real time and hardly issued commands in pause-mode. The ability combinations were probably the highpoint of that game for me. It's not often that a combat system that presents itself as a strict 'pause & select attacks' type of game, is able to circumvent that whole system later on. I also loved how the challenges invited you to change up your abilities quite a bit and find new combinations to work with.

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BobbyDigital00

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I enjoyed Hades so much more than Transistor.

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ToughShed

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#10  Edited By ToughShed

Its much more like Bastion so that would be the comparison point. Although I think its a lot better personally. I wasn't a fan of Bastion so much and I think Hades is pretty great. The basic gameplay and everything from there has just been expanded and improved a ton.

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BisonHero

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I got literally every achievement in Transistor, but I'll agree that the gameplay of the first 2-4 hours of Transistor kinda sucks because you unlock powers and slots for said powers at a glacial pace. Also the pause-time-to-queue-up-moves isn't for everybody. It isn't until very late game in Transistor that you can actually try out cool combos of powers because you've finally grinded enough upgrades that you have more slots to do more cool stuff. Hades doesn't have this problem. You have to do a little Rogue Legacy-style grinding to get some good (mostly passive) upgrade perks back at your base, but most of the Gameplay in Hades is unlocked basically right away. They layer in a few systems as you go, but way more of the game is "available" from the very start.

I'm unclear on what you didn't like about the Transistor story, but the story of Hades is far less tragic and serious than Transistor and Pyre, if that was the issue; honestly the entire story of Hades is pretty breezy and lighthearted because there's no life-and-death stakes when everyone is immortal. Also I've seen plenty of streamers just button mash through the dialogue if you really want to ignore it, though personally I found the writing and characters quite likeable.

I mean, it's an isometric action game where the weapons aren't that different from Bastion, and a lot of the powerups and upgrades feel like some weird combination of Diablo 2 and Dota moves. You can watch the Quick Look to see if the pacing and gameplay of the game is something you'd be into.

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jamesyfx

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I would say yes.

I was lukewarm towards Bastion, couldn't get into Transistor at all.

Hades is great. I just want to keep fighting my way through. I just want to know more. And I'm also enjoying the quieter moments, just observing as the game does things around you.

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bigsocrates

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I loved Transistor and I love Hades, but I think they are extremely different games and I don't think disliking Transistor is a reason not to try Hades (though there's no guarantee you'll like it, of course.)

Hades has a totally different storytelling structure, different gameplay (it's much more about quick reactions and good builds than Transistor's more cerebral ability combo stuff) and a totally different tone.

If you liked Bastion (even if you didn't love it) and Hades looks good to you then it's worth a shot.

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bakoomerang

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Bastion was always one of those games that people seem to love and never really did anything for me. I think I tried playing Transistor for a little bit, but I can't remember anything about it which probably tells you all you need to know about how I felt about that game. I didn't play Pyre because it didn't seem like my kind of thing.

All that said, I think Hades is awesome! I would definitely recommend giving it a shot.

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Nuttism

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It makes me sad that so many people didn't like Transistor.

That is all.

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csl316

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Yeah, I never finished Transistor. I always felt underpowered, and despite a cool aesthetic and music it didn't hold my attention longer than a few hours.

Hades is the best game they've made, and one of the best games of the year. It's so well made and fun.

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Aistan

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As someone who played all 5.5 hours of Transistor and hated almost everything about it, yes you will probably enjoy Hades.

I do, at least.

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cstrang

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Hades is a much, much better game than Transistor, in my opinion at least.

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BisonHero

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@nuttism said:

It makes me sad that so many people didn't like Transistor.

That is all.

I liked Transistor a great deal, but I think it has faults. I'm still amazed the game released with its progression as is. I don't think the gameplay becomes truly fun until like New Game Plus where you roll over all your upgrades and can actually devise wild combos of abilities. It's really too slow and simple for most of the first playthrough when you barely have any abilities or slots to put them in. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into that decision, and they didn't want to overwhelm the player right out of the gate with too many abilities, but I think it resulted in a really dull first playthrough (gameplay-wise).

Other than that, I really thought the story and art and atmosphere of Transistor were great throughout, but that's up to personal taste, I guess.

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Nuttism

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@bisonhero: To me, the biggest problem with it is that the "planning" screen is annoying to use, as you can't scroll to see the rest of the field, and moving can be frustrating as you try to find the exact right spot where you can hit someone. I really do enjoy the combat overall though as someone who is terrible with action games as I simply don't have the reaction speed. The mixing is really interesting and I enjoy the difficulty options you have (though I wish it gave a *tiny* bit more exp).

What I really love about it is the beautiful aesthetic, music (all five vocal songs are incredible, and I still listen to them multiple times a week) and story. I personally can't stand silent protagonists, but Supergiant really made it work. I genuinely think it is up there with the best stories in gaming, and even outside of that. It both works on the surface, emotionally, and also as a work of literature you can endlessly read into. It has a lot to say, yet doesn't mince words saying it. The main character only expressing herself through her actions and songs she wrote before the process works really well because they put a lot of effort into making it feel natural.

For me, Pyre was the disappointing game even though a lot of people loved that. I even played through it twice, but it only made me like it less, which is the opposite of Transistor.

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mellotronrules

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#22  Edited By mellotronrules

FWIW i'm sorta in the same spot OP. the effusive praise has had me hovering over the 'buy' button for Hades a few nights now, but something is holding me back. i thought Bastion was very solid but not life-altering. Transistor had gorgeous art and some really interesting combat design, but i think they substantially undermined their storytelling with the methods they used to dole it out (it felt obscured without a purpose). i still need to check out Pyre.

i think i'll get to Hades eventually- i'm not naturally drawn to run-based games (i tend to 'beat' them once and set them down forever), and i'm kinda disinterested in greek mythology- but at the very least i trust the Supergiant pedigree to produce carefully crafted games with incredible art.

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plan6

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It is Greek Mythology told like Marvel's Thor, which is everyone kinda just knows each other and they are all super hot all the time. It is just a fun narrative told with an amazing amount of voice acting. The run based stuff barely feels like a rogue like, because honestly, you sometimes are looking forward to eating shit so you can get to more of that tasty narrative.

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clagnaught

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"Hate" is a strong word. As in, if you felt that strongly about Transistor, Hades may be a hard sell. That said, I think Hades is better than Transistor in a lot of ways, so I will say "Hades is better than Transistor".

This is a game that I want to shout from the mountain tops about how great it is, but if you were that negative on Transistor, it may not land for you.

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MagnetPhonics

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Hades is Supergiant's best game. It's much better that Transistor.

IMHO Hades is the game Bastion is hyped up to be. But not the game Hades itself is hyped up to be.

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yyninja

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I'm also part of the minority that liked Transistor, but I can without a doubt say that Hades is Supergiant's best game they've developed. Everything from the combat, art and design is so fine-tuned that I can't find much to criticize about.

If there is one thing that I think is weak about Hades is the music. I didn't find it any nearly as memorable or impactful as Bastion's "Setting Sail" or Transistor's "Paper Boats".

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Efesell

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Thread really making me wanna just say that Transistor is amazing.

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Tunnelman

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I’ve never enjoyed a Supergiant game before, every time I feel like I’ve gotta give the new one a shot because everyone loves it and every time I walk away shrugging. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Guess it’s how Abby must’ve felt about Nier, ha! Hades I think I’m finally going to skip out entirely, I feel like if three others of their games haven’t done anything for me this one probably won’t either.

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Humanity

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@efesell said:

Thread really making me wanna just say that Transistor is amazing.

I mean it certainly looked nice.

I think both Transistor and Pyre really skated through many shortcomings by the strength of the great art design. The gameplay was alright, but it's the story, the voice acting, the music - the whole "show" that keeps you engaged. Although I haven't played Hades myself, from everything I've seen it's the first game where the gameplay part has finally caught up with the production values.

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Efesell

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@humanity: Well personally I would say that the gameplay of Transistor and Pyre is perfectly on par with the production and that Hades is probably the first time that the best aspect is how it plays and the rest of it is complimentary.

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Ulfhedinn

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Being a fan of Supergiant games I couldn't get into Transistor, it was just odd for me.
But I LOVE Hades and when I start a session I can barely stop playing.

It's a different game but at the same Supergiant game in it's core. I would suggest trying it and then inevitably falling in love with it.

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ToughShed

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I get why some don't' like Pyre, but it has really good gameplay for what it is, its just an extremely obscure niche genre of tactical sports games. Not an example of bad gameplay from them.

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Humanity

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@efesell said:

@humanity: Well personally I would say that the gameplay of Transistor and Pyre is perfectly on par with the production and that Hades is probably the first time that the best aspect is how it plays and the rest of it is complimentary.

Definitely different strokes for different folks and all that, but for me I could always sort of see the limitations they were working with when it came to raw gameplay. I hate to use the term "gimmick" - maybe "calling card" is a more positive spin on the idea - but Supergiant is very much known for the use of voice work, art design and music in a very particular way. To their credit it is very hard to mistake a Supergiant game for anything else. I don't think they are equally well regarded for their gameplay, but this may be due to all their games being so radically different from one another where their studio identity is very much tied to aesthetics rather than genre.

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Zuljin

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Yes for me - Supergiant is really hitting a harmony with this one, all of the stuff they've done well in the past in one package.
I love it because it is basically a run-based diablo (combat style) with really creative storytelling.

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UltimAXE

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Personally, I loved Bastion. I enjoyed Transistor but did burn out on it after 6 hours and didn't finish it. I loved Pyre but was pretty horrible at The Rites and played it on "I'm a hopeless baby" difficulty. Hades I am currently super in love with at like 33 hours played. Supergiant certainly has a distinct style - a look and a sound - to their games, but aside from that, all four of them are in completely different genres, with the only comparisons worth drawing being between Bastion and Hades. This is all quite loose and general, but:

Bastion is an isometric action game. Transistor is a turn based strategy game. Pyre is a sports game. Hades is an isometric action game with "Rogue" elements.

That being said, I'd say that if you enjoyed Bastion, then odds are that you'll get a real kick out of Hades. Now, if you for some reason don't like the way that Supergiant games look and sound and tell their stories, then, yeah, their games probably just aren't for you.

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VikingRk

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I know the two games are made by the same people so the comparison is natural, but they are wildly different things. It feels to me like asking "I hate Assassin's Creed, will I like Halo?" There's just no way to know based on that. I haven't played Bastion since it came out originally but that feels like a much better point of comparison in terms of gameplay.

All I can tell you is if you like roguelikes/lites at all, Hades is up there with the best I've ever played. If you hate those kinds of games, you probably won't like Hades.

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Ravelle

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#38  Edited By Ravelle

I also didn't like transistor but I love Hades! Go for it, it's a blast!

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Zelyre

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@vikingrk said:

All I can tell you is if you like roguelikes/lites at all, Hades is up there with the best I've ever played. If you hate those kinds of games, you probably won't like Hades.

I haven't played a Roguelike/lite that I didn't immediately bounce off of. I think the closest one I came to liking was FTL, and that was a game I only found fun at the airport/on a plane. I may have 3-4 hours in Dead Cells. I've walked away from many rogue-likes after a death or two thinking, "That was an utter waste of time." I also bounced hard off other Super Giant games, despite loving the aesthetic and music of Transistor and Bastion.

I have over 50 hours in Hades - I think I ended up doing a 6 hour marathon of it one day. At my advanced age and jadedness, I find hanging in with games for an hour at a time a struggle, so to walk away from a game and find out a whole day had passed? That's some Anton Ego stuff right there - taking me back to ten year old me, eyes blood shot as I stared at the credits of Super Mario 3.

There is a lot of story there, and each run, successful or not uncovers more and more.

The core gameplay loop is incredibly fun. To me, it feels like a Super Mario game. Base Zag with his dash controls well. There are enough weapons that one should meld well with your play style.

I also feel like it's the least 'rogue-like' rogue-like I've played as so much of your progress carries over - I think it's why I enjoy it so much. I can have a run I know is going to be bad, and I have tons of fun shifting my focus to gems/darkness/ambrosia farming.

Even if you're not a great player, Hades is happy to assist. Permanent upgrades come cheap at first, and you can make it 2-3 rooms, die, and come out with rewards that carry over. There is a god mode, which is damage reduction that continues to scale up the more you die.

It's strange - thinking about it, Hades seems like it would do really well with a demo that was just the first area. But lingering on that thought, it feels like such a limited demo would also give a false impression of the game.

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Zor

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Wow, first off, thank you all for responding, i honesty didn't think I would get this much feedback. I made a post yesterday, and figure I would check in a day or two and find like 3 comments, which I was totally cool with. So yeah, this is awesome.

Second, alright, after reading the 38 (damn that's a lot) comments, I think y'all convince me to get Hades. The only question now (for me) is to decide if I should 'rent' it on steam first, or just dive in a buy it on my switch. But that's something for me to figure out this weekend.

Anywho, thank you all, again.

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Efesell

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@zor: Anecdotal but I do find the performance on the Switch version to be just noticeable enough to trip me up in how fast paced I play this game.

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VikingRk

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@zelyre: One of the most interesting things about it is that while challenging, it never feels punishing, and despite dying over and over to the same boss, you won't feel like you're banging you're head against a wall. It's all the best things about roguelikes without any of the inherent frustration.

I have a habit of clenching my jaw and holding tension in my shoulders leading to migraines. As such, I have to be really careful about how long I play certain kinds of games. Hades is a rare game where the action is intense but I also find it relaxing to play.

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1337W422102

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I don't know, my duder. If you're not sure, get it on Steam but keep an eye on the timer! Don't hit two hours without making your choice. If it doesn't grab you, refund and walk away. No pressure.

I love me some everloving hell out of Bastion, but I've been consistently disappointed by everything these guys have done since. I love their look, I love their music, I love their vibe, but I'm through giving them chances and money.

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MagnetPhonics

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#44  Edited By MagnetPhonics

@vikingrk: Thats not my experience. It was fun a fun challenge at first. But I had the misfortune of having a relatively early good run that got me all the way to Hades (and his second healthbar) before losing. Which the game took as a cue to make the early game much more difficult, but my avenues to improve Zagreus' abilities are still severely limited and/or gated.

It took me another 20 runs to get as far. And basically every run now is a frustrating death due to not knowing the actual hitbox of an attack (vs what is drawn on screen) or learning the unwritten qualifiers of the boons.

or dying to a mob of enemies that instantly went an hid behind an opaque foreground object.

or dying to an almost dead Hades, and the last sound you hear being the CLANK of your shield successfully blocking the attack that apparently still damaged and killed you.

I honestly think 90% of people who love this game only had 1 or 2 fights with Hades before beating him, so confuse this ridiculous difficulty wall with challenging post/late-game content.

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inevpatoria

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#45  Edited By inevpatoria

@zor:Switch player here with no experience on PC. I hear the PC version is excellent but I've had zero issues on the Switch.

@magnetphonics: Maybe I'm mistaken and that mistake is only reinforced by my personal anecdotal experience, but I'm pretty certain what you're describing here—

I had the misfortune of having a relatively early good run that got me all the way to Hades (and his second healthbar) before losing. Which the game took as a cue to make the early game much more difficult, but my avenues to improve Zagreus' abilities are still severely limited and/or gated.

—is not really how the game's difficulty works. There's no overt adaptive response to your play, at least in terms of enemy health or damage, and the Boons you receive are largely a function of RNG. The inverse would've happened if the above statement were true. After a handful of decisive beatdowns, you would experience the game letting up, giving you access to more powerful Boons, more upgrades, or more keys. The whole thing would have given you more passes, not let you flounder for 20 runs.

If I had to bet, I'd be willing to say you ran aground of two things: Having to actually learn the patterns and hazards presented by the early-to-mid game bosses, and having to earn/apply meaningful upgrades.

Without coming off too harshly, it sounds like you got lucky early and regressed toward the mean as you kept playing.

I think the game does not do a great job explaining all its various resources and the best way to spend them. For that reason it's actually kind of easy to unintentionally mismanage how you're spending Darkness shards or Keys or Daedalus Hammers or whatever. And that can super-duper put you in a hole in the early game. Once you open the multiple tiers of mirror upgrades, though, the game very quickly becomes more controllable.

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wollywoo

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@zor said:

Transistor - Hated it. Bought it during a sale, and still thought it wasn't worth it. Didn't like the controls, story, combat, or the art.

Forgetting all that, it's worth it just for the music.

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MagnetPhonics

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@inevpatoria: I know I got lucky on that first run. But I'm not talking about random things in the game getting harder/doing more damage. I mean things like the Sneaks/Floating hands appearing in Tartarus, or the Bone Hydra suddenly spawning extra minions during the fight.

My working theory was that these changes are triggered by reaching, not beating, Hades. But it also could be that they just trigger after X runs. In which case my point still stands that anyone that beat Hades before that point would see it as post/late game challenge.

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MightyDuck

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I thought Bastion was alright, Transistor had a great art style, but I couldn't get into the gameplay.

I feel Hades really nails both the gameplay and art style perfectly.

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VikingRk

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@magnetphonics: So I saw all that stuff before beating Hades. Most if not all of it before seeing Hades. I definitely am not confused about it being late-game content.

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XENOPST

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@zor: I bounced off of Transistor after 2.9 hours (according to Steam) but I have put 84.4 hours into Hades. I have beat the final boss 12 times. The only thing that Transistor and Hades have in common is the 10/10 Supergiant Style (the only thing that kept me going thru Transistor) and the music from Darren Korb/Ashley Barrett.