@blueaniman93: But due to Nintendo's attempts to appeal more to the "casual" audience, the "hardcore" audience doesn't even care when Nintendo releases games that are intended to appeal to them. Two 3D Mario platformers and a 2D Mario platformer, Mario Kart, Paper Mario (not an RPG, but still a Paper Mario game), Zelda, Fire Emblem, Metroid Prime 3, Metroid: Other M (not everyone's cup of tea, but it's still Metroid), Donkey Kong Country, Kirby, Smash Bros., Pokemon, Pikmin 3 eventually. The only "hardcore" Nintendo franchises I can think of that haven't been seen on the Wii (aside from Virtual Console re-releases) are F-Zero and Star Fox. They've been as committal as I could hope for from a company that's also trying to appeal to a completely different audience.
@Pinworm45: They are making a new system that will probably be more traditional to recapture a market that they have somewhat lost and because "casual" gamers are probably not ready or willing to buy a new system for another 5-10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo started staggering console releases between "traditional" and "non-traditional" from this point forward. The only reason they care about third-parties is to capture the hardcore market, so they can corner both sides of the games market.
It has nothing to do with any failure on the Wii's part. They could not release a new system for a few years and still make a decent profit on Wii system sales and first-party releases. It would start to fall off more than it already has, but they aren't "abandoning" the Wii because it wasn't working out for them. Those game sales are great. The cost of making the games that you're saying aren't "real" games were probably significantly lower than Galaxy and Twilight Princess. If anything, they made more of a profit on the "half-price" games like Wii Play than they did on Smash Bros.
They're still making a lot of cash off Wii System sales, and their games are still selling well (and almost all of them have a long tail). It's not that the Wii method has failed them, to any degree. It's that the Wii has been such a success that they've decided to try to retake the other market, too.
Basically, we agree that them returning to the hardcore market (with an affordable competitive system) after the Wii is the smartest thing they can do. I just think they're doing it from a position of victory, not defeat.
EDIT: Why do you keep saying these games are selling for far less? Because they're $10 cheaper at launch? Most of those games are still full price (until the recently announced "Select" series kicks in). Most of the 360 hit titles are half-price or less now. And it's much cheaper to develop a Wii game than a 360 or PS3 game. Developers can make a profit quicker, and with less sales, on the Wii. That's why the Wii gets so much shovelware (in addition to tricking consumers who don't know any better).
Nintendo has always been courting its hardcore audience. What Nintendo needs to do is get 3rd party support on par with its competitors. And if the rumors are true, Project Cafe might be a step in the right direction.
I don't mind Nintendo going after non-gamers, they really did try to grow the market. I just wish it didn't seem like they were abandoning their long-time fans. Nintendo makes a lot of odd decisions.
" Apparent sources are saying that at E3 Nintendo will anounce a return to its hardcore audience, but is this the right move? Nintendo's hardcore audience is different to the hardcore audiences of the other consoles, the hardcore audience of Nintendo are the fans of Metroid other M and Zelda. These franchises have appeared on the Wii, so not sure whether a move to a market dedicated on these titles would alienate there mass fan base of casual gamers? "
The problem with ideas like this are that there is no such thing as a "hardcore audience".
It's a buzz word that doesn't mean anything. When some gamers say "hardcore" they're talking incredibly easy button mashing games featuring blood, breasts and gravel voiced anti-heroes with shaved heads. When other gamers talk "hardcore", they mean games with lots of content that can be played for hours. When still yet other gamers talk hardcore, they just mean games that push graphics as the main focus of the experience.
Until hardcore means something, no, I don't think Nintendo will pursue it. I do think they will court beign a platform that gets 3rd part ports, though.
I would not mind at all if they just carried on doing what they were doing right now, would make it alot easier when it comes to choosing which console to get next generation.
I dont' believe Nintendo can recapture anything without a _very_ strong online presence. I am talking about something that is better than what the 360 and PS3 have for online play/community. If the DSI/WII/3DS have shown us anything it is that Nintendo sucks at this. At the same time, if they do it like (or better) than xbox live or PSN, you now have parents _freaking_ out that their little kids can mario brothers with _anyone_.
I personally would love them to return to solid gameplay instead of horrible gimicks. N64/Gamecube/etc.... some of my favorite systems of all time. The Wii?, a cool device for maybe a week or 2 or when you have some friends around just for the hell of it, but other than that I hate it.
My whole argument is that I am not sure whether Nintendo with there next console are trying to target the Sony, Microsoft core gamer or their own core who have been left severely wanting over the last couple of years? As they appear to be two clearly different demographics.
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