Should the GB creators start a new way of providing content?

This is going to be controversial, but I'm honestly asking this as a question because I don't know the answer. I have never produced content for a site like GB nor have I done Twitch or Youtube.

Here's my premise: Giant Bomb's niche is that it still provides a talented community of creators that collaborate regularly and provide access to industry insiders. That premise is not unalterable, I'm willing to be wrong.

So do we still need the website? Maybe. For the purpose of archiving all the great old content. Do we need it for the new content though? That's my question.

So I pay for Nextlander, Giant Bomb, and Jeff G. the Man Himself. I gladly pay for all three because I love the content they create. However, now I want to Patreon Jess as well. Ok fine, but what if we could just directly pay the creators we love the most AND still get the benefit of collaboration? I sometimes get to see Abbie on Nextlander, I watch Fire Escape content even though I don't directly contribute. All these guys have ties to each other, loose and strong.

Why not create something less centralized, but more directly beneficial to the CREATORS. A...United States of Bomb, if you will. The States would each be a creator and directly take Patreon funds. The United Part would be tons of collab content that would have two major advantages:

1. Collaborative content is just easier to do. You have someone to riff off and you don't have to entertain chat for 8 hours by yourself.

2. You cross-pollinate fans and make sure you always have more eyes on your solo stuff. If I watch Dan's stuff and see Grubb and Jan on his show, I'm more likely to Patreon them.

Is a "creator ring" like this more profitable? You won't have a middleman anymore and there is no centralized building to worry about anymore. You can always cover big events together to have a strong web presence on big events like E3 and Directs without having to have every member of the ring cover every event. All the advantages of a big website like GB with none of the overhead and corporate leechery.

Like I said, I'm not a content creator, so someone on staff may read this and just laugh it off because I don't know the business. I do know that direct income is better than having someone take a cut, and I know that I like GB personalities together better than solo (with no offense to anyone, I just think people are funnier in groups). Any reason this couldn't work?

(PS. I don't know what relationships anyone has with each other personally. I'm not suggesting that Nextlander would collab with Jeff or current GB or whatever without their consent, lol. This is purely a "people who like to work together would work together for the greater good and the greater signal boost of all" kind thing.)

The issue with an idea like that is there actually is a middleman: Patreon or whatever funding platform you use. For a consortium like that to make sense each of the "staff" would need to make close to what they make now, including the health benefits and other benefits that come from working for Fandom. So you would end up asking a bunch of people with their own discrete audiences and proven funding to risk that by combining into one group that is larger than GB has ever been. That seems like the math just won't work out for all involved. And that doesn't even get to how they would need to split the funds and who would administer the corporation. I think it would just be a risky logistical nightmare for not a lot of gain.

I understand that an initiative similar to this can only happen when there's nothing to lose, kind of like when this site was born. I know that's not the case right now (at least for all involved, I don't know how are Jason and Jess holding on), but I also see that this site is falling stale of content. Sekirochoa, Arcade Pit, Borne to Run, Very Online Show are all greatly missed, they came from people who are still in the company but current circumstances do not allow them to happen.

And it really feels like a pity to have the GB extended family (I would add Waypoint to the list as well), all these people we are fans of, that know each other, that strike gold when they work together, all spread appart or on their own. While this site feels empty.

I really like the idea proposed by @auspexao , as improbable to apply as it is, and as much energy (something that I feel has been drained) it would take, because I feel there's a need for a plan. It's way better than the usual way to express frustration with the current situation. I am not smart enough to come up with a solution, but I feel there's a need for one.

@catlicker: Nobody involved with Arcade Pit is currently on staff, fwiw.

I could only see something like that working if everyone lived within driving distance of each other and could make new great content in person. All these people you like live all over the place. Whatever collaborative effort they want to do they can just do streaming. Something they are already doing. Trying to combine them all into one group sounds like a nightmare financially. If someone like Jeff G joins and brings all of his Patreon subscribers with him, is he splitting that money with everyone? A lot of these people have other jobs too and just stream on the side. With kids and family stuff they may not have time do anymore collaborative content anyways. I think we just have to except the new way of life. Your favorite people are split up. It’s up to you if you want to support them financially. I recently dropped Nextlander from my Patreon. The podcasts with ads are fine for me.

What you are describing is a multi-channel network. It is one of the ways you can survive in the content creation business. Patreon is another, or being employed by Fandom, or being a freelancer. I'm sure all GB staff know their options. And everyone can't just leave their job and get 5000 patreons like Gerstmann. It's a gamble.

My guess is that the current staff prefers the benefits of being employed, and also actually enjoy working at the site with the content they create.

But I agree, it is hard to see the point of GB at its current state with very little content coming out and everyone working from home. I also don't understand the current business model where all content can be viewed on Youtube for free. I have no interest in the Discord server, so I'm not paying anymore and the only difference is that I get ads in the podcast.

In the current games media market, it just wouldn't work. The Nextlander guys left because they didn't want to be a part of another corporate transition. I think Jeff wanted to leave years ago, but the pandemic scared him off of doing that until he got resettled. These guys have their own brands and a following that will support them without having to be someone's employee. I don't see this staff being able to all come together to collaborate and share a pool of resources when really what they're trying to do is build their personal brand, rather than the brand of the website they work for.

Everyone sees the lack of output as it is. Games media is really tough right now and if you have something that's yours, you don't share. I do like that GB brings in Abby, Patrick, Ben and the Nextlander crew, but it's only a treat for the audience. They're not providing more content for the site than what would already be here. And if GB were to host a new series with regulars who aren't staff (much like Arcade Pit), that's yet another expense they may not be able to afford.

Long story short, these buyouts have really hurt. If Jeff and the gang could do it over again, I'm sure they would have gone the Kinda Funny route and be owners rather than employees. But that's long in the past. What Giant Bomb is now is not what it was and it's not what it will be. What I want from the site is for the current staff to be fans of the website they work for. Stop planning so much and turn on the damn cameras and have fun. It's a website about video games!

I'll just be happy if the site gets back to giving us the content when it's made.

Maximum Fun, CBB world, HEI network

All examples of group that, from the outside, appear to be creator owned without corporate ownership and don’t require Patreon. Maybe I’m wrong?

I would agree that it may not make financial sense for everyone in the extended GB universe, and would be a ton of work to get off the ground, but it feels like a neat idea to me, assuming anyone who used to work at GB even wants to be involved anymore.

Honestly, I’d be surprised if there is a GB as we know it by GOTY time 2023, but maybe something new?

@mooseman: in the case CBB World, Scott Aukerman came out of Earwolf getting bought with a pretty big payout, and also it running a lot of his shows out of he rather large Hollywood hills home, where a ton of the other people involved live near. Not to mention the audience is way bigger than Giant Bomb likely ever was. Plus, lots of celebrities willing to come guest on his shows. AND he has lots of other options for income since he has written, produced and directed movies, TV shows and other media. His livelihood was never really on the line like it would be for Giant Bombs crews comparatively modest incomes. And CBB world has already had some attrition, with Andy Daly taking his podcast Bonanas for Bonaza to…Patreon, presumably because he has enough of his own following to make that the more profitable prospect. I imagine other folks with large enough careers making shows on CBB world are potentially considering the same move.

My understanding is that Maximum Fun, also likely with a much wider audience than GB has ever had, followed a more grassroots, PBS style funding approach with pledge drives. I believe they are also technically a registered non-profit, saving them a ton in taxes. And also, most the hosts are also celebrities in their own rights with whole other careers going on to fall back on, mostly producing podcasts because they enjoy doing it and also it gives them promotion for their other projects.

Conan going independent from Earwolf is also not really comparable, since he is literally doing his podcast mostly because he is semi-retired and doing it mostly just because he likes it and is rich enough to have that sort of hobby. And again, and audience that being a TV fixture for nearly 30 years has built.

I dunno what HEI network is, and thus I don’t know if it would be the better comparison for what GB could do. So I can’t really comment on that.

I’m not saying it would be impossible, but it would be exceedingly risky for all GB folks involved.

i understand the fan perspective on this- but i dunno; seems like an awful lot of risk to shoulder if there isn't a fire in one's belly to get it done. not to mention- if staff were to divest themselves from the Giant Bomb brand in the hopes of forming something new- they absolutely would lose people in the transition.

if 9 content creators pulled together for a Patreon endeavor. At an absolute extreme bare minimum, you would need 7500 monthly subscribers

If you took the nextlander model and had a $5, $10, $25, and $100 a month model, you could average $7 per month per subscriber.

So 7500 * $7 * 12 months is $630,00 a year. minus 20% for admin/patreons cut you would get $472,500.

divide that by 9, and you would get $52,500 per year per person, and no benefits. Which is maybe just barely possible something they could try to live on.

i pay the max for both Nextlander and JG's Patreon, so maybe I'm a little optimistic that you could get way more than 7500 subscribers for how awesome GB would be without corporate influence. But that might just be me.

@drbroel: yeah, exactly. I mean, I only make about $52000 a year myself, but I have a government job with union representation, fantastic medical benefits and a pension when I retire. Self employed folks at $52k a year then have to pay their own medical benefits, which considering most of them have families, and are in their 30s and 40s where doctors visits become a much more regularly needed thing, would essentially eat likely 2/3rds to all of that. Then they rely on their partners if they have them for all other expenses, which is not a great way to live. And next to nothing for retirement other than Roth IRAs, which don’t come to much compared to 401k or pensions since there is no contribution matching.

The loss of medical alone would and should give anyone with a family real pause before making a risky move like that. Single, childless and in your early 20s, sure, risks seem a lot less risky. But when the health of yourself and your family could lead you to medical bankruptcy, it’s a much bigger and potentially disastrous step to take.

I get it. It sucks. It shouldn’t be this way. But it is. And thus must be considered. Nextlander is a exceptional edge case, and they were very smart about their timing in getting out, their business plan, the audience they had already built over a decade and two of them don’t have kids. They are a small team, and would have to stay small for the most part. Also, just realistically, there was a lot of luck to back up their smart decisions, and could have (and frankly, one day likely will) have that income stream dry up.

@tartyron: Ah, all that makes perfect sense, thanks for a nice summation.

HEI network is Tim Heidecker’s thing, so carries some of the same status and audience size you mentioned for my other examples.

I also agree it would be nice if content just got posted at least - it feels like Fandom is somehow restricting content right? Or at least putting a lot of non content demands on people’s time. Popular features are dropping off the radar right and left. My fav thing right now is JJBA and it’s obvious they are barely committing an hour every two weeks to it

I agree that Fandom doesn't post a lot of content