So this has been bugging me/A plea to Brad and Patrick

This is either elaborate flame bait or just a shitty opinion. I'm thinking it's more of the first one though.

Yes, clearly, Brad's fault is that he didn't play enough doom.

A legitimate criticism is that neither of them knew for sure whether it was a remake of the first game or not, a simple bit of checking would have worked that out but seriously, we're just watching 2 dudes play a game with their OPINIONS. And that's fine.

@vinsanityv22 said:

I really don't think this is snobbish. But whatever; "gaming snob" beats "mainstream gamers" any day of the week.

LOL

Yea, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one bud. Definitely similar to DOOM in a lot of ways.

Yeah fuck Brad, he never played Doom or Doom 2, especially not recently!

Boy am I here late.

I think the thread creator is whining about all the wrong things. Patrick didn't know which meter was for health and which one was for armor, Brad constantly brought up the TAB menu to look at the amount of souls he has when it's right there on the fucking screen and so on.

Also Painkiller is fucking awesome, right up there with Doom.

I think that brad/patricks original point that got lost in the shuffle here is that painkiller and serious sam are heavily influenced by the gameplay of games like doom and quake. The point is not that painkiller is literally identical in terms of design to doom, because its not.

But that still does not excuse the sloppyness of the quicklook in general. As a painkiller fan, it was tough to watch them fumble through explaining the games mechanics when they obviously have not played the original game. Also, what was up with them not knowing this is a remake of a selection of levels from painkiller and battle out of hell. Thats not exactly hidden knowledge. As a profesional I would have been embarassed to put my name on that hot mess of a quicklook. I can't speak for the giantbomb staff but if I was them I would recommend spending 30mins reading up on something so I could have an informed opinion.

If you don't like their opinion, find another website.

@cannonballBAM said:

If you don't like their opinion, find another website.

Thats not how opinions work, sorry

@George_Hukas said:

@cannonballBAM said:

If you don't like their opinion, find another website.

Thats not how opinions work, sorry

That's your opinion, Sorry.

Since we're dealing with this travesty, Drew (and potentially Alexis) should play more Halo. Especially the first three.

Yea this thread sucks. Pain Killer, Serious Sam are direct Doom knock offs. Just because you may feel Doom somehow made you want to explore the maps more has nothing to do with anything. You dont exclude due to "appealing" level design lol.

I really wish Dave actually went back and played Blade Runner.

I love Painkiller and I don't like Serious Sam. Mainly because of the weapons in both games.

So the leveling down in this thread has me ALL KINDS OF PISSED!

@cannonballBAM said:

@George_Hukas said:

@cannonballBAM said:

If you don't like their opinion, find another website.

Thats not how opinions work, sorry

That's your opinion, Sorry.

You just got opinioned!

Pointless whining blinded by nostalgia. What a waste of my time this thread was.

@George_Hukas said:

@cannonballBAM said:

If you don't like their opinion, find another website.

Thats not how opinions work, sorry

How is that not how opinions work? If I didn't agree with the Giant Bomb guys, I'd go somewhere else. It's the same reason why I go here and not to IGN or something.

@vinsanityv22: Did you just tell the staff to go back and play more Doom?

I don't think you realize how funny that is.

Congratulations, you've discovered that DOOM is a better game than Painkiller. Better go write a thousand words about it!

@BisonHero said:

I don't find Patrick annoying like the haters, but it doesn't feel like he's bringing the wealth of knowledge or any personal opinions to a QL like the other staff members;

Yeah I'm with you. I like Patrick fine personality-wise and think he's a great addition to the staff here (despite our gaming opinions and sense of humour being almost completely opposite) but his knowledge seems limited. I would be totally fine with that except that it seems like he either doesn't realize it or is trying to hide it.

And Brad? Well fuck that, Brad's a 10/10 in my books.

Err, sorry, I mean a 5-Stars in my books.

@vinsanityv22 said:

@

I really don't think this is snobbish. But whatever; "gaming snob" beats "mainstream gamers" any day of the week.

Some of the rest of you; c'mon! Are you seriously telling me you prefer uber-linear, freedom-less, "loaded with invisible walls", move-from-set-piece-to-set-piece level designs to levels that give you freedom? There's nothing confusing about Doom's level designs. Or Quake. Or Unreal. Maybe if I were talking about... I dunno, Jedi Knight or something - THAT was confusing. But still, I'd take confusing and open over very clear and very linear. At least then, it's up to ME to keep the game going. Not just being pushed along the developer's boring idea of a thrill ride. Modern games don't even care if you do anything; they have AI characters who will complete 99% of the actions for you, just to move you along to the same uninspired set pieces you've seen a thousand times before. That's backwards. I'm sorry. I don't care what you say, whether you like Doom or not. Doom was actually a game. A lot of current stuff is too much on autopilot.

Sometimes it's fun to just shoot shit, you know? Not that there's anything wrong with Doom but if I wanted to spend most of my time exploring large levels I'd rather play something like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex.

Sounds to me like you are taking this too seriously. Also I like modern shooters (some of them) so I don't really agree with you on most of your issues.

@Video_Game_King said:

@vinsanityv22 said:

the "We're just a linear theme park attraction"-kind of crap from Call of Battlefield: Warfighter.

Mainly because shooters from the 90s largely consisted of wondering just where the hell you were or where you were supposed to go.

this.

@vinsanityv22 said:

Anyone see the Painkiller HD Quick Look? *sigh*

Look, I love the GB crew. But Patrick and Brad get on my nerves sometimes. Brad... he just needs to familiarize himself with games a WHOLE lot more before leading a Quick Look on them. Patrick; he's a fine journalist. A lot of the features he does for the site are eye opening and compelling. But he's a terrible REVIEWER. Whatever seems to be the general opinion of a game on the internet is his opinion, automatically. All the time. He does for Sonic games. And he did it for Painkiller. It's obviously not coming from personal experience - why must it be restated as fact?

What I'm talking about, specifically, is his claim that Painkiller and Serious Sam are basically modern day Doom.

I wish, desperately, that you guys would go back and actually play Doom. Or one of the mods for it (might I suggest Brutal Doom?).

I know it's the cliche, lazy internet thing to do, but comparing Painkiller and Serious Sam to Doom is just insulting Doom. They're completely mindless games; the Dynasty Warriors of shooters. I'm not saying they're not fun - I'm just saying, Doom did a lot more. And you guys should give credit to it instead of regurgitating the internet opinion that these new, dumb shooters are just like Doom.

I mean c'mon. Doom may have been "Go from point A to point B", but it didn't mindlessly throw enemies at you. It was as much about exploring Phobos as it was about battling the demons of Hell. Those levels were not linear, they weren't mere arenas to trap the player in. They had a really effective sense of place. They were loaded with secrets. You weren't just blazing through levels; you were looking for everything. And those environments were so effective, I bet you STILL know which wall hides the Chainsaw is in the first couple of levels.

Shooters today... their level designs are dogshit. Not just this "lock you in an arena until you kill x swarms of bad guys" stuff from Painkiller and Serious Sam, but also the "We're just a linear theme park attraction"-kind of crap from Call of Battlefield: Warfighter. Games from the 90's were FAR more ambitious; they really tried to establish these locales as places. There were way less invisible walls; there were tons of corridors and room and the way they were connected MADE SENSE. Make fun of color coded key cards all you want, but compare those levels to MOH: Warfighter and all of sudden, key cards look pretty awesome. It's astounding how backwards shooter design has gone.

Seriously, Patrick, Brad - I'm BEGGING you. Go back and play some older shooters. They're better than most modern shooters. They deserve more credit from you. Do another couple Quick Look throwbacks, like you did for Deus Ex.

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE.

When I was watching the quicklook, I literally kept saying in my head "why does he keep comparing doom and serious sam?". I was legitimately confused. Doom is to Serious Sam what Mario was to Sonic. They were the same genre, generally, but serious sam was almost a Spoof of doom, focusing on all the low brow stuff and eschewing the things that people might find tedious or difficult.

And as far as palying Doom, I wrote a post al ong time ago where I was shocked to find out that almost nobody at Giant Bomb had ever played Doom without the cheats on. So, basically, they had no idea what Doom was supposed to be. They just ran through a few levels shooting monster sprites and watching badly drawn blood come out of it. And they thought that was Doom.

It's annoying that these kind of people have so much influence over the games industry.

@vinsanityv22 said:

But he's a terrible REVIEWER. Whatever seems to be the general opinion of a game on the internet is his opinion, automatically. All the time. He does for Sonic games. And he did it for Painkiller. It's obviously not coming from personal experience - why must it be restated as fact?

:/ why you so absolutist bro just stick to your specific issue don't denounce him in this totally uncalled for way.

@JazGalaxy said:

It's annoying that these kind of people have so much influence over the games industry.

Purchasing dollars are what influence the gaming industry. Individual titles get some amount of push from being slagged (or not: see Resident evil 6), but larger trends are purely a matter of what people are on the whole saying what they want (via what they buy - not what they claim to want). Apparently there are more people who dislike being lost in a maze more than there are people who enjoy that experience (although, I can agree it is a shame that even when a indie goes out they make arena shooters rather then attempting a Doom clone).

I do agree that when a remake like Painkiller or Doom shows up that they do a throwback quick look to the original to see what they improved if anything.

@Fredchuckdave said:

Painkiller is a modern version of Doom, hate to break it to you bud. I guess if Painkiller had color coded key cards you'd like it more? Or if you automatically aimed everything?

Have to agree with this. I kind of get where OP is coming from on an emotional level. Like if i really LOVE a game and see the guys kind of miss stuff about it or not be knowledgeable about it, it makes me sad, but it snot something they are doing thats life. People just have different experiences with stuff and that's ok. (for example I think space sim stuff, or really any sim stuff is like boring busy work and not a game but the GB guys are into it and i would watch their coverage to see if I am missing anything) But you have a weird fight here. In my opinion if you stacked out the components of each game they would be pretty similar. Go into room. Monsters. Shoot monsters.

@Video_Game_King: To second you. That old "its a maze" philosophy was even tougher with the early 3d graphics I felt like i was in a single pane of grey in later levels of Wolfenstein as opposed to a hallway or a room. I mean watch that Doom II breaking Brad where they are pixel hunting for like grey or brown tile to open the wall.

If you don't like watching Quick Looks with Brad or Patrick, don't watch them. There are a million other things you could do instead.

@gizmo88: Looks to me he already has a hobby.

@shepdelonge said:

They are not tradeshow demos showing you how to perfectly play the game, they are take them as they are. Regular guys playing the game, some of the enjoyment from them comes from 'pulling a Brad'.

There has to be a middle ground between "perfect play" and "functionally retarded." You know what happens when I load up a game? I look at the controls. And I'm pretty regular.

I don't agree with this thread. Brad and Patrick, I have a plea for your, don't listen to this guy. Keep being awesome.

It's nice to have variety in personalities. Not everyone needs to be the same. They each bring something different to the table.

@vinsanityv22: The only bad part about the Painkiller Quick Look was the lack of bunny hopping.