The loss of Gamestop is the loss of videogame democracy. Too big to fail!

I don't know about you guys but looking at the footage for Six Days in Fallujah chills me in a certain way. If this game doesn't get a physical release I may NEVER play this game. As Gamestop loses its relevance and store shelves are devoid of anything but the top 50 games, yet alone actual used copies of these top 50 games (Waco, Texas has a copy do you want me to call them) in plentiful fashion, means that unless i pre-order (here come the drones about pre-orders) and since all of my friends are almost totally digital buyers i will have to actually spend real money to experience this title. It won't be part of a buy 2 get the 3rd free promotion. Nor will it be $0.99 like i saw metal gear solid V the other day. This game will probably require me to be subscribed to some recurring bank draft pyramid scheme or to plunk down full price in a pre-order or buy it digitally on sale for something that isn't $0. I don't like this. This game probably wont make it to the depleted Best Buy shelves or Walmart shelf. In a perfect world Gamestop would have kept its leverage and you could keep crying about your 2018 copy of Madden not being worth $58 in trade in credit in 2021. I have enough games and acquired enough years in life to never go fully digital. It just pains me to see. I wish gamestop could have leveraged it's stock price and shored up its value by buying the strip malls they reside in outright or buying a game studio or 2. This sucks. I don't expect you to understand. Only 80s and 90s kids do. Well at least the ones without an active Tik Tok account.

Ebay exists.

Amazon marketplace and similar things exist.

Small scale game stores exists.

The idea that Gamestop is the only place to buy used physical media is...very wrong. There's like 10 places online I can get Croc: Legend of the Gobbos for a reasonable price right now and none of them are Gamestop.

The idea that Gamestop's woes are driving the decline of physical media is also wrong. It's the other way around. Games aren't not getting physical releases because Gamestop is suffering. Gamestop is suffering because people aren't buying physical. And Gamestop doesn't carry the obscure games in physical first run anyway. They have a bunch of Madden and Call of Duty but many of the smaller games that do get physical releases get them online, because Gamestop doesn't care.

I understand why some people are upset about the decline of physical games, but Gamestop's issues are a symptom of that, not the cause. If Gamestop got a $10 billion cash infusion right now it would not use that money to buy shopping malls of all things it would use it to diversify the business because physical games are becoming a niche business.

You've misdiagnosed the problem here, and also tying this to the notorious Six Days in Fallujah is just a really weird choice. There are much less controversial and better obscure or small game projects to talk about.

@bigsocrates: Gamestop is the last place that was bastion of obscure games and made buying a title not seem like a risky bet. Games on ebay are going to trend up in price. I think i've made a total purchase of 1 or 0 from ebay since it's inception. I'm not that pressed for anything to want to let it occupy rent free in my brain during the duration of a bidding war. I think i used ebay in its infancy when you could narrow sellers by location. Then i would just email them and conduct the sale like a typical craigslist purchase with my cash-in-hand having more value than the two in the bush.

This was a specific commentary on the Six Days in Fallujah potential bypassing physical because of the state of game sales. So how does that factor into your ebay? Default follow up response gamepass, steam and (circa 2018) epic games store sales weak argument?

Buying the shopping malls is diversification. Nintendo's physical model is probably the only thing saving gamestop right now. Once they release a pro model or lifetime joycon replacement program then i can pivot back into Nintendo who i have shunned for the better part of the last 2 decades.

This is more of a commentary of the world you live in than what could or should happen. More of what might have been. I have no issue and never have had issue with Gamestop's strong arming both sides of the transaction. I get a pretty cool store and a safe space. Digital has merit.. blah blah blah. Feel free to list them all, then select-all and ctrl-z for me. Wrong recipient on this text, my bad. But the only way i play Six Days in Fallujah is if it's on a gamestop shelf in a used condition and i can use some reward points to stave off the price. Or it hits gamepass by October 2021.. when I'm officially out of the gamepass infinite loop autocracy.

@senorsucks2suck: Gamestop was in no way a bastion of obscure titles. I have no idea what you're talking about here. Obscure titles have been sold either online or in small specialty game stores for many years. Gamestop stocked more mid-tier titles than something like Best Buy, but they haven't stocked the actually obscure stuff for a long time.

You also don't appear to understand how Ebay or buying at many online marketplaces work. Those kinds of competitive auctions are only for rare or unique items. For normal games (even relatively obscure ones like the PS3 Puppeteer game) most listings are "buy it now" and have a defined price. Or you can shop on Amazon marketplace and get a defined price. Auctions are the exception for this kind of thing.

I already said that Six Days in Fallujah is not bypassing physical sales because of Gamestop. It's because physical games don't sell. Reviving Gamestop won't change that. Gamestop still has thousands of locations, but people are not buying physical games there. You completely misunderstand the dynamics of this. It's the disinterest in physical sales that are the problem for Gamestop, not Gamestop being the problem for physical sales. Six Days in Fallujah may not release physically but it doesn't matter how many Gamestop stores there are. If there was a market they could always sell it on Amazon and other online retailers. There's no market. That's the fundamental issue.

Shopping malls are a dying business and do not represent diversification from a physical goods business. They are both suffering from the same issues.

You seem very confused about what's happening.

1) People have greatly reduced their purchase of physical games for various reasons (predating Covid-19).

2) Because of this fewer game makers are producing physical versions.

3) Also because of this and also because of competition online Gamestop's business has fallen off a cliff.

4) Gamestop is closing locations and trying to restructure to stay in business.

Your main issues here are 1 and 2. That's why Six Days in Fallujah may not get a physical release. If you were able to reverse #4 (save Gamestop) that will have no meaningful effect on 1 and 2. 4 is not driving 1 and 2, 1 and 2 are driving 3, which is driving 4.

I wouldn't call gamestop a bastion of obscure games. They have new and used copies of most of the common recent releases, but if you go hunting for something obscure you're more likely to find nothing worthwhile. Problem with gamestop is that while you can get used games cheaply, I can also just wait for a huge sale that seems to happen quarterly or at least twice a year at most retailers to get a new copy for the same price I'd pay for used on an average day at gamestop.

GameStop's trade in rates alone makes it a bad idea to trade obscure games to them. They'll give you a dollar for something old and hard to find when you could just sell it yourself and judge the scarcity and demand appropriately. I could walk in with a legitimate copy of pokemon heart gold or soul silver (using pokemon because legit old copies are notoriously hard to find cheaply) and walk out with less than $10 or I could sell it online for $100. As people realized that selling your stuff online is really easy now, gamestop lost their flow of games outside the usual "I played the new madden for a month and now want to trade it in".

Is GameStop directly involved in the creation of this thread? It seems suspicious that GameStop has vehemently tried to F me and many others through the resale of used games at high prices, and then this thread is shouting that we need them. I have been to local shops in the LA area, Amazon, Ebay, and Target/Walmart/Best Buy and I have always been able to find what I need/want.

Most of the time, GameStop is the last place I go, because I do not trust that they prefer quality over quantity. The amount of unplayable games and bricked systems I have happened upon thanks to GameStop is ridiculous. I am not saying that Amazon or Ebay are better, but they certainly are not worse. I have a couple of things I want to get rid of, and I want to price them fairly, and I have not checked GameStop once for this process. Rather, I sell to the people directly.

We do not need middlemen for the sale of game products. That is all GameStop was - the middle man. All they did was devalue our products and then flip them for a higher value later. ScamStop?

If you do not think we understand, you need to find a more appropriate way to explain it. You did not, and us 80's and 90's kids understand games, sales, and GameStop very well. Thank you for your assumption, though. It won't particularly be remembered.

GameStop made their money by paying gamers pennies for games that they then turned around and sold for $50. Meanwhile the local store down the street would give you 5-10x the money for the game and not try to convince you to spend that money on a magazine subscription. Simply put, they were bad for consumers and bad for gamers. You would spend more in the long run because their prices sucked. Look at the ongoing Steam sale. Compare those prices to GameStop’s President’s Day sale prices. Do you see hundreds of games for 75-90% off at GameStop? I own over 1500 games on Steam. I likely paid more money for the 50 or so PS2 games I bought mostly used at GameStop 15 years ago.

@raven10: I am confused. You're appreciative of what they did for you? Should be. Direct sales means you will pay more for your 2021 collection of games in 5 years than you would if gamestop were still around. Look at what's happing with PS5s. False demand. Substitute PS5 for Sackboy's Adventure and for some reason your physical copy's value is going to be north of $70 aka nobody is buying or selling so your disc is practically worthless. Or you can buy it whenever Sony whims it to be on their subscription drip feed or around $10. Games at the mid-tier (Six Days in Fallujah) need to march to zero for the democratizing of games. Quality games and Nintendo games need to hover at a reasonable price but should be available without shipping or traveling to far out of my zipcode. Gamestop enabled that. Short-term boohoo i can't flip my game for a profit a month or two after release. 5 years later you're getting that game for cheap. Gamestop still stocks DS games because... that model is brilliant for gamers and people that want to wonder into a shop and pick up a cool title. Instead we are sifting spreadsheets by price and buying games (all you steam buyers) because .. remind me why. That gamestop stock bubble is the gaming bubble... that too will play out in the same way. Choice paralysis.. The commitment to drive to the store and insert a disc might be why that parity of old gamestop purchases $$$ and current steam library $$$ spent doesnt mean you hold the later more closer to you than the former. That's adulthood speaking.

Gamestop's business routinely screwed over consumers.

I can lament the lack of avenues to save money by buying used games from Gamestop while also disliking 99% of their business practices.

You can still find places to buy used games or older games for older systems without going to Gamestop and I bet if every Gamestop disappeared tomorrow those local used/old game stores would see at least some extra business.

Amazon Marketplace really eclipsed Gamestop as a go-to spot for trading used games quite a while ago. You want cheap used games, Amazon or Ebay are much better options, with much better deals 99% of the time.

There are so many alternatives to Gamestop nowadays that losing Gamestop really seems like a non-issue, IMO. As an 80s/90s kid who has never used TikTok, I remember buying & trading games almost exclusively at stores like Gamestop. But at some point the world moved on. And for what it's worth, I think we're all generally better off for it.

This post doesn't seem to be about Gamestop or about Six Days in Fallujah at all. You're talking about the decline of physical media and game ownership. You're talking about the difficulties of game preservation. You're on the Giant Bomb forums, man. We've been listening to Jeff talk about this for years. I get that you want to vent your frustrations, but you're rambling to the choir.

I wrote out and deleted two previous responses to this, I think I'll go with this one:

If you watched the footage of that game and the thing you found chilling was that you might not get a physical copy of it, you have serious issues and you put too much importance on video games.

Videogames aren't a democracy, they're embedded in capitalism.

There are some democratic game developers (House House, Paradox Europe, Motion Twin), as well as some media outlets that try to uphold democratic values (Jim Stirling, Giant Bomb, Kotaku, etc.) but at the end of the day, every org, studio, and retailer has to make ends meet under capitalism.

As far as 6 days of Fallujah, it sounds important to you. My DMs are open if it's important for you to be heard. It's cool that media can be so relatable, and I am hopeful that games continue to speak to a wide audience and convey moving experiences. -peace

I can't tell if this thread is satire or not. Is it about Gamestop or is it a thinly veiled dump on Six Days in Fallujah by implying it's going to be a shit game that's not worth buying at full price?

I'm pretty sure that I got better deals buying old games form ebay sellers than I have buying from Game Stop.

That said, the retail chain has had the usefulness and convinces that come with brick and mortar compared to online, but they're far from the alpha and omega.

Heads up, don't insult or disrespect others. If you're unsure of a topic of discussion then maybe just don't post in that thread?

@Finaldasa Are you talking about me? About vaiz? Because they have a point. OP is implying that the game is only worth playing at a deep discount. The game keeps getting linked with mentions of how low quality it is, and how it should have a physical copy so it can end up in the bargain bin. Sure, OP is defending GameStop an awful lot but I don't think this is really about GameStop either. It's about the "loss of video game democracy" and how we're all becoming slaves to the steam servers.

If anyone is being insulting or disrespectful, it's senorsucks2suck. He's using extremely condescending language and making assumptions about people before anyone even responds.

It's also difficult to find a stance other than "games are going all digital and I don't like it." Yeah, I don't like it either. A lot of us don't. Like I said, this is a common topic on the Bombcast. I don't really understand why GameStop is a sticking point in his argument when people are suggesting alternatives. I don't know how to respond to OP directly because he's just on the defensive even when it seems like we're on his side. As for the post possibly being satire? I don't think he's necessarily a troll, but he's got his dukes up like one.

@finaldasa: I'm not sure if you're referring to me, or referring to perhaps some interim posts that actually were dickish and got removed and you're just giving the heads up, in which case that's totally understandable.

If you are referring to me, though, I think it's perfectly fair to ask someone to clarify the intent of a statement. At no point was it disrespectful or condescending, it wasn't insulting OP's intelligence or attacking them personally.

@finaldasa: by me I have absolutely zero of those alternatives. I have saved money and traded games at software etc. then EBGames, and now GameStop since I was like 12 and it was the only way I was able to play most games.

If a store wants to stay in business, why would they sell anything BUT the top 50 games?

I get you probably think it's really noble and honorable to sell indie games and retro games, but it doesn't make money

Crappy merch and Funko pops are what make money. It's just how it is

@sombre: Isn't this literally what Gamestop does? They're not exactly thriving.

@sethmode: Gamestop is too big. There just isn't a need for a specialty games retailer with that huge a footprint when people are buying so many fewer physical games, and buying/selling more of them online anyway.

Specialty stores that focus on a hobbyist clientele (like Pink Gorilla Games or Video Games New York) can do okay, but even large cities can only support a handful of locations. Gamestop opened up a store in every mall and all over city storefronts and they just don't have the traffic to support that business model even as they have pivoted to the biggest volume items.

It's not like if they started focusing on specialty items they could sustain having thousands of stores. There just aren't enough buyers.

Their biggest problem is that their main profit center was flipping used games at a massive mark up, but people have gotten wise to that and are selling directly to each other online (or to specialty shops that have a lower mark up) and there's no way to fix that.

There's no business model that makes sense for Gamestop anywhere near the size that it is right now. If it shrinks down to a few locations in every major city and some suburban and rural stores where appropriate that might be sustainable, but corporations just aren't set up to shrink like that and that's why it's in so much trouble.

@bigsocratesIt's almost like other sites read these boards and validate questions posed. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-gamestop-couldnt-capitalize-on-its-reddit-fueled-stock-rally/1100-6487540/

I would go so far as to say that their business IS to screw over consumers AND producers.

I've definitely gotten some benefits from gamestop over the decades and I like that there is a dedicated video game store. When I swapped out my launch (year) switch for the refresh SKU I was able to do the entire transfer and get good trade-in credit in the store and I just can't imagine Best Buy or Target being cool with letting someone hang out for 20-80 minutes (because Nintendo) because they have other stuff to do.

But every time I see that they have a used new game like cod blops whatever (couldn't think of many new games) for 60 bucks... it just reeks of predatory bullshit. Because maybe it is nice that someone can get a fourth of a game per year? But all I can ever think of are the people who traded those in for 25 bucks (a lot higher than I expected. could have sworn it was 10 or 15). When you are paying 45 bucks for a rental? What the fuck? That isn't helping consumers. That is preying on FOMO.

And it also dicks over the folk who create (or at least publish) games because there is a reason they want to sell used copies instead of new...

I see folk (including a former member of the site) who love gamestop and the like and I do get some of the nostalgia. But it also just makes me think of how people would rent TVs and consoles back in the day and think they were getting a good deal because it meant they could get what they want NOW for a much higher price than if they waited a few months (and yes, I realize there are socioeconomic reasons that saving up money can be impossible. But that is a different discussion).

Maybe it is just an age or background thing? I spent most of my youth being more on the PC side of things. We were an nes/playstation/2 house and I definitely loved a lot of console games, but those were very much "Wow, there is a Crash Bandicoot 3?!?!?!?" and "I don't know what this is but the girl on the cover is pretty and I think this game has mechs" affairs and PC gaming was where I would really lose my shit over an upcoming title. And I have multiple fond memories of walking into a gamestop, asking if they had KOTOR 2 or something, and spending five munites having to say "No, I don't want to buy a used copy of halo" and "No, I don't want a copy of wow. If I did, I wouldn't have to talk to you because your entire PC section is five starcraft battlechests and a dozen big ass wow boxes for the last three expansions" all before being given an open box with all the CDs that might have been in a jewel case now in sleeves. And then having to hope I remembered to look up how many discs the game had because they probably lost one. Oh, and also hoping that the one guy at gamestop who gave a shit about PC gaming didn't steal my serial.

Using “too big to fail” as a sincere defense/statement in 2021 is... so very depressing.

OP seems oblivious to the changes over the last 10 years.

The PS4/XB1 started the generation with a 10% digital attach rate, and were now finishing it over 50%. Nintendo not far behind ~30%.

Covid has certainly speed things up but the digital attach rate was high enough that both Sony/MS released a digital only skew before Covid even hit.

The shift to service games has been the biggest reason in the rise of digital, publishers have been making fewer longer lasting games and likewise people have bought fewer games.

With PS Now/Gamepass in the picture the trend will only continue.

If your a child of the 90's / 00's like myself were pretty much to blame, grown up with more money than time I don't really care about saving £5/10 I'll happily pay for convince.

I can't tell if this is a parody or not.

@vaiz: @besetment: You're both fine. I meant it as a general warning to everyone in the thread and to anyone who might post. If either of you were directly violating our community rules you would've received a PM.

@grayfox666: Gamefly sells their games used at a steep discount and Amazon also has a used game program. They aren't the same as Gamestop and not as convenient as a store just down the road, but they are options.

@thepanzini: Not oblivious. Asking you to do your part and buy war bonds. Rosey the Riveter style. I thought the spike in price was gamers doing the right thing. It's not too late.

Going with parody so I can feel better about this thread.

Too big to fail, that's some good shit.

"In a perfect world Gamestop would have kept its leverage" - Gamestop don't and never have had any leverage?

They had a market, sure. Leverage implies they had some sway over how games were distributed.

In any case, digitally distributed games still reduce in price over time, making this seem a pointless discussion.

Is that really the analogy you want to go with here, in defense of a video game retailer?

We're at the point where it's understood that some games will only get a digital release and while that can be lousy for people who prefer physical releases (up to this current generation I've been one of those people) you're not going to get a great response to basically telling people what you think they should do with their own money.

While 'sticking it to these evil hedgefunds that speculate on a company's stockprize moving even further down' was definitly a factor that made people jump in, the people at Wallstreetbets went into that stock with the goal of making money. They knew that the stock was shorted big time and that those that speculated on a decreasing stockprize eventually had to close out their position. By driving the stockprize up together, Melvin had no choice but to swallow the bitter pill and take the loss.

It was not a bunch of people deciding that gamestop was paramount to the gaming industry and should be supported by gamers. If there was no money to be made, this wouldn't have happened.

@senorsucks2suck: You are aware that there are used game retailers other than Gamestop, right? I think there are two or three within 10 miles of where I am sitting. Every other retailer of used games uses the standard national database for resale value when determining the price of a game. I can go to my local used game retailer and receive far more money for the game than I would have at Gamestop. They will then sell that used copy for less money than Gamestop would charge, despite paying me more for it. That was literally the point of my post. That Gamestop's prices sucked. Sorry I used the Steam sale as an example. It was the sale happening at the time. I can get your anger over physical gaming retail disappearing. I cannot get why you would support a company that short changes consumers and screws over developers on a regular basis. There are better options for game resale. Hell, I could get more selling my used copy on Ebay than I get from Gamestop, and again, I could purchase a used copy for less as well.

As to your comment about pricing trends, it ignores a key element of the discussion. One of the key reasons games have continued to increase in price is because of the sales lost from used game sales. As a developer I get $0 from a used game sale. Meanwhile, Gamestop gives me, the consumer, $10 for a game that they then sell for $65, making a profit of $55, while as the actual developer, I make less than half of that off the sale of a new copy from Gamestop. That is simply unsustainable. The cost of making games are too high for the retailer to be making such a huge portion of income. On Steam, as a developer, I don't even need a publisher. I get over 70% of the sale directly into my coffers. On Epic that number is something like 85%. And guess what? On Steam I get 10% off the price of most brand new games on day one. That's a brand new copy with proceeds going directly to the developer. And yet I am paying less than what Gamestop will charge me in 6 months for a used copy.

As far as having to wait for a sale, yes I do have to wait. Although in your example you are happy to wait five years to play a game so surely waiting a couple extra months shouldn't matter, right? And Steam has sales on the same weeks every year, and they put close to every game on the storefront on sale. So just save your money and purchase all the games you want during that one sale and play them over a period of time. Again, it will cost you less money than buying the same game used at Gamestop, even after 5 years. That most recent sale had numerous games for under $1. That includes games that normally cost $20 or more. You literally will never see that at Gamestop. Never. Lower prices are better for consumers. Direct sales means the money I spend goes to the people who make the game and not a bunch of executives whose workforce makes less money in a day than the cost of one of the games they sell.

And lastly, in regards to your attempts to incite me to anger by claiming I am a child or have a childlike view of the world, I am in my 30s. I work in gaming retail, and have worked in game development and journalism. I have bills to pay. I lived in the slums on the border to Tajuana. I lived on the South Side of Chicago. I have seen the worst poverty this country has to offer. I've lived not knowing whether or not I would have a job because there were so few buses coming to my neighborhood that I might miss work if they filled up. I have seen my income collapse during this pandemic just like many others. During that time I have been able to afford 0 game purchases, but for $15 a month, Gamepass has given my steady access to new games to play. No, not all of them would have been my first choice, but I could go to Gamestop and buy one old game for $15, or I could get a dozen or more games including the latest releases on Gamepass. Yea, I would prefer to own them, but I simply can't afford to purchase them, and considering how my work hours have been dramatically reduced and I'm limited in where I can go when I leave the home, Gamepass has helped keep me sane for a fraction of the cost of buying games, physical or digital, used or new. That is what being an adult means. Accepting the imperfections of our world and focusing my limited resources on things more important than these types of arguments.