The new Tropes vs. Women in Gaming video came out...

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ottoman673

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#1  Edited By ottoman673

...and was subsequently delisted by Youtube for violating ToS.

Anyone get a chance to see it? Any idea why it was taken down? Anita was quick to blame her "harassers" but I'm certain Youtube is a bit more discretionary than that..

MOD EDIT:

Here's the video so that nobody feels the need to make a second thread to post it.

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deactivated-59123fe38ab28

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I can't get enough of these.

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Milkman

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#3  Edited By Milkman

People flagged it because the best thing to do when there's something you don't like is click a button over and over until it goes away.

This isn't the first time this has happened.

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salarn

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#4  Edited By salarn

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

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Jimbo

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Who won?

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SpaceInsomniac

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#6  Edited By SpaceInsomniac

...and was subsequently delisted by Youtube for violating ToS.

Anyone get a chance to see it? Any idea why it was taken down? Anita was quick to blame her "harassers" but I'm certain Youtube is a bit more discretionary than that..

They're really not. I'm not fan of Anita's work, but YouTube's way of handling this shit is a joke. I'm sure it will be back soon, though.

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SpunkyHePanda

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Hey, great plan, guys. You're making us all look real good.

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PulledaBrad

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@salarn said:

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

I havent seen it yet. Does it look like it should have taken 2 months to come out?

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Darji

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#9  Edited By Darji

@salarn said:

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

No it was not. You basically could use every example and switch it with human and it would be the same result. Calling out games like ICO or Borderlands is just stupid. Is it a common plot device and trope yes sure. Is it harmful to women? No it is not. This is not what sexism means at all. She just tries to push her agenda.

Also nit is really funny that she does not know what empathy is.

Also if you watch it. There are tons of spoilers in it so if you want to play these games here for the story better not watch it^^

Spoilers from:

· Bionic Commando (2009)

· Borderlands 2 (2012)

· Breath of Fire IV (2000)

· Castlevania: The Dracula X Chronicles (2007)

· Castlevania: Lament of Innocence (2003)

· Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (2010)

· Dante's Inferno (2010)

· Dishonored (2012)

· The Darkness II (2012)

· Dead Space (2008)

· Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs The Soulless Army (2006)

· Double Dragon Neon (2012)

· Gears of War 2 (2008)

· God of War: Ghost of Sparta (2010)

· The Godfather: The Game (2006)

·

Grand Theft Auto III

(2001)

· Hotline Miami (2012)

· Ico (2001)

· Infamous (2009)

· Inversion (2012)

· Kane & Lunch: Dead Men (2007)

· The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (2006)

· MediEvil 2 (2000)

· Ninja Gaiden 3 (2010)

· Pandora's Tower (2011)

· Prey (2006)

· Resident Evil 5 (2009)

· Shadows of the Damned (2011)

· Tenchu: Shadow Assassins (2009)

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Carousel

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Anita's fans do that to a lot of people and YouTube refuses to fix the problem.

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jimmy_p

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what a travesty

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ottoman673

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#13  Edited By ottoman673

There's a transcript in this blog post here:

http://www.feministfrequency.com/2013/05/damsel-in-distress-part-2-tropes-vs-women/#more-7505

Sounds like a typical Anita Sarkeesian video - agenda-pushing bullshit that doesn't address the real issue at hand.

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deathstriker666

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This Woman could make millions when she cashes out all of her publicity for book deals like Ann Coulter.

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PulledaBrad

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Personally I think Sarkeesian is out of her fucking mind. The way shes going about this is all wrong. Making vidos dissecting video games and twisting "tropes" to fit her message (for the most part, bot all the time) isnt going to work. Getting up on a podium and preaching isnt going to cut it. She should be encouraging young women to get interested in programming, creative writing ect and change it from within. Dont like a particular trope? Come up with something new! Yes its hard to be creative. But thats where someone like Anita is valuable, being an encouraging force for young women in the industry.

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Milkman

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#16  Edited By Milkman

@darji: I can only assume you've been waiting in front of your computer for the last 2 months ready to strike as soon as this thread was created.

By the way, this thread is off to a great start. No one's even seen the video yet and we've already got "I'll fuck her" post.

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Darji

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#17  Edited By Darji

@milkman said:

@darji: I can only assume you've been waiting in front of your computer for the last 2 months ready to strike as soon as this thread was created.

Why? If I waited for it I would have posted the video almost an hour ago XD

I was playing Football manager 2013 and when I stopped i saw a neogaf thread about it. did I expect a video shortly before E3? Yeah sure but that has different reasons. Look I would love to have an actual discussion about sexism in video games but these videos are not a good start at all In fact these videos hinder a sinful discussion about this topic because now everyone is getting annoyed about it again.

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mellotronrules

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i just watched it. i don't think her arguments were as convincing or persuasive as the first, and lot of her plays towards the camera were very distracting/valueless. but most of her observations are 100% valid. i just found her primary sources to be somewhat one-note (the clips are almost entirely japanese), and at times its difficult to know if her issue is with the portrayal of women or the content of violent games themselves. i understand it's part-and-parcel when discussing violence against women- but i think some of her purported links to domestic violence are very strained. there's nothing really domestic about any of the violence in any of these games. and while i understand violence of a ridiculous nature can influence more pedestrian forms of violence- that's a FAR more difficult case to make, and one that doesn't play to sarkeesian's strengths.

hoping the next one is a bit more cohesive.

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ArbitraryWater

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Oh hooray. This lady again. I can't decide if I hate the Internet hate squad or the people who blindly rush to her defense more. She's made the videos. She will likely continue making the videos despite the cries of scam from her detractors. Can we respond with valid, thoughtful criticism instead of burning effigies of her in the (metaphorical) town square? No? Ok. Then I vote for @fourwude's plan because I found it hilarious despite being awful.

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salarn

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#20  Edited By salarn

@salarn said:

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

I havent seen it yet. Does it look like it should have taken 2 months to come out?

I'm a programmer not a video researcher producer, I have no idea what it takes to make a video like that. As I said, I wasn't a backer so I'm not waiting for a ?return? on my money.

@darji said:

@salarn said:

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

No it was not. You basically could use every example and switch it with human and it would be the same result. Calling out games like ICO or Borderlands is just stupid. Is it a common plot device and trope yes sure. Is it harmful to women? No it is not. This is not what sexism means at all. She just tries to push her agenda.

Also nit is really funny that she does not know what empathy is.

Also if you watch it. There are tons of spoilers in it so if you want to play these games here for the story better not watch it^^

There is a spoiler warning annotation at the start for what that's worth. The videos talk about about tropes in videos, damsels in distress is a trope that is in video games. Part 3 will have Bros in Distress touched on. I'm not really here to defend the videos, but them seemed not offensive, well put together and show a lot of evidence to the fact that 'Damsels in Distress' is a really over used plot device.

Was there something more promised to people who backed the project?

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YOU_DIED

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@chrismafuchris said:

I can't get enough of these.

I want to get off the ride but it never ends

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Hawkerace

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@fourwude said:

OK people to stop all this shit, I will take one for the team. I will shag Anita Sarkeesian, if she's up for it.

We need to end this now. And like a royal family, marrying for political pressure to end years of bitter rivalry, I will give her a good old rogering. If she's up for it.

And then let that be the end of that.

tag me in coach.

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Musubi

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#24  Edited By Musubi

I'm team @fourwude on this one. I think he is the man with the plan here.

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SomeJerk

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#25  Edited By SomeJerk

I'd love to see an intelligent, thoughtful discussion on sexism in games, and storytelling as a whole.

In the dawn of mankind, the men were out in fields, forests and caves hunting, while the women were gathering, taking care of children, elderly and the sick, just like the great majority of all species in land sea and air. I'd pay to watch and listen to a good intelligent discussion of good intelligent thoughtful human beings that started from that and took it all the way to right here right now today and videogames, then finished up trying to figure out how to change it for the future rather than "boohoo all men are rapists and murderers, women are strong, lets do everything for little girls and teenage girls and not do anything for little boys and teenage boys" like what's going on in my country.

That's not going to happen for a few years with people like that, and by "that" I mean arts students paying off tuitions with kickstarter money.

e: I really want to add to this that I understand her and where she's coming from and why she does her things like this. I understand a lot of people, even that crazy shooter Breivik I understand, why he did what he did and what led up to it and why he's doing everything he's done afterwards.

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Darji

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#26  Edited By Darji

@salarn said:

@pulledabrad said:

@salarn said:

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

I havent seen it yet. Does it look like it should have taken 2 months to come out?

I'm a programmer not a video researcher producer, I have no idea what it takes to make a video like that. As I said, I wasn't a backer so I'm not waiting for a ?return? on my money.

@darji said:

@salarn said:

I watched it, it was very well done.

I was not a backer of the project, but I imagine anyone who backed it for more than just $1 to crap up the backer forums will likely be happy with the episode.

No it was not. You basically could use every example and switch it with human and it would be the same result. Calling out games like ICO or Borderlands is just stupid. Is it a common plot device and trope yes sure. Is it harmful to women? No it is not. This is not what sexism means at all. She just tries to push her agenda.

Also nit is really funny that she does not know what empathy is.

Also if you watch it. There are tons of spoilers in it so if you want to play these games here for the story better not watch it^^

There is a spoiler warning annotation at the start for what that's worth. The videos talk about about tropes in videos, damsels in distress is a trope that is in video games. Part 3 will have Bros in Distress touched on. I'm not really here to defend the videos, but them seemed not offensive, well put together and show a lot of evidence to the fact that 'Damsels in Distress' is a really over used plot device.

Was there something more promised to people who backed the project?

I bet almost no one would argure that these tropes are over used plot devices. Of course they are. People are creating stories since they can talk and of course every form will be used over and over again. The point I do not support is that these tropes are misogynistic and sexist and try to victimize women and make her look weak and objectify them

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Optix12

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thanks to the dude who listed the games that could be spoiled. I guess its about time I actually play the Ico/SOTC collection and dishonored before I get to this video.

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salarn

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#28  Edited By salarn
@darji said:

I bet almost no one would argure that these tropes are over used plot devices. Of course they are. People are creating stories since they can talk and of course every form will be used over and over again. The point I do not support is that these tropes are misogynistic and sexist and try to victimize women and make her look weak and objectify them

Being captured, traded as a prize, and being incapable of saving one's self. That doesn't make the person look weak or objectified?

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Nekroskop

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Too much crazy. Too much "it's not ok when my feelings are hurt". Funny to watch in an ironic way. I think she is legitimately crazy.

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Milkman

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By the way, here's the actual video, if that's important at all.

Loading Video...

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Darji

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@salarn said:
@darji said:

I bet almost no one would argure that these tropes are over used plot devices. Of course they are. People are creating stories since they can talk and of course every form will be used over and over again. The point I do not support is that these tropes are misogynistic and sexist and try to victimize women and make her look weak and objectify them

Being captured, traded as a prize, and being incapable of saving one's self. That doesn't make the person look weak or objectified?

No it does not. Each men and each women are differently strong and for a good vs evil trope or hero saves the princess trope to work you need such a part in your story. Evil is always represent as very powerful in the beginning just so you a certain level of progression. The Main character grows strong enough to defeat the evil. Also again rescuing the women you love your the sister you care for is not because you objectify her but because you care for this person. These story wants to create a feel of empathy not of objectification.

And why are the male characters usually the hero who saves the world or the person you love? Because young men and boys are the ones these games are mostly created for. They serve a market nothing more. Also If you would put a women in these shoes of rescuing the person she loves and cares for like in Tomb Raider for example. Anita will call it Men with boobs tropes because in her perfect media world women are not supposed to be strong or try to fight (physically) Everything in her world is there to make men look superior. If men get killed it is because of a male power fantasy. If a women gets killed it is because these developers are sexist. You can not win against people like her unless you do exactly do as she thinks it is good.

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zombiesatemycereal

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Regardless of your opinions of the series, it shouldn't have taken this long to produce the second video.

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Optix12

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#33  Edited By Optix12

I... dont really think The lead guy in Hotline Miami was even trying to protect or save his "girl". Im not sure if im remembering that right but im pretty sure she was simply a side girl at most.

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koolaid

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I don't really understand why this is happening... I mean, its most likely another case of two groups butting heads over their ignorance... but still.

I mean, is the stance of the "harassers" that Sarkeesian is making up all this hostile culture against women stuff? So they prove her wrong by creating a hostile culture against women? I just don't get it. I feel like she is becoming more and more credible every time she is attacked.

Maybe she's a big Obi Wan Kenobi fan. "If you strike me down..."

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wjb

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TAKE THAT BIONIC COMMANDO FROM LIKE, FOUR YEARS AGO!

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Fredchuckdave

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#36  Edited By Fredchuckdave

@fourwude: Hey now people can hate each other and still enjoy a good rogering; and that includes royal couples (who are most likely too young and stupid to hate each other for being political rivals)

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Animasta

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Anita Sarkessian 2: Hoop it up

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EXTomar

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I see people are staying classy for this. :)

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Milkman

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@zombiesatemycereal: As someone who's not a backer, I don't see why that's important.

As for the actual video, I liked it but I don't think this was as good as the first one. The first one surprised me because I was never a fan of any of her other work. But this time, it feels like she went after some low hanging fruit. I get the idea that she wants to show that this stuff is everywhere but none of the examples shown really had me thinking more deeply about the issue like some of the examples in the first video did when she went after some more established franchises. I already know that games like Duke Nukem, Borderlands and Prototype are horrible from a narrative perspective. I'd rather see her go after something that will ruffle a few more feathers and force some people to really look at the themes of more beloved games. (I know Borderlands is beloved by many but I think the story is pretty much accepted as not good). That being said, I still enjoyed it and am still glad that it exists. I just don't feel like this one had as much to say.

I'll be interested to see what the reaction is to the next video from her "haters", "harassers", whatevers since it seems like it's going to be a much more positive look at the trope. I'm sure the straw men will be out in full force.

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Animasta

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the fact that people get so angry at her despite her saying super basic shit that's already public knowledge will forever be more entertaining than her videos.

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Milkman

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Oh and one more thing. If you think anything she says in this video makes her "crazy", then...I'm not going to say you're an idiot.

But you're not very bright.

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customotto

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@animasta said:

the fact that people get so angry at her despite her saying super basic shit that's already public knowledge will forever be more entertaining than her videos.

grr feminism internet male smash

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vaiz

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#43  Edited By vaiz

@fourwude: You. You're my new favorite. Wear this crown with distinction and some taffy.

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PulledaBrad

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#44  Edited By PulledaBrad

I do like how right at the start she points out the DD Neon example as "That dosent count!" Course it dosent.

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President_Barackbar

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Eh, all she's ever proved is that if you over-analyze something enough, you can eventually twist it to suit your purpose.

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jaycrockett

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#46  Edited By jaycrockett

I liked it. It's a bit dry, so hard to watch the full 25 minutes at once, but it's good.

I enjoyed the "wife killed, must rescue daughter" montage.

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AngriGhandi

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#47  Edited By AngriGhandi

You guys, Anita Sarkeesian is not the president of feminism. I don't mean to blow your mind or anything.

Why can't we just agree that her videos aren't super great-- and sort of roll our eyes at the fact that yet another person on the internet got a bunch of money from fans to make things that aren't super great-- and stop blowing a fucking blood vessel every time she voices her opinion, as if she's going to singlehandedly march on Washington and make them pass a law banning tropes??

I mean, it's youtube. Come on.

We look like some real insecure motherfuckers, is all I'm saying.

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Ravenlight

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#48  Edited By Ravenlight

It's cool that the TvW series is still chugging long. However, it seems like she hasn't played any of the games in her examples. In particular, calling Yorda damsel in distress completely destroys all the nuance that made her an interesting character.

--

Imma keep going because it's fresh in my mind:

It would also help to utilize a greater ratio of recent games in this video since she talked about the history of the trope in the first one. ("Modern games like [forgotten D-list game from 2001].")

Using Hotline Miami to illustrate violence against women is just flat out stupid. Anita is obviously a smart person but this one example hurts the point TvW is examining. Hotline Miami is about bad times for everyone, all the time.

While it's outside of the scope of this video, It might be nice to make a distinction between dumb-fun and dumb-serious for use of the damsel trope. Asura's Wrath and Shadows of the Damned are both super dumb but maybe purposely so. Dante's Inferno and God of War both take themselves way too seriously and I'd place them into the dumb-serious camp. In dumb-fun the whole game is a parody of dumb-serious and not poking fun at the tropes in dumb-serious would lessen the enjoyment of the former (maybe). All of this doesn't mean that a dumb-serious game can't be appreciated as a dumb-fun game, however (Prey).

Maybe I'm creating subtext where there is none but, reading between the lines, it seems like the message here is that people who play video games are too dumb to tell fiction from reality and new games need to do away with damsels/distress because the trope makes us maladjusted in real life. (Judging by some of the comments, maybe this is right.)

Regardless of my nitpicking and pedantry, I'm still enjoying these videos and am looking forward to the final one.

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depecheload

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#49  Edited By depecheload

@fourwude said:

OK people to stop all this shit, I will take one for the team. I will shag Anita Sarkeesian, if she's up for it.

We need to end this now. And like a royal family, marrying for political pressure to end years of bitter rivalry, I will give her a good old rogering. If she's up for it.

And then let that be the end of that.

THIS WOMAN IS UPSET ABOUT SEXISM THAT DOESN'T EXIST SO I'M GOING TO RESPOND TO HER WITH BY SAYING SOMETHING HORRIBLY SEXIST THAT REINFORCES EVERYTHING SHE SAYS.

Good job fucko.

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Carousel

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She advocates women being in positions that would warrant violence (ex. female soldiers in Battlefield 4) but then complains when violence is committed against them.

So do I just not "get it" or am I right in assuming it's nonsense?