They should stop making AAA games for base xbox and ps4

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Haz_Kaj

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Especially base xbox one and s. Ps4 can still handle a few more games i guess

After Cyberpunk we shouldn't see AAA games being handicapped by low end versions.

I just recently checked out Assassins Creed Valhalla on xbox one s round my cousins and it was horrible. Absolutely horrible. Barely 25fps with ridiculous screen tearing. Mind you it has tearing on all xbox systems but the frame rate was just painful. Not to mention blurry res.

I don't want to imagine what Cyberpunk runs like on base xbox one and s.

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Efesell

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#2  Edited By Efesell

I promise you, the people who only have those consoles and can't afford the upgrade yet will be able to appreciate anything you are calling "painful" still.

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Haz_Kaj

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@efesell: why should they be forced to appreciate garbage?

Last year we had incredible games like control that ran like hot trash on these consoles.

Sorry but I don't buy that argument. Theres a reason a ton of people upgraded to pro and X. Those base consoles are outdated.

Theres no recent AAA game on pc that supports mid tier GFX cards from 2013 as even a minimum requirement.

My point is at some point we have to stop and say....this shit isn't worth it. Don't give people a bad experience.

Its like when switch owners port beg for AAA games that simply shouldn't be ported. Ironically control is a stream only game.

Turn xbox one s into a stream box.

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Efesell

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You are aggressively refusing to acknowledge just a very basic thing and I'm dying.

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CreepingDeath0

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#5  Edited By CreepingDeath0

How about we wait until new consoles are actually readily available before making such sweeping proclamations?

@haz_kaj: "Theres no recent AAA game on pc that supports mid tier GFX cards from 2013 as even a minimum requirement."

Cyberpunk 2077.

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bigsocrates

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If developers are unable to create the games they want to make for these boxes or decide they would be unprofitable make (or just don't want to) they should stop.

Otherwise...who cares?

The base PS4/Xbox One market penetration is massive compared to PS5/XBS. Why wouldn't developers want a piece of that much bigger pie? If the games run badly then people can tolerate it or not. Lots of games run badly, and 25 FPS is really not that bad.

Fun fact: God of War II came out for PS2 6 months after PS3 launched...AND DIDN'T EVEN GET A PS3 VERSION (at least not until years later.) Why? Because the PS2 had a massive install base. The PS4 has a massive install base and people are going to keep making AAA games for it as long as it's feasible. The Xbox 360 got a version of Forza Horizon 2...almost a full year after the launch of the Xbox One. It got Rise of the Tomb Raider a full 2 years after Xbox One launched.

Old consoles get AAA games for a long time because they have large install bases and are profitable to make games for. Those games often run poorly and may even have cut content (like Shadow of Mordor cutting out the whole damn nemesis system) but people make do. We're in the middle of a massive recession and a lot of people aren't able to upgrade (even people who have the money can't upgrade because they can't even find the darn things.)

Literally nobody would benefit from cutting off development on the old consoles this early in the cycle except, maybe, people who got the new consoles (or have high end PCs) and would get slightly better looking games if they weren't constrained by the old consoles' hardware.

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Justin258

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@haz_kaj said:

@efesell: why should they be forced to appreciate garbage?

They're not "forced" to appreciate anything.

@efesell said:

I promise you, the people who only have those consoles and can't afford the upgrade yet will be able to appreciate anything you are calling "painful" still.

That "can't afford" bit is the keyword here. If the best you can afford is a used base Xbox One you picked up on Craigslist and a Gamepass subscription, then you might be eating all twenty of those frames per second up with glee. I've been in that situation and I was just happy to have some games to play.

In a year or two, when the install base for the PS5 and XSX has expanded, you'll start seeing your wish come true, as has happened in pretty much every other console generation. By year three, we probably won't be seeing any major Xbox One/PS5 titles outside of sports games.

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FacelessRyan

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I mean, I can't front and say that I haven't bought a cross generation game for the older system over getting it for the newer system or the PC version. And I can't say that I bought an original PS4 over the Pro, or bought a more conservative PC.

...Well, this is awkward.

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elisdee1

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Barely 25 fps ?! You have a frame counter ? The one s is only 1440p not 2160p like the series x. Also was it the X/S updated version ? It could have been the the last gen version while update was downloading in the background. Was it on a 4k tv with HDR? Or was it playing on a 1080p tv ?

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takayamasama

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#10  Edited By takayamasama

I, for one, am very happy they made Valhalla for the Xbox One X/S in addition to Series X. Our Series X didn't arrive until a few days ago, and I love the modern AC games and didn't want to wait to start playing it, so I picked Valhalla up on my One S. Performance was notably rough at times, specifically in the big cities, but it was no where near unplayable and I had a great time. It's incredibly fancy on the Series X and I love it, but I'm very happy that I was able to pick up the "older" version and get some play time in, then painlessly have it ready to go on my Series X with Smart Delivery. No issues finding my save either, was near instant.

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Onemanarmyy

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#11  Edited By Onemanarmyy

This happens with every transition. The previous generation has a huge marketshare compared to the new consoles so it just makes business sense to put the game on both generations. If i want to actually make a profitable game, i'd be crazy to not release anything on the +-200 million last-gen consoles that are out there. Especially when you think about how this current batch of games has been in the works for a few years. It's pretty hard for a third party studio to make a truly next-gen game as you embark on a project, not knowing exactly what these new consoles will bring to the table. So you make a current-gen game and add a bunch of graphical bells & whistles on top of the design that will give next-gen consoles & PC's an enhanced experience.

Now these machines are known quantities. The specs are known, the features are out there. All devs can decide to include audio or visual raytracing in their games, play around with the controller options and activities-integration. They can design their games knowing that they can use the SSD to stream textures into the camera's viewport in realtime, instead of having to partition their game into a bunch of zones with mountains and caves obscuring the vision of the world as new textures are loaded.

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kopcik

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#12  Edited By kopcik

Consoles are using the same architect as Pc's since last gen.

I doubt its affecting the new gen consoles, same way as you can run any modern computer game on on very old pc.

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bigsocrates

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@kopcik: The old consoles have crappy CPUs (always did) so at a certain point developers are limited in certain gameplay features if they keep developing for them. Things like AI or physics can be CPU intensive, and of course RAM and hard drive speed are also issues that can affect gameplay features, so it's not always a matter of just dropping the resolution or not getting the frame rate you'd like. At some point the old consoles will be left behind. Examples of this include Shadow of Mordor's 7th gen version not having the nemesis system, and Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox 360 not having drivatars and having much less on road traffic. At some point they're not even the same game (and Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox 360 is arguably not the same game as FH2 on XBONE)

But many of the games being produced right now just don't have those issues so you can get by with just a worse resolution or frame rate and...why not?

@facelessvixen: Do you mean you bought games for an old system when you had both or just that you bought games for an older system because that's what you had access to? There are a few games that were actually released cross gen and arguably better on the older hardware for various quirky reasons but I've never bought an older version of a game when I could get a new one. I'd rather just wait for the price to drop.

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Giant_Gamer

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It all comes down to the developers care of the final product. I'm pretty sure that you'll see Cyberpunk performing and looking better than AC

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navster15

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It’s attitudes expressed by people like OP that have constrained video games in a monoculture for so long. Access is important, affordability is important. I’d rather broaden this hobby than constrain it.

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Ry_Ry

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just let people enjoy things

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Mortimer

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@ry_ry said:

just let people enjoy things

What..? No!

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Haz_Kaj

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@elisdee1: you're confusing one s with series s. One s isn't anywhere near 1080p alone 1440

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Haz_Kaj

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@creepingdeath0: cyberpunk requires a top tier card from. 2013. Nearly double in power compared to those consoles and double the cpu speeds

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glots

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I mean, it would be great if all the big new games wouldn't have to suffer from the compromises needed to make them run on the last gen, but it'll be a while until that happens. Even longer on the Xbox I imagine. PS5 is already getting some titles like Demon's Souls, with Ratchet & Clank and Gran Turismo 7 coming sometime next year, so at least exclusive-wise, Sony is getting there faster.

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FacelessRyan

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@bigsocrates: To clear things up in case posting past my bedtime was the enemy of me explaining things:

Back in 2014, around the time Metal Gear Solid 5 Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain were releasing and I only really had a PS3 for games at the time and not enough cash for a new console, I basically ignored the PS3 versions, most likely thinking "I'll wait and get these on PS4 because they'll look and play better on the newer system. "Same deal with the original Persona 5; "I'll get a PS4 eventually," while building my Steam library and upgrading my desktop. And similar story with me holding out for the PC version of Monster Hunter World over a console version. Slightly different conversation, but same sentiment overall.

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elisdee1

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@haz_kaj: yes I meant to say series S not one S, the one S is a 900p machine and the series S is a 1440p (current gen software only) and can do 4k on last gen titles.

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FrodoBaggins

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Always wait a few years before buying a new games console

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stinger061

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#24  Edited By stinger061

I think you are massively overestimating a) the actual number of people that upgraded to the Pro/X and b) how much the average consumer notices/cares about the performance of games on the older systems. Most people couldn't tell you what framerate a game is running at or what other graphical 'imperfections' it has.

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Shindig

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There's 163m previous generation consoles out there. You go where the money is.

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Kunakai

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@haz_kaj: "why should they be forced to appreciate garbage?" - Why should they be forced to buy a new console?

"Last year we had incredible games like control that ran like hot trash on these consoles." - So you're saying it would have been preferrable to exclude anyone who didn't have a decent PC at the time? Seems a bad argument.

"Theres no recent AAA game on pc that supports mid tier GFX cards from 2013 as even a minimum requirement" - RDR2? (Literally the first game I checked with a somewhat recent release date).

"My point is at some point we have to stop and say....this shit isn't worth it. Don't give people a bad experience." - This argument is very subjective. Given the fact that the new consoles have just dropped I can't help but feel many AC fans (who aren't generally the type to make much fuss about performance) would strongly disagree with your perception.

"Its like when switch owners port beg for AAA games that simply shouldn't be ported. Ironically control is a stream only game." - Surely this isn't a problem for those who have access to higher end hardware? The switch version of TW3 doesn't have bad reviews despite your opinion of their experience.

"I don't want to imagine what Cyberpunk runs like on base xbox one and s." - Why is this even a concern for you? You can always choose not to play on such hardware?

While I agree there will come a point at which older hardware should be phased out I wouldn't agree that developers should do so within weeks/months of the release of new hardware (I'd actually make an argument for years).


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sombre

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PC's are just as big of a limiter as consoles, if not more.

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tonal

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I can't tell you exactly what they'll do... but without a shadow of a doubt they will do what ever their research tells them will make the most money, period. And right now that surely isn't removing most of the possible sells for the foreseeable future.

I'm hearing that you want better graphics and playablity in your games on your new consoles, but wouldn't it be better if everyone gets better rather than just those with the most disposable income?

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NameRedacted

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There are nearly 120 million base PS4's and PS4 pros alone, they aren't ditching that install base anytime soon.

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FinalDasa

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#31  Edited By FinalDasa  Moderator

Cyberpunk probably couldn't be made for just current gen consoles.

For one they wouldn't have access to potential specs until maybe sometime last year. Assuming those specs would be accurate it isn't easy to switch your development onto entirely new specs while abandoning your previous work. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but it would all depend on how development was going.

Second, business. Dollar dollar bills. Let's assume the Xbox Series X and PS5 have both sold around 10 million units, totally around 20 million units. Would you rather sell your game on the previous gen where there are nearly 200 million units or just the newer gen with 20 million?

You're going to put your game out on the platforms where you can make the most money. Until the Series X and PS5 establish themselves further it's a better business decision to split your development.

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phoenix6153

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I'm one of those people who still has a base PS4. I've played some of last years games. I played RDR2, I played TLOU 2, I played Doom/Doom Eternal, I played Control, and others. I didn't have any problems playing those games on the base console. Did Control run poorly? Sure, but not bad enough that I couldn't play it. I made it through and enjoyed my time. I didn't upgrade to a new the pro because I didn't feel like there was a good reason to do so. It seemed silly to buy a second PS4 when in a few more years they would be releasing the PS5. I don't have money issues. If I wanted, I absolutely could go and buy a PS4 pro or PS 5. But I don't want to yet because I'm still enjoying the console and games that I have. Plus, maybe the PS5 will be a little smaller and have more storage by the time I get to purchasing one. By phasing people like me or people who can't afford a new console yet out, you're just excluding a huge number of players who want to enjoy the games that they have. Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

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FacelessRyan

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@sombre said:

PC's are just as big of a limiter as consoles, if not more.

How so?

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Leopold

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I recall absolutely adoring late generation PS2 and PS3 exclusives.

Also, AAA gaming in general is becoming so artificially bloated that I wouldn't mind seeing a developer try to reach for more artistic specificity on a familiar console. I don't see the problem with continuing to support a viable platform if it makes sense on both the publisher/developer and consumer ends.

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ToughShed

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Yeah go tell the business guys that lol

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Justin258

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@sombre said:

PC's are just as big of a limiter as consoles, if not more.

How so?

I also need an answer to this question.

@leopold said:

I recall absolutely adoring late generation PS2 and PS3 exclusives.

Also, AAA gaming in general is becoming so artificially bloated that I wouldn't mind seeing a developer try to reach for more artistic specificity on a familiar console. I don't see the problem with continuing to support a viable platform if it makes sense on both the publisher/developer and consumer ends.

Also this. Since backwards compatibility is apparently such a universal feature on both of the new consoles, there's no reason why a game that can run on the Xbox One/PS4 shouldn't run on those systems. I mean, if something like Timespinner or Katana Zero comes out five years from now and runs just fine on old hardware, there's no reason why the devs shouldn't get it running on the old ones for people who just never upgraded.