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Avatar image for videogameninja
#101 Posted by videogameninja (109 posts) -

Arkham City

Bad story, glitches up the wazoo, the Riddler stuff was changed be so ridiculously time-wasting and obnoxious, and it doesn't have nearly as great a flow as the original had. Just goes to show bigger isn't always better.

Also Metroid Prime 2. Not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, in fact it's still very good, but it's just not as good as the original.

I'm somewhat surprised considering this was a strong game of the year contender when it came out but it seems to consistently be brought up in regards to the original question.

Personally speaking I thought it was a great game but I did like Asylum better. I felt City "lost" something in terms of it's flow by changing the formula from the first game and becoming more "open world."

It's funny but I thought I was the only one who thought the original was better, especially when you consider all the praise City was getting when it was released.

-STILL GOOD BUT... NINJA APPROVED-

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#102 Edited by Zlimness (632 posts) -
  • Mercenaries 2
  • Bioshock 2
  • Devil May Cry 2
  • Dragon Age 2
  • Deus Ex: Invisible War
  • Duke Nukem Forever (Does this count? It's the second FPS in the series so, I'll count it anyway)
  • Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
  • FEAR 2
  • Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2
  • Blood 2
  • Supreme Commander 2
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#103 Posted by TPoppaPuff (516 posts) -

@tpoppapuff said:

NBA Jam TE was the direct sequel to Jam, not Hangtime. It's also funny you mention Kotor 2 as many people would argue the story is actually better. I'd say mechanically it is far more interesting as well, but it is riddled with bugs. Either way I'm not going to argue about it, especially since I never finished it (game-breaking bug without a save far enough back to recover).

Tournament Edition was mostly roster updates. The core gameplay remained untouched, so I don't consider it a sequel. Especially when all the marketing for Hangtime touted it as the true sequel to NBA Jam from the original development team, or from 'the makers of NBA Jam.'

I mean, generation jumps aside, all sports sequels are roster updates. I guess it would depend on if you count Street Fighter 2 and its subtitles as sequels or not. Either way Hangtime isn't tangibly worse either, only not as popular because at that point it was old hat, but to each their own.

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#104 Posted by The_Nubster (3422 posts) -

@zlimness said:

  • Bioshock 2

I'm going to take the stage and say that Bioshock 2 was better than Bioshock 1 in every way, from story all the way to combat. Bioshock 1 was filled with political ideologies and not much else, and then it totally lost steam in the back chunk and ended with one of the worst boss fights. The morality system was pointless and easy to game and there was never any reason to use anything other than shock and the machine gun. Bishock 2 flips all of those politics on their head, expands the universe in a really smart way and is filled with characters who actually feel like they exist. Even Andrew Ryan is given more human moments despite being almost completely incidental to the story. The combat is much better and filled with more opportunities thanks to the abilities of being a Big Daddy, and they fix up a lot of the clunkiness from the first game like the gun/plasmid limitation and the hacking. The story is really smart about how it handles your choices, and the modular ending changes to fit the sort of Daddy you've been to your daughter. it's just a well-told story that manages to be endearingly human while not losing out on the philosophical aspects either.

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#105 Edited by RikiGuitarist (232 posts) -

@tpoppapuff said:
@rikiguitarist said:
@tpoppapuff said:

NBA Jam TE was the direct sequel to Jam, not Hangtime. It's also funny you mention Kotor 2 as many people would argue the story is actually better. I'd say mechanically it is far more interesting as well, but it is riddled with bugs. Either way I'm not going to argue about it, especially since I never finished it (game-breaking bug without a save far enough back to recover).

Tournament Edition was mostly roster updates. The core gameplay remained untouched, so I don't consider it a sequel. Especially when all the marketing for Hangtime touted it as the true sequel to NBA Jam from the original development team, or from 'the makers of NBA Jam.'

I mean, generation jumps aside, all sports sequels are roster updates. I guess it would depend on if you count Street Fighter 2 and its subtitles as sequels or not. Either way Hangtime isn't tangibly worse either, only not as popular because at that point it was old hat, but to each their own.

If the NBA Jam series was a yearly franchise, like the Madden and 2K series, I would agree with you.

But the NBA Jam games only had 1 roster update for each game, all 1 year afterwards. There would be no more roster updates for years after the fact, until actual sequels were made. Unlike the Madden, Live, or 2K franchises, the NBA Jam lineage, without roster updates, went from NBA Jam, NBA Hangtime, NBA Showtime, and then to NBA Hoopz. Those were all spread with multiple years of separation. The only interim releases (respectively) for roster updates were NBA Jam: Tournament Edition, NBA Maximum Hangtime, and NBA Showtime was released with the Gold edition of NFL Blitz 2000. Those roster updates literally had no gameplay changes at all. So players who followed the franchise do not consider them sequels. Even the yearly Madden and 2K are more than just roster updates, they add small, but meaningful changes to the gameplay year after year. For the NBA Jam series, I have yet to meet anyone who would consider those roster updates actual sequels. But if you do, then that's fine.

NBA Hangtime was disappointing because we waited years in anticipation for a sequel to NBA Jam. But what we got was an NBA Jam with no changes to the gamplay. The only addition was the create a player, which would always cost you an extra quarter at the arcades to create and/or use your created player. Your created player was also tied to that machine, so you couldn't bounce around other cabinets to player other people, or if that machine was under maintenance.

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#106 Posted by ChasinTheTrane (7 posts) -

I feel like it's more common for the sequel to not be as good as the original, with some obvious exceptions like Mass Effect. Sometimes the selling point is some sort of original concept, which is impossible to recreate. Remember Zelda II?

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#107 Posted by void (253 posts) -

I feel like it's more common for the sequel to not be as good as the original, with some obvious exceptions like Mass Effect. Sometimes the selling point is some sort of original concept, which is impossible to recreate. Remember Zelda II?

I believe this thread was started as a result of this other thread where it was a lot easier to come up with sequels surpassing the original than the other way around.

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#108 Posted by caesius6 (258 posts) -

@tophar01: Ah, Dead Space 2 was awesome! Aside from that multiplayer mode that I am pretending never existed. I felt the intensity, horror and action was just cranked up all the way for that sequel. I really enjoyed it.

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#109 Posted by TPoppaPuff (516 posts) -

@rikiguitarist: I mean, you might not consider it a sequel but it was a full priced game with additions made to it and did add stuff to the gameplay:

Improvements include additional power-ups, more detailed player attributes, player substitutions after each quarter, and a new soundtrack. The namesake "Tournament Mode" turns off all cheats and power-ups, and rewards players with expanded rosters for nearly all teams if the player beats all 27 teams.

In addition to these features, console releases added practice and “juice” modes, optional game toggles like "hotspots" and power-up icons, and an "injury" stat that lowers a character's stats. Later console releases (Jaguar, Saturn, PlayStation) also featured larger character sprites and scaling effects to match those of the Arcade version.

...Small, but significant changes in the T.E. include slightly improved A.I., game speed, new dunks, and court changes matching the color of the home team.

TE changed the strategy (substitutions, player stats), pace (game speed), and gameplay (improved AI, hotspots, injury). I mean honestly, I don't see how you can say TE isn't a sequel but Hangtime is when they are both equal in terms of diverging from the original. I mean, why isn't Hangtime considered a roster update as well?

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#110 Posted by RikiGuitarist (232 posts) -

@rikiguitarist: I mean, you might not consider it a sequel but it was a full priced game with additions made to it and did add stuff to the gameplay:

Improvements include additional power-ups, more detailed player attributes, player substitutions after each quarter, and a new soundtrack. The namesake "Tournament Mode" turns off all cheats and power-ups, and rewards players with expanded rosters for nearly all teams if the player beats all 27 teams.

In addition to these features, console releases added practice and “juice” modes, optional game toggles like "hotspots" and power-up icons, and an "injury" stat that lowers a character's stats. Later console releases (Jaguar, Saturn, PlayStation) also featured larger character sprites and scaling effects to match those of the Arcade version.

...Small, but significant changes in the T.E. include slightly improved A.I., game speed, new dunks, and court changes matching the color of the home team.

TE changed the strategy (substitutions, player stats), pace (game speed), and gameplay (improved AI, hotspots, injury). I mean honestly, I don't see how you can say TE isn't a sequel but Hangtime is when they are both equal in terms of diverging from the original. I mean, why isn't Hangtime considered a roster update as well?

Those changes were for the console releases. The only console version I played was NBA Jam for the Genesis. The arcade versions didn't see those slight gameplay changes, and were mostly roster updates until the actual named sequels.

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#111 Posted by TPoppaPuff (516 posts) -

@tpoppapuff said:

@rikiguitarist: I mean, you might not consider it a sequel but it was a full priced game with additions made to it and did add stuff to the gameplay:

Improvements include additional power-ups, more detailed player attributes, player substitutions after each quarter, and a new soundtrack. The namesake "Tournament Mode" turns off all cheats and power-ups, and rewards players with expanded rosters for nearly all teams if the player beats all 27 teams.

In addition to these features, console releases added practice and “juice” modes, optional game toggles like "hotspots" and power-up icons, and an "injury" stat that lowers a character's stats. Later console releases (Jaguar, Saturn, PlayStation) also featured larger character sprites and scaling effects to match those of the Arcade version.

...Small, but significant changes in the T.E. include slightly improved A.I., game speed, new dunks, and court changes matching the color of the home team.

TE changed the strategy (substitutions, player stats), pace (game speed), and gameplay (improved AI, hotspots, injury). I mean honestly, I don't see how you can say TE isn't a sequel but Hangtime is when they are both equal in terms of diverging from the original. I mean, why isn't Hangtime considered a roster update as well?

Those changes were for the console releases. The only console version I played was NBA Jam for the Genesis. The arcade versions didn't see those slight gameplay changes, and were mostly roster updates until the actual named sequels.

That's true. I still have a hard time seeing Hangtime as any different from TE seeing as how by your own admission the only real difference between Hangtime and Jam was Create a Player, which I would say was less game changing as the console versions of TE.

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#112 Posted by RikiGuitarist (232 posts) -

@tpoppapuff: The create a player was kind of broken, because someone could min/max a created player's attributes, and for example, constantly sink three pointers every time and be on fire. Or do the same with the Dunk or Steal stat, and be broken in all sorts of different ways. It was abused to the point where it was frowned upon at my local Nickel City if someone dropped in that extra quarter.

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#113 Edited by Palmlykta (278 posts) -

I'm often curious as to why a lot people seem to like Resident Evil 2 more than the first one. I mean it is a fine game but to me Resident Evil 1 is much better in every way (except visuals) than it's successor.

Also, Devil May Cry 2 is easily the worst sequel I've ever played. (we have a winner here!)

As an aside, both Blaster Master and Strider got horrible western-developed sequels.

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#115 Posted by Captain_Insano (3080 posts) -

Dragon Age 2

Rome 2: Total War

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#116 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (6861 posts) -

@void said:

I tried to think of some second sequels not already mentioned:

  • Full Spectrum Warrior: Ten Hammers

Very true...the first game was good...my favorite game on Xbox

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#117 Posted by Blackout62 (2112 posts) -

Mirror's Edge: Catalyst

Also I regret coming here and learning that Giant Bomb is one of those trash on Dragon Age II communities.

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#118 Edited by OpusOfTheMagnum (441 posts) -

Lots. Some of them were even excellent games in their own right. Dragon Age 2 is a big one for me as I loved what Origins did and it is still in my top 3 favorite games.

I also thought Mass Effect 2 was worse than the original but I recognize that was more due to personal taste than actual quality.

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#119 Posted by OpusOfTheMagnum (441 posts) -

@bbalpert: MW2 is definitely fair game as MW1 was so transformative. I'd argue that Black Ops took too much from that formula to really split out in my view. Also MW2 and Black Ops 2 werre certainly better than their predecessors so dont get any ideas.

People who picked Halo 2: did you not get into MP? I feel like a lot of people consider that a very high point for the multiplayer. I actually agree that Halo 2 wasnt as good but I liked the bad parts of Combat Evolved so I'm a bad judge. Yeah the story ended abruptly but that didn't bother me and the multiplayer was undeniably excellent.

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#120 Posted by BabyChooChoo (6778 posts) -

Devil May Cry 2 is the big one for me. That game is just a stupid fucking dumpster fire all around. It makes me angry just to think about the shitty bosses and level design.

I've have to throw Infamous 2 and Borderlands 2 in there as well. Both sequels in my opinion suffered from godawful writing. I won't even begin to claim the first game in each franchise was some writing masterpiece because they were most certainly not that, but the sequels just fucking stumbled at every turn in that department. Infamous 2 is just...dumb. It feels like a rather straightforward story that was afterwards taken and adapted to fit with the morality system. The pacing is all over the goddamn place and characters constantly act uncharacteristically just so they can throw in a shitty good/evil choice.

Borderlands 2 though? That is the holy grail of terrible writing in a AAA release. And if it's not the worst, it's definitely up there with the worst of 'em. This game is the equivalent of a shitty comedian sitting next to you, megaphone in hand, constantly screaming "HEY HEY IS THIS FUNNY? YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY YET? HOW ABOUT THIS? IS THIS FUNNY? DANK MEMES, BRO. INTERNET HUMOR. LOLZ RANDOM. SO FUNNY, RIGHT? DICK JOKE DICK JOKE DICK JOKE AMIRITE?"

It is honestly without a doubt the most grating game I have ever played. I had to put it on mute and turn off subtitles because I just couldn't take it anymore. It is baffling how unfunny that game is.

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#121 Posted by n00bs7ay3r (252 posts) -

Red Faction: Armageddon. Guerrilla was such a great game and a sequel that actually expanded on the good parts of that game could have been amazing. Unfortunately they made some sort of weird Dead Space looking thing and sunk the franchise.

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#122 Posted by Anund (1258 posts) -
  • Dragon Age 2 - I liked it more than most people, but the first was a masterpiece and the second was middling
  • Mass Effect 2 - Not a bad game, but definitely worse than the first
  • Dark Souls 2 - I loved the first one, but the second never dragged me into its world

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#123 Edited by ChunLiXiaoyuFan (40 posts) -

Dragon Age 2. But if we're talking about overall sequels, then Soul Calibur V. Gone were half of the of iconic cast (most of them being female) and in their places were a bunch of extremely annoying and unlikable clones with only minor differences being made to said previous characters' movesets. In addition to that, there were 3 mimic characters and 2 versions of Patroklos and Pyrrha, who were by far the worst main characters to ever grace gaming history with their constant whining and crying, that took up 7 slots on the character roster. Plus, the 17-year time skip was completely unnecessary and only added more fuel to the fire and the single player content was incredibly lacking. Thankfully, then-director Daishi Odishima left Project Soul after he created that abysmal failure of a Soul series release. But sadly, the Soul series is still in turmoil thanks to three more failures that followed afterwards: Soul Calibur: Lost Swords, Soul Calibur: Unbreakable Soul, and a Soul Calibur pachinko slot machine release. So, the Soul series is all but dead at this point. ?

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#124 Posted by Jesus_Phish (3384 posts) -

Hotline Miami 2 and Olli Olli 2 are both worse than the originals. Not terrible games, but I found both took a wrong turn in their direction.

Hotline Miami 2 went with bigger maps and less satisfying masks and Olli Olli 2 went with making a game that seemed less about pulling off rad tricks and more about finishing tricky levels.

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#125 Posted by videogameninja (109 posts) -

Mirror's Edge: Catalyst

Also I regret coming here and learning that Giant Bomb is one of those trash on Dragon Age II communities.

Apparently it's not just Giant Bomb.

I've asked this question on a few different forums and surprisingly (or not depending on your perspective.) Dragon age 2 is consistently brought up. I never played the game myself so I'm in no position to comment but the amount of criticism hurled it's way makes me believe it must somehow be warranted.

-INFAMOUS REPUTATION NINJA APPROVED-

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#126 Edited by hermes (2411 posts) -

@chasinthetrane said:

I feel like it's more common for the sequel to not be as good as the original, with some obvious exceptions like Mass Effect. Sometimes the selling point is some sort of original concept, which is impossible to recreate. Remember Zelda II?

I thought it was the other way around. Most of the times, direct sequels build on top of the first one, so they only had to focus on "making the same, but bigger" and polish the most obvious rough edges to attract the same public. Besides, by the second game the original team is mostly onboard and the public is not yet tired. It is much easier to find third games in a franchise that jumped the shark than franchises that did it on their second attempt.

On topic:

  • X-COM 2
  • Final Fantasy X-2
  • ... and a myriad other titles already mentioned here.
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#127 Posted by EthanielRain (1535 posts) -

@toopopplio@blackout62 DA2 is secretly amazing, some people just don't know!

The Walking Dead season 2 (Telltale) and Darksiders 2 disappointed me the most recently.

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#128 Posted by videogameninja (109 posts) -

Devil May Cry 2 is the big one for me. That game is just a stupid fucking dumpster fire all around. It makes me angry just to think about the shitty bosses and level design.

I've have to throw Infamous 2 and Borderlands 2 in there as well. Both sequels in my opinion suffered from godawful writing. I won't even begin to claim the first game in each franchise was some writing masterpiece because they were most certainly not that, but the sequels just fucking stumbled at every turn in that department. Infamous 2 is just...dumb. It feels like a rather straightforward story that was afterwards taken and adapted to fit with the morality system. The pacing is all over the goddamn place and characters constantly act uncharacteristically just so they can throw in a shitty good/evil choice.

Borderlands 2 though? That is the holy grail of terrible writing in a AAA release. And if it's not the worst, it's definitely up there with the worst of 'em. This game is the equivalent of a shitty comedian sitting next to you, megaphone in hand, constantly screaming "HEY HEY IS THIS FUNNY? YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY YET? HOW ABOUT THIS? IS THIS FUNNY? DANK MEMES, BRO. INTERNET HUMOR. LOLZ RANDOM. SO FUNNY, RIGHT? DICK JOKE DICK JOKE DICK JOKE AMIRITE?"

It is honestly without a doubt the most grating game I have ever played. I had to put it on mute and turn off subtitles because I just couldn't take it anymore. It is baffling how unfunny that game is.

LMAO!

Okay… that right there literally made me spit out my drink.

-BABYCHOOCHOO APPROVED-

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#129 Posted by avantegardener (2104 posts) -

Toejam and Earl: Panic of Funkatron

Dragon Age 2

Avatar image for videogameninja
#130 Posted by videogameninja (109 posts) -

Toejam and Earl: Panic of Funkatron

Dragon Age 2

Now that's a title I haven't heard in years. I bet if you mentioned it to some of the younger gamers out there now you would get a few strange looks.

-EARL'S GOT WHAT!? NINJA APPROVED-

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#131 Posted by Lazyimperial (454 posts) -

@aruhamel: if you're going to cherry pick examples of bad dialogue from KOTOR 1, you should always include as much Carth Onasi as possible. :-P

The thing is, I prefer the campier dialogue of KOTOR 1 to whatever the heck the dialogue was supposed to be for the last half of KOTOR 2. Kiera from the latter still stands out in my mind as one of the most egregiously obnoxious examples of bad NPC dialogue. Her bizarre, out-of-the-blue warning not to impregnate one of my crewmates. Her endless attempts to blow my mind with her clichéd, tired "true neutral" D&D rubbish (light side, dark side? Why must the force have a side? OOOooo! BAM!). The pathetic train-wreck of an ending where she becomes a fortune teller and foresees the futures of all my crewmates (save the horned engineer guy, who apparently died somehow, somewhere. Who knows?). Arguably a better conclusion than Neverwinter Nights 2, I guess... in which a homeless, drug addled vagrant plucked out of a nearby alley haphazardly explained that a rock slide squished my team after the last boss fight.

And say what one may about Darth Malak, but at least he was a consistently ho-hum Darth Vader equivalent. As opposed to the sometimes-Scottish, sometimes-not Darth Crispy and the mute, completely lackluster and non-threatening Darth Nihilus. Oh, and Darth Kiera... because of course she was evil. She was clearly evil the whole time. Compared to the Darth Revan reveal, she was especially atrocious.

Just a darn shame, really. On a different note, wow... I'm amazed to see Arkham City and FEAR 2 on so many lists. Arkham Asylum is my personal favorite, but Arkham City dramatically improved the combat variety and made good on adding to the solid foundation from Asylum. To me, it's the superior game despite my preference. Meanwhile, FEAR 2 refined much of what made FEAR 1 great while dumping the overly repetitive level design and monotony. Now FEAR 3... that was the franchise killing dumpster fire of that particular trilogy. *shudder*