What is the most complex game you have ever played?

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Godwind

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#1  Edited By Godwind

I was going through a list of games I wanted to see on the virtual console and came across a title known as Legacy of the Wizards aka Dragon Slayer 4.  To say in short, this goes without a doubt the most complex game I have ever played.  This isn't to say it is difficult.  I've never died once in this game.  In addition, the game has a tendency to provide drop items when you need it.   When I say the say the game is overwhelming, I am talking about it's ability to overwhelm the mind.
 
It's complexity comes from just the vast size of the dungeon.  The dungeon is designed to be a maze.  In each maze there are hidden passages which places the game with a lot of .  It would be best if I made some comparisons to other games like it that are designed to be maze like.
 
My first example, The Original Legend of Zelda

     Overworld Map
 Overworld Map

 
 
     The Last Dungeon
 The Last Dungeon

My Second Example The Legend of Zelda 2

     Zelda 2 Overworld
 Zelda 2 Overworld


     The Great Palace
 The Great Palace

My last example will be Metroid

     Metroid World
 Metroid World

 
To be fair, Zelda really isn't the best comparison, but a close comparison.  The game is designed to be like a maze and easy to get lost.  However, the dungeon and the overworld is not integrated making it much easier to wrap one's mind around.  Which is why Metroid fairs as a better comparison.  With that said, Metroid certainly looks like a maze, however, the design of it is still very structured into areas.
 
Now check out the map for the Legacy of the Wizard.

No Caption Provided

  The first thing you see is a cluster of ransom designs put together.  But believe it or not, this dungeon is divided into 5 areas.  You may think that is 5 areas for each of the 5 playable characters.  You would be wrong.  To further understand the point, each character has unique traits and features about them that is used for exploring for specific areas of the dungeon. The pet dog is used for exploring areas where it is dangerous (as he does not receive damage from monsters).  Then there is the daughter who jumps super high and reach areas usually unreachable by other people.  Then there is the mother who can explore areas with spiked locations.  Then the father who can move blocks.  Then you have the son who is used for defeating the last boss, when the other family members obtain the crowns used for getting the sword to slay the dragon.
 
Now you say "okay, I'm all set right?"  Wrong.  First you need to obtain the items needed to explore these areas.  In order to get these items you need to collect the items from areas where other characters are able to explore.  In addition, every area has secret traps, passage ways, puzzles and all sorts of crap that gets in the way.  It is probably better if you played for yourself to figure out why it is so difficult.  Also, don't use a walkthrough, you would be losing the experience I am trying the explain. 
 
Also, here is some music for sampling.
 
Intro Theme
  
  
  Overworld Theme
  
  
Dungeon Theme
  
  

  Pochi's Theme
  
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dapperman

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#2  Edited By dapperman

Can I just be the first to say,  
AAAAAAAAAAAAH HOLY SHIT!!!!! :O 
 
That map has destroyed a piece of me, mad respect for you getting through that

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Chris2KLee

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#3  Edited By Chris2KLee

Those early Dungeons and Dragons gold box games where mindfucks sometimes.

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ESREVER

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#4  Edited By ESREVER

Oh man! I have this game, and I tried to play it when I was like 6. I had no idea how this game worked! Maybe I should go back and try to figure it out now... I've actually been trying to recall this game for sometime now, but instantly knew it was it from the cartridge art.  
Thanks!

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WilyBoy

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#5  Edited By WilyBoy

Dwarf Fortress is the most complex game I ever (tried) to play. It was fun up until one of my dwarves went insane and killed all the other dwarves.
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thuiscool

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#6  Edited By thuiscool

I haven't really played any of these old games, but Resonance of Fate's battle system was pretty complicated(well, to me at least).

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melcene

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#7  Edited By melcene

I remember Alundra being a big pain in the ass, though I enjoyed it.  Lots of puzzles to figure your way through basically.   
 
I'd also have to say Everquest.  Imagine having to go up to an NPC with a quest item in your bags, and try to remember the keyword to trigger the NPC to talk about the quest so you could turn in the stupid items.  Corpse retrievals, on-foot travel.  The early days of EQ were HELL.

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StarvingGamer

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#8  Edited By StarvingGamer

Probably a flight sim that I played for 5 minutes on my uncle's computer when I was 7.  Other than that Steel Battalion.

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EquitasInvictus

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#9  Edited By EquitasInvictus

I'd say Rome: Total War since it was the first game of that formula I picked up - I was intrigued by the two sides to the game - the campaign which is a map of Europe with turn-based gameplay that incorporates a system for economy, diplomacy and of course conquest. The second side was the real-time combat end that would occur during your conquest which would include normal battles between armies and even sieges at some points.   
 
Between the campaign's economic and diplomatic ends and the complexity of having hundreds of cavalry/infantry/artillery units on the field ended up making me pretty mindful about how they conducted warfare in the old days. 
 
As an example of how interesting the economic side can be in a campaign, you can choose to occupy, enslave or exterminate a conquered settlement. I used to always choose the option to exterminate because it would produce the most immediate funds; however, I lated learned enslavement was actually the most economically sound option by providing for a greater revenue generated by the settlement after every turn due to it being a resource for slaves.

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KaosAngel

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#10  Edited By KaosAngel

Big Rigs

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Jeust

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#11  Edited By Jeust

The original Prince of Persia.  
 

No Caption Provided
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Skytylz

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#12  Edited By Skytylz

Pong, I just could never wrap my mind around it. 
 
 
Seriously though, I was going to say the original Zelda.  That game just throws you in there and says go!  

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Potter9156

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#13  Edited By Potter9156

Dwarf Fortress. No game is more complex. 

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jmfinamore

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#14  Edited By jmfinamore
@KaosAngel: Holy Eff, I own that game! I had no idea how to play it as a kid lol
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ChristianCastillo

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I never could get how to play Final Fantasy Tactics.

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MrKlorox

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#16  Edited By MrKlorox

Shadow Complex... Hawww!
 
No. But seriously, I think it might be Arma 2 recently (all the indirect command controls blow my mind) or Civilization 2 back in the day (for obvious reasons).
 
Oh and Virtual Hydlide on Sega Saturn drove me so fucking CRAZY.

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cgoodno

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#17  Edited By cgoodno

Wizardry VI.  So much to keep track of.  Even creating a character in that game took me a while to decide on.  Of course, I was only a kid...

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MikkaQ

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#18  Edited By MikkaQ

For me... any SRPG. An RPG with a grid... kinda scary enough, but when there are crazy strategic and tactical nuances to the fighting... I get so lost!

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RVonE

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#19  Edited By RVonE
@KaosAngel said:
" Big Rigs "
It's the only right answer.
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Animasta

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#20  Edited By Animasta

Victoria: An Empire under the Sun, that game is just way too crazy.
 
as far as a game I regularly play, I play EU3 often, and that game's a little nuts :P

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Aronman789

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#21  Edited By Aronman789

Dwarf Fortress and Hearts of Iron

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csl316

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#22  Edited By csl316

Vagrant Story could get extremely complex if you let it, including equipment, magic, break arts, weapon crafting, etc.  I beat it 9 times so I eventually mastered every single aspect.  No small feat.
 
Oh, and the original Valkyrie Profile had a ton of stats and other crap to juggle.  At least, it seemed a bit crazy when I first saw it.

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ProfessorEss

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#23  Edited By ProfessorEss

The first ones that always come to mind for me (time of release being a big factor) are Below the Root and Ultima (the original as well as the other big jumps in thefranchise, including UO of course). 

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zeforgotten

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#24  Edited By zeforgotten

EVE for the first two days. Then you quickly got the hang of it

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Jeust

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#25  Edited By Jeust
@MrKlorox said:

"Oh and Virtual Hydlide on Sega Saturn drove me so fucking CRAZY. "

It was fine for me. I even - dare I say? - liked the game. ^^
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MrKlorox

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#26  Edited By MrKlorox
@Jeust said:
" @MrKlorox said:

"Oh and Virtual Hydlide on Sega Saturn drove me so fucking CRAZY. "

It was fine for me. I even - dare I say? - liked the game. ^^ "
Keep in mind I was 12 when I first encountered it in the wild. Randomized games (especially from the first/third person perspective) were pretty non-existent on consoles at the time. And the relentless unforgiving nature made sure it stayed in my mind a good 15 years after I rented it multiple times. I recently emulated it and I still hate it, yet respect it. I might as well add it to my mental list of modern (re)remakes I'd like to play.
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Malakhii

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#27  Edited By Malakhii
I'd have to echo other people and say Dwarf Fortress. For some reason that game is really hard for me to wrap my head around. 
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toowalrus

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#28  Edited By toowalrus
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Claude

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#29  Edited By Claude
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#30  Edited By soulfulsoul

Falcon 4.0. A flight sim that came with a manual in a binder with somthing like 300 pages. I would probably also call it the worst game I ever bought. It had a review score of over 90% from the PC game magazine I was reading at the time, but it was NO fun at all, and the graphics outside of the cockpit were quite ugly.
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ALMIGHTYCHEEKS

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#31  Edited By ALMIGHTYCHEEKS

rpg maker 2. you needed a phd just to play that friggin game

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Mighty

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#32  Edited By Mighty

StarCraft 2
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Snipzor

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#33  Edited By Snipzor

Dwarf Fortress all the way. Until you learn how to play, then there's another layer of complexity in figuring out how to play. Many z-levels of complexity if you will.

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xaLieNxGrEyx

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#34  Edited By xaLieNxGrEyx
@ChristianCastillo said:
"I never could get how to play Final Fantasy Tactics. "


Divide and conquer, swarm and flank
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FancySoapsMan

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#35  Edited By FancySoapsMan

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

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Jeust

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#36  Edited By Jeust
@MrKlorox said:
" @Jeust said:
" @MrKlorox said:

"Oh and Virtual Hydlide on Sega Saturn drove me so fucking CRAZY. "

It was fine for me. I even - dare I say? - liked the game. ^^ "
Keep in mind I was 12 when I first encountered it in the wild. Randomized games (especially from the first/third person perspective) were pretty non-existent on consoles at the time. And the relentless unforgiving nature made sure it stayed in my mind a good 15 years after I rented it multiple times. I recently emulated it and I still hate it, yet respect it. I might as well add it to my mental list of modern (re)remakes I'd like to play. "
Yeah, I only played it a little later, from a friend's borrowed Saturn. 
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Sin4profit

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#37  Edited By Sin4profit
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subject2change

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#38  Edited By subject2change

Quake 3 Arena and/or Team Fortress Classic.

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Kjellm87

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#39  Edited By Kjellm87
SWEET JESUS, well at the time anyway
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LeetBalla

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#40  Edited By LeetBalla
@KaosAngel said:
" Big Rigs "
There is a difference between broken and complex. Also, that reference was never funny, neither was the review.
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Hourai

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#41  Edited By Hourai

Dorf Fortress. 

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FancySoapsMan

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#42  Edited By FancySoapsMan
@Sin4profit said:
" Jagged Alliance 2  and/ or one of the Xcom games i started ad couldn't figure out what was going on. "
I don't think the X-com games are all that complex, they're just hard as hell
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HypoXenophobia

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#43  Edited By HypoXenophobia
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MrKlorox

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#44  Edited By MrKlorox
@FancySoapsMan said:
" @Sin4profit said:
" Jagged Alliance 2  and/ or one of the Xcom games i started ad couldn't figure out what was going on. "
I don't think the X-com games are all that complex, they're just hard as hell "
Of all the games that could use a tutorial, XCOM is high up on my list. Too bad the reboot coming from Ken Levine Mass Market Research CO. LTD. won't be a fraction as complex or tactically deep.
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Snipzor

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#45  Edited By Snipzor
@FancySoapsMan said:
" @Sin4profit said:
" Jagged Alliance 2  and/ or one of the Xcom games i started ad couldn't figure out what was going on. "
I don't think the X-com games are all that complex, they're just hard as hell "
It gets easy though... or so I've been told.
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deactivated-5d7530f19fbe4

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@thuiscool: I think it's the most complicated battle system ever. It's certainly the most complicated game I've ever played. Edit: Most complicated battle system for something that isn't a strategy game.
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Sin4profit

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#47  Edited By Sin4profit
@MrKlorox said:
" @FancySoapsMan said:
" @Sin4profit said:
" Jagged Alliance 2  and/ or one of the Xcom games i started ad couldn't figure out what was going on. "
I don't think the X-com games are all that complex, they're just hard as hell "
Of all the games that could use a tutorial, XCOM is high up on my list. Too bad the reboot coming from Ken Levine Mass Market Research CO. LTD. won't be a fraction as complex or tactically deep. "
it was X-com UFO Defense i just send ships out and alot of nothing happens...no idea what's going on.
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RVonE

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#48  Edited By RVonE
@LeetBalla said:
" @KaosAngel said:
" Big Rigs "
There is a difference between broken and complex. Also, that reference was never funny, neither was the review. "
I disagree with that sentiment, sir.
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heatDrive88

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#49  Edited By heatDrive88
@melcene said:
"I'd also have to say Everquest.  Imagine having to go up to an NPC with a quest item in your bags, and try to remember the keyword to trigger the NPC to talk about the quest so you could turn in the stupid items.  Corpse retrievals, on-foot travel.  The early days of EQ were HELL. "
This is pretty much my answer as well. Back in the day, that game pretty much derailed most of my ability to show up to class in high school.
 
Another game that I simply couldn't wrap my head around when I was younger is Ogre Battle, on the SNES. I haven't tried revisiting it since playing it then, but I had a really hard time figuring that game out when I was younger, especially considering it was so completely different from any other sort of RPG at the time when all I probably had under my belt at that time was Final Fantasy 2 and Lufia on the SNES.
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ShadowSkill11

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#50  Edited By ShadowSkill11

X-Com: UFO Defense, Eve: Online, Homeworld, Baldurs Gate 2, Steel Battalion, Sins of a Solar Empire. 5 PC games and an XBox 1 game. Sorry guys, Nintendo games all seemed to follow the same basic patterns and I never found them particularly complex even 20 years ago when I was 10.