What's the deal with.. Nintendo?

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Pezen

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#1  Edited By Pezen

It's been suggested that I hate Nintendo. At least in the irc chat. But that's not relevant now. Ever since E3 and the announcement of Wii U, it's been bugging me. The notion that Nintendo for all it's sold consoles, still doesn't really know what they're doing. A small part of me will always like Nintendo for being my childhood console of choice, but around N64 they fell out of interest to me due to Playstation and the type of games available to me there. And ever since then, I look at Nintendo with a mixture of wonder and pure bewilderment because they succeed despite doing crazy things that shouldn't work.

When they announced the Wii, I was excited and curious because it was something different. But, I didn't reallt buy into their notion that old controllers were hard to understand and their way was easier. Eventually though, the realization that it lacked fidelity and the target audience was only part the pure Nintendo fans and the new casuals. The latter is a group of people were a rather unreliable gamble, but it was a group Nintendo managed to trick into their system probably less due to the new controls, but more due to the fact that the games accompanying those controls were simple and easy to learn. And I think there's a reason a lot of Wii:s only have those games on the shelf. I have yet to see someone have a hard time using the 360 controller playing Risk or Carcassonne. It's all about the games and how they make the player use the controller. Most of us have the good fortune of having grown up with the controller evolution so we're already trained for the FPS layout a lot of people new to games really can't multitask the first time. However, if you start them on simple games and move them up, they too will get it. Don't insult people's intelligence.

So, here comes E3 and Nintendo announces a new console (really, it's not just a controller, dudes) and suddenly they're fishing for the lost market. The third party support and the mature games. So, they create a controller-tablet-thing that can support those games, while still sticking with the Wii controllers as well. This begs the question; are they painting themselves into a corner and spreading themselves too thin? Because if regular controllers are too complicated, then why not wait a bit and release Wii 2 and stick with the wii controllers and boost fidelity and graphics on par with the other new consoles? And if regular controllers are not too complicated, why not go back to that? Now we're facing a middle-of-the-road approach to their system, trying to please everyone yet throw in yet another wacky idea (the controller screen). On top of all of that, it's an incremental upgrade graphics wise by the sound of it as it's been said to be comparable to current gen systems. But that also makes no sense in the "now they don't have to make a weird version of the other games" argument, as once the other manufacturers get to making new consoles, cross platform will still have to be ported "down" to Wii U. And furthermore, if you can only use one of those controllers, you still have to adjust any local multi-play to the regular wii controllers for it to work.

I've heard arguments that since this will please all sorts of people, this might be the go-to console for core gamers since they get both things. But what core gamer doesn't already have a console capable of what this console will do horsepower-wise? And on top of that, once a generation shift happens, what core gamers are going to want to stick with a console half a step back when the new ones go forward? It seem too far fetched.

I am curious to see if their new casual audience will buy into this new console and if the core audience will adopt it due to it's so-called possibilities. Personally, I'm skeptical.

I should note that the only true benefit to this console and that controller I've managed to think up, was playing a game like Assassin's Creed without any hud elements and keep the map/ammo/health on that controller instead. That, I would like.

So what say you?

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xaLieNxGrEyx

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#2  Edited By xaLieNxGrEyx

Replace Nintendo with Mircosoft for me.  
 
How the hell does the kinect sell? Wtf?
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iam3green

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#3  Edited By iam3green

it's pretty weird stuff. i was just thinking about buying a nintendo wii u to sell it. you never know if it's going to sell like when the wii came out. 
 
i didn't buy a nintendo system since last generation, gamecube and DS. i bought them expecting like a n64. it changed to different people that i didn't like. i ended up getting a ps2 also. i played that more than the gamecube.

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Grumbel

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#4  Edited By Grumbel
@Pezen said:
I am curious to see if their new casual audience will buy into this new console and if the core audience will adopt it due to it's so-called possibilities. 
That's the thing, at the moment I really can't see at all how the casual audience would by into Wii U, as what matters for the casuals are the motion games and those are the exact same on the Wii U, they didn't improve the Wiimote at all (except included Motion Plus), they didn't show any new concepts for it, nothing. For the hardcore they have the new controller, but while maybe interesting, it really is just an incremental jump, they still seem to kind of not care about that whole online business or being multimedia capable (no DVD, BluRay, etc.)
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Grumbel

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#5  Edited By Grumbel
@xaLieNxGrEyx said:
Replace Nintendo with Mircosoft for me.   How the hell does the kinect sell? Wtf?
Wiimote sold because it was arm waggle, Kinect is the next step: full body waggle. I am not really supprised that the concept sells, I am however a little surprised that it sells with almost no good games.
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SadPatrol

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#6  Edited By SadPatrol
@xaLieNxGrEyx

Replace Nintendo with Mircosoft for me.  
 
How the hell does the kinect sell? Wtf?
Honestlly, I never see kinect in stores it's always sold with the console so that might be the reason.
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cookiemonster

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#7  Edited By cookiemonster

I'm disappointed there has been this many posts and nobody has uploaded a picture of jerry seinfeld yet. 

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christ0phe

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#8  Edited By christ0phe

what's the deal with your wall of text

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Famov

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#9  Edited By Famov
@Pezen said:

 The notion that Nintendo for all it's sold consoles, still doesn't really know what they're doing.

They're a multibillion dollar company, which all on its own makes this statement factually incorrect. We'll see with the 3DS and Wii U, but with the Wii it is clear that the knew exactly what they were doing.
 

Nintendo managed to trick into their system probably less due to the new controls, but more due to the fact that the games accompanying those controls were simple and easy to learn. 

This is where you're stacking the deck. I can use the same sort of argumentatively dishonest language on Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft managed to trick people into buying a piece of garbage hardware that breaks itself, forcing customers into absurd semi annual repairs. Sony managed to trick people into buying an overpriced console with awful broken networking that still managed to compare unfavorably to the tech specs of a half decent computer anyway. This, truly, is the year of the PS3!
 
Has it not occurred to you that these "casuals" who purchased the Wii do not regret doing so? They may not "game" four hours a day but this does not invalidate their experiences with the console. This does not prevent the Wii from being the inarguable success that it is. I choose to assume the same goes for the Xbox and PS3, and for those guys who overhaul their computer every four years. Because if you really want to start understanding the appeal of something, the first thing to do is not assume that everyone who likes it is an idiot.
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SSValis

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#10  Edited By SSValis

be careful son these kids love them some Nintendo

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lazyturtle

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#11  Edited By lazyturtle

I sure wish my wife hadn't bought a Wii...on the other hand, my 5 year old loves some Mario Kart, DeBlob2 and Lego Starwars. 
I wanted to like it too. I had a gamefly account for about a year where I just got Wii games...I didn't find a single one that I wanted to keep for more than a few days. I won't be buying into the Wii U.  
 
But Nintendo knows how to make money..thats something.

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Pezen

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#12  Edited By Pezen

@Famov said:

They're a multibillion dollar company, which all on its own makes this statement factually incorrect. We'll see with the 3DS and Wii U, but with the Wii it is clear that the knew exactly what they were doing.

First of all, being a multibillion company means nothing, just look at the PSP. And to me it seems like Wii was successful despite itself, because I never heard any new people say "You know, I really like this motion thing." Most people said; "Bowling is awesome!" -- Hence, games rather than hardware was the main draw.

@Famov said:

This is where you're stacking the deck. I can use the same sort of argumentatively dishonest language on Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft managed to trick people into buying a piece of garbage hardware that breaks itself, forcing customers into absurd semi annual repairs. Sony managed to trick people into buying an overpriced console with awful broken networking that still managed to compare unfavorably to the tech specs of a half decent computer anyway. This, truly, is the year of the PS3! Has it not occurred to you that these "casuals" who purchased the Wii do not regret doing so? They may not "game" four hours a day but this does not invalidate their experiences with the console. This does not prevent the Wii from being the inarguable success that it is. I choose to assume the same goes for the Xbox and PS3, and for those guys who overhaul their computer every four years. Because if you really want to start understanding the appeal of something, the first thing to do is not assume that everyone who likes it is an idiot.

If we're being objective, all companies regarding all sorts of services and goods want to trick you into thinking you need their products and/or services because most of the time we don't need them to survive. Furthermore, if we all were not so gullible, we wouldn't be walking posters for products we like. But they tap into deep rooted instincts and that's why some people defend brands like it's their little brother.

But to reply to your actual argument; I've never argued the Wii wasn't a success. Nor that those who bought it was idiots who didn't enjoy themselves. I said that I think Wii was a success because of a lot of reasons not necessarily control related. And I also said that the casual (and honestly, I am only using that words to make a point, to me anyone playing video games no matter frequency is in some form "a gamer") market they opened up is rocky to put your faith into because they don't necessarily upgrade with the console cycles. And so, if they don't have the core market as much, and their new market might not make the leap to the next generation because they already have a Wii, they're in a bad place. This is why I'm saying Nintendo is running the risk of alienating their market by their "wide and deep" strategy. Because from what I understand, the 'core' market is the most stable return customer and Nintendo has put all it's past effort and money into the 'casual'. So unless this machine is really a good alternative to future consoles for core gamers, they have once again have to put their faith into the casual market. And if they do buy into Wii U, they'll probably be successful again, no doubt. But that's a somewhat big if.

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SleepyDoughnut

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#13  Edited By SleepyDoughnut
@christ0phe said:

what's the deal with your wall of text

It's actually a well thought out point. What's the deal with you being too lazy to read?
 
In regards to the actual topic, I think Nintendo's pretty impossible to predict. Who would of thought the DS would become the best selling handheld of all time? It seems sensible in retrospect, but at the time, even though I wanted one, I was like "man, this thing looks kind of dumb".
 

@Pezen

said:


First of all, being a multibillion company means nothing, just look at the PSP. And to me it seems like Wii was successful despite itself, because I never heard any new people say "You know, I really like this motion thing." Most people said; "Bowling is awesome!" -- Hence, games rather than hardware was the main draw.

But doesn't this actually prove that they knew what they were doing, considering they packed in Wii Sports with the hardware?
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VisariLoyalist

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#14  Edited By VisariLoyalist

they call that stuff food?!

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Pezen

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#15  Edited By Pezen

@SleepyDoughnut: Perhaps, if their only goal was to sell systems and not establish a platform for games in general. I'm not saying Nintendo is a clueless company in every regard. Obviously they're not considering how much money Wii probably earned them. However, looking at the marketplace and the evolution from Gamecube into Wii into Wii U, there is a sense that they were gunning for a new audience with the Wii, lost some people in the process and now they're trying to get them back. Basically, it feels like Nintendo doesn't really know where they're aiming this time around.

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President_Barackbar

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You bring up a lot of interesting points that I myself have thought about. Will casuals really be on board with upgrading their systems when the Wii suits them just fine? Its also a huge gamble trying to reel core fans back in with third party support, but is anyone who isn't already a huge fan of Nintendo products going to abandon the PS3/360 they already have? Its a lot of question marks at this point and it should be really interesting to see how this all plays out.