When are games going to evolve?

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fourthline

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#1  Edited By fourthline

I think the last time i saw an actual evolution in gaming in the 5 decades that I have been gaming was with PUBG. The realization of that evolution was the door mechanic. Opening and closing doors. Car doors and building doors. You could save yourself from a fight with an adept shutting of a door. This brings me to Last of Us 2. Where you can open drawers, but not shut them. You can can never open a car door unless it's part of some impending cutscene. Remember when the Division demo E3 had the simple act of shutting a door blowing people's minds. Well that was honestly the hallmark of this generation. When games dont have it or only some things are interactable it's very disappointing. When are games going to stop:

  • Funneling
  • Sign posting
  • Quicktime eventing me
  • Narrow script and dialoguing me
    • Games like GTAV online thrive because of role playing. Last of Us 2 will be the same game 10 years from now. Patch in new dialogue trees? Is the only way i can get subtlety in writing is through changing the language track?

I exit gaming every couple of years when i realize the futility and sameness of it all and through retro collections and mini-consoles I can capture what i missed. Some landmarks for games that brought me back were Tony Hawk, gamecube era Animal Crossing, Resistance, Modern Warfare, Tomb Raider (2013), and PUBG. I don't see that next game on the horizon on consoles anyway (consoles are as easy to operate as your car, with just the turn of a key, so PC games are irrelevant to me).

The PS5 June event looked like business as usual. I do a very good job of seeing, even in a trailer, what a game is doing new. Cyberpunk might have been amazing, if in 3rd person.

I knew what PUBG had from just watching a stream. Tony Hawk gave me music that i had in my collection in a game. Animal Crossing helped me reexamine what i'm doing to foster relationships in my real life. Resistance taught me never to pay for online gaming (until game with gold became a thing). Modern Warfare offered game commentary for what i was doing with progress bars and numbers going up (Im not an RPG guy so that was new to me). Tomb Raider showed me the awesomeness of cutscenes but by the end of the game i had seen enough for all games so i skipped the 3rd person assault that is playstation gaming.

PUBG showed me the infiniteness of combat encounters and the foolishness of salivating, over the course of a year, for at most 20 different maps released in 4-pack chunks with announcement, console-exclusive, and remastered trailers. PUBG has left me wanting a single player story with one map (i thought that was what Last of Us 2 was going to do in the downtown area but i guess they copy pasta'd their original ps2 vision for the rest of the game). I want missions that dynamically change with my actions the final boss doesnt have to be Manuel Noreaga every time. It should dynamically change with my actions like Shadow of Mordor. Dialogue trees should be infinite. Staff writers should be writing current and salient copy in the same way that South Park writers do. It is absolutely absurd that i am halfway done with the Last of Us 2 and their is not one nod to COVID-19. These games are not written in vacuums. If between March 15th and the day the game went gold they couldn't find a way to rewrite a mission or even tailor a collectible to the world that we live in, then what am i even gaming for. I should quit gaming and let these people get back to writing insurance claims adjustment software. I am not here for some self-important writer's opus that they wrote on a napkin while they were sitting out gym class. I'm sick of games existing in a vacuum.

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quasiconundrum

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I'm having some difficulty pinpointing what your issue is; this is kind of all over the place, honestly. It sort of sounds like you want everything and nothing at the same time. "Cyberpunk might have been amazing, if in 3rd person" is a strangely specific criticism of a game that's not even out yet. "Dialogue trees should be infinite" is a very complicated request. And why should there be a nod to COVID in TLOU2? Granted, I haven't played the game, but as I understand it, it's essentially set in an alternate reality in which COVID presumably didn't happen.

"Then what am I even gaming for?" I don't know, duder. It sounds like you're mostly just venting, but your expectations seem both lofty and vague enough that I don't feel I could venture a guess.

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mikewhy

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Some outright insulting shit in that first post, gross.

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BladeOfCreation

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I, too, wish that developers would do infinite work. How hard can it be?

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someoneproud

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I think, much like actual natural evolution, games can be said to be evolving with every release but it's happening slowly and incrementally. Games are much more complex now than they were 30 years ago and 30 years from now the same will be true. The medium is only gonna evolve based on 'consumer selection' though and most people aren't gonna buy/not buy a game based on whether you can open & close drawers or not so I wouldn't get your hopes up on that front.

Give it time duder and try to enjoy the great games we have now for what they are. Also, try not to shit on folk that like the stuff you don't, you'll be happier for it.

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fourthline

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#6  Edited By fourthline

@quasiconundrum: I do have a poor habit of vomiting on the screen with the first post. But i will focus here on what you specifically pointed out.

  • Cyberpunk
    • all of the mods and things you could do with the look of your character or even the potential flop of the dong would be a first for me in gaming. I've played a ton of 3rd person games and i will vomit those here. But none of the followng feature a character within anything resembling (and i think i nail what i mean here) what Fortnite is doing with the appearance of your character.
      • Sure Overwatch has some amazing character design but it's only visible in other characters, not me.
      • I think that's why dances are lucrative in Fortnite. Who doesnt want to see a banana man do the worm.
        • My character will only be me in cutscenes and the sick (sarcasm) charm i put on my gun.
      • If i want a cool Cyberpunk experience i can go back to Shadow Warrior
    • It's going to be a ton of quests. I've played current gen Deux Ex and i think i was more impressed with what they were doing on the 360 because they had to rely on story dialogue and writing. CD Projekt has got 2 generations of consoles to deal with. Thy seem very focused on making the game pretty which is a rendered moot point in the sense that the complete game is available on current gen, and next gen will just be lipstick on a pig.
    • They are doing driving. There's some Tropic Thunder quote that goes here. But please don't cut your teeth on an entire genre of gaming here. Driving isnt truly going to do anything other than offer me Kit from nightrider. Cutscenes are overdone in gaming as is. I'll permit you to only cutscene me during drivable segments of your game instead of you figuring out how to make a driving game. Insert your Roach was cool comment here.
  • Yes, infinite dialogue is a huge request. But you see what we are doing here. Engaging? Put your community to work. Do something different. Vet, Vet, and more Vet. But do something that couldn't have been done in Final Fantasy 1 on the NES. I've seen it done before. I don't aspire to create these games but having the same shared experience over and over is tired. This industry has always been driven by the next thing. Giant Bomb exists because of what's next with acknowledgement of what's been. I have the width and breadth of the entire medium in my 100-DVD case collecting dust under my TV? Are games just the boardgame 'Guess Who,' with a bald character and someone with glasses.
  • Let me create the next game. Bald female with red hair and a blue shirt. COVID-19. Maybe i am unaware, but if whatever they wrote for their game should not be so static, such a tome to an apocalypse, and so unaware that they can't find a way to acknowledge COVID. Too self-important to take cues from the day to day to commiserate with their players? It's writing. Should it be Origami King to speak on the moment? Someone will do it. Maybe i should look to the Division 2. It's some cheesy collectible. Take 1 out of the 50 that are in there. Let's brainstorm this together.
    • Actor 1: This is horrible
    • Actor 2: It's unbearable
    • Actor 1: But if i couldnt touch you i don't think i could bear it.
    • Actor 2: Yeah 6ft would be too much to bear.
    • Yeah, good relevant and topicable writing in your game that took 7 years to make seems unpossible (sic) to me too.
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Onemanarmyy

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#7  Edited By Onemanarmyy

Since you seem to be looking for a new kind of experience, maybe look for those that already exist but you might have passed on so far. Seems like you haven't diven into a MOBA or a crafting game like Minecraft / Terraria / Starbound yet. Give Subnautica a try. Try a JRPG. Check out the games you wanted to play in your past and are still curious about. Go play Trackmania or Dirt Rally. Go play Hacknet or Outer Wilds. Go play a tactics game. Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, Dark Souls, Civilization, MGS, Yakuza, Snake Pass, Elite Dangerous. Get into VR gaming to see what's up there. Half Life Alyx apparently is very cool to those that have played it.

Signposting won't stop, because that's how you guide a player through a game if there's a very set path. Some is more subtle than others, but if you're making a game you don't want your players to throw the controller away in frustration or have to resort to walkthroughs to figure out where the path forwards is. Or in a game like Doom Eternal, you need to be able to spot the path forwards in a split second so it's very overt in that case.

Funneling players through an elevator,cave or around a mountain might get a lot better soon though. Mark Cerny specifically brought this issue up. Up until now, all assets in a certain region had to be pulled from the HDD (or disc) to the faster memory,just in case the player would sweep the camera around to see as much assets as possible, everything in view had to be there. A narrow passage from one area to another was therefore a good opportunity for developers to chuck the old assets & textures out of memory and load in the assets for the new area. Now that games can be designed with SSD's in mind, this is no longer necessary. The speeds are high enough that the assets can be streamed into the player's field of view as they turn around. This new speed also has the added benefit that assets won't have to be duplicated tens or hundreds of times as a way to mitigate HDD-seek time.

As for story in games, there is and there will always be a prominent place for games that tell a specific story. The Last Of Us 2 was not written with Covid in mind and doesn't need to namedrop Covid to tell it's story. You also don't change the story dramatically halfway through production as everyone is working hard on their personal assignments and goals. There will also be games where the player creates their own story through gameplay, and there will be games where both the devs and the players both do a bit of the story telling as the game progresses. It seems like you don't care for games that tell a specific story, so you probably shouldn't even bother with those kind of games if they annoy you.

Quick time events, I feel like those have not been as prominent lately, but maybe i'm not playing the right kind of games for that. The logical reason why they exist is when the game wants you to participate in certain important events but the required action doesn't have a button for it because it's a very specific thing. Like ripping the teeth out of someone's mouth, or doing a karaoke song &dance. In my first example the reason for it's existance would be that the devs want you to feel like you're the one doing this gruesome deed yourself instead of watching your main character do it while you twiddle your thumbs. The second example is when the devs want you to have to use some finger dexterity to nail a song. They give you the chance to fuck it up or improve your actions through QTE's instead of just watching your character nail it every time, while you had a pee-break.

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ShaggE

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So... you want an open-world action RPG shooter with a 100% interactive world, infinite dialogue options and emergent gameplay/storytelling, third person (but also not third person), "ripped from the headlines" storytelling added at the last minute to make sure it's current (but infinite amounts of it), and nothing narrative-driven or isolated to a fictional universe without representation of the news cycle.

Do I have that right? I'm just really confused as to what you're asking for and where you think we're at, tech wise.

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fourthline

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#9  Edited By fourthline

@shagge: Games should be a time capsule. If specifically Last of Us 2 cannot it's quite sad. I expect COD 4 to consult someone in Iraq during Operation Enduring Freedom. I'd expect the developers of Eco the Dolphin to have visited an aquarium or maybe even pet a dolphin. Your story can persist but i expect a directive from the director to incorporate a, i dont know, world changing event, into a game about the last of us? Title screen, something in the credits (im not there yet), but it seemed like the only impetus for the game was the leaks and not world changing events.

The point of this whole post is justifying leaving gaming behind. Or more specifically not investing in next gen until Jeff and Brad tell me what i want, exists. This generation is just 360.5/ps3.5 with doors and hats.

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Goboard

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#10  Edited By Goboard

@fourthline: Sounds like you should play Dwarf Fortress. DF has everything your asking for and more. It gets large updates, dense with all kinds of details and only asks of the player to use a modicum of their imagination to visualize what it's systems produce. Go watch the interview NoClip did with Tarn Adams for a window into the narrative possibilities that emerge even when caused by the unconsidered interactions of those systems. On top of all that it's free.

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BladeOfCreation

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@fourthline: Have you ever tried any tabletop role-playing games? A tabletop RPG can give you that feeling of an infinite, reactive world you seem to be searching for.

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Gafgarion

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COVID-19 Presents: The Last of Us 2?

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csl316

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#13 csl316  Online

I guess I just don't feel like closing drawers would do much to increase the fun factor. Maybe reviewer's tilt?

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ghost_cat

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Here's my thoughts:
You should get into an R33 Skyline or '86 911 and barrel through Mulholland Dr.

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fourthline

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@onemanarmyy: QuickTime events have evolved from the action button. True, you can’t have a button for everything but Tomb Raider’s use of them is not a dragon I ever want to chase again. It’s like an arcade cabinet with 1 button on it. Anytime a game wrests control from the player you can literally and figuratively put the controller down. Sports games have nailed the use of the controller to do everything. Why can’t our action games? Why won’t they.

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djredbat

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It seems like you need to just take a break from games and check back in 20 years maybe games will have "evolved" enough to your satisfaction.

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Quantris

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Maybe give DOTA a try

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Topcyclist

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#18  Edited By Topcyclist

@bladeofcreation: Yeah the overpressure on devs to make 11/10 games is annoying. Reminds me of the whole last of us 2 isn't perfect so its worst every blah blah VIOLENCE BADDD is DUMB and done already....so the entire game is pure trash not worthy of time or yadda. I enjoy the days' artist could do art get constructive criticism and we showed we respected their hard work instead of throwing up all over them about how awful they are and they should be doing more while execs force them to work 100 hour weeks to keep up with demand and those same execs cut them at the end of development cause sales weren't Fortnite levels while they hop on their yacht.

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fourthline

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#19  Edited By fourthline

@topcyclist: Basic request from games:

  • Solve the Fallout tap triangle to pick up objects issues. I must have done this 5,000 times in fallout and im near 1,000 for Last of Us
  • Do something different with puzzles or dont do puzzles
    • rope mechanic and ladder mechanic in last of us is something new but the Uncharted puzzles (specifically environmental puzzles) need to just die already. Games are 30 hours as is. I'll take 25 if you get rid of the inane puzzles. With all your accessibility options removing puzzles should be one too. Unless you're going to make me use the internet for good with researching historical facts something akin to Jeopardy or wheel of fortune. What animal crossing did with real works of art is amazing that is whatn gaming needs. Until then i'd like to opt out of your parlor tricks and slight of hand crap while i avoid eye contact with the scam artist while i wait for my commuter train. I shake my head for everybody that walks up and is mesmerized, he had me too, he had me too.. Brainstorm if you can't do something that hasnt been done before.. nix it.
  • I get the sympathy for the developers. But ultimately the guy with the yacht calls all the shots. Hence my anger over no covid. And, why i point out the lack of closing drawers. I know the person working 100 hour weeks is still finding time to game. Well i hope they do. I know they have ideas. Not so sure about the Druchmans of the world. Surrounded by yes men and some feeling of auteurship that means he is right about everything needs to go the way of the dodo.
  • If a game is not worth your time and if you can elaborate i will hear you out. If you have a point of view that lines up with mine then you might save me from playing Last of Us 2. I present my point of view and accept yours. There are absolutely deal breakers for games with me. Length, number of quests, feeling like ive done this in games for the last 5 decades, online anything, and not keeping up with trends or iterating on them if you have something better ( i have zero expectations for autonomous driving in my next car, but usb port, maybe a tire pressure sensor, and backup camera are the new standard.. get with it).
  • When someone asks me about Last of US 2 IRL I will not have the enthusiasm i have for a PUBG. I'll just shake my head and say it's not worth their time. There's nothing the new Tony Hawk release can do for me. There's nothing a new call of duty will offer me in multiplayer, 200 players or not. But if I dont scrutinize, engage with my dialogue and where my head is at there's a chance that i'm going to waste my time. I'm doing this for the 1 in the 100 of you that dont come in here to defend the status quo. I'll look at hacknett and terraria because of someone's recommendations. I'll pour over the comments and look at youtube videos for the possible and impossible from this thread, so thank you. But i WILL NOT defend Last of Us 2 for its current state. Story or not.
  • My recommendations for friends is for only 9s and 10s. We've all got enough in our backlogs to not have to entertain every middling release that is just a new coat of paint. If i dont recommend (read as 9 or 10) then it might as well be a 3, for me. And yes, I am looking for 11s. I'd like to push the genre.
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Onemanarmyy

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#20  Edited By Onemanarmyy

@fourthline said:

@onemanarmyy: Sports games have nailed the use of the controller to do everything. Why can’t our action games? Why won’t they.

I'm only really familiar with Fifa, so i'll use that here. Yes, they managed to put a ton of options on that controller. But it also means that every shoulder button is pretty much it's own 'modifier' button that alters how the face buttons & the right stick works. Truly some of these tricks are like fighting game inputs. Which is a huge barrier for people to get into fighting games and probably not the right way forwards for big AAA games that need to sell to a wide audience to warrant it's production costs.

Triple Elastico – Drag right stick counter-clockwise from the bottom to the right and then clockwise from right to left

Hocus pocus – Drag right stick clockwise from the bottom to the left and then counter-clockwise from left to right

Fake pass exit right – Hold R2/RT + Square/X or Circle/B then Cross/X and flick the left stick diagonally to the top-right

Well surely that gives enormous depth to the game right? Turns out that the spin move & the step over are the two vital skill moves you really need to know and the other 48-ish ones are not all that important to compete. And when i do these moves, it doesn't always feel like i'm making the same kind of movements the player has to do to move the ball that way, so it's not all that intuitive neither.

Do we want to have actiongames that require multiple assassins creed / Kingdom hearts style sub-options on the shoulderbuttons that change what the facebuttons do? Will those games still be accessible enough to get a decent userbase when all the actions underneath the submenu's need to be remembered and probably used in real time? Are there enough toilets in the game to give pooping it's own button?

I remember that MGS games often received the criticism that the shoot button was square instead of R2, because MGS was all about scrolling through your items & weapons with the shoulder buttons. They had to let that design go for MGS4 and beyond, and it seems like now people like the controlscheme better. But i always thought the OG controlscheme with shoot on square was fine. Not all games that contain guns have the same focus on shooting guns, so not all games require 2 shoulder buttons for the whole aim & shoot thing. But it seems like the public at large disagreed with me on that.

I just finished a game named The Hex. It goes through like 8-ish different types of gameplay, all with their own presentation. 2d, sidescroller, 3d, the whole shebang. Turns out you can do a lot with 1 mouse button & WASD. That said, i would be up for 2 submenu's personally.

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Shindig

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And the thing about sports games are they're pitched at a very specific crowd. They want to do very specific things with their controls. If you can't pirouette or place a perfect through ball, it's half a game.

Third person shooters, on the other hand, don't have that kind of crowd. You can switch shoulders and that's about it in terms of control additions.

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glots

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It is absolutely absurd that i am halfway done with the Last of Us 2 and their is not one nod to COVID-19. These games are not written in vacuums. If between March 15th and the day the game went gold they couldn't find a way to rewrite a mission or even tailor a collectible to the world that we live in, then what am i even gaming for.

...you mean a reference to a thing that's currently occuring, in a world of TLOU where the world already went to shit in 2013?

Anyway, like someone suggested, maybe take a break for 20 or 30 years and then come back?

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Rejizzle

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Look, I think this topic is all over the place. Maybe you should collect your thoughts and come back with a more focused discussion. Maybe start by pinpointing what it is you want from new games, and finding the terminology that expresses it best. Maybe write a post about why some of the past "landmark titles" you mentioned affected you so deeply. For the life of me, I cannot think of Tomb Raider(2013) as anything other than a mediocre mash-up between Far Cry 3 and Uncharted, but clearly it did something for you that I missed. I would be interested to hear your perspective on that in a different forum topic.

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imhungry

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You could close doors in Counter-Strike.

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Shindig

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@glots said:
@fourthline said:

It is absolutely absurd that i am halfway done with the Last of Us 2 and their is not one nod to COVID-19. These games are not written in vacuums. If between March 15th and the day the game went gold they couldn't find a way to rewrite a mission or even tailor a collectible to the world that we live in, then what am i even gaming for.

...you mean a reference to a thing that's currently occuring, in a world of TLOU where the world already went to shit in 2013?

Anyway, like someone suggested, maybe take a break for 20 or 30 years and then come back?

Yeah, this is crazy. It's like saying Metal Gear Solid 2 needed more 9/11 references.

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Ry_Ry

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#26 Ry_Ry  Online

I'll second this.

@goboard said:

@fourthline: Sounds like you should play Dwarf Fortress. DF has everything your asking for and more. It gets large updates, dense with all kinds of details and only asks of the player to use a modicum of their imagination to visualize what it's systems produce. Go watch the interview NoClip did with Tarn Adams for a window into the narrative possibilities that emerge even when caused by the unconsidered interactions of those systems. On top of all that it's free.

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Blu3V3nom07

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#27  Edited By Blu3V3nom07

Nah, I really hope they don’t. I love these types of posts.

Sounds like The Oasis from Ready Player One game, only you’re you, playing the game. But you’re not really you you, you’re really You, Playing, the game. Like inside it mans. Lol And if you wanna say a dialogue choice, you just think it, and if you wanna do something, you just feel it. What if they had a COVID-19 Oasis event where you don’t just experience the event, but you see 100 years of what will happen in the future, and you really get to know what happens after the LOU. Lol.

Nah, all I want is some good times, and I’m good.

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inevpatoria

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#28  Edited By inevpatoria

Too Human is really the game you're looking for. A game for all seasons, that one.

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fourthline

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#29  Edited By fourthline

@shindig: I don't know the timeframe of metal gear solid 2 but yeah I would think that of all reasons to delay a game and reassess. Hell take another year. Rewrite, say something.. anything. COVID would be it. But apparently all previous delays were for salient reasons like wavy grass or the lighting effect for the next signpost just wouldn't glint. And you know all toliets didnt flush so no harm in a summer release. If Cyberpunk incorporates some COVID thing into their game then i absolutely respect that delay. Polishing up redundant turds? Just put the damn thing out. And sure there's probably some itch.io game that speaks to covid right now but other forms of media are having their reckoning but Naughty Dog developers absolutely need that addition on their guest poolhouse mother-in-law suite so release now? If someone could please find me a quote from interviews about this game and the one true question is how did COVID affect the home stretch of your game. Well Skip... it didnt. People will defend trite to the death.

The original tomb raider 1995 saw me go everywhere in a 3d space for the first time. I think Tomb Raider (2013) had me captivated by seamless transitions into quicktime events but that wore out its welcome quickly.

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ll_Exile_ll

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@shindig: I don't know the timeframe of metal gear solid 2 but yeah I would think that of all reasons to delay a game and reassess. Hell take another year. Rewrite, say something.. anything. COVID would be it. But apparently all previous delays were for salient reasons like wavy grass or the lighting effect for the next signpost just wouldn't glint. And you know all toliets didnt flush so no harm in a summer release. If Cyberpunk incorporates some COVID thing into their game then i absolutely respect that delay. Polishing up redundant turds? Just put the damn thing out. And sure there's probably some itch.io game that speaks to covid right now but other forms of media are having their reckoning but Naughty Dog developers absolutely need that addition on their guest poolhouse mother-in-law suite so release now? If someone could please find me a quote from interviews about this game and the one true question is how did COVID affect the home stretch of your game. Well Skip... it didnt. People will defend trite to the death.

The original tomb raider saw me go everywhere in a 3d space for the first time. I think Tomb Raider had me captivated by seamless transitions into quicktime events but that wore out its welcome quickly.

In your original post you lament the lack of ability to close drawers, and here you take developers to task for spending too much time on grass and lighting and flushable toilets (which don't exist in The Last of Us or hardly any other games). What exactly is it that you want? Infinite levels of minute and ultimately pointless details that are impossible to realistically achieve, or for games to ship in a reasonable amount of time, because your'e all over the place.

Also, why are you so hung up on The Last of Us including Covid references. Expecting a game like the Last of Us to reference real world public events is as ridiculous as expecting Game of Thrones to do so. The game takes place in an alternate 2037 where the civilization ended in 2013. While not as far removed as something like Game of Thrones, the setting of The Last of Us is just as a much fictional and not a representation of the real world. Having references to 2020 public events makes no sense 1. because that was 17 years before the game is set and 2. because the world was already in a post apocalypse in that world's 2020.

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Humanity

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@fourthline: Last of Us 2 started development shortly after the first game which was released in mid 2013. Given that they took a year long break (probably not even that long) the game has been in development for around 5 years or and the story is something that needs to get ironed out early on so they can start crafting the pieces required to actually represent it. So while I can understand wanting games to evolve and I agree some things need to take dramatic steps forward, you can't possibly think that the developers of this game they've been making for 5 years should suddenly "reassess" and go back to the drawing board because an important world even cropped up weeks before it's release date? How would this work? You would want them to take the incredibly bespoke and personal story and add COVID-19 to it somehow in this fictional world they've created? How much work do you think it would actually be to scrap entire areas from the game to somehow include this narrative? I mean this with no offense but that is either incredibly ignorant or very arrogant.

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fourthline

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#32  Edited By fourthline

@ll_exile_ll: It's called Easter Eggs. Back to the original post I said door closing mechanics and hats are the ONLY take ways from this generation and this game has neither. If they're going to make me open random drawers (and they are in fact random) make them all open that would be somewhat of a first as you close out the generation and usher in the next. Developers used to spend time on toilet animation and mirror reflections so clearly there delays have nothing to do with incorporating current trends (doors and drawers) just the old tropes and trends of the last generation. We get it, it's a check mark on your way to making a game and apparently that's what it takes to blow away YOUR expectations.. realistic water, honda civic approximations, and really neat ways of showing areas as impassable. 10/10 would flush.

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Rejizzle

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@fourthline: There are a few things that are going on in this thread. Firstly, you do not seem to understand the process of games development or the timescale of how long it takes to create a game with large narrative elements. If you are hoping for a quick turn around where media can comment on current events then games might just not be for you.

Second, I don't think anyone understands what you mean when you say "evolution of games" including yourself. The examples you give range from pure fantasy like infinite dialogue trees and rewriting a game months before it ships, to mundane technical details that seem like they would have no impact on the actual gameplay like being able to close drawers.

You've been making claims about how you're talking to the 1 in 100 people who won't defend the status quo, or how people trying to talk to you in good faith are defending triteness if they don't think The Last of Us 2 should talk about covid, but in reality you're just not making a whole lot of sense. I really think you should collect your thoughts, and come back to this forum with a clearer and more informed opinion of what you want the future of gaming to be.

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Dude maybe you should just play the games you like. If you don’t like a game don’t play it. If you don’t like a game that has a generally positive public review that’s fine every game is not for everyone. I don’t get the trashy ass romance novels my mom used to read but it’s not like I’m over here complaining that they are all just word Porn for ladies. You like what you like and that’s that if you don’t like something trying to force yourself too or find ways to make the thing that’s not the thing you want it to be a reality is just fruitless

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fourthline

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#35  Edited By fourthline

@humanity: how about eliminating the dumb quarters you find in the game or replace one of the superhero cards. I’m holding out hope but please don’t treat game development as something more than managing spreadsheets among art assets. If the developer can’t or won’t why do I care what they have to say with any of their themes in their games. They are out of touch. Clearly.

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Goboard

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@fourthline: Just out of curiosity but how much time, and how many people do you think it would take to include the reference to Covid-19 in TLOU2?

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@fourthline: But to what end? How does a reference to something happening now in the real world elevate the story of that game?

Like many have said maybe you just need to take a break from gaming again. What you're saying is incredibly insulting to the hard working people in game development - specifically the coders, animators and so forth that work insane hours to bring these games to life and aren't compensated nearly as well as the company heads that merely supervise these operations. I would only advise that despite your apparent frustrations you take a step back and realize how difficult it actually is to release working, well realized games.

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@fourthline: gonna echo everyone else's statements: this thread is incredibly manic, borderline contradictory, ignorant, and reductive. You may have some good points, but they're not really coming through.

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@goboard: let’s say March 16th until the game went gold on May 4th was 48 days. Not including weekends and holidays. Oh what about the inevitable day 1 patch. Between March 16th and June 19th that’s 95 days. And what I’m here for is someone to say there’s something in the credits or they had a COVID Coffeeshop. A well hidden Easter egg. I’m yet to hear anything. It should be front and center. Back of the box worthy. I really don’t care. I have to remind myself that these games don’t merit many of their accolades. But yeah plenty of time I’m looking at well modeled forgettable living room space that I’m sure was scrapped and redone time and time again for authenticity. If that took more than 45 days for the 3 seconds of underwhelming payoff where I say.. yep that’s a room with a couch..then gaming really needs to look at their processes.

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@mikewhy: I’m collecting my thoughts for my review of Last of Us 2 in the appropriate forum. These unpaid interns’ role is to help me get my thoughts together.

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@fourthline: If video game development is just "managing spreadsheets among art assets," why not simply make the game you want to play?

While I am not aware of any games that address COVID, I can name at least two songs, if you're looking for general recommendations about art that addresses current news.

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Games don’t “evolve”. That’s a dangerous misnomer that persists in the industry. People confuse “trendyness” for “evolution”. Games are trendy. Gamers are trendy.

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fourthline

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@bladeofcreation: I don’t want to sit behind a computer which is why I don’t pc game. Now doing motion capture, location scouting, or design concepts and story boarding would be right up my alley. A seen with Joel and Ellie (in what pisses me off most is there there is not background lore they have to honor).

Ellie: Joel is this the first world crisis you’ve dealt with in the ice cream truck times? Has anything so nearly devastated the world.

Joel: No, but the avian flu and swine flu had potential.

Ellie: What about a bat flu?

Joel: That sounds fun.

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fourthline

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@fluidk: elaborate. Mechanics evolve. How is it dangerous left trigger-aim right-trigger fire is the wisdom teeth of gaming. They all have it.

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#48  Edited By Rejizzle

@mikewhy: I’m collecting my thoughts for my review of Last of Us 2 in the appropriate forum. These unpaid interns’ role is to help me get my thoughts together.

So, you posted this rambling incoherent topic so that the community would talk to you and allow you to write a better review of The Last of Us 2? It's a little insulting to be thought of as unpaid interns whose sole purpose is to allow you to better gather your thoughts, especially when those thoughts seem so muddled and unsubstantiated. Maybe you can actually become part of the GB forums, and then people will volunteer to proof-read your reviews if you ask?

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#49  Edited By fourthline

If Mafia 3 with similar aforementioned timelines from world event to release does not mention black lives matter. Then it fails.

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@fourthline: “ : elaborate. Mechanics evolve. How is it dangerous left trigger-aim right-trigger fire is the wisdom teeth of gaming. They all have it.”

They certainly do not all have it. Goldeneye, for example, used the trigger to activate a radical which the player could use to specifically target parts of the screen. If I’m not mistaken, time splitters also adopted this control scheme. This slow down the pace of the game and made aiming more delivery then what was happening on the PC at the time. As such, goldeneye plays very differently than Quake despite them being contemporaries. “Which one is better” Is an irrelevant question in an arena in which we don’t only buy one game and play it forever.

When games Adopt a specific mechanic, they are trying to target the biggest number of potential customers. This does not mean that a specific teacher is BETTER. That question never even gets addressed.

When I was a kid, x-com was one of the hottest games on pc. Then Warcraft 2 came out and suddenly everyone was saying that turn based games were dead and that real time was the “evolved” form of strategy. In reality, fans can tell you that they are two entirely seperate things with little overlap. Nevertheless, it forced Xcom 3 to be Real-time and everyone hated it. It took almost 20 years before they went back and made the obvious turn-based x-com that people wanted.

The same could be said for Mortal Kombat. MK went 3D with MK 4 not because anybody wanted it, but because the pressure was there from the industry to be 3D. So MK went 3D and basically put out crap for 15 years until they went 2d again and revived the franchise.

Nothing is ever “better” than anything else in design. Everything has tradeoffs.

Most developers take whatever the most popular game is and make their game like that in order to try to capture a bit of reflected glory (and sales). That’s not evolution. It’s gold prospecting. Like when 49ers would pan and find gold and then everyone would rush to where they were and try to get some to. Most found nothing, but they would keep doing it until someone else found gold elsewhere and then they would all run over there.

Did you see how many Darksouls ripoffs, Metroidvania ripoffs and roguelikes there are in this years “e3”?