When will Giant Bomb have a VR Game of the Year category?

All I hear about VR on GB is Beatsaber, Superhot, Rez...but there are alot of games that have been released since that are, in my opinion, far superior in terms of the gameplay VR can offer. The Under Presents, Shadow Point, The Room...all stunning in alot of ways, and criminally unsung.

I hope Abby widens out a bit more than Jeff in her game choices. More and more, I wonder if GB isn't getting a bit stuck in their ways, somewhat unwilling to adopt the new medium. Very sad to hear she's leaving, especially with her burgeoning interest in VR.

Edit: After much discussion, three core arguments against: 1. Not enough good VR games to warrant discussion. 2. VR does not offer anything that "flat screen" games don't. 3. GOTY is BS anyway. While I could agree with the 3rd statement, not so with the first 2. As a defense for the second criticism, I submit: https://youtu.be/nf8Aw8s4Rw8 . Concerning the first...well, I disagree, but a thorough defense would require far more video than I'm willing/able to produce.

Edit 11/3/2020: Well, based on today's Bombcast, the answer is probably never. With Sony pulling out of the VR space hard and fast, the crew, formerly wobbly on VR at best, now seems even more disinterested. On one hand, I'm disappointed my preferred game news outlet won't be covering my favorite games, on the other it's nice that this provides space for another outlet a chance to distinguish themselves. UploadVR will be my go-to, hopefully they start churning out some entertaining VR content.

I think it'd require too much time for them to play too many games to have that category. Plus it'd be hard to have a discussion about games only one or two people on staff have played.

As an aside, I bought Shadow Point while it was on sale on Quest and I'm kind of surprised that game didn't get more love even from VR outlets. It's much better than the usual VR fare that gets all the buzz. It's easily my favorite Quest game yet.

I feel like GB orients their coverage largely on the "buzz" from their professional "friend" groups, and those groups simply do not consume much VR. I'd love to see them plug into some more VR-focused groups that could help them with an initial separation of wheat from chaff.

And yes, Shadow Point is goddamn amazing.

i think that's a reasonably fair statement- but likewise jeff was a pretty big proponent early on (probably the biggest you'll find at GB at least), and he seems pretty over it (when was the last time he talked about Alyx?)...so you're unlikely to find another evangelist on staff any time soon.

unfortunately i'm not sure i see a future where GB is on the cutting edge of VR coverage unless cultural momentum really starts to build.

Yeah, Jeff still seems like he wants to be really into VR, which is why it's frustrating that he hasn't delved into all the content that--I feel--is really advancing gameplay in the medium. Shooting guns and swinging swords is fun, but some on the mind-bending stuff in Shadow Point and The Under Presents paints an amazing picture of what's to come. I'd elaborate, but it isn't an experience I'd want to spoil.

I'm hopeful, though, Jeff did mention trying to get a VR streaming solution set up a week or so ago.

All of you are forgetting that Jeff hasn't had a proper VR setup, to actually really get in to anything. Hopefully he was able to grab that index from the office, and has a decent space for it.

I'll bet it is ...never

I'm pretty sure Giant Bomb gave up on catering to people who want "hardware specific" categories. They don't have even broad category designations like PC vs Console vs Smart device categories games.

Last year Categories:

• Day One all the games that mattered. [Super broad discussions about anything people played.]
• Day Two 2019's most important games. [Just more games they didn't talk about on day one- LOL]
• Day Three list of 2019's most notable games
• Day Four: was Best Story, Best Music, Best Style, and Cool Multiplayer Thing!
• Day Five was the same stressful discussion we saw in 2017, 2018; i.e. exhausting blue-ballz style discussions. ;-)

See no system or even board bushes of types of games. Giant Bomb has been re-making it GOTY brand broad without those Best [Insert a System Name] Game bull-dokey.

@savutano: I guess you don't consider the Quest 2 a "proper" VR setup, while I would contend it is the most "proper" setup for VR.

Jeff has said many times that putting on a headset and "disappearing" into VR just isn't something that fits his lifestyle at home.

I doubt it would happen for a number of reasons, the biggest being that most of the crew just doesn't... seem to be that interested in VR? Jeff for sure went to bat for it early, but has said that what with life stuff he can't just put on a headset and play stuff like he could a few years back. Abby seems to be getting into it, but will be gone by game of the year time. And even if both of those two had played any of the games you were talking about that would just be two people having a talk as (as far as I can tell) the rest of the cast just doesn't really touch VR stuff for better or worse.

There's no shortage of places that will talk VR if you look, but yeah, at this point hoping the crew devotes an entire category to it during GOTY is, well, keep living that pipe dream I suppose.

@monkeyking1969: @johncallahan: Obviously a poor choice on my part to marry my intent to a GOTY category. All-in-all, I feel there is some amazing stuff happening in VR that is being overlooked by the majority of the games press, and I'd love GB to break that trend.

Jeff seems like the only one who ever had more than a passing interest, and I imagine that having a baby is not very conducive to putting on a VR headset for hours at a time.

To me, having a VR-only category is a tacit admission that VR has yet to mature enough to be worth having it's own category. Going off of what my sense of the crew's opinion of VR is, for a VR game to be good enough to be worth mentioning during GOTY, it should be good enough to stand toe to toe with traditional video games in regular categories, and not have its own special category where its quarantined off from competition.

I can agree with this, but I feel there are VR games that stand toe-to-toe with console games, they simply aren't being played by anyone at GB.

It's not surprising as said games are usually also overlooked in the VR community too. I like VR but I kind of agreed with Jeff when he was talking about being disappointed that Pistol Whip basically was being treated as the second coming by the VR gaming community years after VR has launched. Even larger games like Asgard's Wrath kind of came and went within the community (well, partly because it was Oculus exclusive but still, it was a full game at least).

When there's enough VR games that a Top 3 doesn't constitute the only three good games for the year.

As a VR outsider looking in... this seems to be the major problem.

Even years into the technology, there don't seem to be many "meaty" games out there. Everything seems to be a gimmick, "look at this cool toy" type of game and there doesn't seem to be much that comes across as a full-featured game. Half-Life: Alyx seems to be VR's Mario 64, in that most people seem to agree it controls really well and sets a good template for how to make linear VR shooters, but that's one game and the industry needs to catch up.

VR's also still in a really weird spot where they need lots of money to make a good game but the market share just isn't there yet to justify it. I think it'll get there, but I also think it will be a while, and I don't think that VR is going to become the primary way to play games. If you want good end-of-the-year VR coverage, you're probably going to have to look elsewhere.

@hyp3rba11: @justin258: I think both on your comments are very much representative of where the "head space" is for gamers and VR, and it just isn't true anymore. While "meaty" games are not a commonality on VR devices, they are there, and in great enough volume to warrant attention. My favorite games in VR are all 12 - 20 hour experiences, for a price of 20-30 bucks. Certainly not the crazy value of steam sale content, but entirely fair.

VR is too inconsistent and feels like a hobby. Actually it feels like Rock Band. Here is this incomberred piece of technology that takes me a few minutes to set up, especially if others are involved, and no matter how enjoyable of a time I have it's not a viable replacement for sitting on my couch with a controller.

And really the winner is any Linkin Park song I've modded into Beat Saber.

What are they, though? I'm not particularly into VR right now, so it seems like this stuff has just flown under my radar - but I look at stuff surrounding video games a lot and I just haven't heard of anything beyond Half-Life Alyx, Boneworks, and, I dunno, Beat Saber. Otherwise, what I've seen looks like gimmicks or arenas where you sling medieval weapons around.

I'm not counting stuff like Fallout VR and Subnautica VR - taking an existing game and bolting VR on to it isn't what the platform needs.

@justin258:

Well, I'll only speak to what I've played and completed full playthroughs on:

The Under Presents

Shadow Point

Lies Beneath

Red Mars

Journey of the Gods

Others would have more, but these are the stand-outs that I've played personally. Many others are enjoyable, but these I would put into contention of being "best".

All right, I've never heard of any of these.

Still, I do have some knee-jerk criticisms - three of these trailers (The Under Presents, Shadow Point, and Red Mars) look like first person "walking simulators"/puzzle games. I do not mean that derisively, but I would never spend hundreds of dollars on a VR setup to play a first person puzzle game. I don't have any real idea what The Under Presents and Shadow Point reallyare, actually, which makes them an even harder sell. I'd probably be interested in Red Mars if it wasn't in VR, and I didn't really see anything that required VR.

I've got a pretty good idea of what Lies Beneath and Journey of the Gods are, though. The latter appears to be an attempt to do Zelda in first person, although if I'm being frank it looks clunky in the way that a lot of those medieval VR arenas look clunky, which is to say "the kind of thing that makes me avoid VR". Lies Beneath is the most interesting of the bunch - catching knives and throwing them back into enemies and shooting stuff while moving in VR looks like a lot of fun, plus it looks like it has a horror element that isn't trying to rip off Amnesia. I'm not buying VR for a single game, but I'd look into that game some more if I had a VR headset.

Still, I'm not sure what any of these games are doing that couldn't really be done with a keyboard and mouse or controller and I think that's what they should really be selling. Half-Life Alyx did that by showing players reloading guns, moving aside junk to reach a shotgun shell or grenade in a frantic firefight, and doing some other stuff that I don't remember off the top of my head. From the outside looking in, Alyx does and always has looked like something that cannot simply be translated to a more traditional monitor and KBM/TV and controller setup. These game trailers... don't.

Normally I wouldn't post something so critical of some trailers that somebody else enjoyed, but I'm trying to communicate why stuff like this doesn't sell me, personally, on VR, and I don't think I'm alone in this. These games you've posted definitely don't look like gimmicks and I'm sure they do some significant things with their VR control setup - but very little of that really comes across in the trailers to me (except Lies Beneath). You might say that I don't seem like the target audience, but VR is never going to take off in the way that it needs to if developers and marketing aren't concerned with figured out how to sell to people who are indifferent towards VR.

@justin258:

Well, barring your purchasing a VR headset and playing these games yourself, you'll just have to trust me: these games are absolutely doing things that are not possible with a mouse and keyboard. Also, I love puzzle games, hence the preponderance.

It really sucks--the early days of VR seems like it soured a lot of people on the medium, and only within the last year do I feel it has really justified its existence. I'm optimistic, however, Nintendo managed to shine through despite the cruft and trash Atari hoisted on people.

More GOTY?

I'm starting to hope for less to be honest. The arbitrary nature of the awards and passioned discussions which boarder or outright turn into arguments between the team makes me feel they cause more harm than good.

The only time I've ever seen Vinny mad is while defending Dan during the discussions regarding RDR2. It was uncomfortable. The same could be said for many other aspects of such discussions. Listening to arbitrary denouncements of games winning due to portrayals of certain characters while the fact that you're playing a mass murderer in other games doesn't sit well with me either.

Then there's the marketing aspect. Which is what this all comes down to in the eyes of developers/publishers. Who gets to print the tag on the back of their box?

While I'd be happy to see GB cover more VR games I'm not so sure I'd ever want to see such in the form of a GOTY discussion.

Further: I honestly don't feel there are all that many compelling VR games out there when compared to flat screen experiences.

"More and more, I wonder if GB isn't getting a bit stuck in their ways, somewhat unwilling to adopt the new medium." - Surely you don't ask the same question in regards to mobile games? (Which are orders of magnitude more mainstream than VR currently is).

@ak1mbo: I’m with you 100%. It bums me out how Giant Bomb started as a solid authority on VR games and content, but that’s just not what they are at this point. Jeff is too focused on what VR isn’t to be very open on what it IS, and most of the rest outside of Abby just seem to go along with Jeff’s apathy, or just don’t care about it in general.

I just don’t see them being in any way informed enough on VR or how it has evolved to come up with any award that would hold any water.

The problem is not a lack of games as much as it's a lack of people to talk about them. Apart from Jeff no one really has a VR helmet. I Think Brad has the PS VR but thats it as far as I know. At this point in time a VR category would be Jeff talking about games he played by himself. They would need at least 3 people to have the gear and be playing games regularly to have a category make any sense.

They mentioned a new studio space being a bit larger after the move. I hope there is room for some v.r. coverage once sharing an office and equipment becomes possible again. The VRodeos always have me some joy and good insight into the v.r. experience.

@ak1mbo: I have a WMR headset that's roughly on par with the PSVR, which is to say very much entry level. I've had it for about two years now. It's fine. It's novel. But it's niche. Even with outlets that have championed the platform, like GiantBomb of course, you're only getting bits of coverage here and there. That's not an indictment against VR, it's just in a protracted embryonic state. In the context of this thread, my impression is there's not enough interest in a longform GOTY discourse, either from the staff or audience.

I mean... that game is just Half Life: Alyx isn't it?
Then if there isn't anything similarly epic the next year it'll just be some super ping pong game or something.

There might be a time when the quantity of "substantial" VR games increases, but we aren't there yet.

@justin258:

I made a video demonstrating some of what I consider to be game mechanics entirely unique to VR:

https://youtu.be/nf8Aw8s4Rw8

If the game experience demonstrated here (rather poorly, as I suck at throwing) really doesn't seem engaging/interesting, then I would have to say VR may not offer much to you. Personally, I found it deeply enjoyable.

"Jeff presents the best Res Infinite Level of the Year"

My question is, what's the gameplay here? All I saw you do was pick up, look at, and toss objects. It's cool that something like this exists, but I'm still not sure this is what VR needs when I could pick up and manipulate things as far back as Deus Ex, even earlier if my memories of Half-Life are correct, and you could do so in a pretty realistic way in Half-Life 2. If I had the opportunity to mess with a VR headset, I'd probably think the above is pretty cool... but not necessarily in a way that I'm willing to spend hundreds of dollars on.

Which means VR isn't for me, I suppose, and that's OK. I've seen Half-Life Alyx and Star Wars Squadrons played in VR and both of those look great, if we can get way more stuff on that level I might get into it. (I am aware that Squadrons is also playable with a traditional setup and that's in direct contrast to what I said above). I just need something with more mechanical and gameplay depth.

In 2 to 15 years when VR becomes a successful platform with consistently quality games.

@justin258: Sorry, didn't capture audio to explain. The goal is to cast a shadow fitting the outline indicated in the picture frame. To do so, I needed to first get the wheel from the right area to the left by throwing it through the portal in the large gear. After the wheel is placed, the gear can be turned. Next, the light needed to get to the other room, but it also needed its gravity oriented so that the far wall was its "floor", allowing the shadow to line up properly. By turning the gear so that the portal is lined horizontally, throwing the lantern through causes it to take on the needed gravity. The lantern is then hung from the hook and casts the correct shadow. Lastly, the music box needs to be retrieved from the ceiling of the right room, transferred via portal to the left room, then held in front of the lantern so that the shadow is cast.

@finaldasa: Sitting on my couch with a controller is exactly how I play my vr, well mostly.

I get that it's not as immersive, but for me it's a great way to play and I really wish more devs would add controller support, on psvr there is sadly only a small handful of decent games that you can play like this.

@sarcasticmudcrab: I play 100% sitting, except for BeatSaber. Devs are slowing realizing that people just don't want to stand for extended periods of time, happily. Many games have implemented "snap-on" hands, where "carry-able" objects will snap to to your hands, and your hands will snap to immovable objects like levers, buttons, etc. I recently picked up "The Under Presents" on Quest just because of that mechanic being implemented.