When will Super Smash Bros-like games stop being called rip-offs?

Yes, this is in response to Sony's new game. I don't get it. There are lots of games that take after past games but people don't call them rip-offs. Why is it that games that are similar to Smash Bros the only ones that are called rip-offs or clones?

How come no one says that Doom, Halo and CoD are rip-offs of past FPS games?

How come no one says that God of War is a rip-off of Rygar?

And etc, etc, etc.

I hate the term, but how isn't this one a "rip off?" Its the exact same thing down to the UI

@manicraider said:

How come no one says that God of War is a rip-off of Rygar?

I know one person who has. @Icemael, I think. As for the others, people just become exhausted and move such complaints to a more local temporal point.

They'll never stopped being called rip-offs. That is, unless you kill everyone who calls them rip-offs.

@manicraider: Some people would say Smash bros is a rip off of Poy Poy or poy poy 2 which were made by Konami for the original playstation...

@Video_Game_King said:

@manicraider said:

How come no one says that God of War is a rip-off of Rygar?

I know one person who has. @Icemael, I think. As for the others, people just become exhausted and move such complaints to a more local temporal point.

Yeah but every time I've seen that guy he gives off a vibe that he doesn't like anything.

@SethPhotopoulos:

Every time I've seen him, he's kicked my ass in a debate. (Also, he's a pretty big fan of shmups and maybe Persona 4.)

How long did it take for FPS games to stop being called Doom-clones?

Also, who are these imaginary people who are saying this? So far I've seen two people complain about it being called a rip-off, and no one actually say it. "It' being the new Sony game.

@manicraider said:

Yes, this is in response to Sony's new game. I don't get it. There are lots of games that take after past games but people don't call them rip-offs. Why is it that games that are similar to Smash Bros the only ones that are called rip-offs or clones?

How come no one says that Doom, Halo and CoD are rip-offs of past FPS games?

Doom, Halo, and Call of Duty all do things that distinguish themselves in the FPS genre. Sony's hilariously titled Smash Bros. clone, however, is just that; a clone. It looks like Smash Bros., plays like Smash Bros., and features a crossover cast, like Smash Bros. It's about as lazy as Sony could be in making a crossover game of their own. It's right up there with EA's Dante's Inferno, which was little more than a shameless aping of God of War's gameplay and vengeful tone.

Never.

The only thing that I personally find offense about someone copying another game is when they won't even acknowledge where their inspiration came from, pretending like they came up with the idea. You see that shit all the time during interviews with developers.

Also, the thing about Smash Bros. is that it's really unique with a style and gameplay that is very specific to that series, and even on the rare occasion when a developer has tried to copy it, they failed and the game was forgotten. So I guess the fact that Smash Bros. is largely an entirely unique series makes it super obvious when someone tries to copy it as directly as Sony seems to be.

Those games probably weren't called ripoffs because they were well received and redefined the genre. Doom is pretty self explanatory. Halo was pretty much started the console FPS market, Call of Duty popularized kill streaks, etc, etc.

Basically, until this game comes out, it probably won't stop. Is it fair? Not really. For all we know from a couple seconds of gameplay, it could have some groundbreaking new mechanic. But in the end, it's a party fighting game with the top mascots of one company, versus a party fighting game with the top mascots of another.

When they stop ripping of Super Smash Bros.

@Hailinel said:

@manicraider said:

Yes, this is in response to Sony's new game. I don't get it. There are lots of games that take after past games but people don't call them rip-offs. Why is it that games that are similar to Smash Bros the only ones that are called rip-offs or clones?

How come no one says that Doom, Halo and CoD are rip-offs of past FPS games?

Doom, Halo, and Call of Duty all do things that distinguish themselves in the FPS genre. Sony's hilariously titled Smash Bros. clone, however, is just that; a clone. It looks like Smash Bros., plays like Smash Bros., and features a crossover cast, like Smash Bros. It's about as lazy as Sony could be in making a crossover game of their own. It's right up there with EA's Dante's Inferno, which was little more than a shameless aping of God of War's gameplay and vengeful tone.

Nah man, Doom and Halo are like, exactly the same games. They both play like each other (you shoot aliens), Halo has aliens (just like Doom). Bungie was just too lazy and made a game with aliens and shooting.

Stupid rip off!

Well, FPS games have different settings, concepts, and implement at least one unique mechanic, most of the time. The market is so flooded with them, we don't call them "rip-offs," rather, we just say that the market for the genre is crowded and unoriginal. Super Smash Bros. Is a fighting game with a cast of characters from all of Nintendo's classic franchises. It's not like Street Fighter or any other fighting game, in that it's based on four player knock-out combat (as opposed to a game where you try and deplete your opponent's stamina), in arenas full of crazy obstacles and items. Very few games can be compared to Smash Bros. Sony's new game is a fighting game with a cast of characters from all of Sony's classic franchises. It's based on four player knock-out combat ( as opposed to a game where you try and deplete your opponent's stamina ), in arenas full of crazy obstacles and items. Somebody in this thread mentioned an old Konami game, which lacks the mash-up, but must have the combat. That makes a total of three franchises, one of which has three extremely popular iterations (Smash Brothers). If you don't think that Sony is taking a page out of Nintendo's book on this one, you're loco.

It's funny that you say the only games that are called rip-offs are games like Smash Bros. This is, to my knowledge, the first time this has ever happened.

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

@Video_Game_King said:

@SethPhotopoulos:

Every time I've seen him, he's kicked my ass in a debate. (Also, he's a pretty big fan of shmups and maybe Persona 4.)

I never got in a debate with him. That I can remember.

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

The game was announced earlier this week, not enough time for anything to die down.

Could you give another example of a game being called a Smash Bros. rip-off?

@Hailinel said:

@manicraider said:

Yes, this is in response to Sony's new game. I don't get it. There are lots of games that take after past games but people don't call them rip-offs. Why is it that games that are similar to Smash Bros the only ones that are called rip-offs or clones?

How come no one says that Doom, Halo and CoD are rip-offs of past FPS games?

Doom, Halo, and Call of Duty all do things that distinguish themselves in the FPS genre. Sony's hilariously titled Smash Bros. clone, however, is just that; a clone. It looks like Smash Bros., plays like Smash Bros., and features a crossover cast, like Smash Bros. It's about as lazy as Sony could be in making a crossover game of their own. It's right up there with EA's Dante's Inferno, which was little more than a shameless aping of God of War's gameplay and vengeful tone.

Hopefully it's an entertaining rip-off.

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

TMNT Smash-Up and Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.

*looks at the names of the journalists who have played it*

*looks at the names of the people complaining about it*

*fails to see a strong, positive correlation between the two*

I mean, sure, if you want to be shitty and reductive, then do that. But nothing about this game seems like it is anywhere near final, from the features to the UI. Nobody is going to outright deny the similarities between the SSB series (except Kevin Butler), but that doesn't mean they are going to rip it off. This would be a fantastic time for the internet to stop being itself and think before they condemn an unfinished game that they haven't played.

When they stop ripping off super smash brothers.

When there are more than a handful of them and they start to show more originality.

@manicraider:

...when they stop ripping off that franchise?

When will people who don't get their satisfaction in one thread stop making others where they passive aggressively complain about the thing they aren't satisfied with? That's what I want to know.

@manicraider said:

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

TMNT Smash-Up and Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.

TMNT Smash-Up was developed by Game Arts, one of the studios that produced Brawl. Ubisoft basically paid them to make a Smash Bros. game with the TMNT characters (and some rabbids). It was literally, "Hey guys, we'll give you money to make a game like that with these characters."

Hahaha when will it stop? Seriously? This is the first time any game has ever been considered a ripoff of super smash bros, and for good reason. It IS! Shocking! I don't care. But I call a square a square.

This thread made part of me die inside.

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

I think the better question is: Why are you taking it so personally?

When they stop being rip-offs.

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

TMNT Smash-Up and Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.

@Hailinel said:

@manicraider said:

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

TMNT Smash-Up and Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.

TMNT Smash-Up was developed by Game Arts, one of the studios that produced Brawl. Ubisoft basically paid them to make a Smash Bros. game with the TMNT characters (and some rabbids). It was literally, "Hey guys, we'll give you money to make a game like that with these characters."

This was the point I was going to make when TMNT SMASH-Up was mentioned.

Fighting games franchises like King of Fighters and Marvel vs. Capcom are still often referred to as Street Fighter-based games because they use the dragon-punch and quarter-circle inputs pretty often. And people call things Call of Duty and Gears of War clones all the time. Basically, calm down, OP. It happens all the time, it's just the internet being the internet.

@ChrisTobin said:

@manicraider said:

@manicraider said:

@PeasantAbuse said:

Once they stop ripping off Smash Bros.

Well... yeah. But my point was that everyone does it so why is it only this genre that gets the most heat? Whenever another game gets called a rip-off the heat usually dies down after awhile. But anything resembling a Smash game is forever labeled a rip-off.

TMNT Smash-Up and Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion.

Correct me if I'm wrong (this is a total snap judgement based only on names and images from the GB wiki), but both those games seem like shovelware that would be ridiculed no matter what game they played like. The fact that they play like Smash Bros. is purely incidental.

Neither game reviewed particularly well. As a basis for comparison, Metacritic has the Wii version of Smash-Up rated with a 67, while Punch Time Explosion on the 3DS has a 59. I personally have no experience with Punch Time Explosion, but I did play some Smash-Up at PAX a couple of years ago, and it...wasn't good. See my previous post for the primary culprit as to why, but the game was just uninspired in every way; the only thing that really distinguished it from Smash Bros. was the use of health gauges instead of percentage meters and ring-outs.

Dude, it looks EXACTLY LIKE SMASH BROS. You can't defend it being a straight rip-off. This is coming from a Sony fan.

SSB was truly unique at the time and no one has been able to even come close to matching that. All so-called "rip-offs" have not even come close to what the SSB series has brought. If this Sony game is on the level, then we can call it at least a good rip-off and possibly an evolution in the genre. Basically, no one has come close yet, that's why its still considered a rip-off.

I find it as a rip off, but that is not a bad thing, to be honest, the game looks fun, and I wouldn't mind picking it up.

Because this particular kind of crossover game isn't exactly all that common. Early FPS games used to be Doom-clones, sandbox games were GTA clones, etc. Still, Sony's game here does look pretty damn similar to Smash Bros in a lot of ways.

If PlayStation All-Stars blah blah blah is a great game and adds some unique features to the game, then soon. If it's only okay or shit, not for a long time.

Rip off is completely warranted in this case. They didn't even try to do something original, instead just took everything from SSB and applied Sony stuff.

What I don't understand is why is everyone acting like a rip-off of SSB is a bad thing? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?!

@Enigma777 said:

What I don't understand is why is everyone acting like a rip-off of SSB is a bad thing? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?!

I'd rather see Sony do something original, or at the very least, produce something that isn't such a blatant rip-off.

@Hailinel said:

@Enigma777 said:

What I don't understand is why is everyone acting like a rip-off of SSB is a bad thing? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?!

I'd rather see Sony do something original, or at the very least, produce something that isn't such a blatant rip-off.

So you'd rather stifle innovation in a genre and kill competition just so you could get something as esoteric as originality? Wow...

And please, the entire fucking game industry is founded on "blatant rip-offs." That's not a good excuse. All that matters is whether they improve upon the original, and if All Stars Whatever means that I can get a SSB-like game with functional online, then I'm all for it. Just like how Darksiders gave me a dark Zelda cause we all know Nintendo would never do it.

I feel like they'll stop being called rip offs when they stop being thinly veiled.

@Enigma777 said:

@Hailinel said:

@Enigma777 said:

What I don't understand is why is everyone acting like a rip-off of SSB is a bad thing? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?!

I'd rather see Sony do something original, or at the very least, produce something that isn't such a blatant rip-off.

So you'd rather stifle innovation in a genre and kill competition just so you could get something as esoteric as originality? Wow...

And please, the entire fucking game industry is founded on "blatant rip-offs." That's not a good excuse. All that matters is whether they improve upon the original, and if All Stars Whatever means that I can get a SSB-like game with functional online, then I'm all for it. Just like how Darksiders gave me a dark Zelda cause we all know Nintendo would never do it.

What innovation is Sony bringing to this formula, pray tell?

No, really. Enlighten me. How is this game nothing more than a blatant rip-off with nothing truly innovative to offer? Further, why is it bad to ask for something new and different, rather than something that is merely a copy of something else?

@Hailinel said:

@Enigma777 said:

@Hailinel said:

@Enigma777 said:

What I don't understand is why is everyone acting like a rip-off of SSB is a bad thing? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?!

I'd rather see Sony do something original, or at the very least, produce something that isn't such a blatant rip-off.

So you'd rather stifle innovation in a genre and kill competition just so you could get something as esoteric as originality? Wow...

And please, the entire fucking game industry is founded on "blatant rip-offs." That's not a good excuse. All that matters is whether they improve upon the original, and if All Stars Whatever means that I can get a SSB-like game with functional online, then I'm all for it. Just like how Darksiders gave me a dark Zelda cause we all know Nintendo would never do it.

What innovation is Sony bringing to this formula, pray tell?

No, really. Enlighten me. How is this game nothing more than a blatant rip-off with nothing truly innovative to offer? Further, why is it bad to ask for something new and different, rather than something that is merely a copy of something else?

We won't really know until the game's out, but from the slim details we have now: combos, a myriad of online modes, the AP system, the stage stuff (answering trivia mid-match, stage being built as the match goes on, etc). I'm sure there will be more as more details become available.

As far as originality, I agree that in general it's better to ask for something new and different, but this is an exception for 2 key reasons:

1. It's in a severely depopulated genre that could use any new games. As a casual fighting game fan, I hate the more technical games like SF and even MK, so I readily welcome any new blood in. This isn't a modern military FPS where you can get your pick. This is a genre that has had less than 10 games in it in the last 2 decades!

2. It's scratching an itch the other games in the genre don't offer (like Jump Superstars and SSB). Things like online play, Sony characters, a system that doesn't have any games of that genre and so forth.

@BoG said:

The game was announced earlier this week, not enough time for anything to die down.

Could you give another example of a game being called a Smash Bros. rip-off?

There was an early XBLA involving cats that was obviously designed as a straight up clone, but I can't remember the name. Although it focused more on each character using guns, so it at least felt a little different to play.

I completely agree though. First Person Shooters tend to distinguish themselves by having different styles and often gameplay mechanics, even Halo and Call of Duty are very different games from one another. Saints Row managed to escape the "GTA clone" title, also by distinguishing itself as something very different. This on the other hand has been developed by Sony, because some executive said "hey, let's make our OWN Smash Brothers!". There doesn't seem to be anything original or inventive about it, they've literally made the same game and plopped different characters into it, because that's what they wanted to do.

The aim was just to make another Smash Brothers, and that's pretty sad..

@BoG said:

It's funny that you say the only games that are called rip-offs are games like Smash Bros. This is, to my knowledge, the first time this has ever happened.

Marvel Super Hero Squad

http://ds.ign.com/articles/103/1037329p1.html

"The star of the show is battle mode, which is basically a Marvel-themed Smash Bros. rip-off"

.

.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash-Up

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/12040/reviews/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-smash-up-review/

"It's Smash Bros. with a shorter lifespan and less interesting characters, but still fun nonetheless."

.

.

Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion

http://www.gamesradar.com/cartoon-network-punch-time-explosion-xl-review/

"It's like Super Smash Bros. for people who hate themselves"

.

.

Rag Doll Fu: Fists of Plastic

http://www.3djuegos.com/juegos/analisis/4399/1/rag-doll-kung-fu-fists-of-plastic/

"Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fist Of Plastic se perfila como el candidato de PS3 a fin de rellenar el vacío de los Super Party Fighting, y pese a no llegar a la complejidad del referente, Super Smash Bros. Brawl de Wii, su ajustado precio lo hace aún más atractivo."

.

.

Small Arms

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/154088/reviews/small-arms-review/

"Small Arms is pretty blatant about copying the gameplay of Nintendo's "Smash Bros," but it's exactly the kind of frantic action suited for online play."

.

.

Digimon Rumble Arena 2

http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/880/Digimon-Rumble-Arena-2/p2/

"Sadly the game does feel a bit too much like Nintendo’s smash hit which definitely hurts the originality of the title."

.

.

Viewtiful Joe: Red Hot Rumble

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/r_viewtifuljoerhr_gc

"Stupor Smash Bros."

.

.

Some of the people who are upset that Sony is making this game should give this a read:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyCopiedItSoItSucks

"The error here is the automatic assumption that just because something is similar, it can't have any value on its own merits. If everything that was derivative was that bad, it wouldn't be done so much. Some can actually be quite good on their own. And enough followers can even make From Clones to Genre."

Every first person shooter ever made is just a ripoff of Wolfenstein.