Which of these games do you more strongly associate with the term "puzzle game"?

If by gut reaction, I can say Tetris because I recognize the name more than Portal. Both act as puzzle games for sure though.

My gut reaction is Tetris, but I think Portal is closer to what I actually think of as a "puzzle game", ie a game where you actually solve puzzles, rather than just matching shapes. But they're probably equally valid.

I'm leaning towards Portal I think, if only because I struggle to even place Tetris into a genre. Tetris doesn't really seem to fit into a genre to me; it's just Tetris itself.

When I think 'default Puzzle games' I think I'm thinking of stuff like Bejeweled.

Both? It's two different definitions of puzzle game. It's like asking someone whether the word "train" is more about railroads or more about physical workouts.

We are gravitating more toward the term "falling block" games though. Which is more accurate, since games are Tetris are more like action games. Most of the thinking is done on your feet if you could be said to be thinking at all.

Well, the classic mode of Bejeweled is not too dissimilar to Tetris.

I suppose the real difference is based on design: the levels in Portal were all hand-crafted by someone; In Bejeweled and Tetris, the challenges you face are based on randomness.

Nah. A closer analogy is asking what people think when they hear the term 'metal music' - KISS or Cannibal Corpse.

I think Tetris is more of a traditional "puzzle game" where the gameplay is reminiscent of a traditional puzzle you would put together at a coffee table. Portal I find is more of a brainteaser kind of thing. It can be confusing and a player can find themselves spending a lot of time trying to figure out a solution. I don't think puzzle games like Tetris try to confuse a player. It's more about the act of playing and not actively trying to solve something like in Portal.

If I had to pick a gut reaction it would probably be portal. Maybe that's just because of my age though. I never spent too much time playing puzzle games like Tetris.

@jjbsterling: I guess you could consider it the difference between a jigsaw puzzle vs a logic puzzle. One is just identifying shapes that fit together while the latter requires logic and reason to come to a solution.

I feel the complete opposite, in my mind, Tetris seems very untraditional; something that can only properly exist in a virtual environment. I mean, perhaps it's physically possible to set up a specific environment where you have the ability to drop blocks at an arbitrary distance at specific time intervals...

Consider something like Picross though (which fits in the same hand-crafted camp as Portal), you could easily print out a Picross puzzle and fill it out manually.

I chose Portal. First words i associate with Tetris are ' Blocks' 'Classic' ' Arcade' ' Pong' 'Pacman'

Tetris is an action game. Portal requires you to think and puzzle things out, so it's a puzzle game.

Tetris is the first thing that comes to mind so I picked that, but Portal really does fit the definition better.

It's probably a lot easier to say that Tetris is a classic, block-based puzzle game and Portal is one of those newfangled first person puzzle games that all the young'uns are playing these days. It's kind of like the difference between power metal and black metal - both metal, but so vastly different that if someone didn't tell you they came from the same source, you'd never know it.

Yeah, I was thinking of using Sokoban as an example - but I thought I should go for the most well-known examples...

Portal. I never really thought about it before, but stuff like Tetris and Super Puzzle Fighter don't really strike me as puzzle games. There are no solutions. There are tactics and tricks to going on and on, but that's it. You just fit stuff together to make them disappear until you can't anymore.

I mean Tetris has actual puzzle pieces but Portal I have to think about stuff.

I barely think of Tetris as a puzzle game at all. It's a score attack game with a cool mechanic by which you continue to gain score. There are no "puzzles" with a "solution".

Basically what this guy said.

But the argument is that they fit together like puzzle pieces... @egg summed it up, it's two different words, but in terms of the video game genre, Puzzle=enigma is the "puzzle" that is being used.

Portal is an adventure game like Myst or Monkey Island.

@drbroel: Portal 2 maybe. (But I'd still argue that's more just adventure elements.) Portal 1 is just a series of rooms with puzzles. There's no "adventure" there.

@zeik: Myst or Myst-like games (there were dozens of clones in the mid 90s) can just be exploring a series room with puzzles in them. That easily describes The 7th Guest or The 11th Hour which both take place in a house where each room has its own puzzle that must be solved.

Adventure in this context means solving puzzle and exploring environments. Early adventure games were just text, like Zork.

Portal is a puzzle game. Tetris is an arcade game. That's how I feel at least. Tetris is only something you "solve" initially but eventually turns into more of a test of dexterity and concentration.

Where's the option for God of War? Those had puzzles in them! :(

Portal is a puzzle game, Tetris is Tetris

this has probably been stated above- but i lean towards portal, if only because

-you do well at portal by 'solving' or creating solutions to problems

-in tetris you also do well by 'solving' (creating lines) or creating solutions- but the problems are somewhat dynamic, and often times a function of your own misstep. you certainly 'puzzle' the pieces together- but i'd probably sooner call tetris a stacking game.

at a certain point the terminology isn't useful though.

I think this guy has pretty much solved it.

Ooo I just made it 50-50. Portal easily.

Tetris can be played on pure instinct and ends up becoming more about dexterity than anything. Portal is pure 'how do I do this?' from the very start.

Odd thread btw.

Tetris absolutely.

I always think of puzzle games being more abstract in nature, where the puzzle itself is front of you the player. Perhaps things like Tetrsi, Lumines, Meteos etc deserve their own classification to denote the skill based dynamic stacking involved, but those kinds of games as far as I know have always been lumped into the traditional puzzle game category. That's probably wrong, but I do think they are more similar to something like Picross or Sudoku than say Portal is.

Portal is essentially a 1st person action game about puzzle solving imo.

I always thought of Tetris as a genre myself.

Tetris is like an arcade style puzzle game.

I mean they're dramatically different kinds of games, but Tetris strikes me as the quintessential traditional puzzle game, whereas Portal is kind of an evolution of adventure game puzzles. Or action adventure game puzzles. I mean I'm fine with calling Portal also a puzzle game, but at that point I'd be pretty close to calling the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time a puzzle game as well.

Sure Portal and such bring the puzzle solving elements more up front and are more interesting than most, but you could also call raids in FFXIV puzzle games, except multiplayer. I think that it's easier to call Tetris a puzzle game because it's hard to define it otherwise, not to mention completely different kinds of puzzle games like Dr. Mario where the actual gameplay is quite a bit different but still shares some kind of connexion. I guess in the end, pretty much every non-competitive game is some kind of a puzzle that eventually you're going to find the solution to and solve, Portal it's more up front about being a puzzle game, Tetris it's easy to call a puzzle game as you use puzzle pieces in it. The solution to Tetris? Certainly mastery of it. If you can infinitely solve Tetris forever, bam you've found the solution. Which is pretty much like every game, only most don't take as much time and effort as Tetris (especially TGM).

I would disagree, it's very useful to have clear terminology. One benefit about genres and genre names, is that games can be discussed and compared easily without confusion.

If I say "I love puzzle games" and the phrase 'puzzle game' means multiple things, then there's a breakdown in communication; I've tried to communicate something to you, but it's likely that you've misunderstood.

@beachthunder: The problem is that video game genres are so much harder to define than they used to be. They all encompass tons of different games and you basically have to define games down to a ridiculous amount of specificity to actual have a useful descriptor of what a game is.

I could say I love RPGs, but what does that even mean nowawadays? I could narrow that down to JRPGs and that still encompasses a huge amount of different kinds of games. I could boil it down further to turn-based JRPGs and that is still a huge variety of different games.

It's almost impossible to actually describe video game genres to somehow who doesn't already understand what you're talking about.

I voted Tetris, but you guys make really good arguments for Portal.

Of course, genres are a weird thing. Why isn't every game where you play as a character an RPG, even though you are playing a role? Why is Tetris accepted to be a puzzle game even though you can't actually "solve" the "puzzle"? Who actually plays party games at parties? If I were to throw a Hail To The Chimp party, would anybody come? ... Please? I'm lonely. Hail To The Chimp is all I know. Guys? What about Fusion Frenzy?

... What were we talking about?

I automatically think of tetris as an arcade game rather than a puzzle game - I'm not really sure why. I think it's the fact it has so much manual skill and dexterity and the whole time pressure thing, with the actual puzzle mechanics in tetris not being something to "solve", and instead it's more like exercising your pattern recognition and reaction skills rather than a complex idea you need to reason out.

well i think you've illustrated my point. the operative part of my statement was "at a certain point."

genres are very good at painting in very broad strokes- phrases like FPS, RPG, RTS- they can give you a sense of the type of interaction that'll be required of you. but like you've illustrated with the term "puzzle"- that's kinda just shorthand for "you'll have to use your noodle to advance." something like fez has just about as much in common with portal as call of duty has with god of war.

it's much the same with music- i can describe something as indie, or rock- but what does that even mean? it probably involves guitars and drums...but you really can't assume much beyond that. games are much the same- now that the medium is old enough to have a lot of cross-pollination- it's going to be harder and harder to use old terms with a historical context that is no longer relevant. games- much like music- are oftentimes simply too complex in their influences.

incidentally- that's probably why the comparison of portal to tetris is problematic for genres. on the one hand, you have tetris- which is a decidedly old-school game where you assemble pieces into a whole like the physical analogue. portal on the other hand has it's roots in FPS as well as platforming and more modern physics-based puzzlers.

Yeah, I suppose I am regretting using Portal instead of Sokoban or Picross, I knew I shouldn't have, but I feel like those games are nowhere near as known as Portal. Anyway, I'm not necessarily comparing Portal and Tetris, they are just there as examples of what people refer to as "puzzle games".

Tetris kinda only has one puzzle, "where does this block go?", which you repeat over and over. Which is enough to qualify as a puzzle game, but it's a fast and simple Arcade Puzzle game. Portal is a more complex First-Person Puzzle Platformer game. Still both puzzle games though.

Kind of like ambient music with hardly any notes or melody is still music, as is the overproduced multi-layered wall-of-sound music on the other end of the noisiness spectrum.

That said, I selected Portal for the poll, since it's more puzzling than Tetris.

I voted Tetris. I'd classify Portal more as a platformer/adventure game that has puzzles.

Would you classify competitive "puzzle" games (Puyo Puyo, Tetris Attack, Tetris Battle Gaiden) as fighting games? You are trying to defeat your opponent in a one on one match after all.