White theme needs to come back

I was just about to ask about that here... it's like, I'm 31 years old, this is gonna hurt my eyes, bro... "Oh cool, I see shiny lines on my walls whenever I look away from the screen, that's great"
hashtag make the theme great again

I can't use white themes so I usually find a way through internet magic to cope with things that are just too hard for my eyes to handle.
It would be nice if site-themes catered to all of us but I don't blame them when they don't.

@nodima: @ares42: I get the dark background thing. It is less of a strain than a bright version. The problem (for me at least) is the white text here. Black text never gave me problems with my eyes. Think of it like this. The white text is basically a more laser focused version of the white background. The blinding light of the light theme some of ya'll talk about is painfully present in the large blocks of text here. I have lines of this focused light burned in my eyes when I look away (which hurts my eyes and head after a bit), with a large white page my eyes just adjust to the light. They can't adjust to small little shapes and figures blasting into my eyes.

Seriously, the answer here (again for me) is to make the forums like the comments are now. The slightly grey hue to the text takes away this problem completely. I use the dark theme in discord all the time because it's not neon white text, but rather a slightly softer grey.

@ares42:Sorry, but it's not for aesthetic reasons and definitely not an arbitrary thing. There's actually a sort of "right" and "wrong" choice in here according to studies. Yes, you're correct that having a big bright screen is harmful to the eyes, but that's just when talking about the effect the screen has on the eyes and doesn't take in consideration what type of content the eyes are looking at.

When considering readability and accessibility, it's proven that black background on white text is also harmful to the eyes and more uncomfortable to the average user. When the background is white the display is bright and the iris closes a bit more than normal thus decreasing the effect of the "deformed" lens. With a black background the iris opens a bit more to receive more light and the deformation of the lens creates a much fuzzier focus at the eye. This creates the fuzzing effect and the effect of having the text "burned" into our eyes when looking away, that various people in here complained about. When white text reflects light, the reflected light scatters and runs into neighbouring words and letters, this makes the shape of the text harder to perceive and strains the eyes. Black text works better since black is a color that does not reflect light in any part of the visible spectrum, making it easier for most people to read black text on white background since the light that makes us read each word and letter is not reflected but absorbed, causing much less strain on our eyes. In the case of black background with white text, the effect is opposite because the reflected light from text scatter into each other. Changing the background from black to grey can improve the situation because it means less light reflects behind the words, making it easier on the eyes. Here's an example:

If you notice, the grey on the right side is extremely similar to the grey used when writing a new comment here on Giant Bomb and there's been some people disliked the dark background but stated that the background when writing a new text wasn't uncomfortable for them.

In addition to the point I've mentioned previously, it should also be considered that some users might have reading disabilities or health issues related to their vision. For example, some people with dyslexia might have problems reading black text in white background, so it's always good to either pick a font that is known to be easier to read or have two themes (dark and light) to accommodate them. As for eye conditions, people with astigmatism usually find it harder to read on a black background. Some people with myopia or other eye conditions might have some discomfort as well, but this doesn't apply to everyone. The amount of light in a room might also influence the perception of the text on screen, some people find it easier to read black backgrounds if they're in darker rooms.

Basically, the best practice is to have a lighter background as it doesn't disturb as much. If you're worried about the amount of light beamed into your eyes, the solution is to use an app (or the OS's own method) to make the screen closer to a sepia tone, reducing the blue light. That way you're getting the best of both worlds: easier readability with less eye strain and less light directed to your eyes.

This situation is something that design teachers tell us to have in consideration for our projects and is usually explained when learning about the human eye, light, color, and accessibility. Overall it seems that people who can't read on a black background suffer from a way bigger discomfort than the ones who don't like a bright background. All the websites with large amounts of text have a bright background because it's the best practice. It's definitely not something based on personal tastes and not an arbitrary standard coming from paper.

@johnymyko: Now I actually just want that one on the left...

@johnymyko: Thanks so much for explaining that in a much better way than I could have. You mention that the white text blurs together too when reading it and that is something I failed to mention as well. There is an effect where the white text creates this kind of top to bottom stretching of light you get when seeing a blurry light off in the distance (if that makes sense). Which makes it even more uncomfortable to actually read the text, let alone the problems when I look away.

I really appreciate others backing the (seemingly) few of us up on this in between the #darksite4lfye posts. I don't have a problem with a certain vision for the aesthetic here (and it's not one I even hate on the surface), but when there's an actual accessibility issue for people on significant parts of the site (the forums and wiki) it's hard to just be quiet and accept things the way they are. Like, we're not just being curmudgeonly and not liking change. It's a problem that will make me use the site less. I would also say to those who say they have to put up and deal with white background on black text, I'm sorry you have to deal with that but in this case we had an option all this time to remedy this problem and now it's been taken away. I've been using this site with the light theme for 7 years now, so there's not really been a reason to voice concern over this problem until now.

@johnymyko: @themanwithnoplan: I wonder if just changing the text color from bright white to more light gray would be a quick fix to make the current dark theme more readable?

EDIT: Never mind I see that you've already mentioned that it would :D

What I don't get is that this very box I'm inserting my letters into right now is actually grey background and white text. It's very pleasant to look at and doesn't hurt your eyes. But the rest of the forums are completely BLACK with bright white, and I really don't get why. Heck, the bar with the corporate links at the bottom of the page is also grey on the black background.

It just makes no sense. Surely they knew that this would cause eye strain? And why have these parts where it's taken into account, but the main things you'll be reading do not?

Black background works for me, white background hurts my eyes. I can empathize though. I'm usually on the receiving end of a tangential issue. Ppl don't give a fuck about color blind folks like me...

@retris: I wonder if this is a display setting thing. The forums are in no way black background with white text for me, it's much closer to the "good" example @johnymyko posted.

@ares42: While the black background is not pure black (#000000), it is pretty close to it, and the text is definitely bright white (#fff).

@ares42: Here's what it looks like for me. Which is definitely closer (although not 100%) to the pure black example in the image posted above. Very far off from being the right image. The problem is the black boxes the text sit in. The webpage behind it all is fine.

Here's an example of it being totally fine for me - discord's dark theme. This is how (in my opinion) you do a dark theme right for something text based.

@themanwithnoplan: comparing pictures doesn't really serve much purpose if there's a discrepancy with display settings. If you run a darker than normal display then yes, I can absolutely see how the dark boxes here could be considered basically black. Or maybe I'm just running a brighter than normal display.

My display is set to 80 brightness, if I turn it down to 60 then they look pretty much black, if I turn it up to 90 they're barely on the dark grey scale.

@ares42 I suppose you're right about the photo not being much different than the forum itself if it's a display thing. I also partially posted it to show the difference between dark themes of here and discord. I have my monitor set to 100 brightness and have tried it on all the different screen settings and it's still very much bright white text against a black or very dark grey box.

Regardless of a person's monitor's (or whatever screen they're using) settings there's a design to the opposing colors that's not gonna be fixed on the user's end unless we use some kind of third party thing to invert colors. And also in reference to the display settings - if I turn down the brightness it makes the dark box blacker and highlights the white text against it even more, and if I have it at the brightest settings I can muster out of my display it lightens the black box ever so slightly, but the white text becomes even more luminescent and blurry.

But besides all the "is this box black or just dark grey?", the bright white text is the big problem here. I'm not getting eye aches from the dark colors of the site. It's the contrast of the text against a dark background. I hate to keep pointing towards discord (it's something I use daily so it's the first thing my mind compares this whole thing to), but the text there being more greyed in hue helps a ton.

Even as someone that will always go for a dark version, i have to admit that the discord implementation is more pleasant to read. If GB is deadset on only supporting one version, perhaps there lies the solution. One version that causes less eyestrains for everyone. Grey, the ultimate bond between white & black.

It's simple for me really, if they don't bring back the white theme then I'm done reading any text on this site. Will purely just visit the site for the video content.

Of course Jeff loves the black theme cause he's colorblind!

Also Gamespot is white on black what are we even doing here! :D and this text box i am typing in is less black and way more pleasant to read.

I wonder what the ratio of dark and white theme users was for the old site and if that informed the direction of the redesign? Would be weird if they weren't tracking that and if the change was truly because Jeff likes it better.

@mikachops: There's another thread with a poll about it. Not exactly a huge sample size (and probably biased towards forum users over non-forum users), but it showed 30/70 former light/dark users.

I've also got to put in my vote for a light theme. It only takes a minute of perusing the forums or video comments before my eyes start feeling strained :(

I typically love dark themes (using it on Windows 10) but on websites where I need to read stuff for more than a few seconds, it really triggers my eye strain.

Add my vote for a lighter theme. This is the first site that actively hurts my eyes after a couple of minutes.

@wcarle@wemmick Hey, just gonna @ you real quick. I know you guys said it's a lot of work to add another theme, I still hope you will get to it at some point. As you can see there's loads of people that not just want it, but need it for actually being able to comfortably use the site.

@ares42: good to know, thanks. as a light user I find it crazy that dark is so popular, but if it is this all makes a little more sense.

Am I going crazy or did someone delete my long comment explaining in detail how light/dark backgrounds work and how it affects different users?

There was nothing wrong or offensive with it and I wasn't a jerk. I didn't break any rule of the site. It was pretty much some technical aspects and it took me some time to write it. It was the entry #54 on this thread. All there is left of it is the replies and the part @themanwithnoplan quoted on a different thread. Why is it gone from here?

Huh, yeah that's weird. Didn't seem at all like anything that warranted deleting was in it. It was very informative in fact.

@johnymyko:

As near as I can tell this was done in error and I undeleted them.

I’m really curious why a light theme would be a lot of work. I’d be surprised if a brand new site in 2018 isn’t using css custom variables or at least a preprocesor with variables. I work on a complicated payments website and implemented a dark theme easily. Colorful buttons don’t need to change, icons that look like text should already inherit text color, and there looks to be a few different dark backgrounds that need to go white and light grey. If the classes are set up properly, it doesn’t look like it would be more than 30 changes to existing classes.

@johnymyko: Wow, yeah, the dark grey is a lot easier on the eyes, even moreso than the difference is between white to black. Never put it together, but when I draw stuff on a PC (specifically pixel stuff) I use a dark grey background instead of straight up black (let alone white).

@kmj2318: I'm guessing since they've mentioned most of the work was in the CSS and design that their stylesheets are a mess and outdated. Because yeah, I could knock out the reskin code in very little time if given basic directions from a designer. If it is a mess then it could take longer but it's not a difficult task, they have the old site to go off lol.

This is the first time I've looked at the forums on my PC since the redesign and hoo boy does the white text need to go.

There's a Firefox addon that I use on white-background-black-text sites when I have a migraine (pretty often) called Dark Mode. Triggering it on an already dark site kind of flattens the colors, but there's several dark modes available. By default, it looks like this when it's on:

Dark site forever.