Why Backwards Compatibility is Crucially Important

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CairnsyTheBeard

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Edited By CairnsyTheBeard

With the rising cost of AAA games meaning that less of them exist and the ones that do are often broken or disappointing plus the myriad of indies that would run on a £200 netbook, consoles are loosing their appeal. The games you buy a console for are running dry, evident by the rampant re-mastering which can only be justified if there is a significant upgrade in performance or resolution. In stark contrast to PC where the big and small, the technically powerful and incredibly simple, everything from DOS to Windows 10.

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Backwards compatibility in something they (especially Microsoft) should have focused on from the start. Lets think about the benefits of the added cost and development time it would cause.

  • Allow 360/PS3 owners to feel safe about transferring over to the new generation, creating a much, much larger install base much quicker
  • Allow those without much money to sell their old console in order to buy the new one, safe in the knowledge that most of their old favorites will still be playable.
  • Make it less annoying for those of us who want to be able to play the odd Xbox 360/PS3 exclusive without keeping those beasts hogging an HDMI input or having to get them out and plug them in.
  • Allow the playing of arcade games that have no right not to run on the newest hardware
  • Come across are very customer friendly, allowing purchased content to be playable still, improving the standing of the brand (something that would have helped Xbox)
  • Extending the marketing synergy that describes these brands as THE place to get all Xbox or Playstation media
  • Drastically increase your library of games and continue to milk digital sales (something steam has had great success with), great for devs and publishers.
  • Allow the potential transfer of save game data in story focused games like The Witcher and Telltale's The Walking Dead

It really does seem strange that in an age where everything has to be cohesive, accessible and instant (Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify) the new consoles decided to scrap the momentum they had gained in favor of taking less of a loss on hardware out of the gate. I think they made the wrong decision, the average player isn't going to understand why his well worn copy of modern warfare won't work on the NEWER consoles, it just has to happen. I think the consoles should have been built with backwards compatibility in mind, even if it meant releasing later, scrapping Kinect or having slightly less powerful hardware. Just imagine signing into your Xbone to have all your old content downloading in the background for playing at your convenience. it's more important that these consoles just WORK and provide a comprehensive, instantaneous experience than it is that they run at 1080p and render dynamic hair physics in real-time or whatever. These consoles should have been all in one boxes, the definitive version of themselves, an all in one experience that's the last one you think you'll have to buy.

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Sony's ahead of it's time Playstation Now service seems defunct already, although apparently PS1 and PS2 emulation is in the works. Though I doubt anyone will ever get PS3 games to run well on the drastically different PS4 architecture. Especially after seeing how hard it was to even just remaster The Last of Us for PS4. If Sony dumps it's PS3 exclusives onto PS4 in remastered form along with older emulation which could significantly soften the blow, especially if they offer discounts for those who owned the PS3 versions of said games although that seems unlikely. At least progress is being made in the direction of modern media platforms. We can at last all play Mass Effect of our Xbox Ones!

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Sinusoidal

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I agree. I'd already own a PS4 if I could play my PS3 games on it. As it is, I'm upgrading my PC and forgetting about consoles this generation.

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guanophobic

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#2  Edited By guanophobic

I'd rather them focus on new titles than spend time/money on backwards compatibility.
As they all went for a x86 vs. PowerPC architecture, it's no small feat to just port stuff over (if those titles didn't already have a pc-port to start off with).

If I want to play last gen's games that bad, I can just dig out my old consoles from the cellar.

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@sinusoidal: Oh, it'd be an instant day one purchase for me if all my old content would just transfer across. I've just invested in my PC since 2011 as it can play everything from Alone in The Dark 1 to The Witcher 3.

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@guanophobic: I agree to some extent, but so many people invested in 360 content, even if pc versions are available. As for focusing on newer titles, well it's taken them a fair few years to get going so you could say it would have been worse had they focused on backwards compatibility or that it would have been better with something to fill the gap. I don't think the average mainstream player is going to want to dig out their old console.

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BradBrains

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#5  Edited By BradBrains

I don't disagree it's a good feature but there is no proof it's a profitable one

People who want it often barely use it and also those people aren't buying as many new games.

If it's Something that can be easily done (like ps1 compatability was) go for it. If. It worry about the future.

Your Xbox will still be around

Unless it red rings

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@bradbrains: True, but wouldn't bringing an install base to the One to continue to sell 360 and One games be profitable?

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EXTomar

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I am never sure where this adoration comes from. Yes, backwards compatibility is a nice check in the "Pro" column but is hardly a make or break feature. This is what Sony was counting on with the PS3 and tried to justify the outrageous price with that feature and it fell with a splat. Backwards Compatibility is a great feature but it has to be priced correctly.

The thing about legacy games support especially for modern games is that they are getting harder and harder to run. Burnout Paradise is a stellar game from that era that works stand alone but the real fun was online while the trend for even single player games is to have synced online ala Demon's Souls. These go away whether or not you pull out the original console or use compatibility mode.

Side topic: Although a little cynical, every generation has a giant pile of turds games. People maybe eager to play Viva Pinata but anyone really jonesing for Kameo? Is it more reasonable or economical to do BC or "HD Remake"?

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@extomar: you're right. it just feels like consoles are falling behind where other services (netflix, spotify, steam) are picking up the slack in terms of instantly, easy allowing consumption of a comprehensive library of content.

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BradBrains

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@cairnsythebeard: I don't think the feature brings In that many people. Also the people who are using it are probably just playing the games they have not buying new ones.

Like @extomar said it's a good feature but I think people think it's more important than it actually is

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Shindig

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As for consoles losing their appeal, its a £350-£400 investment for the next 5+ years. That's still more appealing than the PC upgrade path.

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@bradbrains: Fair enough, maybe i'm alone in my enthusiasm for the feature.

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@shindig: Well, after initially building my PC, i essentially spend a condole's worth on upgrading it each generation, plus it plays my old games and does other stuff.

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BradBrains

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@cairnsythebeard: Definitely not . But my question is it worth the time and effort As a company.

I think the answer is no, especially at this point in this console generation

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CairnsyTheBeard

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@bradbrains: Obviously Xbox disagree! I hope it becomes successful enough to at least get the 360 exclusives that I cant get on PC to the one (Dead Rising, Gears 2-3, Fable II) so I can discard my 360 completely.

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EricSmith

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@shindig: Don't let anyone on a gaming site fool you, PCs will never take hold as a major platform. I spent $800 on my last PC build (excluding a case, monitor, and KB/M) in mid-2013, I also spent $300 on a new video card in 2011, and $900 on a full build in 2009. This year is a video card upgrade for me (as well as possibly a new mobo/CPU because my motherboard is having issues.

This cost isn't in an effort to keep myself at the top of the line, it is to keep myself playing games on high-ish settings at 60fps. In that same time frame I have spent $900 on my consoles, and if it wasn't necessary for my job I could get away without ever having purchased a PS4. Sure, the Xbone doesn't play games on ultra settings, but for something that is less than half the cost of a decent PC build, it does a pretty great job.

Over time I have become more and more disillusioned with PC gaming. Every fifth game I have to fuck around with settings to get to run properly, or even run at all. For instance, Far Cry 4 just wouldn't work on my machine. I don't have any weird hardware or anything, the game just wouldn't work with my setup. Fuck. That.

PC gaming is a niche thing for many reasons, and it isn't going to change anytime soon.

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nasher27

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@extomar: Hey now, I remember Kameo being perfectly enjoyable for a 360 launch game.

As for the greater discussion, this feature does absolutely nothing for me. After my second red ring I jumped ship to PS3 last gen, some time around 2010 I believe. Thus, I have no catalog of old 360 games I could play.

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CairnsyTheBeard

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#17  Edited By CairnsyTheBeard

@ericsmith: It seems pretty big as a platform due to its flexibility. From a shit netbook running the sims or dota to a top end rig running gta v. In terms of traditional big mainstream games, consoles will always hold the ground. I agree that the amount of tweaking to get some games working isn't acceptable in some cases and would put many a potential console purchaser off pc for sure.

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liquiddragon

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It's a nice thing and I definitely love it when it's done right but BC on 360 was garbage so let's seeing how this turns out.

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probablytuna

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#19  Edited By probablytuna

Backwards compatibility is nice when it's there, but it's not something I would fall head over heels for. I still have my PS3 plugged in next to my PS4 in case I ever want to finish off Snake Eater or finally go back to P3 FES. It's only when my PS3 dies that's when I'll lament over the lack of BC on the PS4.

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dietlime

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#20  Edited By dietlime

Microsoft makes some announcement that causes me to sell every Xbox One that's been sitting my my warehouse for the last four months in the space of three days with as many people asking for them every day... and here you are, certainly Sony fans, certainly downplaying. Certainly in person.

I didn't watch E3. I don't have cable, I don't care about exclusives. I watched the Oculus' and other VR team announcements, because they were groundbreaking.

I told people six months ago I was buying an Xbox One because Microsoft had great support for the the 360 with ongoing updates - even though as a teenager I got roped into four (five?) bad-soldered refurbs as an early adopter.

I was made fun of on message boards, in real life. Because Micro$oft. Now you post an image on Reddit of your dog having destroyed your game the day it came out. Guess what? If we hadn't all cried like it was the apocalypse networked digital DRM (which is the future, period) probably would have made the disc unnecessary. Instead I got the ability to resell Destiny for $13. Whoopie. Which I didn't do, by the way- today I met a girl who plays. I don't like Activision-Bungie's business model, but you bet I'll play if I can make a friend in person doing it.

Microsoft is doing a thing Sony doesn't have the resources to, and it's a great thing. It's a fan service thing.

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bceagles128

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Crucially important to the console war? Sure, maybe. But it is almost impossible for me to care less about backwards compatibility than I currently do.

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deactivated-5d000a93730da

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If only PC games were backwords compatible.. what a world that would be..

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Claude

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#23  Edited By Claude

I love how my Wii U plays my old Wii games. I still have my Wii plugged up to play my GameCube games. Pretty cool.

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Dizzyhippos

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Saying all PC games are backwards compatible is a bit misleading, sure I can install fallout 3 on my windows 7 PC but it crashes often, ya you can install them but not all work as intended (I say this as someone that plays mostly on the PC these days).

And while backwards compatibility is a good bonus to give consumers, at some point your hindering the new machine in service of the old one. The hardware architecture on the PS3 is completely different from that of the PS4 and I for one would prefer they spend there resources making new games.

As far as the 360 to 1 compatibility goes, lets see how long it lasts it wouldn't be the first time Microsoft did something to win over the fans and then quietly killed it later when the mainstream was no longer listening (Phantom Dust anyone?). Not to mention the whole thing is entirely dependent on the publishers saying "ya we should totally do that it would be a benefit for our customers"

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SSully

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I used to be one of the people who touted the BC feature of the PS3. In reality though I used it twice for about an hour each. I could be in the minority, but I just rather play current gen games then go back to stuff I've already played. Every so often I'll get an urge to check out an old game, but it's a quick curiosity, not something I spend a lot of time doing.

BC is a nice feature to have, but I didn't even blink an eye when XBone/PS4 launched without it.

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CheapPoison

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#26  Edited By CheapPoison

A few generations ago I thought this was a big deal too. But Now I don't see me returning to any of that. The only place where I can see it being nice is when a console launches but there aren't a lot of good titles yet you might be able to pick up the best titles from the previous generations right away. (That are not too old.)

I like to keep the games, but I am not playing them. So at that point I just keep the games and console in storage.

And also being fully pc for years and years now, that problem never even enters my mind.
But! That is for me personally I bet for a lot of people it will be a huge deal. (As it was for me when ps2 launched and my mind being blown by it seeing nintendo systems never transfered over the games)

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Punched

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It's a nice convenience thing but far from crucially important and probably not worth the resources required.

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Zirilius

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#28  Edited By Zirilius

Backwards compatibility never existed until the PS2 allowed you to play PS1 games and now there are groups of people who feel entitled that every new generation of consoles should have it. Most people who care about backwards compatibility tend to keep last generations console around anyways. I was one of those crazy people who bought a $600 PS3 and I did use it to play a good majority of PS2 JRPG's that launched late in the PS2's life cycle. On the flip side I would have loved to pay significantly less and just kept my PS2 around.

Great that they'll be able to do that but ultimately its one feature I don't care a whole lot about until the get multi-disc games working.

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supermulletman

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Nice post! You've made your point well, but I disagree. I would much rather have the best experience I can have today, rather than one thats hindered by some (potentially unused) option to play older games. And to be honest I never expected backwards compatibility out of this generation of hardware, I see it as the exception rather than the norm.

PS2 was backwards compatible because the sound chip basically was the PS1 cpu. I'm not sure about the Wii having GC compatibility but they both used IBM powerpc processors, so again it was probably relatively simple. Compared to the current generation where both Sony and Microsoft are using different chips, different vendors, different instruction sets. Its a big technical hurdle to climb.

To be honest I'm impressed Microsoft achieved any kind of backwards compatibility this time around, from a tech point of view I'd be super interested in knowing more of the details.

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RonGalaxy

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#30  Edited By RonGalaxy

Apparently Sony engineers figured out a way to cheaply make the equivalent of 6 ps3's fit in a small box for the PlayStation now service (the game isn't just running in the cloud, its running on a real ps3 somewhere. Honestly, they should just apply this to a plug in peripheral to the ps4/incorporate it into the next ps4 design. Also, if ps2 to ps3 emulation was possible, why can't ps3 to ps4 emulation be as well?

Though, I don't really agree it has much affect on console sales. Maybe to kids who don't have money and need to make a case to their parents. Ps4 has already sold a shitload without it.

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supermulletman

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@rongalaxy Well, you might have had a different experience to me, but I found the PS3->PS2 emulation to be consistently terrible. I always wound up taking out the PS2 when I wanted to play my older games. I think the PS3 versions had different levels of emulation. Here in Europe I don't think we ever got the hardware emulation, we only had software. If you have an early US PS3 you might have had a better experience than I did.

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shinjin977

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Instead of console bc (which I agree every console that can do it should do it.) I would rather all console games come to pc. Nes era games and everything to the present. That way I do not have to worry about bc at all because my pc will always run them.

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Ben_H

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#33  Edited By Ben_H

I'm certainly glad there's backwards compatibility for the Xbox. I'll probably get one now. I was leaning towards getting one but with this combined with my 360 about to die (it's from 2007), it makes it easier to justify, especially with a new Forza and the Rare Replay coming out.

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BlueFalcon

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#34  Edited By BlueFalcon

BC is something everyone says they want but stop using 6 months into every console cycle. If you want to play old games keep your console or use an emulator.

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Kumatose

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@bluefalcon said:

BC is something everyone says they want but stop using 6 months into every console cycle. If you want to play old games keep your console or use an emulator.

What a crock of bullshit. When I had my PS2, I continually used it to revisit PS1 games. Even now, I use my Vita to play PS1 and PSP games frequently, and there are many PS2 Classics I would also play if we had access to that library.

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FrostyRyan

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It's not very important at all, no.

New gen machines are meant for just that- new gen. If a sacrifice has to be made to focus more on the new rather than the old, then so be it.

Now that's not to say a console doesn't get bonus points for including backwards compatibility but we buy new consoles for new games, not old ones. Don't compromise the hardware to cater to shit we already can play.

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sasnake

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I always think people exaggerate the "broken games" part, I would like to see a list of broken games on console.

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joshwent

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Don't compromise the hardware to cater to shit we already can play.

This is the thing that rarely comes up in these conversations. When a new console comes out that isn't BC, there always seems to be this misguided sentiment of, "Well, guess I'll throw all my games in the trash, then. Thanks a lot [sarcastically referenced console manufacturer]."

Having two systems next to your TV is certainly less user friendly than one that can play the games of both. But it's hardly some unsurmountable sacrifice that you have to make.

If what BC would take is stunting the new hardware, making it more expensive, or even just spending time and money offering a service where you only have access to a limited catalog of past games, I'd rather they put all of that effort into making the new thing as great as possible. The PS4 and XBO are still kind of flawed. Fix that shit, make a great platform for great games, incorporate new tech... and then maybe put some work into letting people play old shit.

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FinalDasa

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#39 FinalDasa  Moderator

Problem is this isn't a single decision by a single company, it's a choice that has to be made by both the Sony/Microsoft as well as every publisher or developer for every game that could be backwards compatible. Not to mention backwards compatibility isn't as easy as putting a disc into another console, sometimes work needs to be done on the new hardware and on the older games just to make them work on the new hardware.

While it would be a great decision from a customer's perspective it doesn't always make a good business decision to have backwards compatibility. For one publishers/developers want you to buy their new games or their new remasters and not to keep playing old ones. Hardware makers want the same thing, they want you to buy those news games rather than simply bringing your older titles over and having even less of a reason to buy new stuff.

What you want isn't a bad idea but if Sony or Microsoft sell you the definitive version of their consoles why would you want the next one in 10 years? Their best bet is to keep you focused on the new stuff and not continually playing in the past.

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teaoverlord

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#40  Edited By teaoverlord

I didn't read the OP but is it because Xbone/PS4 only have like 3 good games?

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mike

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#41  Edited By mike

@dizzyhippos said:

Saying all PC games are backwards compatible is a bit misleading, sure I can install fallout 3 on my windows 7 PC but it crashes often, ya you can install them but not all work as intended (I say this as someone that plays mostly on the PC these days).

Fallout 3 is definitely an exception to this rather than a rule - but I have it running on my Windows 8.1 machine absolutely perfectly, I haven't had a single crash in the last 25 hours of gameplay since I first installed it. I found a guide online, followed the instructions, and it took about 5 minutes to tweak a couple of ini files when I first downloaded my Steam copy and now it's set. I do understand that this type of thing, while pretty simple in the grand scheme of things, may be too complex or technical for many people to fully grasp or bother with. For those that either can't or won't spend the time to invest in this hobby, perhaps consoles are the better option. For me, doing things like tweaking Fallout 3 to get it working is part of what I enjoy about this hobby. There is something satisfying about getting an old game that isn't supposed to work on my operating system working flawlessly, complete with mods and all.

I have hundreds of games in my Steam library, and about the only one that doesn't work very well on my current PC is Knights of the Old Republic. There are tweaks and mods out there for that game too, I just never got around to messing with them to get the game to work properly. Other than that, I just pick a game, click install, and play it. I'm a 100% PC gamer and have opted out of consoles completely this generation and couldn't be happier about it.

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bluefish

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#43  Edited By bluefish

@bluefalcon said:
@kumatose said:

@bluefalcon said:

BC is something everyone says they want but stop using 6 months into every console cycle. If you want to play old games keep your console or use an emulator.

What a crock of bullshit. When I had my PS2, I continually used it to revisit PS1 games. Even now, I use my Vita to play PS1 and PSP games frequently, and there are many PS2 Classics I would also play if we had access to that library.

Oh wow. A person on an internet forum with a different opinion than someone else who decided to be rude and act like a child in his/her response. So fresh and original...

Falcon is pretty much right. The 360 was BC and that was a big "THING" in my mind. It was a feature I wanted for sure. All told I maybe used it to play maybe 4 classic Xbox games over the 360's lifespan. MS later put out numbers and said less that %5 of 360 owners ever used the feature and that the resources used to develop it could have been put to better use elsewhere.

And I say this as a dude who was an owner of Xbox and GameCube exclusively, no PS2 library to distract me.

I've been playing more 360 games this gen (Xbone/PS4) comparatively, playing Mass Effect 2 right now actually, so I just kept my old 360. No problem.

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BananasFoster

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no.

Backward compatibility isn't important at all. NOBODY COMES INTO YOUR HOUSE AND DESTROYS YOUR OLD CONSOLE. The idea that people feel "safe" upgrading is just stupid. If you want to play your old games... keep your old console. It's really that simple.

I have a PS4. I got it on day 1. It sits next to my PS3. I have never once had a problem playing my old gams on my old console.

People arguing about the cosmetic difficulty of having two consoles sitting out don't have legitimate arguments. That's like saying multiple colors of gameboys are critically important because it allows you to match your console to your backpack.

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WickedCobra03

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I would like to really still see the PS4 have backwards compatibility of PS1/PS2/PS3 games. I think that would make it easier to transition. I still tend to unhook my PS4 and go back to my PS3 for weeks at a time because I do have a backlog of games. Especially some of the PS1/PS2 games that I bought digitally during the sales for under $3 or $4.

I play a lot of previous gen games that I still want to catch up on on or even replay after 5 years.

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ThePanzini

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Well if we take MS word 5% of 360 owners used bc, 80m 360 owners - 5% = 4m thats how important bc is.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/22/4355984/xbox-one-backward-compatibility-backwards-thinking-don-mattrick

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charlie_s123

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@bananasfoster: No, old consoles do break however. In which case it would be nice to be able to play your old games on your current console.

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BananasFoster

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#48  Edited By BananasFoster
@thepanzini said:

Well if we take MS word 5% of 360 owners used bc, 80m 360 owners - 5% = 4m thats how important bc is.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/22/4355984/xbox-one-backward-compatibility-backwards-thinking-don-mattrick

That's the number of people who take advantage of it at all. That's not saying how often or to what degree. The reports coming out of MS in the early day of the 360 were suggesting that most people barely spent any time outside of just checking to see if it worked. And really, with the Xbox 360, why would they? There weren't any Xbox titles that were even worthy of revisiting save, maybe, Morrowind, Halo and Halo 2, KOTOR, kOTOR 2, Jade Empire, Deus Ex 2 and... that's about it as far as I recall.

The idea that every new console should be able to play old console games is really kind of absurd. I feel like gamer's expectations have gone up in direct contrast to the number of gamers having technical knowledge of how to make games goes down. Gamers used to have to know about hardware and software just to get games to run properly on their computers (that they usually built, to some capacity). Now gamers just have demands.

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JayHala

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Good read, I agree and don't expect to see PS3 emulation on the PS4...but PS1 & PS2 backwards compatibility would be a fine addition to the console's lackluster lineup so far.

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Ezekiel

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One of the many reasons I dislike consoles. You can't preserve games when you have to start over every generation. These consoles are going to die, essentially taking the games with them. Making people own twenty consoles and handhelds when a single platform could do it all is just wasteful. The only ones who benefit from consoles are the big three. I could put up a big wall of text about this.

I play older games fairly regularly. Right now I'm playing Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory again. It's quite nice not having to drag out another device for it.