You know, I was playing The Game Room on XBLA and I thought this would have been a nice thing to give to their loyal customers. Access to hundreds of old arcade games for free. Kind of a way to deliver a PS Home experience to the avatars. Instead, I see more typical Microsoft and the likes of Craig "Central Scrutinizer" Metcalf continuing to kiss Microsoft's behind over that practice.
I definitely will try PS+ but not at this time as the free stuff isn't anything I want. At least you're getting a lot for your money.
I'd love to see MS do the same someday. Giving away crap like Aeris Wing and Yaris isn't going to cut it any more. Then again, I've played a good 30 or so exclusive XBLA demos so far and only 'Splosion Man, KrissX, Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2, Outrun Arcade and maybe one other would be worth buying. Seems like there are too many me-too games on XBLA and nothing as amazing as Flower.
Why PlayStation Plus is a better deal than XBOX Live Gold
You claim to know what you are paying for. Are they dedicated servers? What cost does Microsoft have to cover that makes online play worth paying for to the average consumer? Disregarding your 'deals' you claim to have stumbled upon, do you really think average consumers are going to fair the same? The bottom line is that most people pay $50 a year and have no idea what they are paying for and also why they are paying for it. I have more to say, but I have to go, be back later!
EDIT: Okay i'm back. Just finished watching Sherlock Holmes and I really enjoyed it. Anyways, I hope you don't take this as my means to attack one console over another. I thoroughly agree that Xbox Live is a better service overall than PSN is. I prefer PSN at the moment, because I am not an avid online multiplayer participant. If I wanted to play online most of the time, then I would most likely choose Xbox Live for it's integration of the service to the console user interface. I still believe that Sony offers a decent premium service that offers choice and value, while Xbox Live users have very little choice if they want to use their consoles for online gaming.
So what you meant to say was, "if Sony produces any decent free games for the PSN+ service, I will eat my hat. Unless I don't like them." If you're the sole arbiter of what is and is not "decent" then I suppose you shall never know the sweet taste of pure, vine-ripened hat." @Spoonman671: I said a decent game. Wipeout HD hardly qualifies (I'm still mystified why anyone finds it worth playing). But hey, maybe the Fat Princess content and Age of Zombies will make up for it :/ Hat is still firmly on my head. Edit: And remember, they're only "free" so long as you're subscribing. As soon as your PSN+ membership ends, they are free no longer. "
" @Damien said:I'm sorry but it is widely expected that Sony will charge for multiplayer next gen. Do you think they just look over at the Xbox and see all those millions of dollars flowing in and don't want a piece of that pie? They can't get away with it this gen because they harped on it as a feature over the competitor, but more likely than not, next console cycle you're paying for multiplayer on the Sony console.Paid multiplayer is universally assumed for the next generation Sony console.No, it's not. "
"You claim to know what you are paying for. Are they dedicated servers? What cost does Microsoft have to cover that makes online play worth paying for to the average consumer?" You're not serious, right? You do know that it costs money to run servers? You know, electricity, hardware, support staff, that sort of thing, right? Right now, Sony eats those costs. Microsoft has the people using the service pay for it. Live Gold's online play is all centralized. We all know that.
"Disregarding your 'deals' you claim to have stumbled upon, do you really think average consumers are going to fair the same?" Uh, yeah. They come to the email address you have to give Xbox Live when you sign up. Even if you're just a silver member. And they're plastered all over Xbox Live when there's a deal on. It's not like I had to go hunt them down. They're up there, in the menus, in big BOLD type: "GET LIVE GOLD FOR XXX PER YEAR! SPECIAL DEAL!" You'd have to be blind or not paying attention to not see them.
"The bottom line is that most people pay $50 a year and have no idea what they are paying for and also why they are paying for it." Uh, no. You get everything on Live (save for Netflix and online play) for free on Xbox Live. When you go to sign up for Gold, they pretty much tell you what you're buying: online play, access to Netflix. You can't miss it. It's right there for you to see. You have to go out of your way to sign up for Gold. Do you really think people go out and buy a $50 service for their console without knowing what they're buying?
My point is that you have no idea what Sony is going to offer you from month to month. Example: tell me what free items Sony is going to offer next January. See? You don't know. It might be something fantastic. It might be utter shit. All I'm saying is that until Sony demonstrates that it is truly committed to giving free content, we can't be confident it's anything good. With Live, it's simple: my $50 (or less) is buying online play. Everyone knows what Live Gold is for. What is PSN+? It's a bunch of free content and demos. What free content? Some games, some themes. Which ones? Well, we don't know yet.
"Xbox Live users have very little choice if they want to use their consoles for online gaming." This makes no sense to me. What other options would you want?
@Spoonman671: Yes, for myself, I am the arbiter of what is and is not decent content. Since I'd be the one paying for the plan, right? Or do you normally allow other people to decide which games you should like? I think Wipeout HD is crap, along with the rest of what they are offering for "free" with their paid service. I look at the current offerings and am underwhelmed. And when I see something that qualifies as decent content on PSN+ I will (figuratively) eat my hat by purchasing the service. Right now, the chances of that happening are very slim.
Damien, just because you believe something is true does not mean everyone agrees. Please cite some sort of statistic or other proof before declaring something universally, widely, or accepted at all by anyone other than yourself." @Spoonman671 said:
I'm sorry but it is widely expected that Sony will charge for multiplayer next gen. Do you think they just look over at the Xbox and see all those millions of dollars flowing in and don't want a piece of that pie? They can't get away with it this gen because they harped on it as a feature over the competitor, but more likely than not, next console cycle you're paying for multiplayer on the Sony console. "" @Damien said:
No, it's not. "Paid multiplayer is universally assumed for the next generation Sony console.
As to your actual argument for Sony charging for multiplayer next cycle, I disagree. It was no accident that Sony didn't charge for PSN this generation, they did it to get an advantage over Xbox Live. If that advantage was deemed significant enough (in terms of extra console/game sales), then they'll use use it in the next generation, and the generation after, and so on until it stops being beneficial to them. I'm not saying Sony won't charge for PSN next generation, I'm saying that it's a question Sony has to be asking itself, which we certainly don't know the answer to.
actually xbl Gold does give you premium early access to certain demos. Also netflix isn't free on any platform. You have to be subscribed to it. Further, a person who has all the systems can still be a fanboy. Alot of the biggest fanboys actually do have all the sytems because they are passionately into games and they feel like owning everything gives them some sort of legitimacy and excuses their specific console bias. It doesn't though, of course." Alright, so, I've been thinking a lot about this. I have both a 360 and a PS3. I love both systems, so please try not to paint me as a fanboy, here. I am probably not as into multiplayer stuff as much as the average guy, but I do enjoy it every once in awhile. PlayStation Plus and XBL Gold both cost $49.99 a year. On XBL, that gives you access to online gaming (free with basic PSN), Netflix (also free), and one free game, namely, 1 Vs. 100. Where you have slightly more than no chance to win more games. On Plus, you are actually paying for benefits. Exclusive access to betas and demos, which, sure, you could say are just as easily offered free to everyone, but so is online multiplayer. New free games and stuff every month, and yeah, I know they go away when you stop paying for them, but since you're getting new stuff every month, and if you keep up the service, isn't it likely you'll get your fill of that stuff eventually? If Microsoft started offering free games for Gold, people'd flock to it, regardless of whether or not you got to keep them after you cancelled. Where I think the problem lies, is that nothing Sony's doing is essential. There's nothing you need Plus for. Which I think is a good thing. It's an actual premium service, instead of Microsoft's policy of selling you the XBOX and making you pay for a part of it forever. So really, for a guy like me with both systems, I'd rather pay that $50 to Sony and get something, and just use my ps3 for all my multiplayer and netflix and hulu plus needs. For games like Halo, I think I could buy a month or two of service and be good, although I realize I may be a unique case here. Really, at this point the only thing I need either service for is Hulu Plus, so if I'm going to pay $50 a year, might as well pay it to the guys who will give me something for it. Even if it does go away when I finally decide to stop paying it. "
" @triple07 said:" I disagree because with Xbox Live you are paying for better multiplayer like faster matching and better integrated friend lists and the like...."I have had a 360 for years and just got a PS3 last November and I am continually baffled by the claim that XBL is any better than PSN. Could someone explain to me how this is so? The matching in my experience is not any better, faster, more accurate etc and IMO the friends list integration on PSN is just fine. "
Placebo effect. If you pay for it it must be better. I'd agree about the friends list stuff - the PSN in-game integration is fine but I wouldn't hesitate to say the 360s is better. But people thinking matchmaking is faster or online having less lag is totally a result of the $50 a year sugar pill and is more of a game to game thing rather than console issue.
PSN+ seems OK to me. I'm not going to buy it, but seeing as the the first month of releases make a 3 month subscription look cheap it will probably only seem better down the road.
I'd bet next cycle everything will be pay to play though so if you hate it, good luck.
Also, you're speaking of the deals on XBL dashboard? I've only seen the one that says "receive one extra month when you pay for one".
"You get everything on Live (save for Netflix and online play) for free on Xbox Liv e." Well that's just really cool. I get everything except the main feature that an online-enabled console should have. With Xbox Live Silver I have the right to pay for movies, games, and music videos. Whoopedee-f**king-do! All these things like demos, game videos, and talking to friends that you say is all free should be free and is free elsewhere as well. The only feature XBL has over PSN right now is Cross game chat. Oh and I especially love how Netflix, ESPN, and other services that you have to pay for, you have to pay an XBL fee to access it on top of it all.
You have to go out of your way to sign up for Gold. Do you really think people go out and buy a $50 service for their console without knowing what they're buying?
Yup. I still have no idea what I'm paying for. If the servers were dedicated it would make perfect sense, because the cost of maintaining those does not justifiy the cost of XBL Gold. Paying for miscellaneous sever costs makes no sense, because the cost of the content on the marketplace servers helps pay the costs of running those servers. Other than that, I'm just giving my money away.
So you want to know exactly what you're getting down to each specific item on PSN? It really doesn't matter, because they are accessible and useable by all. The free games are all valuable to everyone, the DLC, themes, and avatars are free to keep forever, and discounts which everyone can get behind. I understand that you want details, and maybe Sony will offer the details early in the future. PSN+ is extra content, and does not hamper the experience that was previously available.
I understand your argument, but let me put it this way. There are a good number of consumers who ask why they are paying for what they are paying for. Ex. Why do I have to pay for XBL to access my Netflix account on XBL when I can do it for free elsewhere? Why do I have to pay for XBL to access online play when there aren't even dedicated servers? Why would I even want to pay for XBL Gold when I just want to play online a few times with some friends? Why would I even want XBL silver?
They are valid questions which really can't be answered with anything else besides a flat "because". I think the service is fine for hardcore online gamers, but for others it just doesn't make sense. Like I said before, XBL is an integrated service and does online best, but that doesn't mean I should have to pay for it. I can get a slightly less integrated experience elsewhere, and if I had PSN+ and decided to drop it later on, it would not cripple my console as an online-enabled device shouldn't be.
The free digital download of LBP that you get to keep even if you cancel your plus subscription has me thinking that I might get it.
I see you have edited your original comment a bit. First off, thank you for spelling my name correctly. That is a huge pet peeve of mine in real life and there is also an actual user with the name Damian here on these boards." @Damien said:
Damien, just because you believe something is true does not mean everyone agrees. Please cite some sort of statistic or other proof before declaring something universally, widely, or accepted at all by anyone other than yourself." @Spoonman671 said:
I'm sorry but it is widely expected that Sony will charge for multiplayer next gen. Do you think they just look over at the Xbox and see all those millions of dollars flowing in and don't want a piece of that pie? They can't get away with it this gen because they harped on it as a feature over the competitor, but more likely than not, next console cycle you're paying for multiplayer on the Sony console. "" @Damien said:
No, it's not. "Paid multiplayer is universally assumed for the next generation Sony console.
As to your actual argument for Sony charging for multiplayer next cycle, I disagree. It was no accident that Sony didn't charge for PSN this generation, they did it to get an advantage over Xbox Live. If that advantage was deemed significant enough (in terms of extra console/game sales), then they'll use use it in the next generation, and the generation after, and so on until it stops being beneficial to them. I'm not saying Sony won't charge for PSN next generation, I'm saying that it's a question Sony has to be asking itself, which we certainly don't know the answer to. "
Now while I don't have statistics on my view as I'm not a market researcher, I do know of other people, in real life and online, that hold similar views, which shows that it is "accepted at all by anyone other than [my]self." But for shits, here you go. Let's see if the GB community has any thoughts on this.
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/do-you-think-sony-will-charge-for-online-multiplayer-access-for-their-next-generation-home-console/429034/
As for your argument, yes I agree "It was no accident that Sony didn't charge for PSN this generation, they did it to get an advantage over Xbox Live." In my opinion, it was almost a necessity, as it was used to a large degree to counteract the 1 year headstart of the 360 and add perceived and actual value to the relatively steep $600 pricetag of the PS3. That won't be necessary next console cycle, freeing up multiplayer to be a pay service. I would also argue that the free multiplayer stopped being financially beneficial to Sony once the console features were almost equal, as they are now. All these points lead me to believe that Sony will charge next gen. That's all I'm saying.
One more thing. I'm sure you didn't mean it, but your first paragraph came off as extremely patronizing, like a teacher to an extremely young student. Yeh, I know how opinions work.
"Well that's just really cool. I get everything except the main feature that an online-enabled console should have." About half of console game players don't play online, and so for them the feature is worthless. Those who want it have a choice to pay. When I wasn't paying online, I was happy to see the upkeep cost on an online service transfered (mostly) to those who wanted to use it. When I was playing online, I knew that I was paying to do so, and didn't mind.
"Paying for miscellaneous sever costs makes no sense, because the cost of the content on the marketplace servers helps pay the costs of running those servers." Heh. You really have no idea what you're talking about. It's hilarious.
"Yup. I still have no idea what I'm paying for." Let's make it very simple. No-pay, no play online. Pay, play online. Simple enough? You keep harping on dedicated servers, but ... gosh, I can't stop laughing at how stupid this argument is! Seriously, you're paying to play online. How difficult is that? Or are you being obtuse? I suspect that must be it.
Do I want to know "exactly what you're getting down to each specific item on PSN?" No. I want a track record. Right now, PSN+ is nothing more than promises by Sony. Sony isn't good at living up to such promises. Like I've said, if Sony shows itself committed to providing decent content, I might change my mind about PSN+. Right now, it seems a bit silly to argue the merits of PSN+ against PSN (Or Live Gold) because all we have are promises by Sony. Give it six months, then maybe we can talk about it. Right now I find it difficult to believe Sony will follow through. I will be delighted to be proven wrong. That said, I doubt they could provide enough "free" content to be worth the $50 fee.
"Why do I have to pay for XBL to access online play when there aren't even dedicated servers?" People who ask this question have no idea what they're talking about. Dedicated servers do not matter. Period. On top of the fact that I highly doubt anyone has asked you such a question.
"Why would I even want XBL silver?" I answered this earlier. It's free. You get access to stuff like ... well I already listed it, and then you ignored it.
"They are valid questions which really can't be answered with anything else besides a flat "because"." Because servers (even centralized, non-dedicated [still laughing!] servers cost money to maintain). My answer was somewhat longer than "because." But you're not listening for some reason. I don't know why.
"XBL is an integrated service and does online best, but that doesn't mean I should have to pay for it." Ah, God forbid that we actually pay for the "best" online service available on consoles! Sometimes the hubris of gamers reaches absolutely stunning heights. Thanks for the laughs!
I will never pay for online multiplayer. I rarely use it and the only thing I use the internet for on my PS3 is demos. If you're into Playstation+, good for you. Go for it.
I get my PSN for free and it does everything I want it to do. Yay me!
" Yea i haven't understood the ps+ complaining at all. They're not taking anything away from you by offering this so chill, If people wanna pay a subscription to get random free stuff every month then let them. It's kinda fun seeing what new free stuff/discounts you could be getting the next month. "how is it free if you pay for it? :)
They're not making the service better (yet?) with PS Plus. They just give you free shit. Free shit is nice, don't get me wrong. Just seems kinda desperate.
I don't have a PS3 but one thing I really like the sound of about Playstation's online service is the free online gaming. However, I still don't like the sound of Plus being the only way to get betas and demos that would otherwise be free and I wouldn't want to pay for a service where I lose everything if I stop paying that subscription.
" @CronoXtream said:fanboy.......indeed i am, and proud of it.........nuff said." pos3..........nuff said. "Fanboy.... nuff said "
" @triple07 said:no vross game chat, trophies suck, allows games to make their own matchmaking (metal gear solid 4)" I disagree because with Xbox Live you are paying for better multiplayer like faster matching and better integrated friend lists and the like...."I have had a 360 for years and just got a PS3 last November and I am continually baffled by the claim that XBL is any better than PSN. Could someone explain to me how this is so? The matching in my experience is not any better, faster, more accurate etc and IMO the friends list integration on PSN is just fine. "
paying extra to play games on a console is like going to a hooker and her telling you its extra to get your balls cupped
"touché
Your logic doesn't make all that much sense.
Comparing XBL Gold with regular PSN has always been reasonable. But you're not 'getting more' for PS+ than Xbox Live, you're getting less because regular PSN already has most of the features that XBL Gold offers with its service. Comparing the extra features offered by XBL and PS+, the latter clearly has far less to offer.
"
My points were very simple. I wasn't even being argumentative with you, just pointing out that Silver offers more than "nothing". You responded to my long list of features by saying that when people ask why they should get silver, they say "because." That is childish. And I pointed out that until Sony builds a track record with PSN+, the service is still an unknown quantity. I haven't been the one ignoring arguments. Ignoring arguments looks like you last post where you ... ignore everything I said, and start calling me names. Going ad hominem usually is the sign of someone who can't come up with anything new to say.
But I'm going away for the holiday, so this will be my last post on the topic. I'm sure everyone else here will be glad to see us both go. This pointless argument was stinking up the place.
" @Nasar7 said:1.PSN+ has cross game chat" @triple07 said:no vross game chat, trophies suck, allows games to make their own matchmaking (metal gear solid 4) "" I disagree because with Xbox Live you are paying for better multiplayer like faster matching and better integrated friend lists and the like...."I have had a 360 for years and just got a PS3 last November and I am continually baffled by the claim that XBL is any better than PSN. Could someone explain to me how this is so? The matching in my experience is not any better, faster, more accurate etc and IMO the friends list integration on PSN is just fine. "
2. Whatever, subjective
3. Has no negative effect on the quality of matchmaking
the fact that trophies suck is not subjective. it is buried 20 pages deep and takes 2 min to load up the damn thing. also once you get there, its is not easily comparable to others. "i lvl 6" "im lvl 5.6546578644345678869365894658364439210" DUMB!!!! 3. Your right because THERE IS NO FUCKING MATCHMAKING! devs have to go make there own. for example: i wana play metal gear online! i need to go to my computer and make a new account with konami, giving the a lot of info so they can send me great marketing! Then i need to open my email and click the link to activate the account! now i can log into the game server but o wait! now i have to download the game from the internet why the fuck couldnt you put it on the damn disk? O well now i will wait 5 min for it to finish! Great! what do i do in the mean time..... get on xbox live! press one button and i can find a match WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Crazy!!!!!! i dont have to look though pages and pages and pages and pages of severs looking for a good ping!" @slyspider said:
1.PSN+ has cross game chat 2. Whatever, subjective 3. Has no negative effect on the quality of matchmaking "" @Nasar7 said:
" @triple07 said:no vross game chat, trophies suck, allows games to make their own matchmaking (metal gear solid 4) "" I disagree because with Xbox Live you are paying for better multiplayer like faster matching and better integrated friend lists and the like...."I have had a 360 for years and just got a PS3 last November and I am continually baffled by the claim that XBL is any better than PSN. Could someone explain to me how this is so? The matching in my experience is not any better, faster, more accurate etc and IMO the friends list integration on PSN is just fine. "
If I could get an invite to Hulu Plus, I would go ahead and get Playstation Plus, too. It's weird to want to give money to someone, and they'll only take it if I'm cool enough to get invited.
For anyone who has argued how Playstation+ isn't worth having because "don't care about the free games or demos and the only thing worth having is cross game chat" or something like that, you have just proven why Sony's online model is better than Microsoft's, not that Microsoft's is better.
You don't HAVE to pay for Playstation+... you've GOTTA pay for Live.
Where I live due to factors such as my xbox's geographical location the service is extremely poor, and the small $50 fee isn't worth it.
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