Worth Reading: 05/23/2014

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generic_username

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Wait, why is Far Cry 4 racist? Did I miss some infos, I only saw the cover up till now.

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Little_Socrates

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My nervousness on the Far Cry 4 art has nothing to do with race relations. Everyone I saw getting mad was simply terrified he'd either be an extremely homophobic depiction of a non-heteronormative villain or an extremely xenophobic depiction of the "foreign charmer" stereotype.

Personally, the best-case-scenario I see is that he's from a K-Pop boy-band style outfit and the fashion design is basically ignored.

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Little_Socrates

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@marokai: I honestly prefer modern Sessler quite a bit. He's fallible, he's extremely opinionated, and he's finally interesting for more than laughs.

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MooseyMcMan

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#54  Edited By MooseyMcMan

My nervousness on the Far Cry 4 art has nothing to do with race relations. Everyone I saw getting mad was simply terrified he'd either be an extremely homophobic depiction of a non-heteronormative villain or an extremely xenophobic depiction of the "foreign charmer" stereotype.

Personally, the best-case-scenario I see is that he's from a K-Pop boy-band style outfit and the fashion design is basically ignored.

How did you even think of that first one? (The homophobic one).

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Asiwassaying

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I think Americans should just take a chill pill before pointing fingers at Canadians regarding racism...

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joshwent

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Psychedeliholic

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Anyone who looks at the Far Cry art and doesn't see the potential racial/sexual issues implied therein is in serious need of remedial art history instruction.

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Buttbear

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Crusader Kings II makes so much more sense if you think of it as an initially complicated personal story creator. Do it Scoops!

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@psychedeliholic said:

Anyone who looks at the Far Cry art and doesn't see the potential racial/sexual issues implied therein is in serious need of remedial art history instruction.

Doing so at this point is literally judging something based on its cover. The irony of this from some people astonishes me.

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Psychedeliholic

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I'm not judging shit, nor am I in any way offended by the art. My point is that the racial and sexual implications are OBVIOUS and INTENTIONAL and recognizing that does not mean you're a "SJW" or "PC Policeman".

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Little_Socrates

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@grantheaslip: @mooseymcman: I saw that comment from someone else first, honestly, so I can't claim ownership. And I didn't say I think they are going to create a homophobic character, I'm NERVOUS they're going to make a homophobic character. The last game's only homosexual character was a rapist-psychopath, and then his rape victim is basically just acquired as "part of your friend-crew" and the issue never comes up again. Considering the numerous race issues in Far Cry 3 detailed countless times circa the Game of the Year 2012 period, forgive me for being nervous that they might be insensitive once more.

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Hailinel

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I'm not judging shit, nor am I in any way offended by the art. My point is that the racial and sexual implications are OBVIOUS and INTENTIONAL and recognizing that does not mean you're a "SJW" or "PC Policeman".

How are they either?

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Psychedeliholic

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@hailinel: It's just basic imagery man. Really surface level stuff compared to other mediums.

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Hailinel

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@hailinel: It's just basic imagery man. Really surface level stuff compared to other mediums.

Or maybe you're just reading too much into it. As @marokai said above, you are literally judging a book (or in this case, game) by it's cover. That is ridiculous.

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Psychedeliholic

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#67  Edited By Psychedeliholic

@hailinel Nah, I just refuse to stick my head in the sand over this stuff. I'm not even saying it'll be handled poorly (although it arguably already has been), just that race and sexuality will be themes the game explores. It's not a mindless doodle, give the artist some credit.

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Make_Me_Mad

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It'd be real easy for me to read some of the stuff that goes down in Transistor in such a way that makes me think Supergiant games is a bit sexist; the problem is that I actually think about things before I complain about them, and it's pretty obvious that Red isn't meant to represent ALL female characters, just like dude-in-farcry-4-poster isn't representing all people who enjoy flashy suits and being evil. Characters, most of the time, are just characters; not some kind of weird lens to show how a group of people are viewed.

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Corevi

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He's a bad dude, bad dudes gonna be bad dudes and do bad things. You are supposed to want to stop him from doing bad things. It seems to be working.

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Psychedeliholic

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He's a bad dude, bad dudes gonna be bad dudes and do bad things. You are supposed to want to stop him from doing bad things. It seems to be working.

woah woah woah, tak'er easy there Mister GameXplain.

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BeyondStrange

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#71  Edited By BeyondStrange

@lurkero said:

Anyone who paid attention to the plot of Far Cry 3 should very much be concerned about the imagery of the Far Cry 4 cover. I won't jump to conclusions until I actually witness the plot, but the previous Far Cry games do not provide confidence that the fourth one will be much better. I think the protagonist is a native of the region this time so that at least provides some positive belief against the "helpless natives" needing to be saved by the "European White male" just passing through.

I can see the logic in this way of thinking, but the little information we actually know about the game neutralizes these speculations. This game is being crafted by a different team than Far Cry 3. On top of that, the director is Alex Hutchinson, who also directed Assassin's Creed 3. Now, that game was kind of a mess, but it did handle race relations more tactfully than most games. The game was super sympathetic towards Native Americans and critical of both the British and the Colonists. Hell, the game even accused George Washington of maliciously burning down Native American villages.

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Corevi

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@psychedeliholic: Just saying that having the main bad guy be racist doesn't seem all that bad since presumably you murder him in cold blood like every other villain in a videogame.

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Draxyle

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Ooh, Crusader Kings 2, excellent choice. I would be quite delighted if you brought that out in a Spelunky-like daily manner.

I'd offer you assistance with learning that, but even with a hundred hours under my belt I still feel like I'm flailing around with a lot of the mechanics. It's a good thing the game has no win condition other than to continue your lineage.

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musubi

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I might just be entirely oblivious here but I'm not sure what is controversial about that Farcry 4 cover.

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Video_Game_King

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I might just be entirely oblivious here but I'm not sure what is controversial about that Farcry 4 cover.

It's evidence of Far Cry 4. That's controversy enough.

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Hailinel

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I might just be entirely oblivious here but I'm not sure what is controversial about that Farcry 4 cover.

I think people are just reading into it too much and are jumping to conclusions regarding the game's themes and direction based entirely on that image and the way that Far Cry 3 turned out.

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Crysack

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@r3dt1d3 said:

The reaction to the Far Cry 4 cover saddens me. Guess what, it's a light skinned guy subverting the locals. Far Cry 3 was the exact same thing after a point in the story. No one had a problem with Hoyt, that I noticed, but this character we know nothing about and the scenario he is depicted in is too far?

Despite the fact that Kotaku and the like still haven't realised this, the antagonist in the pink suit isn't actually a white dude. If they had bothered to do their research, they'd realise that a plot summary has been leaked on Uplay, and I quote:

'Hidden in the majestic Himalayas lies Kyrat, a country steeped in tradition and violence. You are Ajay Ghale. Traveling to Kyrat to fulfill your mother's dying wish, you find yourself caught up in a civil war to overthrow the oppressive regime of dictator Pagan Min.'

tl;dr the antagonist is Burmese and the protagonist is most likely Nepalese.

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GreggD

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#78  Edited By GreggD

@crysack said:

@r3dt1d3 said:

The reaction to the Far Cry 4 cover saddens me. Guess what, it's a light skinned guy subverting the locals. Far Cry 3 was the exact same thing after a point in the story. No one had a problem with Hoyt, that I noticed, but this character we know nothing about and the scenario he is depicted in is too far?

Despite the fact that Kotaku and the like still haven't realised this, the antagonist in the pink suit isn't actually a white dude. If they had bothered to do their research, they'd realise that a plot summary has been leaked on Uplay, and I quote:

'Hidden in the majestic Himalayas lies Kyrat, a country steeped in tradition and violence. You are Ajay Ghale. Traveling to Kyrat to fulfill your mother's dying wish, you find yourself caught up in a civil war to overthrow the oppressive regime of dictator Pagan Min.'

tl;dr the antagonist is Burmese and the protagonist is most likely Nepalese.

Boom.

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Milkman

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My issue with the Far Cry 4 box art is that it looks like shit. Seriously, there is way too much going on in that image. It's ridiculous.

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TheHT

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@greggd said:

@crysack said:

@r3dt1d3 said:

The reaction to the Far Cry 4 cover saddens me. Guess what, it's a light skinned guy subverting the locals. Far Cry 3 was the exact same thing after a point in the story. No one had a problem with Hoyt, that I noticed, but this character we know nothing about and the scenario he is depicted in is too far?

Despite the fact that Kotaku and the like still haven't realised this, the antagonist in the pink suit isn't actually a white dude. If they had bothered to do their research, they'd realise that a plot summary has been leaked on Uplay, and I quote:

'Hidden in the majestic Himalayas lies Kyrat, a country steeped in tradition and violence. You are Ajay Ghale. Traveling to Kyrat to fulfill your mother's dying wish, you find yourself caught up in a civil war to overthrow the oppressive regime of dictator Pagan Min.'

tl;dr the antagonist is Burmese and the protagonist is most likely Nepalese.

Boom.

Goddamnit I can't believe this was a thing.

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Psychedeliholic

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@theht: The kotaku piece actually does acknowledge that, not sure if they edited it in later or not.

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zFUBARz

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@patrickklepek You damn well better do a Crusader Kings 2 feature. The fact that Idle Thumbs bailed out after a few nights still bugs me.

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Oldirtybearon

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#83  Edited By Oldirtybearon

@generic_username said:

@abendlaender said:

Wait, why is Far Cry 4 racist? Did I miss some infos, I only saw the cover up till now.

It's racist because everyone looked at the cover and assumed "white European man" when in reality the villain is a hyper flamboyant Burmese.

It's also homophobic because wearing loud colours with garish hair is a sign of homosexuality. Not, you know, eccentricity.

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bradgrenz

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I hope the protagonist of Far Cry 4 turns out to be a gay woman of color so everyone's heads explode.

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abendlaender

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@generic_username said:

@abendlaender said:

Wait, why is Far Cry 4 racist? Did I miss some infos, I only saw the cover up till now.

It's racist because everyone looked at the cover and assumed "white European man" when in reality the villain is a hyper flamboyant Burmese.

It's also homophobic because wearing loud colours with garish hair is a sign of homosexuality. Not, you know, eccentricity.

Even if he were a white european....isn't he the bad guy anyway? I mean....the bad guys can be racist right? They are, well....the bad guys. You're not supposed to like them. That's why they do bad things. Right? Right?
Did anybody complain that the Nazis in Wolfenstein were racist? Cause I'm pretty sure they are.

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Oldirtybearon

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#86  Edited By Oldirtybearon

@abendlaender said:

@oldirtybearon said:

@generic_username said:

@abendlaender said:

Wait, why is Far Cry 4 racist? Did I miss some infos, I only saw the cover up till now.

It's racist because everyone looked at the cover and assumed "white European man" when in reality the villain is a hyper flamboyant Burmese.

It's also homophobic because wearing loud colours with garish hair is a sign of homosexuality. Not, you know, eccentricity.

Even if he were a white european....isn't he the bad guy anyway? I mean....the bad guys can be racist right? They are, well....the bad guys. You're not supposed to like them. That's why they do bad things. Right? Right?

Did anybody complain that the Nazis in Wolfenstein were racist? Cause I'm pretty sure they are.

You should probably check your privilege and remember that it's not my job to educate you.

I should probably mention somewhere that this is what happens when an entire generation is raised to believe that feelings are more important than critical thinking. A lot of the people offended by this (and indeed are likely addicted to feeling oppressed) have no idea what "context" means. So while, yes, you're totally correct in assuming that villains should be villainous you have to remember that Americans with their "millennials" are overtly sensitive and absolutely shun confrontation.

I shouldn't say all Americans, however. It's mostly contained in wealthy, affluent, and predominately white suburbs/gentrified city centers.

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SpaceInsomniac

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#87  Edited By SpaceInsomniac

@marokai said:

@psychedeliholic said:

Anyone who looks at the Far Cry art and doesn't see the potential racial/sexual issues implied therein is in serious need of remedial art history instruction.

Doing so at this point is literally judging something based on its cover. The irony of this from some people astonishes me.

With people looking to find something offensive in just about everything lately--at this point, even extending into things that could be in a video game--I can't say that I'm too surprised. I'm also not surprised that this non-issue made it into one of Patrick's articles.

@greggd said:

@crysack said:

@r3dt1d3 said:

The reaction to the Far Cry 4 cover saddens me. Guess what, it's a light skinned guy subverting the locals. Far Cry 3 was the exact same thing after a point in the story. No one had a problem with Hoyt, that I noticed, but this character we know nothing about and the scenario he is depicted in is too far?

Despite the fact that Kotaku and the like still haven't realised this, the antagonist in the pink suit isn't actually a white dude. If they had bothered to do their research, they'd realise that a plot summary has been leaked on Uplay, and I quote:

'Hidden in the majestic Himalayas lies Kyrat, a country steeped in tradition and violence. You are Ajay Ghale. Traveling to Kyrat to fulfill your mother's dying wish, you find yourself caught up in a civil war to overthrow the oppressive regime of dictator Pagan Min.'

tl;dr the antagonist is Burmese and the protagonist is most likely Nepalese.

Boom.

Boom indeed. It means nothing though. Every aspect of Far Cry 4 will be put under a microscope by social justice bloggers. There is no way to win.

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WacWam

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I thought the guy on the cover looked like a young Anderson Cooper that rummaged through a trunk filled with Japanese/Korean boy band outfits.

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Draugen

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@little_socrates: Wouldn't it make way more sense to wait until we know *anything* about the game before jumping to those kinds of awful scenarios? I see no reason to assume Ubisoft Montreal would be make an "extremely homophobic" character, and I frankly think it's a bit insulting to speculate about the degree to which the game's writers might be monsters without any evidence to back it up.

Are you mad? This is the internet. We don't have time to wait for context or facts! You can't be first to slam something as insensitive, if you have to wait to see what you're actually critizising. Take a leap of faith. There are no consequenses for being wrong.

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SpaceInsomniac

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tl;dr the antagonist is Burmese and the protagonist is most likely Nepalese.

Boom.

Boom indeed. It means nothing though. Every aspect of Far Cry 4 will be put under a microscope by social justice bloggers. There is no way to win.

Patrick disappoints me when he chimes in on stuff like this. He should be smarter than that; But as long as he and others keep putting things on the internet knowing that their every word is being judged, they will continue to play it safe.

That can be read a couple of different ways, but I'm assuming you mean the following: As long as bloggers are hypercritical of female and minority video game characters, we're going to continue to see game developers "play it safe" more often than not, when it comes time to design their characters.

"knowing that their every word is being judged" refers to developers, not bloggers, right?

If that's what you meant, then yes, I think you're right. It's a sad type of catch-22 when it comes to this topic.

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AlexanderSheen

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#92  Edited By AlexanderSheen

This Far Cry 4 controversy bullshit is getting out of control.

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Crusader Kings is a great game that I think you would make fine content with, but you really don't want to record yourself going in blind.

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BrassHi

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@patrickklepek after reading Brendan Sinclair's article about the Far Cry 4 cover I agreed in general with the point he was trying to make, that games have to handle delicate material in a mature manner. However, Brendan using this cover to make a point about the difficulty Far Cry has with handling race makes it seem like he was attributing qualities to it that were simply not there. Using a cover that most people didn't find in any way racist weakened what is a legitimate argument.

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deactivated-5b43dadb9061b

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This Far Cry 4 controversy bullshit is getting out of control.

This type of crap is only going to get worse.

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amafi

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@patrickklepek: Man, crusader kings 2 is such a scary game. I love it, but learning it is kind of rough.

Not sure I'd recommend filming the first few hours of looking at it. Also consider looking up some video tutorials on the basics on youtube, there are some really good ones. Personally I found Crusader kings 2 101 very helpful for getting started.

The CK2 Wiki also has a lot of very good information.

Good luck.

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MooseyMcMan

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@joshwent:

Well, as a member of the LGBT community, and a fan of Saints Row, I'll say that I'm offended that his clothing (which looks purple to me) would be associated with that. (I'm not actually offended.)

@grantheaslip: I saw that comment from someone else first, honestly, so I can't claim ownership. And I didn't say I think they are going to create a homophobic character, I'm NERVOUS they're going to make a homophobic character. The last game's only homosexual character was a rapist-psychopath, and then his rape victim is basically just acquired as "part of your friend-crew" and the issue never comes up again. Considering the numerous race issues in Far Cry 3 detailed countless times circa the Game of the Year 2012 period, forgive me for being nervous that they might be insensitive once more.

Despite playing Far Cry 3 to completion, I can happily say that I remember so little about the story that I had completely forgotten about anything rape-related. I do remember the jokes about how people just assumed the German guy was evil.

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edmundus

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Crusader Kings 2 would be excellent for a regular feature.

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DedBeet

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@patrickklepek:

Coming to define what my role is at Giant Bomb, a website built on collaboration, has been tough. Not everything has worked.

I think it's remarkable how much has worked, especially since you've only been out of the office for a year. Seeing you and the site adapt to your departure gives me great hope for GBNY.

Yeah, I've been pretty blown away by how much content has come out of Chicago. Patrick has defined what the role of the offsite Bomber should be. It'll be interesting to see how Vinny and Alex rise to the challenge Patrick has presented.

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@hailinel: I don't really count the MMOs as main entries to be honest.

And even without Nomura the soulless, plasticy Jpop style of the characters is ever present. That's not just a problem of the Final Fantasy series either...