Problems with the Faces

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joshth

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#101  Edited By joshth

I'm really hoping that either this is something the internet is completely over blowing, that I personally won't be that bothered by it, or that it can be fixed with some kind of patch. The eyes are the thing that's killing me, the way they just stare off into space and don't convey anything. As some have said above me, it makes places that are supposed to be meaningful glances into supremely awkward pauses.

I'm keeping my preorder because Mass Effect is one of my favorite series, but god I hope this isn't going to be a problem for me.

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Luchalma

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#102  Edited By Luchalma

Im with Brad when I say yeah it's disappointing it's technically a mess, but I play Mass Effect for story and characters. What I've seen is not impressing me in the least, but it's a long game. I'll wait and hear what the word is after release.

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Brendan

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Man, even if the most optimistic in this thread are correct and the animations aren't bad, I was hoping this game would be top tier for facial animations and character writing. If the game largely looks like what has been shown in this thread then they all look like creepy androids lost in the uncanny valley.

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Dan_Rob_Campbell

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Because we all know that's why people play Mass Effect. For the animations. All about dem animations. Jesus....

Yes, they are not good, but why do the gaming masses always latch on to the negative. Why does it seem like the entire game-o-sphere just wants to shit on everything these days. They go hunting for the negative, find it and crucify the game for it. It used to be a very small number of people, then it was a very vocal minority. Now it seems like the vast majority of people have turned into terrible cynical people. :-( If this keeps up, if people keep crucifying games at every step, we are going to get less people willing to make games because they know every little flaw will the the tinder their game is burned on.

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anbilow

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#105  Edited By anbilow

From what I've seen so far I'm pretty disappointed, but it won't stop me from playing or enjoying the game. My ire is ultimately directed at Bioware. Who saw this and said "Yea, that's ok"??? This certainly needed more time in the oven, or maybe even a change in whoever was in charge of these issues.

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JRM

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@dan_rob_campbell: A little dramatic there my man, the 'cynical about everything' crowd is still very much the minority. This newest Mass Effect is getting shit on because it looks, to put it mildly, pretty underwhelming as the next game in a gigantic franchise.

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dOm_CaTz

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#107  Edited By dOm_CaTz

I don't know why this is blowing up as much as it is. Broken ass facial animations(and janky animations in general) are a staple in open world rpg's. I can point to any open world rpg ever and find some janky stuff.

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keddren

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I'm a few hours in. The uproar is completely overblown.

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mrfluke

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of anything, this might be the most damning gif for Andromeda,

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burncoat

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@dan_rob_campbell: Problem is nobody is nitpicking side stories or doing some deep diving to find these. From the very first footage EA put out people instantly noticed that the characters didn't look so hot. The writing being bad and not up to par from the start is also a very big red flag.

Bioware and EA dropping the ball isn't new and you shouldn't take it so personally. I don't know how developers who didn't work on and green light this game would be affected by the bad press and poor reception. Absolute worse case scenario is Andromeda gets bad reviews, bad sales, and EA axes Bioware, being another developer in a long line of studios that EA acquired and dismantled, another example of why partnering with EA could come to bite people in the ass.

And as was stated before, animations and characters in Mass Effect games looked better on older consoles, hardware, and software. It's not a valid excuse at this point to say "They've always been like this." What little we've seen would be met with the same amount of skepticism and negativity if all of this footage followed ME3.

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mrcraggle

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#111  Edited By mrcraggle

@dom_catz: That's just deflecting. Just because other games do a poor job, doesn't mean it's ok for other games too. The Mass Effect series has always been a very talky series and even compared to the previous games, the animation is somehow worse (just check out the gif from ME1 vs Andromeda posted in this thread). I don't think being held to a standard is an issue when you're paying £50 for it.

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Luchalma

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Because we all know that's why people play Mass Effect. For the animations. All about dem animations. Jesus....

Yes, they are not good, but why do the gaming masses always latch on to the negative. Why does it seem like the entire game-o-sphere just wants to shit on everything these days. They go hunting for the negative, find it and crucify the game for it. It used to be a very small number of people, then it was a very vocal minority. Now it seems like the vast majority of people have turned into terrible cynical people. :-( If this keeps up, if people keep crucifying games at every step, we are going to get less people willing to make games because they know every little flaw will the the tinder their game is burned on.

Look. I get that good vibes and positivity are more pleasant and comfortable, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with criticism. Even harsh criticism. EA is not a mom and pop publisher, and Bioware is not three guys in a basement. They can do better. They should do better. And if people complain and get the message across, maybe they will next time.

Maybe it's all overblown. Maybe the game comes out and it's awesome, in spite of the problems. And if it is, you'll see a lot of the hate disappear. All we have now if first impressions. And while they definitely matter, they can change.

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dOm_CaTz

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@mrcraggle: I'm not saying its ok for ME:A to have janky things. But it's like people just discovered that janky things exist in video games and its getting taken to ridiculous levels.

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Bedouin

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This was the first thing that came to mind.

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Lv4Monk

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"I don't care about facial animations, I care about engaging with the characters!"

What?

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mrcraggle

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#116  Edited By mrcraggle

@dan_rob_campbell: Oh yea, I love it when the sequel in a franchise I previously really liked looks like shit. Give me a break. This is a game where you talk to people. That's what the franchise is. It might not have been the best in facial animation in the original trilogy but it didn't stand out for being so bad because that was 10, 7 and 5 years ago on old hardware and an old engine. This shit looks worse than their previous efforts.

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Luchalma

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No Caption Provided

Saw this from NeoGAF. Just a simple change but makes a HUGE difference in how the character comes across (space zombie/human). How could the developers not do something so simple? This doesn't appear to be a no-name NPC.

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mrcraggle

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@luchalma said:
No Caption Provided

Saw this from NeoGAF. Just a simple change but makes a HUGE difference in how the character comes across (space zombie/human). How could the developers not do something so simple? This doesn't appear to be a no-name NPC.

I found a similar edit online but of Sara Ryder and decided I'd have a go myself.

No Caption Provided

The 2 left images are my own edits. The first is just an edit of the original face and the second is with added lighting for stylised effect and then the right images explain themselves. The edit I made wasn't even that drastic despite the look. I made her nose slightly longer, added some shine and brought it in and I felt like her face was distorted, like it was a close up photo taken with a wide angle lens so I fixed that and made small changes to the eyes.

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AdequatelyPrepared

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@dan_rob_campbell: Because this unending cynicism is why a lot of people are thinking that this opening quarter/third of 2017 is one of the best periods for game releases in recent memory right?

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Efesell

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#120  Edited By Efesell

After playing a bit of the trial I can definitely see the jank and yeah they should definitely fuckin' do better in 2017 for such a flagship franchise but I'm also already paying less and less attention to it as I just play the game.

It's also no worse than Horizon so I don't think it'll present me with much of a problem.

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zaccheus

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#121  Edited By zaccheus

Nobody has played the previous games in a long time and think that a 100 hour RPG should have Uncharted 4 quality face animations, which is obviously impossible. I played maby four hours yeasterday and it didn't bother me at all. The voice acting was mostly good too. I'd say it's on par with the previous games which also had some awful shit in them, both animations and voice acting.

This to me seems to be one of those internet things, mob mentality and all that. It's unfair, but I'm glad its just a game and not a person in this case. I can't wait to play more myself.

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Vortextk

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@luchalma said:
No Caption Provided

Saw this from NeoGAF. Just a simple change but makes a HUGE difference in how the character comes across (space zombie/human). How could the developers not do something so simple? This doesn't appear to be a no-name NPC.

This is not about mob mentality, or internet trolling or bitterness. Not only. I never beat 2, I loved it though. I never played 3. I'm not at all interested in andromeda for the time being, I mean I "am" interested but not enough to buy it anytime soon, but this seems unacceptable.

Look at that little edit. A tiny thing made that still shot so so much better. Now fix her make up, it looks like a four year old snuck into mom's make up drawer, and make SOMETHING ON HER FACE ANIMATE BESIDES JUST HER LIPS and it's fucking fine.

Here's the thing, it doesn't sound like anyone is going "this isn't 100% perfect, fuck mass effect". It's that it doesn't even look like they're trying. That's not true, someone tried a whole hell of a lot, but they failed and this should be better. It should be passable. Not in the "I can ignore it" passable, but atleast decent.

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Maddman60620

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I've been playing Bioware games since the Neverwinter Nights days, the idle and face animations have pretty much been the same since KOTOR and Neverwinter 2. I don't really get why everyone is acting like this is some deal breaker of the game since they were never known for the killer visuals and animations in the first place. I looks like it's on par with DA:I and better than ME3 from what I seen so far and the gameplay, world, and story are really what makes a Bioware game good I my opinion....

Guys seriously, have you ever Biowared dudes?

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Solh0und

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#124  Edited By Solh0und

I've played a few hours with a custom Sh...Ryder so far. Havent ran into the issues other than Cora's "Vince McMahon impression".

It seems to be more of a default face problem than anything.

Also, has anyone really mentioned that this is a series that moved from UE 2-3 to Frostbite? Of course there are gonna be issues.

DA: Inquisition's launch wasn't pretty either. Sure it wasn't unplayable by any stretch but it had quite a bit of bugs at launch.

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JRM

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#125  Edited By JRM

@maddman60620: Not being personally bothered by the way the game looks or moves (to say nothing of the writing) is fine and you're obviously completely entitled to your opinion. If you've made it all the way through this thread, as well as the GB dude's stream, and can't see why some folks could be disappointed then...*shrugs*

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Efesell

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#126  Edited By Efesell

Wow the other presets/custom characters do not seem nearly as fucked up as the defaults.

That's...odd, but welcome?

Maybe just give up on basing characters on actual people cause they never seem to succeed at it.

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subracore

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Wow, playing through the Witcher 3 at the beginning of this year really did no favors for Horizon: Zero Dawn or Mass Effect: Andromeda.

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Mass Effect is definitely my favorite series of the last generation and I still think Bioware did a fantastic job in the first and especially in the second making character conversations dynamic, including great camera work and character animation. It felt like such a step above the locked in, npc staring at you while spouting lore and not emoting present in Bethesda RPGs and many other contemporaries. But from playing the first couple hours of Andromeda it doesn't even compare favorably to the previous entries in the series, much less games coming out in 2017. Horizon has its issues with lip syncing but Aloy at least reads as a human being rather than a dead eyed mannequin awkwardly acting out every scene. The romance scenes have got to be amazing in this one for sure.

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WynnDuffy

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#128  Edited By WynnDuffy

@solh0und said:

Also, has anyone really mentioned that this is a series that moved from UE 2-3 to Frostbite? Of course there are gonna be issues.

I don't see how this matters, Andromeda was built for Frostbite, not ported from Unreal

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Marz

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the game looks great in some spots(environments can be pretty to look at), but yeah the facials are pretty stiff.... just some decent eyebrow movement can go a long way for making conversations a bit more engaging.

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OurSin_360

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#130  Edited By OurSin_360

@luchalma: i wonder if the eye texture isn't loading properly, it doesn't explain the other terrible issues but there ia no way an artist would over leave the eyes like that. Seriously, hands and eyes are the most expressive parts of a person and the most important to get right. Even if the faces had no movement you get the eyes and proportions right it still works( look at yakuza 0 cutscenes for example.

The thing that i feel is even worse are all the body proportions, all humans look 4 feet tall and all aliens but krogans and those new things look like giants.

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The_Last_Starfighter

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@dan_rob_campbell:I hear you and totally agree for the most part. I can't agree with you in the case of ME:A though, the concerns are valid because the core of the game is based on an emotional connection to the characters and story. That's Mass Effect in a nutshell, it's why every play through feels unique to the player and why everyone who played the past games cared so much for each member of their crew.

The repercussions of the decisions you make through the course of these games are dependent on the emotional investment you have towards the characters those decisions effect.

If the characters on screen can't express those emotions to the player then the whole thing comes apart at the scenes, we no longer care if core characters fall in love or if they die.

In 2017, flat, poorly written lines being delivered by emotionless puppets creates an atmosphere where the story becomes a bad joke that plays in the background while we traverse from 3rd person gunfight to 3rd person gunfight. Which basically nullifies everything that makes Mass Effect special as a series.

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IVDAMKE

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#132  Edited By IVDAMKE

@zaccheus: Standards have been raised, even DA:I as janky as it was had better facial animation than this game does. No one is expecting Uncharted 4, they're expecting better quality than a game from 10 years ago that was Mass Effect 1.

Make apologies all you want about how this is no different, or it doesn't bother you personally. Fact of the matter is it looks shit and people noticed, so they're stating that fact.

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ShadyPingu

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#133  Edited By ShadyPingu

This whole thing has been pretty crazy to watch. I suspect EA will be having some very hard discussions about how best to leverage Early Access in future, because I don't think it'll end up being a net positive for Andromeda. These are just not the conversations Bioware wants people to be having right now.

Pretty much every press hit in the last couple of days has mentioned it. Even the critics who vehemently disagree that it's an issue are still posting funny gifs to then refute. It's not even close to an Xbone level PR disaster--where I seriously think a decade from now, grad students will be reading Harvard Business Review studies about all the ways Don Mattrick fucked up--but it's still kind of a bad look.

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isomeri

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The poor animations and voice-work were more distracting for me during the trial than I'd anticipated. It's not great when in the middle of, what's supposed to be an emotional story beat, you burst out laughing because of an animation bug or dead eyes on a character.

I'm not sure what Bioware could do to fix this before release.

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LawGamer

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@isomeri said:

The poor animations and voice-work were more distracting for me during the trial than I'd anticipated. It's not great when in the middle of, what's supposed to be an emotional story beat, you burst out laughing because of an animation bug or dead eyes on a character.

I'm not sure what Bioware could do to fix this before release.

They aren't doing anything. One of the devs tweeted something to the effect that "that ship has sailed."

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Mortified_Cow

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I've played the trial on both Xbox and PC and I can say that the faces look a lot better on PC. Granted I'm running the game on ultra settings, so it would be expected that the game looks better on PC, but the higher detail makes the facial animation quality a lot more bearable (Except for Alec Ryder, who strangely looks wet all the time). All in all, this isn't really hasn't been an issue for me as I've been getting what I want out of a Mass Effect game so far. Now I've never associated Mass Effect with good animation and It's hard to forget something's. Like Shepard's weirdly stretched neck, the jarring skips during paragon/renegade interrupts, the sex scenes, the awful drinking animation, awkward dialog emotes, the sex scenes, often laughable combat animations, "Stop and Start" running animations and let us not forget the sex scenes. I guess for me it's the same argument Austin made for Fallout 4. At this point, I kinda expect the jank. Maybe not a the level we are seeing here at points, but I definitely not surprised by it. Of course, previous games are not an excuse and I understand that some people are turned off by it, but I was able to look past all the clumsy animation of the trilogy, so I'm more than willing to give Andromeda a shot. Not to mention that I think Andromeda looks really good in a lot of areas, even including some to the animations.

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section09

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@jrm: The gulf between Bioware games and other games / the competitors / whatever has never been so large in the past. The old games were a bit janky but there was clear evidence of effort put in, especially when you take the package as a whole, and ESPECIALLY when you compared it to similar games. Now put Andromeda next to Horizon / The Witcher 3 and you'll see that the team that did Andromeda dropped the ball in terms of presentation.

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malrock

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This game is the gift that just keeps on giving...

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Efesell

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@jrm: The gulf between Bioware games and other games / the competitors / whatever has never been so large in the past. The old games were a bit janky but there was clear evidence of effort put in, especially when you take the package as a whole, and ESPECIALLY when you compared it to similar games. Now put Andromeda next to Horizon / The Witcher 3 and you'll see that the team that did Andromeda dropped the ball in terms of presentation.

Witcher 3 I'll grant you but Horizon is up there fighting it out for worst faces.

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takayamasama

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@lawgamer: You are correct

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section09

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@efesell: ehh I mean at some point it's all subjective but I firmly believe at the very least that the eyes in Horizon are two generations better than those in Andromeda, although the eyes in Andromeda could be easily fixed via patch.

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splodge

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Im one of those weirdos who does not care about this kind of stuff when it provides a large amunt of comedic value, and while I havent played the game yet all the videos have me laughing. I am looking forward to delving into this galaxy of shifty eyed, chav walking mofos.

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JRM

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@efesell: That's bonkers man, the lip syncing can get a little rough but that's about it.

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mrcraggle

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@combustion_man: The eyes in Andromeda are a generation behind Mass Effect 1. In the gif above, Ashley looks so much better, it's kind of crazy.

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OurSin_360

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@malrock: to be fair i got tpose glitches worse than that in Witcher 3 lol

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Efesell

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@jrm: I dunno man Horizon faces are deep in the uncanny valley for me. These Andromeda faces are comical sometimes but I've not been dwelling on them so much.

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jay_ray

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People rallying behind the faces is annoying because that's all you hear about. I put in about 5 hours on the PC trail version and I have come away with two major points.

1) My initial impressions of the combat is very enjoyable and have a ton of potential given the combinations you can play with

2) Everything else is clunky and unpolished.

To me this game screams like Bioware really wanted to go for it and then budget and time restraints caught up so they put everything into making the combat work and flow but left everything else in an alpha state. If they had a few more months of polish they could have straightened somethings out but what I personally want out of a Mass Effect game just is only barely here.

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Crommi

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Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, it's not a good sign when just 1 day after players gained access to 10h limited trial, glitch compliations are already a big thing on Youtube.

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matteo_siderno1

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Hi guys, I have been reading a lot of impressions on ME:A. I was eagerly anticipating this game. I was ready for a day 1 purchase. I loved ME 2 and 3 and beat both 2 times (male & female shepard) with over 90 hours combined on both games. Animation & technical issues really suck. What changed my mind was hearing from many different people that the writing and the characters aren't even close to the past trilogy. That is hugely disappointing even (if) the game gets better after 10 hours. ME 2 & 3 both grabbed me after the first hour.

ME 2 was the best time i've had with any game ever i've ever played along with The Last of Us, Uncharted 2, Titanfall 2, The Batman Arkham games, & The Legend of Zelda OOT, MM, & TP. So I will reading some reviews next week. The writing, characters, & story have to be great (majority of the game) for me to buy it now.

PS, I enjoyed the combat in ME2 & 3 so that part of this game looks really fun.