GOTY but the ranking system is rubbish.

Just when i thought the witcher 3 was guaranteed to be my GOTY this marvel of a game drops, absolutely brilliant in almost every way.......except the fucking ranking system.

So i just completed "a hero's way" in the most flawless way possible, a beautifully planned and executed mission, everything was perfect, secured and scouted the outer perimeter, systematically dealt with guards, infiltrated the main building in a super sneaky tense way, got the target out alive, no alerts no reflexes no retries no mistakes, everything was just immaculate, and the rank.....a c, a fucking c because i took my time and killed three guards.

The ranking system is stupidly skewed towards just rushing and cheesing the missions since time is 80% of your final score, to the point that i just ignore it now, playing the game to get a good rank makes the game worse, i think it's a bit strange to have a ranking system in a open world game that emphasizes freedom and player choice that forces you to play in in a very specific speedrunny way.

Am i missing out on any equipment and unlocks if i don't bother with the ranks?

*Rant over*

Any ways this is my GOTY and boy will i miss kojima.

I'm completely ignoring rank the first time through, I think that is something to go back and work on later. It even says as much in the Official Guide...that you should play the game the first time the way you want to, and the way that is fun for you. Then if you wan to, go back for S ranks later on.

I don't think there are any kind of unlocks tied to rank, and my suggestion is to just ignore it for now. I am, and it's been great. I'm glad the S-Ranks are difficult to get, it will add a ton of replayability to the game for me when I'm done with the main story.

I also think MGS5 is GOTY material (enjoying the heck out of it) but in my heart of hearts I'm still giving it to Witcher 3.

Also S RANKS ARE A BITCH. I'm already a slow player when it comes to this but fuuuuuck do I have to be even slower if I want to get close to an S Rank. Then again going slow also affects your time so might as well give up on getting an S Rank at this point.

Doesn't seem like it was executed in the "most flawless way possible then", eh? ;)

Snark aside, killing 3 guards knocks a few thousand off your score by cancelling out the "no kills" bonus, but it also locks you out of the "perfect stealth" reward that gives you a significant amount of score that would no doubt make up for you taking a long time (I regularly got A's on missions depsite spending hours on a bunch of them, and got C's on a total of 2 missions that I totally borked anyway). Time seems like way less of a deal than it was in GZ, at any rate.

(Also no, rank doesn't matter at all except how much GMP you get, and you get more than enough as long as you don't want to develop 50 different handguns etc.)

@teddie: By the way, what constitutes perfect stealth? Does that mean that I'm automatically disqualified from the rank the moment a guard sees me but I was still able to take him out nonetheless before alerting other guards?

They heavily penalize killing dudes in this series, always have.

The tranq gun is really all you need... get a feel for what to aim at in that triangle above everyone's head. Beyond about 30m the tranq dart has bullet drop.

Pretty much how you have to play if you care about ranking.

I totally do want 50 different handguns! I want all the guns.

Just like Gabe Newell loves his knives, having a digital handgun collection ain't half bad.

@gaspower:Total Stealth takes reflex into account, yeah. I think the tasks listed above it on the scoreboard (no retries, no kills, no reflex and no alerts) all need to be achieved to get the Total Stealth bonus, but I'm not sure on the "No Retries" thing. That little white flare that indicates when a guy is weary of you but hasn't outright seen you doesn't factor in, though.

@Mike: Well, GMP maxes out at 5 million, and you gotta develop something to keep it below that limit ;) Honestly you should be able to develop most things with no problem, and you'll develop more things than you'll probably ever use by the end of the game.

You can definitely play perfect and clean very patiently and get S Ranks; just because there's other ways to get S Ranks doesn't somehow deteriorate from the experience; it's not like the other ways are going to get Foxhound.

@teddie: No retries is not part of Perfect Stealth and everyone should be thankful for that; just look at Mission 18 if you want to see why.

I don't think people understand that using reflex is trivializing the game, yes there's a million ways to trivialize the game but if you used reflex you don't really deserve the highest ranking in most cases (though you can still get it most of the time given the right conditions).

I never really cared about the rank, I usually play MGS games stealthy mostly because I like it and it fits the game's mechanics and story better.

With that said, I have to agree about the problems with the ranking system on this one. I've been playing most missions without killing, get killed or spotted and my ranking as been C almost all the time. I thought it was strange but I didn't really mind since I know I'm just an average player.

But then I got to mission 6, started stealthy but got spotted on the last base and went guns blazing killing everyone, died multiple times and did the complete opposite of being stealthy. I thought it was my worst performance in the game so far and then, when the ranking came, it was an A! My best rank so far was in the mission I screwed up the most and in the only mission I actually killed people!

You don't really have to care about the rank you get on the first time through, in my opinion. You get hell of GMP regardless and you can replay missions if you're really that bummed about a rank. What I care about is getting different codenames so I can get more emblem options. Since I go stealth on every mission I get FOX every time regardless of weapon choice and I'm not getting anything new for it. Haven't got Foxhound yet though and that's bumming me out, but I think I'm doing well at this game anyways since the rank I'm most consistently getting is an A.

@johnymyko: If you got a lot of headshots in that encounter that can really boost your score at the end of a mission. That could have been what pushed you up to an A in Mission 6, Your stealth runs getting Cs could have been due to how long those missions took and getting noticed in Reflex mode. Even if you take the guy out as soon as Reflex mode initiates you lose out on a huge amount to score from the Perfect Stealth, No Kills bonus.

That isn't really true for this one though, I've gotten 2 or 3 S-ranks in the game so far, all of them where I used lethal force over non-lethal since it's a lot easier to contain situations that way.

The first S-rank I got for instance, A Heroes Way I think it was, I just shot the target in the face with a sniper rifle, ran out of there, and boom, S-rank for me. Didn't infiltrate the place, didn't go for a non-kill run but got an S-rank. I feel like experimentation is A LOT more important in MGS5 than previous MGS games instead of just relying on the good old tranq gun which I really apprieciate.

Let the metal gear scanlon flow through you; Rambo that shit.

I received s ranks while violating pretty much every stealth/no kill score but I compensated with ALOT of headshots. All the ranking is based on score. So just find something to exploit the score system.

Usually if you do a perfect stealth/no kills run you get an S rank no matter how long you take.

He is right about time overriding everything else. It's better to kill everyone and get hit a dozen times and do a mission in 5 minutes than to take 40 and never be seen or even have an alert raised.

Total Stealth is forfeit under the following conditions:

- Killing people

- Activating Reflex Mode

- Activating Enemy Combat Alerts (generally followed after triggering Reflex Mode and failing to KO the guy who spotted you)

Retries have nothing to do with it. Thankfully you're not penalized for restarting from a checkpoint. You just forfeit a small bonus, a very small bonus compared to the monumental one given for total stealth, no kills.

As for the ranking system in general, I dig the hell out of it. I'm racking up S-Ranks left and right (with the occasional A or B if I monumentally fuck up), and I'm not rushing at all. Maybe OP isn't collecting on tactical takedowns and headshots? Whenever I finish an episode I have a lo of Tac-Takedowns and they add a ton to your score. It doesn't pay in this game to avoid enemies. In fact Phantom Pain seems to encourage confrontation, either by stealthy, predatory play or outright guns blazing Kill 'Em All and Let God Sort 'Em Out.

The time bonus isn't that big of a deal. So long as you don't spend hours wandering around and doing nothing while on an episode, you'll be fine. Generally each episode lasts from 30 minutes to an hour, with the odd 15-20 minute episode here and there. Without actually seeing a sample of OP's ranks on episodes I can't really tell where he's going wrong.

Foxhound doesn't require an S-Rank, only Total Stealth, No Kills completion on three or four missions (you can repeat the same mission three times). People probably conflate the S-Rank with the Foxhound codename because they tend to go together, but you can still attain that emblem so long as you fulfill the actual criteria.

As for me personally, I'm eagerly awaiting my goddamn Outer Heaven emblem.

I have got S ranks by taking my time (and I'm a very slow player in all games) while still not requiring perfect stealth (usually getting at least one reflex or alert). Figuring out what the challenges are and completing them is more enjoyable (and usually more rewarding in score) than just trying the same basic tactics for each mission. This seems significantly more forgiving and malleable than the ranking system for Ground Zeroes.

@oldirtybearon: Later in the game the enemies seem to be a bit more perceptive thus there is definitely a benefit to avoiding enemies in those cases; or at the very least not extracting literally everyone as you would early game. Also generally speaking I think not taking out every enemy feels better/more skillful, but it varies depending on the mission (most of the time you can still S Rank that way).

I hate all ranking systems in Japanese games. They always feel like they're telling me how to play, and I hate that. I don't think this game is any worse about it though.

I try to do the missions covertly, but it's also frustrating and even a bit boring to rely on sleeper holds and tranq all of the time, even if it also makes the game nicely tense. I've ended up drew scanloning, i mean run and gunning my way to the end of 3 of 2 of the 3 main missions so far. It's actually fun too but i don't like the penalty. Seems like others have said the wealth of options you have is kind of an illusion, or at least you don't get rewarded for trying alternate methods.

Also haven't gotten higher than grade b yet. Stupid chick emblem

@xchairmandrekx: It's true, some of the missions i wanted done fast were very easy when i gave up and just sprinted(mobility3) and punched.

I have like 10 S ranks, and almost all of them are from missions where I was quick and killed people. In my experience speed is of the essence to get high ranks.

@oldirtybearon: Actually speed is the biggest factor in easy S-Ranks. You can make up points in other ways BUT you can get enough points for an S Rank (130,000) simply by going fast.

The ranking is a mystery to me. Sometimes I think I do amazing and get a C and other times I think I really just winged it and get an A or sometimes even an S.

I agree that the gameplay is so amazingly fun. I'm so deep into the sideop hole that I had to start forcing myself to progress the main story missions in order to unlock stuff - and those are awesome in their own unique way.

If someone told me this is going to be Metal Gear like 10 years ago I don't think I would have believed them.

git gud

Speed is the easiest S-Rank and most given strategies out there are going to be of the go fast variety. But you shouldn't be looking at given strategies your first time through. If you aren't comfortable booking around your first time through (most people I am assuming), then don't.

Chewing the scenery in a mission is often its own reward: fultoning soldiers that are often better ranked than free roam as well as those with unique skills, finding blueprints, appreciating mission scripting, or just having fun with new tools you just developed. You can sometimes pull an S from neutralizing everybody with tactical takedowns, or completing scored bonus objectives, but best not to count on it.

@oldirtybearon: Regarding your spoiler, how do you get that? I've heard nothing about it.

@novadth: For the code words, complete Episode 46. The actual emblem itself, probably completing all episodes (all 50).

@oldirtybearon: Ah fair enough, I had the words but had seen nothing regarding the symbol. Thanks!

Sadly I have to disagree about the "Rambo it all!". I just spent the better part of an hour and a half trying, methodically and slowly, to take out the base in mission 12, holding the prisoner (who I won't name for spoilers but most people by now will have gotten that far).

And what happens when I decided to take the "lets kill everyone" approach? Why I get down to 2 guys..and then they call in re-enforcements. Not pouring in from the road, where I might catch them with C4 or land mines. Not a one-time guards from further in take up positions closer to the front. Not even a "here is a chopper full of guys dropping in" i could, maybe, shoot down.

All of those would, at least, give me the option of doing something about. instead its just "ok reinforcements on-route" and poof, 10 more guys just spawn on the map. I had that happen 5 times, and then on the 6th, they finally gave the "nope, sorry, out of reinforcements. So again, I take my time and..oh look, the next time they call in reinforcements its day so, of course, the troop supply is refreshed and another 10 guys spawn in.

I ended up basically rushing, gunfire ignored through the base..and got to play "oh hehe you don't know exactly where the entrance is, but we are gonna make sure all the enemies stand around it! Followed by.

Well, lets just say the ending to that mission was infuriating for much the same reasons. Like "ok I just did this for an hour, screw you for forcing me into a identical sequence.

All I can say is, yes I am sure there is some way I can blow up the radio or communications so reinforcements can't spawn..but playing the mission for the first time, and not seeing where that would be..well stealth is your only real option. That or abuse the fact that, aside from standing right next to someone, snake is rather hard to kill, the sprint-function is your friend..trying to over-take a major base on the other hand..ugh, waste of time.

It doesn't punsih you harshly in terms of rank (although you will have to do better in terms of completion time or headshots/takedowns/interrogations/optional objectives to make up for it if you want a high rank), but you do need to extract soldiers to keep your equipment up to snuff as the game progresses. If you're just killing everyone, always, you'll find yourself quickly underequipped (and you won't be able to play aggressively anymore because of that). So yes, it does still punish you quite harshly by making it way more difficult to play that way as you progress.

At that point it becomes a question of using the analyser, so you take out the guys with E, D or C ratings (depending on how far you are in the game obviously), and extract the good ones. Again if this thread has shown anything it's that for the first time in MGS history, the tools that it gives you are meant to be used and experimented with instead of having good players rely and tranq/total stealth and bad players on a single good assault rifle and grenades.

Being penalized for killing dudes isnt a long running staple in MGS, only Peace Walker and 5 because they added a ranking system.

@sasnake: 1-4 give you a code name at the end based on your playthrough. Kills resulted in a worse code, along with alerts, continues, health items, saves, etc.

@bladededge: Look for the little white satellite dishes! They don't get marked when you look at them with binoculars but you can set your own marker. Often there is more than one of these dishes. Destroying them will cancel out reinforcements usually.

As to rankings...

It's actually so nice of them to not count retries against you. I'm pretty sure that was not the case in PW.

I love going for the S ranks myself, and the way this is all set up actually. Every mission has multiple objectives that are designed for multiple playthroughs instead of one master run, and then you have the S rank which can be achieved a few ways itself.

Also, am I crazy or have my missions been changing slightly? One of the missions I redid recently had claymores everywhere I swear that was not the case before..

@gaspower: yes. Entering reflex mode counts as breaking perfect stealth

@geraltitude: I think you can also destry their radio equitment... I think. And yeah enemy behaviour and equitment changes to counter your specific playstyle, i.e if you infiltrate in the dark a lot they'll start wearing nightvision goggles.

I feel pretty good that my lowest rank so far is a B, but yeah I don't really enjoy ranking systems in these games very much. It feels like you are forced to play in a very specific way that discourages experimentation and makes you feel bad when you do something differently. I like how you can do whatever you want in free-roam with no consequences, it allows you to use all the weapons and weird tactics that would probably be ignored in other MGS games because they would ruin your end ranking. Saying that, it does feel great when you nail a mission and get an S-rank though.

I think the alert system is garbage, i had a guard sleeping so i wanted to pick him up and interrogate him but i couldn't do it and ended up jumping on the bed and falling off. He then pops up quick as all hell and i enter the reflex thing, but i'm a second to late because i'm stumbling over the horrible ground collision and even though i knock him out before he can say a word or make a noise the whole damn base is on alert. Like what in the fuck. Glitches like that kinda put this lower than Witcher 3 because it just ruins a perfectly good stealth run.

But yeah, i've stopped worrying about the ranking after having a couple perfect missions end up as C's because i didn't blow up all the hidden objectives and took my time doing it stealth mode.

@wefightforever: Ah, okay. Thank you sir.

Yeah the ranking system in this really is crap. It's far too time based. Also, continues don't figure into the score AT ALL beyond the zero continue bonus (which you don't need for most of the S ranks). If you guys want super easy S ranks, go non-lethal and run aggressively from point to point, ignoring the optional objectives. If you get spotted, simply restart back at your last checkpoint. It doesn't matter how many times you need to continue to achieve it as long as you get a flawless run eventually. I've altered my slower, more methodical stealth based-approach a handful of times to try this out and I've gotten an S rank every time. Meanwhile, whenever I go out of my way to fulton every enemy, pick up every item, and complete all optional objectives on a mission without triggering a single alert or using a single continue, I end up with a B, because that shit takes time. Even though that slower more more exhaustive approach is significantly harder to pull off. Dumb.

I've decided my first playthrough will be to just have fun. The max rank I got are As and it has always been from messy missions. When I take my time and end up feeling like a (Big) Boss, I seem to get a B or a C.

But yesterday I did mission 9 all guns blazing, with no stealthy ammo whatsoever, rocketing, C4ring and grenade-pumping up and down. Got an E, and had the time of my life.

I was wondering what the hell was up with the ranking since the previous mission I did M6 (an extraction) I got found out, triggered alarm and then proceeded to kill everyone guns blazing. Still got an A...

Yep, that is my exact issue with the ranking system, if you play the game using actual "tactical espionage" the game ranks you badly but if you just run through the missions using the checkpoint scamming for trial and error until you manage to cheese your way through it you get an s rank, it also tends to give you an a rank when you completely fumble a mission and go full rambo,as fun as that is sometimes it does makes the game super easy.

All of this is moot since the ranking system is completely optional, the game is brilliant just playing it the way you want, the ranking system is a nice addition for people who like that sort of thing.

Nah you do not need to be gud, you gotta play it like a sonic game for the s rank.

The trick to getting the S rank is going non lethal, having D-Dog to spot all the enemies and prisoners for you, and fultoning out all the guards you knock out so that they cannot be found or wake up and alert the rest of the guards. Try to be at least 40 meters away from other guards when extracting anything so they do not notice. Also the crouch run with the sneak suit is good enough unless in the direct line of sight of a guard.

At the start I was getting C and B ranks, but once you get a bit of gear and you learn the extent of the guards field of view (I have come to the conclusion that everyone in the MGS universe is near sighted except for the player character) it gets ridiculously easy to get around. The only times that things go wrong when you have D-Dog spotting is when you are getting overconfident.