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#1 Posted by Krullban (1470 posts) -

Everything about this game is strange. First Hayter not being Snake, also Kiefer voicing 3 different characters, 2 of which have hidden faces. Ishmael with bandages and the medic has his face strategically hidden in every shot. Plus, taking the medics model from the PC version shows that he basically looks exactly like Big Boss. Plus in Ground Zeroes Miller lying to Snake about not knowing about Paz's true intentions when he already told him in Peace Walker that he knew everything from the beginning and he was the one that brought her in.

I'm subscribing to the theory of there being more than 1 Big Boss, and the one we play as is part of the genome project or something and is being tricked into thinking that he's Big Boss. We already know that Ocelot and Miller are both working for Zero, and Ocelot said he would help Zero with the genome project.

Kojima is gonna Kojima us I feel.

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#2 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -

Fuck all the conspiracy theories about this game. They are all garbage and operate on an idealized version of Kojima that only exists to fuck with you, rather than the truth that he just makes video games.

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#3 Posted by Krullban (1470 posts) -

@corevi said:

Fuck all the conspiracy theories about this game. They are all garbage and operate on an idealized version of Kojima that only exists to fuck with you.

Like he doesn't? He literally revealed the game with fake trailers for a new IP, with a fake developer, where he went to events wearing a mask with bandages around it saying he got into an injury.

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#4 Posted by MagnusGman (24 posts) -

I would love to find out that we're actually playing as Decoy Octopus. But after going back and watching the first couple of trailers again tonight, I'd have to say I agree with you. Especially in the second trailer when Kaz looks over Boss to the camera, and says "What about him?"

Kojima is a massive troll.

No Caption Provided

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#5 Posted by probablytuna (5006 posts) -
No Caption Provided
Sort of? Not really.
Sort of? Not really.

I don't buy into the idea that there are more than one Big Boss. Not sure why Sutherland voiced the Medic or Ishmael, maybe it's misdirection, maybe not, either way the possibilities are endless until the game finally comes out. As revealed in MGS4, Ocelot was always on Big Boss' side, but maintaining his role with the Patriots to ensure him and Eva can succeed in their plan to take down Zero. I don't think Ocelot is going to betray Big Boss in Phantom Pain. I'm guessing Miller was incredibly remorseful for bringing Paz in and doing business with Zero, which is why Big Boss didn't kick him out after Peace Walker, I don't know I never got the true ending and what not in PW.

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#6 Edited by pcorb (681 posts) -

Nope:

Loading Video...

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#7 Posted by Krullban (1470 posts) -
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#8 Posted by ThePhantomStranger (569 posts) -

Also Chico is Psycho Mantis because ears or something!

Half of that PythonSelkan theory video, he recently put out a 2 hour one, is total nonsense and another fourth of it is needless filler. What a world we live in where it's Kojima's fans that need the editor now and not Kojima!

There will probably be a big crazy reveal in Phantom Pain but it'll be more interesting to see to what end it is for then what the reveal actually is. Pre-MGS4 Kojima always had a theme or purpose to his antics so if there is a gotcha I'm more interested in the motivation behind it.

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#9 Edited by koolaid (1432 posts) -

I for one never understood how Big Boss came back from the dead at the end of MGS 4. Could that have something to do with it? I mean, is this whole things gonna be the big reveal on how/why Big Boss is evil?

Part of the weirdness of the MGS story has always been that it seems like some huge linchpins of the saga have been based off two NES games that most of us haven't played. Like, I was told that Big Boss was evil, and that I fought and killed him in those games. But the future games are revealing that wasn't true? I guess what I am trying to say is that prequels always seem to change your perspective on the original story. But in this case, the original story is a NES game that frankly didn't tell a great story! That's weird!

Though I already know the answer to my questions. And that answer is nanomachines.

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#10 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -

@koolaid: 1. They are MSX games not NES. 2. The way Big Boss died in MG2 is super dumb and it's entirely possible he could have lived from it. 3. Metal Gear 2 for the MSX actually does have a good story, especially for the time.

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#11 Posted by N7 (4159 posts) -

Also Chico is Psycho Mantis because ears or something!

Half of that PythonSelkan theory video, he recently put out a 2 hour one, is total nonsense and another fourth of it is needless filler. What a world we live in where it's Kojima's fans that need the editor now and not Kojima!

There will probably be a big crazy reveal in Phantom Pain but it'll be more interesting to see to what end it is for then what the reveal actually is. Pre-MGS4 Kojima always had a theme or purpose to his antics so if there is a gotcha I'm more interested in the motivation behind it.

I haven't been into the whole "theory" game in a long time because they are usually too stupid, but a while ago I was reading on /v/ that Python started out as a troll but people actually started to believe his BS and so he decided to keep going and get crazier. Then, people kept believing him and now we're here, where people actually believe Ground Zeroes was a simulation and it was really Gray Fox the whole time because... Snake's shadow doesn't have hair.

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#12 Posted by probablytuna (5006 posts) -

@koolaid: Basically, he never died in MG2, but was kept alive and induced into a comatose state, EVA and Ocelot secretly planned and recovered his body from Zero and rebuilt him using both Liquid's and Solidus' body parts.

I still don't think Big Boss is going to turn into a villain in Phantom Pain, specifically because of what you said. Everything from MGS3 onwards has portrayed Big Boss as nothing but a good but tortured soul who is morally and ideologically opposite of Zero, the true villain of the series. Maybe he'll do questionable things, but Big Boss will more likely be a misunderstood anti-hero who's trying to use Diamond Dogs, Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land to take down Zero but is instead taken out by Solid Snake as manipulated by Zero.

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#13 Posted by probablytuna (5006 posts) -

@krullban said:

Plus in Ground Zeroes Miller lying to Snake about not knowing about Paz's true intentions when he already told him in Peace Walker that he knew everything from the beginning and he was the one that brought her in.

I read about the conversation where Miller confesses to Big Boss in Peace Walker, but I don't remember him lying in Ground Zeroes, do you have a video source?

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#14 Edited by Krullban (1470 posts) -

@probablytuna said:

@krullban said:

Plus in Ground Zeroes Miller lying to Snake about not knowing about Paz's true intentions when he already told him in Peace Walker that he knew everything from the beginning and he was the one that brought her in.

I read about the conversation where Miller confesses to Big Boss in Peace Walker, but I don't remember him lying in Ground Zeroes, do you have a video source?

He says something along the lines of how Paz fooled them. and " I can't believe we ever bought that cover story" which makes no sense for him to say, because he already confessed to Big Boss that he knew the whole time.

Edit: I found the exact quote in game, but no video.

"The rain was coming down just as hard the day we met Paz. "I only want peace for my country." I can't believe we ever bought that cover story. After Paz tried to steal Zeke from us, and we watched her get pulled beneath the waves... There was one thing I kept asking myself. Which was the real Paz and which was the lie?"

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#15 Posted by gamefreak9 (2877 posts) -

Looking at this thread kind of makes me feel like I forgot everything about MG story...

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#16 Posted by probablytuna (5006 posts) -
@krullban said:

@probablytuna said:

@krullban said:

Plus in Ground Zeroes Miller lying to Snake about not knowing about Paz's true intentions when he already told him in Peace Walker that he knew everything from the beginning and he was the one that brought her in.

I read about the conversation where Miller confesses to Big Boss in Peace Walker, but I don't remember him lying in Ground Zeroes, do you have a video source?

He says something along the lines of how Paz fooled them. and " I can't believe we ever bought that cover story" which makes no sense for him to say, because he already confessed to Big Boss that he knew the whole time.

Edit: I found the exact quote in game, but no video.

"The rain was coming down just as hard the day we met Paz. "I only want peace for my country." I can't believe we ever bought that cover story. After Paz tried to steal Zeke from us, and we watched her get pulled beneath the waves... There was one thing I kept asking myself. Which was the real Paz and which was the lie?"


Might be an oversight on the writing more than anything, since like you said, he already confessed to Big Boss in Peace Walker.

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#19 Posted by csl316 (14928 posts) -

God dammit, I was kind of looking forward to MGSV, but Scanlon 3 and the release date announcement and that fucking collector's edition arm are getting me more hyped for any game since Halo 3.

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#20 Posted by Karkarov (3385 posts) -

@krullban said:

"The rain was coming down just as hard the day we met Paz. "I only want peace for my country." I can't believe we ever bought that cover story. After Paz tried to steal Zeke from us, and we watched her get pulled beneath the waves... There was one thing I kept asking myself. Which was the real Paz and which was the lie?"

Might be an oversight on the writing more than anything, since like you said, he already confessed to Big Boss in Peace Walker.

Pretty sure the line you are referring to is just an audio recording. Many of the tapes you listen to actually happen during peace walker itself you know, so it is fully possible it was recorded BEFORE he manned up and admitted it. Either than or yeah, innocent mistake. The story is insanely complex, things are going to get retconned or forgotten even by Kojima.

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#21 Edited by kasaioni (2397 posts) -

@karkarov: Kaz told BB about knowing that Paz was a triple agent, but he never told Big Boss about how deep his relationship with Cipher goes as the Phone Call does. The main thing is that Kaz is still not being entirely truthful with Big Boss.

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#22 Edited by Krullban (1470 posts) -

@karkarov said:

@probablytuna said:
@krullban said:

"The rain was coming down just as hard the day we met Paz. "I only want peace for my country." I can't believe we ever bought that cover story. After Paz tried to steal Zeke from us, and we watched her get pulled beneath the waves... There was one thing I kept asking myself. Which was the real Paz and which was the lie?"

Might be an oversight on the writing more than anything, since like you said, he already confessed to Big Boss in Peace Walker.

Pretty sure the line you are referring to is just an audio recording. Many of the tapes you listen to actually happen during peace walker itself you know, so it is fully possible it was recorded BEFORE he manned up and admitted it. Either than or yeah, innocent mistake. The story is insanely complex, things are going to get retconned or forgotten even by Kojima.

No, I'm pretty sure it's just a random thing he says during the mission. Could be wrong but that's how I remember it. Hence the "The rain was coming down just as hard" and it's raining in Ground Zeroes. I think it's just something he says over the radio.

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#23 Posted by Dan_CiTi (5167 posts) -

No, there can only be one Snake, and one Big Boss.

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#24 Posted by probablytuna (5006 posts) -
@krullban said:

@karkarov said:

@probablytuna said:
@krullban said:

"The rain was coming down just as hard the day we met Paz. "I only want peace for my country." I can't believe we ever bought that cover story. After Paz tried to steal Zeke from us, and we watched her get pulled beneath the waves... There was one thing I kept asking myself. Which was the real Paz and which was the lie?"

Might be an oversight on the writing more than anything, since like you said, he already confessed to Big Boss in Peace Walker.

Pretty sure the line you are referring to is just an audio recording. Many of the tapes you listen to actually happen during peace walker itself you know, so it is fully possible it was recorded BEFORE he manned up and admitted it. Either than or yeah, innocent mistake. The story is insanely complex, things are going to get retconned or forgotten even by Kojima.

No, I'm pretty sure it's just a random thing he says during the mission. Could be wrong but that's how I remember it. Hence the "The rain was coming down just as hard" and it's raining in Ground Zeroes. I think it's just something he says over the radio.

Yeah I remember that codec dialogue now, you can trigger it when you're near the POW in the SW campsite, so not an audio recording.

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#25 Edited by sammo21 (5958 posts) -

Here's my theory, and its not really "conspiracy" worthy. Pro-tip: there will be spoilers for MG games, but if you're here talking about MGS5 then I don't care.

Big Boss has been voiced by David Hayter but also had a different voice actor when he showed up at the end of Metal Gear Solid 4. I always thought it was weird that Big Boss in MGS3 was basically just Solid Snake sounding, even if they were clones. Liquid and Solidus sounded completely different than Snake so it only made sense someone else should have been the voice actor, but fans liked it so whatever.

Now we are in MGS5 and Big Boss has a new voice actor. I think this is because Kojima plans on bringing this all full circle in his next game, Metal Gear. This will basically be an expanded that ends with the events of the original Metal Gear game. This would mean Big Boss and Snake spend a large portion of time talking to each other, so it would make no sense for Hayter to pull double duty there. This would also let people take the reigns of a young Solid Snake and allow for them to have a nice end to the series, again.

Then again, who knows. I think the choice of Sutherland for Big Boss was weird as he was way more money than Hayter ever would be, and Kojima's already confirmed that Boss is pretty quiet for a large part of the game. I am excited either way, but I hope the voice actor change really means more than Kojima wanted to do it for the hell of it.

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#26 Posted by Krullban (1470 posts) -

@probablytuna: Seems like it would be a pretty massive oversight. To completely forget about the real ending of Peace Walker.

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#28 Posted by Corevi (6796 posts) -

@probablytuna: Yeah I think he thought that Paz legitimately switched to their side and was surprised when she took Zeke.

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#29 Edited by Strife777 (2100 posts) -

I sincerely doubt Kojima would go there. I'd be supremely disappointed. You can say MGS was or became stupid and I'll accept that, but not "there was more than one Big Boss all this time!" kind of stupid.

I would be glad if the reason Keifer Sutherland is voicing Big Boss was that David Hayter was voicing Solid Snake, but I somehow have my doubts. I'm guessing Kojima just felt like a change or something. Now as to why Sutherland would be voicing multiple characters.... beats me. Again, don't think it's anything to do with multiple Big Bosses. Possibly hallucinations? Ishmael could simply be in Big Boss' mind. Has it ever even been confirmed that he's the one doing his voice?

Anyway, there's a lot of questions to be answered and I expect MGS5 to be complete insanity.

Edit: Oh and by the way! Where the fuck is Frank Jaeger? I haven't played Portable Ops, but I know he was in that, but then what?

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#30 Posted by probablytuna (5006 posts) -

Sorry deleted my previous post cause it didn't make much sense.

My original post from before: Come to think of it, could that sentence "Which was the real Paz and which was the lie?" be referring to the fact that she had conflicting feelings about MSF and Cipher as revealed in her tapes? They had already recovered them by that point in Ground Zeroes.

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#31 Posted by kasaioni (2397 posts) -

@corevi: That's the other thing, it's not like Kaz planned for Paz to take ZEKE (as far as we know).

In any case, these "there is more than one BB" theories, along with the rest, are complete nonsense.

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#32 Posted by pause422 (6343 posts) -

No there is not.

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#33 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -

@strife777: At some point before Metal Gear 2 Big Boss meets up with Frank Jaeger and recruits him into Outer Heaven. I could see it happening in this game since there are in mission assist characters (Quiet).

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#34 Posted by kasaioni (2397 posts) -

@strife777: Kojima doesn't care about whatever happened in Portables Ops. That game is only partially canon.

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#35 Posted by mechakirby (448 posts) -

There's no way we're gonna guess correctly what exactly Kojima is doing to fuck with us, even though it obvious he's fucking fuck us *somehow.* I love that Metal Gear games have this whole "how is he fucking with us this time?" game that lasts years before the real game comes out. Remember the MGS4 trailer where he turns off the octocamo or something and it's young snakes face and it turned out there was just a young snake mask you could wear - not two solid snakes

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#36 Edited by Karkarov (3385 posts) -

@kasaioni said:

@strife777: Kojima doesn't care about whatever happened in Portables Ops. That game is only partially canon.

Yeah well let's not forget Sniper Wolf or Vulcan Raven either. Rumor is a seriously young Psycho Mantis will be in game but all the rest of the people that made up Fox Hound are missing in action. Well except Miller and Campbell who also showed up in Portable Ops. We know where Solid, Liquid, and Solidus come from at least.

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#37 Posted by Strife777 (2100 posts) -

@kasaioni said:

Kojima doesn't care about whatever happened in Portables Ops. That game is only partially canon.

Oh right. Forgot about that. So he might as well have not met him yet.

@corevi said:

At some point before Metal Gear 2 Big Boss meets up with Frank Jaeger and recruits him into Outer Heaven. I could see it happening in this game since there are in mission assist characters (Quiet).

Yeah, I looked it up and it seems the only time they meet again is after he saves him and meets a young Naomi Hunter somewhere in "the 1980s", which kind of implies that has to happen in The Phantom Pain. Just seems weird to me that he doesn't factor into anything before then.

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#38 Posted by kasaioni (2397 posts) -

@strife777: I think there is this misconception that Grey Fox is a more important character in the saga than he actually is. Outside of Metal Gear 2, he's really only a minor character.

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#39 Posted by sammo21 (5958 posts) -

@karkarov: Wait, I didn't think that those members of FOXHOUND were even active members until the late 90s and early 2000s.

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#40 Posted by Windir2112 (213 posts) -

@strife777: I doubt Snake shows up, of if he is I don't think it's Hayter. He's been really angry on twitter about this for a while now.

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#41 Posted by Karkarov (3385 posts) -
@sammo21 said:

@karkarov: Wait, I didn't think that those members of FOXHOUND were even active members until the late 90s and early 2000s.

I think Raven was in his 30's in MGS1 so he might have been active in some way. Little harder to tell with Wolf. As for portable ops apparently it is and isn't cannon. Just saw an interview with Kojima where he basically says "I wrote it but some of the details are off". Basically later saying it is cannon but parts of it I won't bother specifying aren't :P. So it is possible that Gray Fox isn't really in Portable Ops but Campbell probably was there.

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#42 Posted by sammo21 (5958 posts) -

@karkarov: Well, Snake was in FOXHOUND so I would assume that if those members were active when Solid Snake was active he would have known about them at the time of MGS. I felt his knowledge indicated that they were likely inducted in after he left the unit.

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#43 Posted by kasaioni (2397 posts) -

@karkarov: Kojima didn't write or even direct Portable Ops; he was working on MSG4 at the time. Kojima was the producer (as he is with any Koji Pro game), Gakuto Mikumo wrote it, and Masahiro Yamamoto directed it. He had less involvement with it than he did with Revengeance.

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#44 Posted by sammo21 (5958 posts) -

@kasaioni: and I'm fairly certain that MGS:R is non-canon as well, right?

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#45 Edited by Corevi (6796 posts) -

@sammo21: It could be canon it could be not. Doesn't really matter until they make another game set after MGS4. I really want Senator Armstrong and Ladies Man Otacon to be canon though.

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#46 Edited by TechnoSyndrome (1596 posts) -

My theory is that Ishmael (who is also the medic) is just a projection of Big Boss' for him to separate himself from some of the terrible things he does. (Like taking the bomb out of Paz while she was still awake and without anesthetics in Ground Zeroes) Basically Tyler Durden, though hopefully Kojima doesn't try to make a big reveal out of it if that's actually true because that twist has been done a billion times now. It could be the chunk of rock in his head is what causes his delusions, and the surgery scene in Ground Zeroes is how Big Boss retroactively remembers things happening after he wakes up from his coma.

Also worth noting for like the billionth time that Big Boss is still voiced by the same actor in Japan as previous games. And if Keifer really was playing an impostor and the different voice is supposed to be a clue it'd be pretty ridiculous that none of these characters that had known him for years would notice he now sounds like a completely different person.

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#47 Posted by obcdexter (968 posts) -

Also worth noting for like the billionth time that Big Boss is still voiced by the same actor in Japan as previous games. And if Keifer really was playing an impostor and the different voice is supposed to be a clue it'd be pretty ridiculous that none of these characters that had known him for years would notice he now sounds like a completely different person.

Unless, of course, they are all ... in on it.

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#48 Posted by Karkarov (3385 posts) -

@kasaioni said:

@karkarov: Kojima didn't write or even direct Portable Ops; he was working on MSG4 at the time. Kojima was the producer (as he is with any Koji Pro game), Gakuto Mikumo wrote it, and Masahiro Yamamoto directed it. He had less involvement with it than he did with Revengeance.

I can't help you, it was an interview with Kojima himself and they asked him straight up "Is portable Ops Cannon?" he basically said yes, but there are small parts and details in it that are not cannon. Then went on to give no specific info about what those non cannon parts were. Not much else to say about it.

@corevi said:

@sammo21: It could be canon it could be not. Doesn't really matter until they make another game set after MGS4. I really want Senator Armstrong and Ladies Man Otacon to be canon though.

As scary as it sounds every article I see specifically talking about the Cannon status of MGS:R says it is Cannon. At the very least Kojima has not said it isn't.

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#49 Posted by PandaBear (1484 posts) -

@krullban said:

@corevi said:

Fuck all the conspiracy theories about this game. They are all garbage and operate on an idealized version of Kojima that only exists to fuck with you.

Like he doesn't? He literally revealed the game with fake trailers for a new IP, with a fake developer, where he went to events wearing a mask with bandages around it saying he got into an injury.

Can I just say that all that bullshit with fake developer and trailer lead to fuck all and was a huge waste of time. I mean he made a fake company called Moby Dick games and did what with it? Later revealed it was fake and the trailer was for Metal Gear Solid V? Something I read the same day the "mysterious" trailer was released. There was no mystery, it added nothing. Kojima needs an editor or someone to bounce ideas off, otherwise you end up with that two hour epilogue at the end of Metal Gear Solid 4 which was the WORST case of lazy story telling in a game (telling, not showing) I have ever seen.

Have you heard his recent bullshit about wanting the player to project themselves onto Big Boss so they made him speak less in this game? A man who's ideas and opinions have been well-established in MULTIPLE games and NOW he wants the player to project onto Boss? Does he know how stupid that sounds? Couldn't he just say "Kiefer was expensive, less talky more shooting".

Negativity aside, still looking forward to this game ... ... ... I'll stop ranting now.

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#50 Posted by Baillie (4711 posts) -

Have you heard his recent bullshit about wanting the player to project themselves onto Big Boss so they made him speak less in this game? A man who's ideas and opinions have been well-established in MULTIPLE games and NOW he wants the player to project onto Boss? Does he know how stupid that sounds? Couldn't he just say "Kiefer was expensive, less talky more shooting".

This is easily my biggest fear coming into MGS V. When he said that, I was actually pretty pissed.