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Avatar image for sgtsphynx
#1 Edited by SgtSphynx (2616 posts) -

Allow me to preface this by saying that I was not among those criticizing Quiet's design prior to release. I am of the standing that if a creator wants to design something some way, that's their prerogative and who am I to try to fit my world view on someone else? Oh also, before I get into this bear in mind that I do like the character.

That being said, I am of two minds on the justification for Quiet's look. On one side, I think the idea of a character who essentially uses photosynthesis to exist is fucking cool and fits right in with all the other crazy shit in the Metal Gear universe. And following that it does make some logical sense that a being who breathes through their skin would want to wear a minimum of clothing. And with that we get into my other feeling on the justification.

To me, and I could be completely wrong here, it feels like the justification came about from Quiet being almost naked and not the other way around. What I mean by this is they didn't start with the justification and then design the character around that, it seems like they started with the character design and then figured out how to justify the design.

I don't know, it's just a feeling I got from the scene when Quiet becomes usable as a buddy. I still like the character and her abilities are fucking awesome. She can also be pretty fucking broken.

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Avatar image for efesell
#2 Posted by Efesell (4471 posts) -

Oh yeah the design had to have come first on that one. It is beyond me to believe otherwise, I've spent too much time seeing her strut awkwardly around the ACC while I'm in the menu.

But yeah while I think the justification is incredibly stupid it's also just that and not something overly disgusting instead so I'm pretty okay with it.

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#3 Posted by Three0neFive (2446 posts) -

I feel like everyone was hyping up Quiet to be way more than she was ever going to be. I really think Kojima's "You will be ashamed of your words and deeds" tweet kind of got lost in translation and he ended up using way stronger language than he intended.

Quiet is dumb, Metal Gear is dumb, nobody should be surprised and I think trying to hold it up to some higher standard is an exercise in futility. Pick your battles, y'know?

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#4 Posted by SkullPanda1 (1624 posts) -

All I can say is that Im very underwhelmed with the "reasoning" and I'm not really seeing the point in bringing her around.

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#5 Posted by Efesell (4471 posts) -

Oh the point in bringing her along is that at max level she can destroy entire bases by herself and it takes maybe an hour to get to that point.

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#6 Posted by Oscar__Explosion (2980 posts) -

To me, and I could be completely wrong here, it feels like the justification came about from Quiet being almost naked and not the other way around. What I mean by this is they didn't start with the justification and then design the character around that, it seems like they started with the character design and then figured out how to justify the design.

Loading Video...

Sounds about right.

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#7 Edited by bceagles128 (788 posts) -

The whole explanation is incredibly thin and does nothing to mask the reality that Kojima is a just huge pervert who just wants to put half naked women in his video games. Which, in all honesty. I don't particularly care about. Except when it was Paz and they were portraying her as a 16 year old. That was pretty fucked up.

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#8 Posted by audioBusting (2558 posts) -

Yeah it really makes no sense when the last photosynthetic sniper Big Boss fought wore a full ghillie suit.

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#9 Posted by Efesell (4471 posts) -

I guess if you wanted to be a little bit fair there is a little more to what Quiet does than the End just having a bullshit power he could call on as a Cobra member.

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#10 Edited by Milkman (19285 posts) -

I think the fact that Quiet actually is a good character makes it all the more frustrating. That she walks around more or less naked adds literally nothing to her character. It's like Kojima couldn't help himself and if he thinks that the photosynthesis stuff was really gonna make people "ashamed of their deeds and words", that's a whole other level of embarrassing on top of it.

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#11 Posted by Efesell (4471 posts) -

Even if he had a way better explanation it would still have been ruined by having her make sexy poses at the camera while you're in the chopper.

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#12 Posted by redyoshi (1426 posts) -

@efesell said:

Even if he had a way better explanation it would still have been ruined by having her make sexy poses at the camera while you're in the chopper.

That's actually what kills it for me. When I first started increasing her bond, she would look towards Big Boss and smile very slightly. From that, I thought maybe it wouldn't be so bad. It was actually kinda sweet, like she was opening up to him as a comrade. Get a few more bond levels and then it just goes way too far.

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#13 Posted by Efesell (4471 posts) -

It starts to feel real sad too. Desperately trying to get the attention of this statue sitting in the corner.

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#14 Edited by Spitznock (1198 posts) -

I reside within, and will always reside within the camp of "If you're giving someone creative reign over a project, let them have total creative reign. If that includes something offensive, then so be it."

Do I like Quiet's design? Nah, she isn't one of the cooler looking characters in the series. Do I wish her design were less revealing or changed in any way? Nah. It's almost refreshing to see these days in a weird way, even if saying that makes me sound like a creep.

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#15 Posted by ITSSEXYTIME (253 posts) -

@sgtsphynx: There's a lot more to Quiet than the initial talk with Ocelot before you can take her on missions.

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#16 Edited by ShadyPingu (1806 posts) -

I laughed out loud when Ocelot mentioned the photosynthesis bit. Like, remember when we fought that old plant guy in a ghillie suit?

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#17 Edited by RonGalaxy (4936 posts) -

@encephalon: well, the ghillie suit was more than just that for the end. It was almost like a part of his body. When he became damaged enough, the leaves on it would start to turn brown and whither, which indicate it was more than just a suit. It could be that it actually aided in his photosynthesis.

I think the justification is fine, and works, but I know for a fact that whoever created Quiet wanted her to be scantily clad for other (more nefarious) reasons than her powers, and the justification probably was second to that. I can't say for sure that kojima created her 100%, because I don't believe that every single idea from these games comes from his head. It just isn't possible.

Either way, I think she's a cool character, and the nature of her design could be the same or completely different and I wouldn't care. I just think snipers are badass.

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#18 Posted by Humanity (18711 posts) -

I haven't beaten the game yet and I assume there is more to her story, but as far as the photosynthesis angle yah that isn't super strong in terms of "justifying" her appearance - or not anything anyone would feel ashamed about anyway, but I just chalk that up to a language barrier on Kojimas part.

That said, in the long run I don't really care one way or another. Everyone is so very intent on pointing out how this is both disappointing, how it ruins the character, and how it's just typical Kojima once again being a pervert and objectifying women. Eh.. I mean whatever, it's not a big deal to me. it's just a game with a bunch of crazy, unbelievable stuff in it. I find it hard to take a strong moral stance on this one character in a game full of ridiculous things like making a horse defecate on command. I still think she's a cool character and I don't somehow think less of her or of Kojima. Is it pervy? Sure. Does it ruin the game for me? Not especially.

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#19 Posted by FrodoBaggins (2046 posts) -

I quite enjoy when creators decide to include semi/half/fully naked men/women in their video games. Mostly because it's not something you see regularly, almost like the medium isn't mature and or diverse enough to accommodate it.

So, in summary, I thibk Quiet is perfectly fine.

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#20 Posted by WalterCrunkFite (618 posts) -

For all of the nonsense justification that abounds in the series, it's funny they couldn't find a way for Quiet to wear less revealing clothing. My main problem is that it takes me out of the game as it's so lecherous and silly. But I guess that's my problem.

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#21 Edited by audioBusting (2558 posts) -

@frodobaggins: not something you see regularly? I'd be hard pressed to name a woman in a fighting game who isn't in a strangely revealing outfit! It's not necessarily mature, although MGS did have moments where nakedness is used to pretty good effect (The Boss comes to mind).

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#22 Posted by FrodoBaggins (2046 posts) -

@audiobusting: Hmmm, yes. Perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly. I guess I meant provocative, sexual content in general, rather than semi naked characters. Like you say, lots of fighting games have their female characters in revealing outfits of some form. I guess I just don't get worked up about the whole subject like some. Probably has something to do with cultural differences?

Either way, I haven't got around to using Quiet all that much yet, I can't forgo the usefulness of DD.

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#23 Posted by Draugen (978 posts) -

Kojima is the creative mind behind this thing, and as such, it's absolutely his right to include whatever he wants into his creation. That doesn't stop me from thinking this so-called justification is a load of bull, and a very weak attempt at explaining away that he just wanted some more T'n'A in yourr face.

For me, it just feels so incredibly dumb, and not the good kind of dumb. Eva was the good kind of dumb, where he held it back just enough for it to work. This time around, it feels like he just said 'fuck it!, let's put the pedal down, and go for it!'

I don't find it offensive in any way, I just feel that they ruined a potentially really interesting character by abandoning all self-restraint.

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#24 Posted by ToTheNines (1672 posts) -

I am not opposed to a character being bad ass and sexy regardless of their gender. I quite liked Quiet, I wouldn't change her design in any way, and I found her growing relationship with ahab very interesting. If you found her design offensive, that's cool and your right, her character is just not for you. That's my simplistic view on it all.

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#25 Posted by FaulPern (45 posts) -

For me, everything about Quiet that's not about her looks is fucking cool to me. She's mute (not a lot of vidya game chars are mute) and she has this constant scowl on her face, she has super powers and jumps really high. You can also throw a grenade, and she can shoot it so it bounces into a helicopter to take it down.

And then there's her body which is a body scan from a nice looking Dutch model who also did the mo-cap, better than the standards of fighting game chars since she's based off a real person, so instead of being a Ms. Fanservice with over-exagerated proportions, she's a Ms. Fanservice 3D model with real tits. Aoife Wilson of Eurogamer fame wrote this piece, which I thought was kinda dismissive of Quiet's actual character, though it does bring up a lot of good points. So while I think she's cool and stuff, it's hard not to think she's just Kojima's wet dream.

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#26 Edited by Gruff182 (1065 posts) -

Once you find out about her photosynthesis buisness. They could have easily had an R&D development of a "zero-suit Samus" style full body suit, some tech sounding micro-fibre stuff. You know, to appease America and give a bit of variety.

But think of poor Snake, his back must be in crippling pain, after a days sneaking, sabotaging, murdering and rescuing. At the end of it all, it's probably nice to see some boobs hanging on the side of his chopper.

I'll get my coat.

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#27 Posted by Humanity (18711 posts) -

@matterman: That article really does reduce her character to just "a pair of tits" as she puts it. I'm a straight male so it's quite possible that this is just lost on me, but even as the target demographic I don't find it to be that front and center, and certainly not the only thing I concentrate on. I can completely relate to all the issues raised around the design. Women want badass female characters that don't look like strippers, I think everyone can understand this. Characters like The Boss, Sniper Wolf, Meryl or even Eva. So when they see someone like Quiet, who for all intents and purposes does look like a Halloween "sexy sniper" costume come to life, I can see where the dismay is coming from. But I don't get the part where all Wilson sees are a pair of jiggling tits. The article makes it sound like she is borderline obsessed with pointing out that, yes, Quiet has sizable breasts and yes she is wearing a bikini top, and thats all there is and ever will be. Maybe it is some sort of inner outrage that freezes her gaze anew each time she sees Quiet in some form of bewilderment and disbelief. I get it, I see them too, but I'm not somehow crippled into a lethargic stare that renders me unable to see anything else. The first time you see her you go like "huh..well thats out there" but the 3rd or even 2nd time you see her she's just Quiet, the sniper support character. It didn't take me that long to adjust and become indifferent to her outfit. I didn't analyze every scene and point out how the camera is obviously panning at them, he wants me to look can't you all see, he wants me to look at those tits! It just reads as a little sensationalist.

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#28 Posted by NPCDi (583 posts) -

The photosynthesis thing makes some sense when it's first explained as the end wasn't wearing a suit so much as plants were growing out of him. But then you find out that code talker has the same ability which he got from parasites from the ends exploded corpse. It would make more sense if code talker was sitting in his wheelchair wearing nothing but a thong but it seems like they ruined their own justification for it pretty soon after its explained.

My quiet is made of metal and you can have her wear a skull suit which covers her up so it's all just nonsense anyway.

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#29 Edited by Crysack (566 posts) -

She's pure, unadulterated fanservice. Watching her pose in the ACC and brig is proof enough. Who the hell cares though? I see the MGS franchise as one big B-movie so Quiet is par for the course, really.

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#30 Posted by Willin (1405 posts) -

I always found it funny that a franchise that has hyper-sexualized female characters like Quiet, EVA, Meryl and Naomi also included The Boss who in my personal opinion is the best female character ever in a video game.

And she only gets her tits out once.

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#31 Edited by T_wester (839 posts) -

The photosynthesis part is completely bonkers btw. The avg photosynthetic rate of a c3* plant circa. 15 micromol CO2/m^2/sec**.

The "leaf area" of Quiet is her skin so ca. 16000 cm^2*** if she is lying prone sniping is only half of that active so 8000 cm^2 or 0,8m^2 if we make sure the conditions are ideal in therms of available water, temperature don't exceed optimum**** ignoring photorespiration etc and say there are 12hours = 43200 seconds of active photosynthesis. can we calculate the production.

15*0,8*43200 = 518400 micromoles or 0,5184 moles CO2 used

if we then use this formula:

6H2O + 6CO2 + energy → C6H12O6 + 6O2

and use the Molar mass of C6H12O6 = 180.15588 g/mol can we calculate that quiet is producing 93.39 grams of sugar or 355,6 kcal a day, a far cry from the 2000 needed. Even if her entire area somehow was active would she only produce 187 grams or 711,3 kcal while still staving to death.

She would have to increase her photosynthetic rate to 43 co2 mikromol/m2/sec**** way beyond the limit of even the most efficient plants. There is also the problem of where she is getting enough macro and micro nutrients without a root system.

But heynanomachines magical parasites son I guess.

*

*most plants are c3

**although it varies much

***quick google search

**** not very likely

***** still amusing all of the area is active

Avatar image for rongalaxy
#32 Posted by RonGalaxy (4936 posts) -

Can someone tell quiet to please stop grunting so loudly, I'm trying to customize my emblem.

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#33 Posted by Smashworth (9 posts) -

The difference between her and The End or Code Talker, is that they have lungs, they reveal later on that hers are pretty much just ashes at this point. It adds a bit of justification, but I still don't like the way she looks at all, it's trying too hard for me. I just keep her in the Gray XOF suit.

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#34 Posted by Oldirtybearon (5626 posts) -

I love that Quiet is one of the best Metal Gear characters in the series, has one of the most human and heart wrenching stories in V, and all people want to talk about is what she does or doesn't wear.

I appreciate irony, is what I'm saying.

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#35 Posted by chu52 (701 posts) -

You can like the character and also think that she should be a little less objectified. I remember Kojuma saying that if you really didn't like her fishenets and bikini you could give her different gear. That gear amounts to covering her in blood or silver paint.

I think she is a cool character but I would also like to be able to show her to friends and not have to go "well she has to wear a thong and fishnets......."

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#36 Posted by Lanechanger (1679 posts) -

If this quote from the wiki is true, Kojima said to have the character design to be sexy/erotic, so that definitely came first:

"On September 6, 2013, in response to the mixed reaction concerning Quiet's characteristics, Kojima clarified exactly what he meant when he asked lead designer Yoji Shinkawa for a "more erotic" character."

wiki link

Avatar image for megalowho
#37 Posted by megalowho (1146 posts) -

The justification line is worth an eye roll for sure, but easy to move on from. Her character is interesting and she's incredibly useful, pervy camera and getup aside. That's anime/Metal Gear for you.

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#38 Posted by IVDAMKE (1823 posts) -

People saying that the design came first and justification later how far are you through the game and have you listened to all the tapes? Because I thought the same thing when they initially reveal why but as the story goes on that was no longer the case for reasons I won't say if you aren't that far.

The design is still shit though, you can use that justification, make her sexy and wear less clothing and not have her look as trashy as she does. Thankfully you can get Sniper Wolf's outfit for her.

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#39 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (1712 posts) -

@t_wester: Hmm. Now there is also room for breast expansion fanfiction - you know when no one is looking, some parts of her grow larger to meet the scientific requirements for the surface area...

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#40 Posted by Brodehouse (10812 posts) -

And here I was thinking she had octocamo skin and thus wanted to wear as little opaque gear as possible in order to more effectively blend in to her surroundings. Hence the fishnets.

Turns out she's a plant lady. That doesn't turn my crank. I'd rather go out with the floating Powerman 5000 girl with the pink hair.

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#41 Posted by teaoverlord (592 posts) -

It's not even a good design though. Like, Kojima's a giant perv, I expect overly sexualized characters, but Quiet's design is just so boring. The other characters' designs actually have personality to them and Quiet's is just "hot lady in a thong and a bra that's too small".

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#42 Posted by mrfluke (6101 posts) -

its simply Kojima being a perv over a model he liked, the man is responsible for some of the most badass female characters in gaming (the boss, sniper wolf, olga,),

but the man also has his tendancies to be a pervert, but its completely harmless, and the model that they modeled quiet after Stephanie Joosten, is completely fine with it, so whatever.

Avatar image for teddie
#43 Posted by Teddie (2137 posts) -

@oscar__explosion: I was rolling my eyes at the start of the scene but then they started splashing each other and Big Boss started giggling and it was actually really sweet (I don't think Big Boss showed a single emotion in the game other than "quiet brooding" before this scene, so it was a nice reminder that he is actually still supposed to be a human being).

So it's kind of a shame that scene is one of the lamest in the game while also being one of the best.

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#44 Posted by TheHT (15833 posts) -

I love that Quiet is one of the best Metal Gear characters in the series, has one of the most human and heart wrenching stories in V, and all people want to talk about is what she does or doesn't wear.

I appreciate irony, is what I'm saying.

She's half naked AND a person? Inconceivable.

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#45 Posted by Plan6 (62 posts) -
@theht said:
@oldirtybearon said:

I love that Quiet is one of the best Metal Gear characters in the series, has one of the most human and heart wrenching stories in V, and all people want to talk about is what she does or doesn't wear.

I appreciate irony, is what I'm saying.

She's half naked AND a person? Inconceivable.

She is a character who has a story, but she isn't a person. People have agency and can dress themselves. Characters are creations of the authors and are dressed by them. And there is no real woman with a chest like that who would go into battle without a sports bra. Even if she needs to be half naked for "reasons", the design of the character is to have a girl with big boobs showing them off.

And it's totally fine to like her, just accept the reasons why she is designed the way she is.

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#46 Posted by Yelix (386 posts) -

It's an elaborate, stupid justification for Kojima to put a prominent pair of boobs in his game. It would have been more honest and slightly more respectable for him to just say "I put the hot lady in the game because I like titys" because that's the ACTUAL backstory for Quiet.

There's nothing wrong with a character being "sexy," but there are better ways to do it. EVA walked around with her shirt unbuttoned because she was pulling a long con on Big Boss for the entire game. Quiet walks around in a bra and doing "sexy" poses in the ACC just because Kojima likes looking at that.

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#47 Posted by SgtSphynx (2616 posts) -

@baronsamedi: I'm only on mission 14 or 15, but I connected the dots on the events in the hospital damaging her lungs when I saw the events in the hospital, though I didn't realize photosynthesis was part of it. I haven't yet seen how they explain the survival but am interested. Even with that connection, it still felt like they started with the character design and then figured out how to justify it, which is perfectly fine. If that is how Kojima, et al. wanted to go about it, more power to them, but claiming it is anything else and stating that people will be ashamed of their criticism (lost in translation based confusion taken into consideration) is disingenuous. If they did start with the design and then come up with the justification, they should have owned up and stated "hey I wanted this sexy lady character and I came up with a pretty interesting justification for it."

Flip this on it's head and if Quiet was a male running around in a Speedo and boots, I'd probably get the same feeling from that scene and would probably still like the character and think the abilities were cool.

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#48 Posted by Plan6 (62 posts) -

@yelix: I would prefer that too. If developers want to put sexy ladies in skimpy clothing in their game, just do it and take whatever criticism comes your way. Don't try to justify it with some in-story/game non-sense like we were all born yesterday and expect us not to notice that the woman is in kittish poses all game.

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#49 Posted by IVDAMKE (1823 posts) -

@sgtsphynx: I beleive he did up saying he wanted a sexy character at some point. But i will say at mission 14 youre very in the dark about Quiet not until about mission 27 to 28 plus all of the tapes about her and other things you havent even witnessed yet will you start to understand what shes about. But like i said even with me knowing more her design is still just kindve lame.

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#50 Posted by Efesell (4471 posts) -

Yeah totally it would be way less obnoxious if he had just stayed true to 'Guys I want this hot lady sniper that hopefully people will cosplay'. It's still pervy but fuck it man it's genuine.