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#51 Posted by Qrowdyy (360 posts) -

@shorap: Faulty reasoning buddy. Just because the Cavs had other opportunities to win the game doesn't invalidate the importance of the charge reversal. Both Hill's missed free throw and JR's stupidity would've been inconsequential if the Warriors weren't given those 2 free throws.

Whether or not the refs did the right thing reversing the call is up for debate. The importance of that reversal on the outcome of the game is not.

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#52 Posted by Captain_Insano (3393 posts) -

@qrowdyy said:

@shorap: Faulty reasoning buddy. Just because the Cavs had other opportunities to win the game doesn't invalidate the importance of the charge reversal. Both Hill's missed free throw and JR's stupidity would've been inconsequential if the Warriors weren't given those 2 free throws.

Whether or not the refs did the right thing reversing the call is up for debate. The importance of that reversal on the outcome of the game is not.

The reversing of that call was huge, and I think it was wrong to do. Using the excuse of checking to see if it was in the no-charge zone is weak at best.

Basketball is one of those games - any one moment could change the match. Pretty much everything in that last 2 minutes was important, and mostly went against Cleveland.

- The refs should not have reviewed that call. I'm fine if they called it a block to begin with. Would they have looked at it the other way if the dominant ref called a block first?

- Hill should have hit that second Free Throw. Again, this is tough. That would've left GSW with 4.7 to get a score. Would they? Maybe. Maybe not

- JR Smith did nothing wrong. Running down the clock was the right play.....OF COURSE IT WAS THE WRONG PLAY. For me, JR is the one who really cost the Cavs here. Maybe he gets blocked. Maybe he gets fouled. Maybe he hits the shot and they win. Maybe he actually passes to LBJ and he wins it. Anything would've been better than what he did, maybe short of giving the ball to GSW.

As a long time basketball player and fan, the JR play is my biggest issue. Bad Basketball IQ, especially at that level, is hard to deal with. George Hill didn't mean to miss the free throw, it was just poor execution. JR meant to dribble out the clock because he's an idiot. It's the one time of the game where you really need to know the score. He didn't. That's bad.

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#53 Posted by meteora3255 (671 posts) -

JR Smith is one of the biggest blunders I've ever seen in a basketball game, like "Weber calling for timeout" big. I've been to Oracle (and several other NBA buildings) and it's pretty hard to find a spot where you can't see a scoreboard. There is no excuse for not knowing time and score, especially that late in a close game.

As far as the call reversal, I think the refs made the right call. The rules allow them to review the entire play, not just factors such as whether the defender was in the restricted area. I get why people are upset, it's a rarely used rule that came up in a pivotal moment, but the refs did their job and made the right call.

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#54 Posted by shorap (339 posts) -
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#55 Edited by shorap (339 posts) -

@meatsim: unless egregious, lane violations won’t get called, just like traveling, carrying, and such.

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#56 Posted by shorap (339 posts) -

@qrowdyy: it was a bad call durIng a critical time, yes. But it didn’t lose them the game which is what some people (not necessarily you) are making it out to be as.

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#57 Posted by meteora3255 (671 posts) -

LeBron came out passive as a scorer tonight. He knew he needed help to win and tried to get his teammates going early but they again didn't provide enough help.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he checked out like he did against Boston in 2010. If he is leaving in free agency no point in spending more energy on a lost cause.

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#58 Edited by Deathstriker (989 posts) -

@shorap: Yeah, I don't see a Pippen/Kyrie similarity. I think LeBron will end up with Paul George and/or Kawhi next season. Either one of them with LeBron will help a lot since they can get their own shot, play defense, and run the offense so he can rest. The idea that he can't even sit on the bench because the team sucks is crazy and will shorten his career. Ben Simmons or maybe Lonzo would help with that too since they're playmakers.

I don't see how it would be possible, but seeing PG, LeBron, and Anthony Davis together would be crazy and probably shut down the Warriors.

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#59 Posted by shorap (339 posts) -

@deathstriker: Thinking PG would be the best wingman for James. It’ll be interesting to see who James plays with and where.

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#60 Posted by Qrowdyy (360 posts) -

When a near 30 pt triple double on 50% shooting is considered a passive game, you know that player is in the conversation for GOAT.

Lebron wants to start winning as many championships as he can, as soon as he can. The clock is ticking. Considering that, they're only a few teams that make sense(listed in order of likelihood imo):

1) Philadelphia 76ers - Their key players are young and inexperienced, but other than that both Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons are potential top-5 future talents. Putting Lebron on that team immediately puts them over the top and gives them the experience/leadership they need.

2) LA Lakers - The Lakers need to sign more than just Paul George to get Lebron. Maybe Kawhi, maybe someone else, but a PG/Lebron 2 man game is not enough to dethrone the Warriors.

3) Houston Rockets - The Rockets would be number one on this list if it weren't for their salary cap situation. Going to the Rockets is almost a guaranteed chip for Lebron. After all this is a team that most likely would have beat the Warriors were it not for the Chris Paul injury(and freakishly missing 27 threes in a row). But, to sign Lebron the Rockets would have to go scorched earth. They'd have to get rid of almost everyone except for their core 4 players(Harden, CP, Gordon, Capela). It's not something the Rockets necessarily need to do considering how they had the Warriors on the ropes.

4) Cleveland Cavaliers - I don't have any confidence in the Cavs front office. If they manage to surprise me and sign an additional all-star talent to keep Lebron I'll be surprised af. Furthermore, I think Dan Gilbert is an idiot who has alienated his best player with his incompetent power-tripping

5)Boston Celtics - Lol. This will never happen, but how salty would Kyrie be if Lebron joined the Celtics?

@captain_insano: I really dislike JR Smith as a basketball player. He's always been a giant fucking liability. He should be playing on a lottery team getting 15-20 minutes a night. The only reason JR Smith's on the Cavs is because he and Lebron are friends.

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#61 Posted by KingBonesaw (1255 posts) -

@deathstriker: What I meant by Kyrie Irving is that Irving is more like MJ whereas LeBron is more like Pippen. LeBron is basically Scottie Pippen and Kobe mixed together since he's such an all around fantastic player but has the mentality that he needs to be the best player on the team at all times and can't delegate to anybody else. Irving is a fantastic scorer so I liken him to MJ in some ways (not all obviously). I wish that Irving would have stuck around Cleveland and tried to force LeBron into not always having to be involved in every single thing going on with the team.

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#62 Edited by alexl86 (864 posts) -

@qrowdyy: If Lebron goes to Philly, they will probably go to the Finals, but I haven’t bought into Simmons being good enough to really win within the next two to three years (especially after scoring 1pt, he really buckled under the pressure in the playoffs) and by that point Lebron’s window is shut close. If Lebron is leaving again, it would be to win now. I can’t see them beating anyone coming out of the west. I still think they’re too young.

As I understand it, the Lakers have cap space for two max players this upcoming summer. They still have to pay Luol Deng 18 million next season and almost 19 the season after, but after that the highest paid players are Lonzo at 7.5 and Ingram at 5.5. They may want to resign Randle, who was pretty good last season. If Lebron is as good as he is right now next season, I think he could present a challenge to Golden State with the Lakers and another free agent, but if Paul George is going to lay an egg like he did against the Jazz, then I don’t see them winning. In that respect, I think Kawhi is a better option, but I think it’s likely he’ll resign with the Spurs, despite the drama.

I don’t see how Houston can fit him under the salary cap without scorching the earth, as you put it. That being said, a lot of veterans would line up to play for a championship on a team like that, sign a 1 year minimum. I just don’t know who would pick up Ryan Andersen for 20 million a year to make it all happen.

The problems with attracting free agents to the Cavs is they are locked in for two more season of Kevin Love (which is the only player actually doing something on the court), Tristan Thompson, George Hill and J.R. Smith. All of them make between 15 (JR) to 25 (KL) million and that’s 80 million dollars locked up, not to mention Jordan Clarksons 12.5 million. If they don’t manage to pull off some Danny Ainge type deal, Cleveland will not change much next season, save for Lebron leaving...

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#63 Edited by Deathstriker (989 posts) -
@qrowdyy said:

When a near 30 pt triple double on 50% shooting is considered a passive game, you know that player is in the conversation for GOAT.

Lebron wants to start winning as many championships as he can, as soon as he can. The clock is ticking. Considering that, they're only a few teams that make sense(listed in order of likelihood imo):

1) Philadelphia 76ers - Their key players are young and inexperienced, but other than that both Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons are potential top-5 future talents. Putting Lebron on that team immediately puts them over the top and gives them the experience/leadership they need.

2) LA Lakers - The Lakers need to sign more than just Paul George to get Lebron. Maybe Kawhi, maybe someone else, but a PG/Lebron 2 man game is not enough to dethrone the Warriors.

3) Houston Rockets - The Rockets would be number one on this list if it weren't for their salary cap situation. Going to the Rockets is almost a guaranteed chip for Lebron. After all this is a team that most likely would have beat the Warriors were it not for the Chris Paul injury(and freakishly missing 27 threes in a row). But, to sign Lebron the Rockets would have to go scorched earth. They'd have to get rid of almost everyone except for their core 4 players(Harden, CP, Gordon, Capela). It's not something the Rockets necessarily need to do considering how they had the Warriors on the ropes.

4) Cleveland Cavaliers - I don't have any confidence in the Cavs front office. If they manage to surprise me and sign an additional all-star talent to keep Lebron I'll be surprised af. Furthermore, I think Dan Gilbert is an idiot who has alienated his best player with his incompetent power-tripping

5)Boston Celtics - Lol. This will never happen, but how salty would Kyrie be if Lebron joined the Celtics?

@captain_insano: I really dislike JR Smith as a basketball player. He's always been a giant fucking liability. He should be playing on a lottery team getting 15-20 minutes a night. The only reason JR Smith's on the Cavs is because he and Lebron are friends.

If I was LeBron and winning champions is all that matters then Boston would be number 1 for me. He can have them trade Kyrie, it would be no colder or harsher than what they just did to IT. I'd have them trade Kyrie and Hayward for someone who wants to leave their team like Kawhi or AD then pickup PG in free agency. Trying to get someone like Kemba Walker would be good too. Hayward is a good player but overrated and developing Tatum and Brown would be better than keeping Hayward around. I'd favor that team over GSW. I don't want this to happen though, simply because I don't like Boston fans - Celtics and Pats.

I wouldn't favor Philly to beat the Warriors - I don't trust Embid's health or Simmons being good in the playoffs unless he develops a shot in the offseason. I'd only like the Lakers if it was LeBron, PG, and another allstar like Kawhi. Rockets, maybe, if they can pay everyone that needs to stick around and LeBron, plus Harden would have to be okay not being the leader/alpha anymore, I'm not sure if players like Harden or Westbrook want to give that up. Stars being like Wade is very rare, I doubt Harden is that mature and self-aware.

The Cavs/Ty Lue have been idiots for playing Jr for so long. Rodney Hood couldn't do worse than Jr if he actually tried to. Korver isn't great at defense but at least he tries and he opens the floor since he's a sniper. I'd play Hood and Korver more than Jr, maybe Cedi too.

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#64 Posted by shorap (339 posts) -

@deathstriker: ‘I don't like Boston fans - Celtics and Pats.’

I hear that.

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#65 Edited by DocHaus (2689 posts) -

LeBron to the Wizards for Ian Mahinmi and Jason Smith who says no?

Everyone in Ohio raises their hand

I wanna say that I don't see him going anywhere after coming back from the Heat, but then I remember when Karl Malone went to the Lakers to chase a ring at the end of his career in 2004 (and came 3 wins short) despite playing in Utah his whole life. Between the current state of the not-Lebrons and the incompetence of the Cleveland FO there is a decent chance he goes to a better team.

On a semi-related note, I stumbled over the fact that Shaq played one season with the Cavs in 2009-10 near the end of his career.

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#66 Posted by Deathstriker (989 posts) -
@dochaus said:

LeBron to the Wizards for Ian Mahinmi and Jason Smith who says no?

Everyone in Ohio raises their hand

I wanna say that I don't see him going anywhere after coming back from the Heat, but then I remember when Karl Malone went to the Lakers to chase a ring at the end of his career in 2004 (and came 3 wins short) despite playing in Utah his whole life. Between the current state of the not-Lebrons and the incompetence of the Cleveland FO there is a decent chance he goes to a better team.

On a semi-related note, I stumbled over the fact that Shaq played one season with the Cavs in 2009-10 near the end of his career.

When I think of Shaq I mainly think of Orlando, Lakers, and a little bit of the Heat, but he played for the Cavs, Suns, and Celtics too. I think Lebron knows better than to go too long like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Malone, Iverson, and others. There's been some speculation that he might retire or take a year break after this season. I'd go to Philly before Washington if I were him.Miami has a better shot than Washington. I don't see how he'd stay in Cleveland. They have too many bad contracts that no one wants. I think I heard today that Hill, Jr, Love, and Thompson alone are getting 50 million next year.

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#67 Posted by DocHaus (2689 posts) -

Even in a fantasy scenario where LeBron was seriously considering Washington, they have no money to give him thanks to tying it all up in their 1-3 max core and Mahinmi. The cherry on top is that the owner quietly extended the dumbass GM who made those moves another year while no one was looking. I'm resigned to the fact that the Wiz are going to be stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity for the next 2-3 years while they hope to hit a jackpot now that they haven't burned their draft picks for short-term rentals the first time in a while.

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#68 Posted by Qrowdyy (360 posts) -

The expected result. GG Warriors.

/thread

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#69 Edited by pweidman (2799 posts) -

Kudos and congrats to the GSW's. Durant in game 3 was epic; what a pros pro. Cleveland was overmatched, and I felt for LeBron, who apparently punched a whiteboard after game one. Anyway, the off season for LeBron is gonna be a whirlwind. Teams are lined up already with offers. I hope he stays and they get him some legit help, but they should have done that this year, so you can't blame him if he goes mercenary for hire. Houston would be the super interesting landing spot. He'd be the right guy to Rocket them past the Warriors, lol.

Meanwhile the Warriors stars are all still in their twenties except Curry who just turned 30. They'll be in the mix for titles for several more years, not only because of their youth but because of the unselfish style of play and the way they get along and have fun playing the game. Special chemistry with little ego issues has been their biggest strength all along. Also, the way those young bench guys play is a real teller imo. Curr and his staff are state-of-the-art in the NBA right now.

And for those Rocket fans: Your team will be back and great again next year. Take some time this summer to watch your Astros. They are the best team in the MLB, and by a significant margin. They too, just look like they are having fun playing the game. And to think they were mostly put together in about 2 drafts. I hope those scouts got big fat bonuses.

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#70 Posted by Deathstriker (989 posts) -

@pweidman: I give them no kudos. A team with 4 HOFs should sweep the Cavs who only have two starters (James and Love) the rest of them wouldn't start on a playoff team. They probably would've lost to the Rockets if Paul stayed healthy.

LeBron should definitely leave. They dont have enough cap space to get 2 more allstars or very good players. Ty Lue should be fired. Going to Philly, Spurs, or Boston would make them equal or favorites over GSW to me.

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#71 Posted by hippie_genocide (2363 posts) -

If LeBron wants to win, he has to leave. If he goes to the 76ers, they may as well trade Simmons. I'm sure the market would be hot for him. In exchange, an elite guard who can be effective off the ball would be the best fit. Let them battle it out with Boston to see who gets to lose to the Warriors in the finals.

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#72 Posted by Deathstriker (989 posts) -

@hippie_genocide: Simmons and LeBron could work well together in a CP3/Harden type of way. Simmons would extend Lebron's career since he'd now be able to go to the bench and rest. Someone probably has to take a pay cut, but if Philly gets LeBron and Paul George I think they'd beat GSW. It's not like they're invincible, Rockets almost beat them.

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#73 Posted by hippie_genocide (2363 posts) -

@deathstriker: Neither is much of a threat off the ball. Simmons in particular can't shoot, he needs to have the ball to be effective. So, I don't see their games meshing that well together. I wouldn't even bother to sign Paul George if I was Philly. He's one of the most overhyped players in the league. Playoff P? Give me a break.

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#74 Posted by Nefarious_Al (276 posts) -

Going for the three peat next year, Go Warriors!

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#75 Posted by OurSin_360 (6079 posts) -

Nba finals = Space Jam brought to life, except the Monstars win lol.

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#76 Edited by Deathstriker (989 posts) -

@hippie_genocide: Paul George is easily a top 15 player in the league. Kevin Love, Hayward, Draymond, and other players are way more overrated. LeBron has said he wants to play off the ball more and Simmons can develop a shot. Boston is the best overall fit - they'd just need to get rid of Kyrie for someone like Kemba and see if they can package Hayward and someone else for Kawhi.