A question of morals and ethics.

This is my least favorite kind of relationship advice thread. No one's gonna get out of this clean. There's no fun to be had in this.

I might confront him privately on it, just ask as if you don't know what's going on entirely (might just be a huge misunderstanding), but stay out of it, and your girlfriend doesn't need to get involved unless SHE figures out what's happening between your friend and his GF, and decides she wants to confront one of them on it. I've found that even if two of your friends/family etc. are not working out in a romantic relationship, and they're both aware of it, that neither party appreciates having that pointed out. It's not your place to say, no matter how much you might want to help.

@pyromagnestir said:

This is my least favorite kind of relationship advice thread. No one's gonna get out of this clean. There's no fun to be had in this.

not like this...

not like this

@Legion_ said:

@TruthTellah: I might have been a little fast on the trigger. It sounded fucking bulletproof for the first ten seconds. Now it just sounds stupid. I think the best thing I can do for now is just to focus on my own relationship. I won't tell my girlfriend what I know, but I won't lie if she asks. I'm not that kind of guy. Or at the very least, I don't want to be that kind of guy. A man has to have a code, and now I'm going to start living up to mine. You truly are the tellah of truth.

I'm glad you realized that. Though, really, I'd recommend talking to your friend. If you really are sure that he is regularly cheating on his girlfriend and then covering it up, at least let him know that you don't approve of what he is doing and you don't like that you have to lie to your girlfriend about it. And try to get him to inform his girlfriend so you don't have to keep going behind your girlfriend's back on this. If and when your friend's girlfriend finds out that you knew(you said you and him were close and go out together, so how the heck could you -not- know?), your girlfriend will find out that you lied to her and have concealed this from her. Then you'll be left with diddly squat while also realizing that you actually sided with the bad guy in the situation. I'm not sure why you would want that.

The fact that you were worried enough about this to solicit advice from random strangers online is indicative enough of how messed up your situation is. It's about time you stop running from this thing that's bothering you and just face it. If you care about your friend, talk to your friend. And then, if you care about your girlfriend, be honest with her from now on. No good relationship is mixed up in such willful deceit.

You said you agreed with your friend that now is the time to experience life. Well, now is also the time you have to figure out what kind of life you want to experience. A life of cowardice that sees problems and just tries to shuffle them under a rug out of convenience. Or a life of honesty and respect where people close to you can actually trust that you're not just concealing things from them. If you see a problem, do something about it. Why would you choose the carelessness of a friend who would deceive someone who cares about him? Live and experience a life you can be proud to be a part of.

@Legion_: Like a few people have said, tell your friend to man up and admit to cheating, or at the very least, fucking stop doing it (that 'we're in our 20s' excuse is bullshit), but make sure you explain how it's affecting you relationship, you don't care from a moral perspective (because fuck that noise), but you basically can't keep lying to girlfriend. If he does stop, problem solved, if he doesn't, tell your girlfriend, and again, explain the whole thing. Explain why you lied in the first place, and that this guy is your best friend forever and what not.

The advantage here is that you get a good measure on the people you care about. If he stops, or admits to his girlfriend, that's good, if he keeps going knowing that his actions are jeopardising your relationship, he's an ass. If your girlfriend flips out and blames you for not telling her friend straight away, or isn't willing to work through the problem with you (like if she immediately tells her friend knowing that throws you in the shitter with your best friend), you also get a good read on her.

Under no circumstances tell his girlfriend directly.

The truth is almost always the right course. I think you know the right answer to this situation, it's the admitting it and having the courage to act part that stops most people. But you can do it. And this whole "I get to cheat on my girlfriend because I'm young and I get to live life" is a bunch of bullshit. If this guy is truly a good friend then he should understand your conflict.

@TruthTellah: Fuck. You're one reflected fellow, I'll give you that much. And there's a whole lot of wisdom in yours words. I know for a fact that he is cheating, because he's told me about it everytime, and everytime I've told him how I think what he's doing is wrong. I haven't actually told him how serious me and my girlfriend are getting though, since I've been spending all my time with her for the last month. Come to think of it, I've been a fucking shitty friend in that period. Still, I think if I tell him about my situation, maybe he'll understand that I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. As I've said, he's really a good guy, so there's hope for him yet. This will be my course of action:

• Tell him how serious me and my girlfriend are getting.
• Tell him that I won't reveal his secret, but I'm also not going to lie if she asks me what I know
• Straighten that motherfucker up. He's to fucking smart to be acting like he is now.

I'm pretty confident that this will work. If not, I'm fucked. And I just have to be fine with the idea of losing him as a friend. He's painted himself into a corner. I'm always going to back him up if he needs me, but if he blows me off for this, maybe he's not the friend I thought he was. Painful just writing that. I guess it's time to sink or swim.

Who cares about the quasi-favor they did you by setting you up with that girl. If that guy is a slick piece of shit and his girlfriend finds out, that whole fucking thing is going to explode and it might get exposed that you knew something about it, in which case you would have to get drafted into that dickweeds camp until everything falls apart and blow over, or you can tell them, and then they break up (which they would anyway) and that guy gets his cake stepped on.

And you keep your girl.

There's some good advice on this comment so far, the first being "Snitches get stitches". Never rat out a friend, unless you don't want that friend anymore. Basically snitching should only ever be considered an option if you're willing to erase that person from your life completely. However ratting out someone that trusted you is it's own moral dilemma and you're in one of them right now, you don't want to jump straight into another one. Snitching is never the right option and besides the snitcher usually ends up in the same amount or near as much shit as the snitchee.

The other good bit of advice is to mind your own business. You say it's your friend that has put you in this position, that he's making you lie to your girlfriend and it's either him or her. This isn't the case, you panicked and decided to lie to your girlfriend in a way that implicates you, bad move. You didn't have to vouch for your friend, when your girlfriend asked you about him you could have just as easily said you didn't know and he doesn't really talk about his relationship/s with you but he seems like a cool guy. You've put yourself in this pickle my friend, and now you want people to give you an out and say it's ok to rat on your friend.

The way I would approach it is this, do nothing. You can't take back what you've said without it looking fishy so let it lay. Whenever your girlfriend asks pretty much anything about your friend just say you don't know, or be vague. Don't lie, it's as easy as putting an "I think..." or "I'm not to sure but last time I heard he did..." in front of your otherwise truthful replies. Obviously not all of them just here and there. The point of this is to try and portray that you aren't actually that close to your friend to your girlfriend and you don't know and can't be held responsible for what he is up to ever day of his life. You should have done this last time, you would have only had to do it once. Now you'll have to do it more often to outbalance your first glowing recommendation. Anyway just do that for a while and if the secret ever comes out you can point to the things you've said as proof that you didn't know/he never said anything about it and if it doesn't and your friend straightens out or your relationship becomes long term just forget about it. If your girlfriend is going to break up a good long term relationship because of something a friend of yours did to a friend of hers then she isn't worth it, she's too influenced by her friends and you don't know where that shit might have taken you in the future. You could be somewhere down the road and one of her friends decides she doesn't like you and ends up bitching about you in her ear every time them go out and all of a sudden you're out on your ass with no idea why.

@UlquioKani said:

@TruthTellah said:

@Legion_: Wait, but UlquioKani's catch him in the act idea is horribly misguided. Why would you make this even more like some awful television drama? Really? Conspiring with your friend's girlfriend to catch him in the act? That's a horrible season finale on Lifetime.

Just listen to that first part of what UlquioKani said. Confront him on his bullshit and explain that, unlike him, you can't just lie to your girlfriend. If he doesn't agree to tell her, don't go hatching some ridiculous plan that will just end up blowing up in your face. You've already lied to your girlfriend and said you don't know of anything going on; why make things even worse? You're not having your cake and eating it too. You're already in negative territory here. The best you can do is try to rectify the situation, not just try to weasel out of it.

Don't be like your friend. There's already enough deceit in all of this.

You misunderstand. He doesn't need to conspire with his girlfriend, he just needs to go with his girlfriend to wherever his friend is being unfaithful(like a bar) and have his(Legion's) girlfriend catch him. But you're right, you advice is less likely to explode in his face. I would expect nothing less of TruthTellah

@Legion_: It's early and I'm half asleep and I really shouldn't have replied to you in this condition. I don't want to sabotage your relationship. Sorry

It's alright, UlquioKani. I know you're just trying to help him out. But any plan to direct the friend's girlfriend to catch him is more likely to just leave his friend feeling betrayed and his girlfriend aware of the fact that he has covered this up with him. Having already lied to his girlfriend and tried to cover for him by talking about how great he is, Legion is in the negative. There is no get out of jail free card here. There's only a "Shit, I messed up. I should have handled this better in the first place." card. Not a great card to draw, of course, but it's his best bet. Because it's the only one that has him trying to actually redeem his integrity and do the right thing.

I hope he can be honest with those close to him and somehow still maintain the relationships he cares about. If his friend truly is such a good guy as Legion suggests he is, he'll realize that he has been acting like a careless jerk, spitting on the trust of his girlfriend, and putting unnecessary burdens on his close friend. The only real option here is in honestly confronting the situation. Anything else is just high school nonsense which has no place in a man's life.

Drive to your friend's place, punch him in the jaw (optional), and tell him that he needs to man up.

Being young is a poor excuse for being childish or heartless. This current generation of indecisive, drama-creating boys-until-their-thirties may be fine on How I Met Your Mother but in reality it's idiotic and destructive.

Tell him he needs to do the proper thing and fess up. Explain to him that your girlfriend asked about it and she's going to get the truth, ideally from him but from you if he refuses.

If he wants to screw up his own relationships now and down the line, that's his business. As his friend, explaining any misgivings about it honestly but gently is a natural response. But the moment his actions cause tension between you and your girlfriend they're no longer just his business. If he really is your friend he'll agree that he hasn't any right to prompt you to lie to your girl.

@Phr4nk0: Most of what you are saying falls really flat, consdering he's been my closest friends since I was eight. And my girlfriend knows that we're close. Anyway, I'll direct you towards @TruthTellah and his comments on the matter. I think he has some solid points. Basically where I'm at right now is that I'll tell my friend that I'm not going to rat him out to my girlfriend. However, if she asks me, then I'm not going to lie to her anymore. I'm giving him an option to live up to his mistakes, and I'll be doing the same if my girlfriend asks me what I know.

@Legion_: Seems like you're listening to the best advice here so good on you for that, but there's something else to think about that hasn't really been brought up. Consider the girl that's being cheated on.

If finding out the truth about your friend is gonna end their relationship then every day she remains in ignorance is a waste of her young life. Hey, she probably wants to go fuck as many people as possible too, but she's restraining herself under the lie that she's in a monogamous relationship.

I think the best course (as others have said) is to have him tell her, you aren't obligated to be the messenger. But just keep it in the front of your mind that every day he waits, might be the day that she could have met another guy who actually wanted her.

@joshwent: I get that, but I could never tell her what I know. It's not my place. She's a fantastic girl and all, and I really think my friend cares for her. Ideally, they'll stick togheter, because they're a pretty great match. But I know where my loyalties lie. Sometimes that's going to make you angry as hell, but that's how it is. Still, I'm going to have a talk with him today, man to man.

I've lied one time to my girlfriend, and not to make exuses, but that was before we actually were together. But that doesn't matter, because that was also the last fucking time. I'm not a good liar. A fact I'm pretty pleased with. One way or another, this ends today.

@Legion_ said:

I know for a fact that he is cheating, because he's told me about it everytime, and everytime I've told him how I think what he's doing is wrong.

As I've said, he's really a good guy, so there's hope for him yet.

No, your friend is not a "really good guy." It doesn't sound like he has cheated on a girl he had a crush on for years whom he accidentally ended up in a room naked with. He's intentionally cheating on his girlfriend behind her back and bragging to you each time he does. He's a prick, and you need better friends.

@Legion_ said:

@TruthTellah: Fuck. You're one reflected fellow, I'll give you that much. And there's a whole lot of wisdom in yours words. I know for a fact that he is cheating, because he's told me about it everytime, and everytime I've told him how I think what he's doing is wrong. I haven't actually told him how serious me and my girlfriend are getting though, since I've been spending all my time with her for the last month. Come to think of it, I've been a fucking shitty friend in that period. Still, I think if I tell him about my situation, maybe he'll understand that I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. As I've said, he's really a good guy, so there's hope for him yet. This will be my course of action:

• Tell him how serious me and my girlfriend are getting.
• Tell him that I won't reveal his secret, but I'm also not going to lie if she asks me what I know
• Straighten that motherfucker up. He's to fucking smart to be acting like he is now.

I'm pretty confident that this will work. If not, I'm fucked.

To be frank, you're already fucked. That's why you're talking to us in the first place.

I can tell you this. A lot of people wonder: "What do women want?" And the simple answer is: They want someone they can trust. And if your answer is to still be quiet on this, you're actively exhibiting that this woman should not trust you. If she eventually asks about it again and you say, "Yeah, he's cheating on her.", she'll remember that you lied to her originally, and she'll see how comfortable you are with concealing things from her. That's why I'm saying that either your friend needs to fess up now like an adult and beg for his girlfriend's forgiveness, or if he can't be convinced to do it, you tell your girlfriend that you know. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before she finds out and realizes that you have been willfully covering your friend on this. And even in the scenario of you telling your girlfriend, you'll still need to pray that she appreciates that you were -eventually- honest with her. Because make no mistake. You're already in the shit; all you can do now is try to rectify the situation as best you can.

Best case scenario is that your friend really is a good guy and realizes that he can't continue this, but if not, he may not be the guy you really owe your loyalty to anymore. And if that's the case, then you should just be honest with your girlfriend and hope she's an understanding individual. This isn't a situation for half-hearted efforts. Don't waste anymore time. Making this right is the only real option you have.

One more thing to consider:

A friend of mine got an STD from her now ex-boyfriend because he was cheating on her. If you keep quiet about this and he ends up unknowingly passing something on to her, you're gonna feel really crappy.

Like TruthTellah says you're already fucked. I'm still not convinced letting the truth free is you're best option, like he said you've lied you just have to hope she can get over it. Id be inclined to have that talk with your friend but not to tell him to fess up, tell him to either stop doing it, or stop telling you about it, or break it off with the girl. Tell him you don't want to lie to your girlfriend and he's forcing that on you but don't tell him you're going to out him, tell him he needs to pick one of those options, him coming clean just exposes you for a lier.

I don't know how your relationship is but there's been a couple of times where my girlfriend has asked something my friend didn't want other people to know. I flat out told her look I can't say, he trusts me and I told him I wouldn't tell and I'm not going to lie to you about it, you can draw your own conclusions from that. That's your best option behind claiming ignorance. I feel TruthTellah and me are like the angel and devil on your shoulders, I recognize that TruthTellah is telling you the "right" thing to do but personally I don't believe you'll end up in the best position because of it. I guess its a question of your morals, but just remember just because you do the thing that is morally right doesn't mean one or all involved wont end up hurt or hating you. It's up to you and your beliefs.

Well, first off, this situation fucking sucks.

Your friend is a dick and it would easy for me to sit here and say you should tell his girlfriend because you should but I get that while he's an asshole, he's still friend and to sell him out like that is really hard to do. But if you're afraid that this could eventually ruin your relationship with your girlfriend, you have to do something. Your friend may hate you for it and he may never speak to you again but in the end, you gotta look out for yourself. Not to mention, if your friend can get girls so easily, then what the fuck does he care about some girl across the country? Why does he bother with her at all?

@Legion_ Two questions about this conundrum.

1. Is he your best friend for the history of ever? You know the kind of friend I'm talking about. Thick and thin. Sickness and health. Got your back in a dark alley type of friend.

2. Is he worth losing instead of your girlfriend?

Answer those two questions and you should have your answer.

From a medical view, you should tell because if he is sleeping around that could endanger her health. STDs are no joke, not even the mild ones (except for syphilis which can still be easily treated with penicillin). If he's sleeping around, he runs the risk of transferring HIV to her, and while HIV is no longer a death sentence, it's still a nasty retrovirus. And even if he uses "safe" sex, he still runs the risk of giving her HIV - condoms only work 98% of the time. Don't get me wrong - safe sex is better than unsafe sex, but you can't have perfectly safe sex. And no, you can't "tell" who has HIV unless they've progressed to AIDS. You can have HIV in your system for 5 or even 10 years and still look healthy. So don't sleep around because that's a good way to get HIV or a range of STDs, none of which are pleasant. Sleeping around has consequences. And no, I'm not a religious fusspot. I'm agnostic/atheistic. But I also happen to be a medical student who knows exactly how bad STDs can be.

From an ethical view.... it's really up to him to tell her, but if she asks you directly, then you should be honest and tell her the truth. That's what I would do. He's kind of a jerk for doing what he's doing. Being good in one area doesn't excuse being bad in other areas. So what does it matter if he's good to you, if he's bad to his girlfriend and if he's endangering her health? If a close friend of yours took up robbing stores, you'd still report them to the police, right? It's not about how he treats you - if he treats others badly, then that's wrong and you are aiding him if you let him do it.

You should tell her the truth. Your friend's a jerk. Don't get yourself in trouble trying to cover up his deceit. Come clean about it. If your friend gets mad and stops being your friend over it, it's his loss, dude. You wouldn't want a friend like that anyway. If he has any decency at all, he'll learn to forgive you for it because you're doing the right thing.

That sounds like quite a conundrum, OP

hope you figure it out and things work out.

Would be funny though if your GF ends up dumping you for lying and his GF ends up dumping him for cheating. That's exactly the sort of thing that would happen if this were a drama. So maybe that's what you want to avoid. In that case I suppose the only option is to tell your GF the truth at the expense of your bud.

I can theorize there are 2 ways to go about this, you can dish out the justice (act like your bud got what he deserved) or you can do it as passively as you can. (act like it wasnt your fault and you had no choice. This means you tell your GF only what she asks and do no more.) You do want to be honest to your GF however. SHE MUST NOT feel like you're giving her the runaround when answering her. The primary directive is to salvage your relationship with your GF.

THEIR relationship is beyond your control, YOUR relationship is not.

For the record I have never dated anyone ever, am a virgin and have no experience whatsoever with girls. Ciao.

Pardon my French, but your friend sounds like a big ass douche. Still, and for the sake of friendship (although I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a guy like that-- but hey, that's me), talk to him first. But my advice would be to always tell the truth.

This is all a bunch of shit, you're worried your girl will get hurt because your friend is cheating on hers? Fucking ridiculous, let your friend do what he wants if he's 20 I'm pretty sure he can make his own goddamn decisions, and when they all eventualy find out just say you didnt know anything!

@TruthTellah: This turned out a lot better than I thought. I took your advice and confronted my friend about the problem. He actually was really understanding, and said that I should tell my girlfriend what I know, and that he had gotten himself into this mess. So I went home, and took a tough choice. I told her everything I know, and that I had lied to her once about it. And she was really understanding. She understood that it was hard for me to sell out my friend, and she actually appriciated that I took my time to find out what I wanted. She now knows that she can fully trust me, and that I'm also loyal to my friends, but that she's the one I'll choose everytime. And it felt great to finally admit that to myself. I think she knows that I've let my guard down now, and let her all the way in.

Thank you Giant Bomb community, you are fucking great!

Heck yeah! That's awesome, man. Congratulations.

Seems I was wrong then. For now...

Your loyalty to a friend is commendable but you should really take a closer look at it to make sure it isn't entirely misplaced. Just be careful. Hope things continue to work out.

Except for your friend. I hope he gets his comeuppance.

Sounds like you made great work of the situation. I congratulate you, sir!

@Red said:

Give your friend an ultimatum, saying that if he doesn't tell his girlfriend about his douchebaggery then you will. Boom.

A pretty solid piece of advice, I approve.

Your friend is a piece of shit. People who you call friends reflects on your character.

Fuck your buddy! Rat him the fuck out! He should have thought about the consequences of his actions. And you should apologize to your girlfriend for lying to her.

@Legion_: Do not tell on him without giving him notice first. You have been watching all this time without saying anything so he thinks you're on his side. Make sure he knows beforehand that you aren't ok with it or you will have just pulled a dick move out of the blue.

@Legion_: Well good. I hope you'll remember this in the future. There's no sense in getting what you want if you have to sacrifice some of your honor and honesty in the process; you can always choose what kind of man you will be.

I'm glad it seems to have turned out alright; though, this kind of thing can take time to really settle. Good luck with it, man.

My advice is to talk to your friend about it first and based on his reaction do what you think is right, tell him hes put you in a bad spot and say you cant cover for him forever.

EDIT: Never mind, looks like your crisis was adverted so... ignore this shit!

It boils down to this:

@Legion_ said:

I'm thinking there's actually a future with her.

There won't be if you keep lying to her.

Edit: Well, never mind. I'm glad everything worked out in your favor.

Before you say anything to the girl, talk to the guy. Tell him you think it's fucked up and that he should break up with his girlfriend or you're going to tell her.

Tell your friend to stop being an asshole

Your friend is a piece of shit and you need better friends