Am I a male chauvinist

So I had a bit of an incident at work today, and I've been thinking about it ever since I got home. I may be opening a can of worms but whatever.

What basically happened was that I was sitting inside the break room minding my own business and this woman I work with was talking with some other co workers about something about women's right's and some study about something (wasn't really paying attention). Anyway all of a sudden she turns to me and asks "Are you a feminist?" I answered honestly "nope I am not".

She then looked shocked like I had just denied the holocaust and said something along the lines of, "either you are a feminist or you are a chauvinist". I just sort of said sorry and I meant no offense and returned to not paying attention.

Now, I have never thought of women or anyone really as inferior to me, but am I still a chauvinist even though I don't consider myself a feminist?

=|

..........

What.

I am feeling to laze to check out what "chauvinist" means so I give her the benefit of the doubt.

@Simplexity said:

She then looked shocked like I had just denied the holocaust and said something along the lines of, "either you are a feminist or you are a chauvinist".

Lol, what a bitch. That's definitely not true.

Y-Yes? No wait, no.

Well it always comes down to what the definition of feminism is. The one that holds most currency is simply the wish for equality, however defined, between the sexes. If you do not sign on to that then you might be at least a candidate 'male chauvinist' honestly.

I do recognize though that this is a very shitty definition on all levels, not the least logically, because the word feminism is not gender neutral. The feminists that want a privileged position in society for women also call themselves feminists and have a greater claim to the title than those that merely wants to balance the feminine and masculine genders in society - so one ought not to ever use the word feminism to describe gender equality.

You should've punched her in the throat.

@Regal said:

I do recognize though that this is a very shitty definition on all levels, not the least logically, because the word feminism is not gender neutral. The feminists that want a privileged position in society for women also call themselves feminists and have a greater claim to the title than those that merely wants to balance the feminine and masculine genders in society - so one ought not to ever use the word feminism to describe gender equality.

This is exactly why I hate the term 'feminism'. The term just suggests flipping from one inequality to another.

Ignore those kind of people, they're hatemongers.

It's more about your actions than a label.

lol not your fault dude. Don't think on it too much.

@BeachThunder said:

@Regal said:

I do recognize though that this is a very shitty definition on all levels, not the least logically, because the word feminism is not gender neutral. The feminists that want a privileged position in society for women also call themselves feminists and have a greater claim to the title than those that merely wants to balance the feminine and masculine genders in society - so one ought not to ever use the word feminism to describe gender equality.

This is exactly why I hate the term 'feminism'. The term just suggests flipping from one inequality to another.

Yeah I guess my problem is that I don't quite get what feminism' ultimate goal is and I don't know if anyone really knows.

I certainly think women should have the same rights and opportunities as men but is that feminism's final goal? And if it is, is it not already sort of accomplished? At least where I live I can't really think of many instances where women are being oppressed or anything like that.

But what do I know I guess.

Nope. She's just a bitch.

@Mcmurrow said:

I sense a female user will post a angrily comment on this thread.

No. She's just a cunt.

I was going to say something about how that woman was totally in the wrong but responding with sexism in kind was not a whole lot better.

Then I remembered that this is Giant Bomb and the internet.

So never mind.

I don't think that calling her a "cunt" was responding with sexism in kind. It certainly isn't the word I would use - I don't too much like the word - but it is a fitting word nonetheless.

Unless you're talking about where the word came from, in which case have you ever called someone a "dick"?

Something about this sounds suspicious. Can't put my finger on it, but something isn't right.

Well in it's purest sense, feminism is simply advocating equality of women. That makes pretty much any reasonable human being a feminist. The issue arises when certain "feminists" actively discriminate against men and are essentially sexist, not feminist. That leads to confusion all over the place about what feminism actually means.

She's being too binary about it. Ignore and move on.

@Aleryn said:

She's being too binary about it. Ignore and move on.

I believe someone in here mentioned a punch to the throat, and I would like to firmly place myself in whichever camp supports that.

Also, I had always taken the term feminist to mean a more active advocate of women's rights rather than a passive one. Can anyone clarify?

@Simplexity said:

@BeachThunder said:

@Regal said:

I do recognize though that this is a very shitty definition on all levels, not the least logically, because the word feminism is not gender neutral. The feminists that want a privileged position in society for women also call themselves feminists and have a greater claim to the title than those that merely wants to balance the feminine and masculine genders in society - so one ought not to ever use the word feminism to describe gender equality.

This is exactly why I hate the term 'feminism'. The term just suggests flipping from one inequality to another.

Yeah I guess my problem is that I don't quite get what feminism' ultimate goal is and I don't know if anyone really knows.

I certainly think women should have the same rights and opportunities as men but is that feminism's final goal? And if it is, is it not already sort of accomplished? At least where I live I can't really think of many instances where women are being oppressed or anything like that.

But what do I know I guess.

Well, I wouldn't say it's accomplished... Definitely better than it used to be, but women still get paid less than men working the same kinds of jobs, on average, and hold fewer positions of power and influence than men. (or am I wrong on this I don't research the shit I say on a videogame website) But this particular woman sounds like a moron (in this one aspect, I should say), and an absolutist one at that. I wouldn't take anything she says in this regard very seriously, myself. I'd call her an absolutist moron and go on with my day.

@pyromagnestir: I dunno in Norway we have plenty of Women in power, most of our political parties are led by Women etc, and as far as I know women earn the same as men over here.

I would have sad "No, I believe in treating everyone equally." then dropped whatever I was holding on the floor and strut away like a boss.

@Simplexity said:

@BeachThunder said:

@Regal said:

I do recognize though that this is a very shitty definition on all levels, not the least logically, because the word feminism is not gender neutral. The feminists that want a privileged position in society for women also call themselves feminists and have a greater claim to the title than those that merely wants to balance the feminine and masculine genders in society - so one ought not to ever use the word feminism to describe gender equality.

This is exactly why I hate the term 'feminism'. The term just suggests flipping from one inequality to another.

Yeah I guess my problem is that I don't quite get what feminism' ultimate goal is and I don't know if anyone really knows.

I certainly think women should have the same rights and opportunities as men but is that feminism's final goal? And if it is, is it not already sort of accomplished? At least where I live I can't really think of many instances where women are being oppressed or anything like that.

But what do I know I guess.

What about pay discrepancies? Or sexual stereotypes in the media? Or this thing Patrick pointed out?

Next time something like this happens, straight up ask her "What do you mean by 'feminist'?" Tried and true method to see if people are trying to catch you out and make you look like an idiot.

And then if she says something about looking for equality for everyone, then sure, you could unintentionally be a feminist. It's all in the definition, which is hard to pin down anyway. So no dude, you're not a male chauvinist in my opinion.

@crusader8463 said:

I would have sad "No, I believe in treating everyone equally." then dropped whatever I was holding on the floor and strut away like a boss.

That's what feminism is, which is exactly why she acted the way she did.

What?

Here's my post from my blog on feminism! Very relevant :P.

I am very much a feminist. I get into many arguments with men about how poorly women are treated still. However, this lady in question seems to be painting a complex issue into a simple black or white issue, where there are many shades of grey ...... probably 50 of them.

The fact that she wants to paint it so simple mean she is just looking for a fight and is better ignored, unless you are in the mood for a wider discussion woth her. You don't have to state yourself as a feminist as a baseline position means you believe in equality and that should be fine without having to label yourself. You are only a chauvinist if you believe woman are inferior and treat them as such.

@Simplexity: Again, bear in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about. None. But it seems to me equality is not yet fully at hand.

you may not be (I don't know enough about you to say, and she was definitely too quick to judge) but theres lots of chauvinists in this thread already lol

@Simplexity:

@Meowshi said:

@crusader8463 said:

I would have sad "No, I believe in treating everyone equally." then dropped whatever I was holding on the floor and strut away like a boss.

That's what feminism is, which is exactly why she acted the way she did.

As said before, there is too much of a grey area in what people view that term in. When I hear that term I picture a crazy, ugly, lesbian, man hating, fem nazi that goes out of their way to hate on anything with a penis. If they took the time to explain what they meant by the term then you could have elaborated on it, but given the way the OP described the situation the lady in question seemed like the above mentioned and not someone who was looking to have a sane conversation with.

Naa, shes sounds like a bit of an arsewipe to me.

Next time you see her, hold a door open for her. Shit will drive her crazy.

What is generally referred to as chauvinism is more specifically male chauvinism. Feminism is really just female chauvinism.

Male chauvinism wants women to be subservient as a gender, while female chauvinism wants men to be subservient.

Explain to her that you're not gender biased in either direction (you're not, right?), and you would prefer genders to learn to respect the differences (because they do exist), but to respect both equally.

Men and women are not identical, but they are equal. Men do some things better than women, and women do some things better than men. The problem only arrises when self-important jackasses start assigning values to those gender-specialties.

Most CEOs are male, and most homemakers are women. That's only an issue for someone who thinks one occupation is worth more than the other. A lot of feminists have helped destroy equality be devaluing gender-biased roles.

EDIT: But we haven't arrived at gender equality. A woman doing the same job as a man still makes less. It's ridiculous that that still exists.

And I couldn't help myself... I do not actually endorse the notion of throwing this woman into the television, just to be clear.

@Animasta said:

you may not be (I don't know enough about you to say, and she was definitely too quick to judge) but theres lots of chauvinists in this thread already lol

You seem like someone that is more clued into this whole feminism thing than I am, so I guess you could probably answer my question , even if I don't consider myself a feminist or really know anything about them nor do I really care all that much but still have never thought of women or anyone really as inferior to myself do I qualify as a chauvinist?

Touch her shoulder.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist, but I believe in equal rights. The word feminist has become way too much associated in my mind with misandry. For every rational feminist I've seen, there's five more who act like they would like nothing more then to spit on me for being born with a dick.

@Simplexity said:

@Animasta said:

you may not be (I don't know enough about you to say, and she was definitely too quick to judge) but theres lots of chauvinists in this thread already lol

You seem like someone that is more clued into this whole feminism thing than I am, so I guess you could probably answer my question , even if I don't consider myself a feminist or really know anything about them nor do I really care all that much but still have never thought of women or anyone really as inferior to myself do I qualify as a chauvinist?

nah. I'm specifically talking about anyone that called her a cunt; gendered insults aren't cool.

I'd just say that you should be more... thoughtful, I guess, of people's positions. What you should have done is ask her what feminism means to her, because that word is very broad.

Holy fuck I hate the GB community sometimes. "Cunt, cunt, cunt." Real nice, guys.

@DeeGee said:

I wouldn't call myself a feminist, but I believe in equal rights. The word feminist has become way too much associated in my mind with misandry. For every rational feminist I've seen, there's five more who act like they would like nothing more then to spit on me for being born with a dick.

I think the perfect word that you are looking for is egalitarian. I feel the same way as you do. It's just that many feminists ruined the reputation of the word 'feminist' and unfortunately, all people think of when they hear feminist is: middle to upper class lesbian white girl who flips their shit over anything, especially males.

@pyromagnestir said:

And I couldn't help myself... I do not actually endorse the notion of throwing this woman into the television, just to be clear.

But what is your position on whores?

@believer258 said:

@Mcmurrow said:

I sense a female user will post a angrily comment on this thread.

No. She's just a cunt.

I was going to say something about how that woman was totally in the wrong but responding with sexism in kind was not a whole lot better.

Then I remembered that this is Giant Bomb and the internet.

So never mind.

I don't think that calling her a "cunt" was responding with sexism in kind. It certainly isn't the word I would use - I don't too much like the word - but it is a fitting word nonetheless.

Unless you're talking about where the word came from, in which case have you ever called someone a "dick"?

The first part said that could be construde as sexist is "I sense a female user will post a angrily comment on this thread" as it suggests that the opinion on this is divided by gender and that men cannot believe that he was in the wrong (whether he is or not isn't relative to that being sexist, I personally don't think that he was but assuming that only women can believe that - or to the extremes of stereotypes saying that only women can get angry at such an issue is nonsense).

Still I don't think @falserelic meant anything by it. Just like I realised a bunch of people I know didn't mean to be sexist when a question arose about if people would rather end racism or sexism and two girls said sexism erupting in one of the others immediatly saying "well you would say that". Nothing was really meant by it, it was just a simply reaction (one that should be pointed out when it happens as "that's not okay" but not anything to get annoyed about.

The "Cunt" one on the other hand was again almost certainly not meant in a sexist way, but it is extremely unwise as it is used quite strongly to demean and suppress femininity (either by insulting men (and other genders) who seem effeminate or by insult women specifically. It is very unwise to use that word when insulting people in exactly the same way that calling someone a "Nigger" or other racial stereotypes is unwise; cunt as extreme connotations of abuse towards women so using it while staying blind to it isn't a good thing to do; even if the person uses it equally to everyone, the use of it to a woman will be constude as even more offensive as when people react to it they have no understanding of when the person would usually use it to know if it was a normal insult or if it was a gender specific one.

It has nothing to do with its origins from sexual organs, it is about the abuse that it holds and its links to slavery, trafficking and suppression of rights in society.

You should have said: "Only a sith deals in absolutes."

Point to your crotch with both hands, palms facing each other. Your hands should form a triangle. Make a soft hissing sound. Problem solved.

@Animasta said:

@Simplexity said:

@Animasta said:

you may not be (I don't know enough about you to say, and she was definitely too quick to judge) but theres lots of chauvinists in this thread already lol

You seem like someone that is more clued into this whole feminism thing than I am, so I guess you could probably answer my question , even if I don't consider myself a feminist or really know anything about them nor do I really care all that much but still have never thought of women or anyone really as inferior to myself do I qualify as a chauvinist?

nah. I'm specifically talking about anyone that called her a cunt; gendered insults aren't cool.

I'd just say that you should be more... thoughtful, I guess, of people's positions. What you should have done is ask her what feminism means to her, because that word is very broad.

I don't know what the deal is in the US (I think you take more offence to the word), but over in the UK, cunt is no way a gendered insult. Sure, it's named after a female body part but it's not used to insult women. It's used to insult anyone.

@Skytylz said:

You should have said: "Only a sith deals in absolutes."

@Jimbo said:

Next time you see her, hold a door open for her. Shit will drive her crazy.

I did this once to show some girl I'd had an argument with that I had no hard feelings, and she scoffed at me like I was patronizing her. Do this OP, it works.