Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

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Fredchuckdave

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Edited By Fredchuckdave

Poll Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot (46 votes)

Jeff Bagwell 24%
Craig Biggio 35%
Barry Bonds 24%
Roger Clemens 22%
Tom Glavine 41%
Jeff Kent 7%
Edgar Martinez 24%
Don Mattingly 24%
Fred McGriff 11%
Mark McGwire 17%
Jack Morris 15%
Mike Mussina 13%
Rafael Palmeiro 9%
Mike Piazza 35%
Tim Raines 15%
Curt Schilling 46%
Lee Smith 7%
Sammy Sosa 11%
Frank Thomas 59%
Alan Trammell 9%
Larry Walker 11%
Moises Alou 15%
Armando Benitez 4%
Sean Casey 7%
Ray Durham 4%
Eric Gagne 7%
Luis Gonzalez 7%
Jacque Jones 2%
Todd Jones 2%
Paul Lo Duca 2%
Hideo Nomo 11%
Kenny Rogers 2%
Richie Sexson 4%
J.T. Snow 2%
Mike Timlin 4%

'Tis the season of absurd hall of fame arguments and I'm just curious if anyone has any grandiose opinions on this subject. Jack Morris for example is a solid pitcher but unremarkable except for a few particular games in the 1991 postseason; yet he seems on track for election. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens; 2 of the 10 best players of all time are on this ballot for the second year, beyond all potential reasoning (75% is required for election, each received less than 40% last year.

Curt Schilling, of Video Games fame, is on this ballot and was a damn good pitcher; but he was also kind of a douche, I imagine if people liked him more he'd have gone in first or second ballot. Douche-factor is an incredibly valid piece of reasoning when considering a player's on the field activities.

Frank Thomas, my favorite player of all time, is on this ballot and will probably get like 72% or something this year just to spite me. I don't give a fuck about steroids but if it helps Frank get elected he was the only player to voluntarily participate in the famed Mitchell report of legends; mayhap the anti-steroid sentiment is strong enough to propel Frank to well deserved first-ballotdom. He was the Albert Pujols of the 90s with just an incredible peak and then perpetual injuries afterward.

Really, aside from the first ever Hall of Fame year this is the most loaded class ever because of rigorous anti-steroid and "steroid-suspicion" biases. No one was elected last year despite a dozen or so viable candidates, so this year there's 17 or 18 viable candidates. The maximum a BBWAA (Baseball Writers) ballot can hold is 10 candidates, but a lot of these guys are old and quite retarded so they'll probably only vote for 5 or something.

Greg Maddux is not quite as good as Clemens but also has no ties to steroids and is a top 6 or 7 starting pitcher, and maybe the all-time great "soft tosser;" but since Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Rickey Henderson, Cal Ripken, and Tom Seaver didn't get 100% of the vote neither will he. If anything he might only get like 95% of the vote or something absurdly low for a player of this caliber. People are turning in blank ballots as protest of the Steroid era. He's also quite low in terms of douche-factor all time, and this ballot is loaded with douche-factor champions such as Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Roger Clemens, and the aforementioned Schilling.

Sean Casey, perhaps the nicest man to ever live on the planet, is also on this ballot; can lack of douchiness propel him to the Hall of Fame despite terrible numbers? Certainly not, but that won't stop old people from voting for Jack Morris.

 • 
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Fredchuckdave

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Maddux isn't in the poll options! Bwahahaha... Oops.

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Feanor

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ll_Exile_ll

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#3  Edited By ll_Exile_ll

Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux are clear cut first ballot in my mind. I also voted for Schilling, Biggio, Thomas, and Jeff Kent (though the years in which in his power mostly came are suspect, I don't recall him being directly tied to or even being mentioned in regards to any PED stuff).

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PatODay

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Eric Gagne being on the ballot is a joke.

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PsychoPenguin

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Pete Rose should be on the ballot.

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e30bmw

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#6  Edited By e30bmw

I know he probably won't get in (definitely not first ballot), but I'll always be a huge fan of Mike Mussina.

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InternetDotCom

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#7  Edited By InternetDotCom

@psychopenguin said:

Pete Rose should be on the ballot.

You can't gamble on the game. That is basically the number 1 rule and he broke it.

He should never be on it.

This year I would go with.

  • Clemens
  • Bonds
  • Maddux
  • Raines
  • Biggio
  • Bagwell
  • Piazza
  • Martinez
  • Glavine
  • Thomas

There are a few you could switch around because the limit for voters is 10 and there are more than 10 worthy names

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ArtisanBreads

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#8  Edited By ArtisanBreads

When will they ever give up this stupid "steriods" argument when MLB clearly looked the other way and dudes who just happened not to get caught get a free pass. Such a joke.

Clemens, Sosa, Bonds, McGuire, etc all need to be in.

As far as pitchers besides Clemens, obviously Maddux, Galvine, and Schilling. All three have to be locks. Huge fans of them through their careers (back when I was super into baseball) and all three deserve it.

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MightyDuck

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Greg Maddux is a clear cut first ballot HOFer if you ask me. I'm also hoping Craig Biggio makes the cut this time. I was a 2B in Little League and he was definitely one of my favorites. I'm also hoping Frank Thomas gets enough votes as well. Nice to see a guy who did it cleanly and did it right.

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DBrim

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Bagwell/Biggio/Bonds/Clemens/Glavine/Martinez/Mussina/Piazza/Raines/Schilling/Thomas/Trammell/Walker

Also Maddux.

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deactivated-61356eb4a76c8

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Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are the ones I really care about.

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ll_Exile_ll

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@psychopenguin said:

Pete Rose should be on the ballot.

You can't gamble on the game. That is basically the number 1 rule and he broke it.

He should never be on it.

This year I would go with.

  • Clemens
  • Bonds
  • Maddux
  • Raines
  • Biggio
  • Bagwell
  • Piazza
  • Martinez
  • Glavine
  • Thomas

There are a few you could switch around because the limit for voters is 10 and there are more than 10 worthy names

Saying Pete Rose should never get in and then expressing support for Clemens and Bonds is extremely hypocritical. Pete Rose certainly broke the rules, just as the steroid users did, but he didn't cheat like steroid users did. The worst he could have possibly done as a gambler is lose on purpose (and there is no evidence he did that), while steroid users gave themselves an unfair advantage.

Both of those scenarios tarnish the integrity of the game, but only one of them artificially inflates the apparent skill of those involved.

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Fredchuckdave

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#13  Edited By Fredchuckdave

@e30bmw: Mussina definitely deserves to get in, but at this rate it could take like 10 years; I'd say he's a solid 2nd ballot choice in some void where steroids isn't a voting issue. His vs batter stats are quite interesting.

@patoday: Being on the ballot is as simple as 10 years in the league, 5 years after you retired. It doesn't matter how well you played. Minimum 5% to stay on the ballot for another year, maximum of 15 years.

Glavine is fine, he's just not nearly as good as some of the other starting pitchers on the ballot so I can't see him going this year; it is a crime that Jack Morris has a better chance of getting in than he does though.

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Milkman

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#14  Edited By Milkman

The whole hall is a joke until they stop trying to pretend like the steroid era never happened. Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, all those guys should be in. You're never going to erase them from history.

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Karl_Boss

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Pete Rose should be on the ballot.

Agreed, I feel like he will eventually.

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PimblyCharles

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I'm a big Roger Clemens fan, and even though all the nasty shit that went down late in his career, he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. The guy has fucking earned it.

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Muzhik

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Maddux gets in easy, and I hope Frank Thomas does. I hope Mike Mussina can get in eventually cause he was really great and very consistent.

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PimblyCharles

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@milkman said:

The whole hall is a joke until they stop trying to pretend like the steroid era never happened. Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, all those guys should be in. You're never going to erase them from history.

Couldn't agree more! They have all well earned there way into the Hall of Fame. All those guys are legends imo and should be forgiven for trying to continue their careers at their age with steroids. I live about 2 hours from the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. That place is awesome, and highly recommend baseball fans to go there once in their life.

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GooieGreen

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You can do it, Curt! I kinda feel bad about how a passing look at your name could offend someone and how you lost all of your money in a botched attempt at what many gamers dream of... but you were pretty decent ballplayer.

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InternetDotCom

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#20  Edited By InternetDotCom

@ll_exile_ll: MLB practically supported the steroid era. The steroid guys is also swinging a blind bat in lots of cases. People aren't voting for Bagwell and Piazza despite there being no evidence they actually did anything.

Not betting on the game has been a rule basically forever.

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Fredchuckdave

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#21  Edited By Fredchuckdave

Yeah, steroids is not the same as what Pete Rose did. Steroids are more like the rampant amphetamine usage in the 60's/70's that included such paragons of virtue as Willie Mays and Hank Aaron (and everyone else), it's just stupid and hypocritical to not vote for someone because of it when so many things up to and including racism and sexism haven't impacted voting in the past. Pete Rose should definitely be in the hall of fame but only by special election from the commissioner, not happening with Bud Selig.

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Dalai

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Maddux and Glavine should be automatic at this point being two of the most dominant pitchers in the steroid era. Biggio got to 3000 hits and was one of the most consistent, durable hitters of his time and deserves to be in. I'd even let McGwire and Clemens in despite the steroid use, especially McGwire since he's been much more open to his steroid use and has said he regrets using PEDs. I'd recommend Bonds since he was the most feared hitter for several years and broke several records, but that obstruction of justice conviction doesn't sit well with me and I'd let him sweat it out for a few years.

As for the others...

  • Bagwell, Thomas, Mussina, Piazza, Raines and Sosa all deserve to be in at some point in the future.
  • Palmeiro... maybe, but he played 3rd wheel to McGwire and Sosa in the PED race so I'm not sure if he should be in or not.
  • Morris, Mattingly, Trammell and Smith are the old fucks of the group and at this point the reason they're not in yet is telling. Morris was just solid, but was never truly great except for a few instances in his career. Mattingly peaked way too early and simply became an okay hitter by the time he was 30. Smith was a very good closer, but there's really no precedent set for closers right now. The only closers I'd even consider are Hoffman and Rivera, neither of them are eligible for a few years. And Trammell just doesn't have the stats to warrant consideration.
  • McGriff is iffy only because he was never the kind of player who was never truly dominant. A very good player with solid power numbers, but never someone who can hit 40 HRs or hit .300 annually.
  • Walker is gonna get hit for playing several years in Colorado in that altitude since nobody is really going to compliment him on his few decent years in Montreal.
  • And Schilling, if it weren't for a 4-year stretch where he was virtually unstoppable and that bloody sock deal, he wouldn't even be considered.
  • The rest of them, fuck 'em. They're not worth talking about.

Now free Pete Rose and let's play some ball.

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Slag

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Biggio should have been a slam dunk. 3k hits, allstar and gold glover at 3 positions including Catcher.

Maddux, Glavine, Morris and Big Hurt all belong.

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rentfn

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Mike Timlin has all of the rings!!!!

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Fredchuckdave

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@dalai: Trammell has a better HoF case than Ozzie Smith. Lee Smith will probably get in on the Veteran's committee at some point. Mattingly and Morris aren't particularly deserving.

Curt Schilling has the best K/BB in the history of the game (well assuming you don't count the 1800s), which is the most predictive stat when it comes to pitchers, better than Pedro Martinez, better than Mariano Rivera. Apart from everything else if postseason success can get Jack Morris in then it should have gotten Curt in on the first ballot with like 85-90%. Looking at BWAR he's actually fourth on the ballot behind Clemens, Maddux, and Mussina but still a great season or so ahead of Tom Glavine.

Clemens is uh the best pitcher other than the Big Train and Cy Young, but he won't be going in this year. For Bonds it just gets insane, Bonds is fucking Willie Mays and then he's fucking Babe Ruth; the dude is an incomparable monster. Baseball is a game of failure, yes? Well Bonds had an OBP of 0.559 from 2001-2004; including the 1st and 2nd highest seasons of all time. Dude had 120 intentional walks in 2004, that's more than all but 81 players in history have had over the course of their entire career. Take any other hitter on this ballot and multiply them by two and they might, maybe be as good as Bonds.

No Caption Provided

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TyCobb

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#26  Edited By TyCobb

I'd like to see Mattingly in there.

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Claude

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@dalai said:

Maddux and Glavine should be automatic at this point being two of the most dominant pitchers in the steroid era. Biggio got to 3000 hits and was one of the most consistent, durable hitters of his time and deserves to be in. I'd even let McGwire and Clemens in despite the steroid use, especially McGwire since he's been much more open to his steroid use and has said he regrets using PEDs. I'd recommend Bonds since he was the most feared hitter for several years and broke several records, but that obstruction of justice conviction doesn't sit well with me and I'd let him sweat it out for a few years.

As for the others...

  • Bagwell, Thomas, Mussina, Piazza, Raines and Sosa all deserve to be in at some point in the future.
  • Palmeiro... maybe, but he played 3rd wheel to McGwire and Sosa in the PED race so I'm not sure if he should be in or not.
  • Morris, Mattingly, Trammell and Smith are the old fucks of the group and at this point the reason they're not in yet is telling. Morris was just solid, but was never truly great except for a few instances in his career. Mattingly peaked way too early and simply became an okay hitter by the time he was 30. Smith was a very good closer, but there's really no precedent set for closers right now. The only closers I'd even consider are Hoffman and Rivera, neither of them are eligible for a few years. And Trammell just doesn't have the stats to warrant consideration.
  • McGriff is iffy only because he was never the kind of player who was never truly dominant. A very good player with solid power numbers, but never someone who can hit 40 HRs or hit .300 annually.
  • Walker is gonna get hit for playing several years in Colorado in that altitude since nobody is really going to compliment him on his few decent years in Montreal.
  • And Schilling, if it weren't for a 4-year stretch where he was virtually unstoppable and that bloody sock deal, he wouldn't even be considered.
  • The rest of them, fuck 'em. They're not worth talking about.

Now free Pete Rose and let's play some ball.

Gotta go with Dalai on this one. Nicely done my friend. But just looking at all those names brings back so many great and not so great baseball memories.

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Fredchuckdave

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I_Stay_Puft

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My Picks -

Frank Thomas - Spoke out against steroids from an early period of his career so I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt he was not juicing. Also one of the most feared hitters of the 90's and he did win 2 mvp awards/

Jeff Bagwell - This was a toughy but I gotta believe this guy wasn't juicing, I just gotta.

Craig Biggio -3000 hits holds plenty of record books as a 2nd baseman. Hard to fathom the guy use to be a catcher.

Tom Glavine - Was such a consistent pitcher he probably doesn't quite have the number for the hof but boy was he consistent.

Edgar Martinez - I grew up on the Mariners so I gotta go with my guy. Probably not gonna get in though.

Curt Schilling - Two world series and a bloody sock to go into baseball lore.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lol, Richie Sexson.

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wjb

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Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Frank Thomas, definitely.

It would be nice to see Craig Biggio, eventually. Some might wait a few years.

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Fredchuckdave

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#31  Edited By Fredchuckdave

@i_stay_puft: Edgar might eventually get in, probably not by voting since the ballot will be crazily overloaded in a few years (and already is really); but via veteran's committee and the eventual discarding of the anti-DH bias. Statistically he has a solid case.

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Dalai

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Let's bump this up since Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are officially in. Biggio just missed the cut by 0.2% of the vote and Jack Morris now has to plead to the Veteran's Committee.

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Marcsman

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#33  Edited By Marcsman

Pete Rose PERIOD

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wjb

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Sucks about Biggio. He'll get in next year, hopefully.

2 freakin' votes away.

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Deep-_-Thought

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@marcsman: Until Joe Jackson gets in I'm okay with someone who actually gambled never being allowed in.

Damn shame that Biggio missed out again, played three different positions and was an all-star at two of them and you could always count on consistent numbers from him every year. He and Sandberg were easily my two favorite second basemen growing up. And if only Smoltz had retired a year earlier instead of getting lit up in '09 the trio could have all went in together.

I couldn't get the video link to work but this forever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltD21rYWVw

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churrific

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@marcsman: Until Joe Jackson gets in I'm okay with someone who actually gambled never being allowed in.

Damn shame that Biggio missed out again, played three different positions and was an all-star at two of them and you could always count on consistent numbers from him every year. He and Sandberg were easily my two favorite second basemen growing up. And if only Smoltz had retired a year earlier instead of getting lit up in '09 the trio could have all went in together.

I couldn't get the video link to work but this forever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltD21rYWVw

Lol yeah Joe Jackson needs to be in before any mention of Pete Rose comes up. That's a really good point.

Who the hell gave Armando Benitez a vote?

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shinboy630

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I am still baffled and upset that biggio and piazza didn't get in. Hopefully they will get their due next year

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Fredchuckdave

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Yay Frank. It's like the White Sox beating the Astros in the World Series all over again. HoF voters are still really stupid.