Hey dudes, this is how I feel about beauty and/or myself:
1. I'm an ugly dude, but I have personality and other things to make me interesting so I will fair well in the world This realization to me is similar to a kid realizing he can't be good at spots early on, so he goes on to get into computers or art. 2. It's okay for me to want a girl who is not as ugly as me, it's natural for humans to want that, as long as I am not resentful when I don't get what I want or sacrifice too much for it. (btw I'm a really ugly dude so it'd be rare to find a girl uglier than me) 3. Beauty may be subjective, but by and large many people think certain people are ugly and certain people are pretty, and I tend to agree with them. Not because of "society", but because of my general taste.
I was having a conversation with someone about this, and he seems to attack me because I called myself ugly, saying that I should completely throw away any standards that society has given me about this ( even though this is based on how I personally feel ). He was also going on about how beauty is subjective, and calling me immature, saying that I shouldn't care about looks, saying that "countless people" find a 600lb woman sexy and therefore everyone is beautiful in their own way. He also went on about how he feels that "ugly" should be used to define someone's personality and not just looks, to which I responded that there are many words to describe a bad personality already (asshole, dickhead, jerk, shit person).
He then got into stuff like " why do you think someone looks better than you", saying that "oversimplification of things is bullshit", which I interpreted as rhetoric because not even he himself could comprehend these kind of things. I think with that he was also implying that I only feel that way because I have bad self image, which I might, but I'm still an ugly dude. So it sounds like complete mind-fucking stuff. Keep in mind, I have not taken to to repeat his best points, but this is what I got out of his argument.
I've been scratching my head about this, because this is really something I believe in and I think I'm right about, and I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I believe that that person is almost completely bullshitting me by being impractical, whether sincere or not.. What do you guys think? This went back and forth via the internet for days. Did I just waste my time?
@thegreatmuta92: Everyone has the potential to be beautiful. All life is beautiful and that is NOT a subjective opinion. Somethings in life are just beautiful more often than others. Seriously.
@ArchScabby Nope, not going to start that. Assume that I'm a very ugly dude, possibly the ugliest you might have seen, if only just for this thread. This is not some Hot Topic self hatred bullshit, nor is the point of this thread for people to reassure me that I'm not ugly.
I know you were kidding, but people might actually be serious with that.
@Axxol:EDIT: Are you referring to what the dude thinks about me? I'm saying that I think I'm ugly. It's like, just because someone says they suck at guitar doesn't mean that someone told them they were, they may just think they suck.
To me that sounds like " the glass is half full " BS to me. Everything is not beautiful. If everything was beautiful then we wouldn't even have come up for a special word to identify outstanding beauty, beauty wouldn't be special. You seem to be just applying the word to a broad spectrum, but in doing that you diminish the word's original meaning. Saying that everyone is beautiful doesn't take away the fact that I see the less beautiful differently than I see the more beautiful. Basically, just use ugly and beautiful.
Beauty is subjective the same way video games are subjective. Different people have different taste (e.g. I like Harvest Moon: BTN more than Starcraft), but when you average peoples opinions together you find really strong trends.
i just have to tell you that you might think that you are ugly now, but just wait until you get older. find something that you think might make you look good. i started getting my hair shorter and friends and other people said i looked good. another example is there was a obese girl in high school. four years later i was browsing facebook to see her. she looked better still being obese.
Yeah, I don't know about countless people finding a 600 lb woman sexy. Not trying to be a dick, but.... *shivers* "
For the record, the extraordinarily thin woman as a standard of beauty is a recent cultural phenomena. I'm not trying to change what you want, only to let you (and everyone else who bothers to actually read this thread this far) know that big women are regarded as hot stuff -- just not here in the US and in places where we export our culture. For some people, famine and hunger are real, and fatness is a sign of a person who both does not know hunger and doesn't have to work.
My response to the original post is that most standards of beauty are subjective. Barring grotesque physical deformation, severe burn scars, or persistent open wounds and sores, I think somebody might find you attractive. If it's any consolation, once a person is interested in you, they will convince themselves that you are what they like, so that their subjective tastes will change to make you more desireable.
My personal stance on appearances is that none of them last, they are quickly and easily changed with little effort (but sometimes requiring much money), and ultimately do not matter because they have little to no functional value. Unfortunately, I am male and it sounds like we're not compatible because you are too. Good luck and happy hunting; you'll find somebody eventually.
Yeah, I don't know about countless people finding a 600 lb woman sexy. Not trying to be a dick, but.... *shivers* "
For the record, the extraordinarily thin woman as a standard of beauty is a recent cultural phenomena. I'm not trying to change what you want, only to let you (and everyone else who bothers to actually read this thread this far) know that big women are regarded as hot stuff -- just not here in the US and in places where we export our culture. For some people, famine and hunger are real, and fatness is a sign of a person who both does not know hunger and doesn't have to work.
My response to the original post is that most standards of beauty are subjective. Barring grotesque physical deformation, severe burn scars, or persistent open wounds and sores, I think somebody might find you attractive. If it's any consolation, once a person is interested in you, they will convince themselves that you are what they like, so that their subjective tastes will change to make you more desireable.
My personal stance on appearances is that none of them last, they are quickly and easily changed with little effort (but sometimes requiring much money), and ultimately do not matter because they have little to no functional value. Unfortunately, I am male and it sounds like we're not compatible because you are too. Good luck and happy hunting; you'll find somebody eventually.
"
It's got a lot more to do with fertility. Fat women are well fed women and well fed women are usually fertile women. In societies where food is scarce this is big. Once you remove this problem though and you live in a society where nutrition is abundant, people naturally gravitate towards more fit women since healthier women are more fit for giving birth and raising children. Not only that but they're also hotter. WAY hotter.
@thegreatmuta92: Well, if you actually seriously do think your ugly, as wierd as it sounds, get a makeover, that`s what all of the ugly/nerdy girls in my school did, now their the sluttiest, AND hottest chicks in school. Hurray for accomplishment.
@InfamousBIG: You do know there is a section of the porn industry strictly devoted to really really fat chicks, right? If that is not a clear indicator that there are a lot of chubby-chasers out there then I don't know what is.
Yeah, I don't know about countless people finding a 600 lb woman sexy. Not trying to be a dick, but.... *shivers* "
For the record, the extraordinarily thin woman as a standard of beauty is a recent cultural phenomena. I'm not trying to change what you want, only to let you (and everyone else who bothers to actually read this thread this far) know that big women are regarded as hot stuff -- just not here in the US and in places where we export our culture. For some people, famine and hunger are real, and fatness is a sign of a person who both does not know hunger and doesn't have to work.
My response to the original post is that most standards of beauty are subjective. Barring grotesque physical deformation, severe burn scars, or persistent open wounds and sores, I think somebody might find you attractive. If it's any consolation, once a person is interested in you, they will convince themselves that you are what they like, so that their subjective tastes will change to make you more desireable.
My personal stance on appearances is that none of them last, they are quickly and easily changed with little effort (but sometimes requiring much money), and ultimately do not matter because they have little to no functional value. Unfortunately, I am male and it sounds like we're not compatible because you are too. Good luck and happy hunting; you'll find somebody eventually.
"
Right off the bat, the extraordinarily fat woman is a fairly recent cultural phenomenon brought on by an excess in food. I'll say women were probably a bit chunky before, but most of them couldn't get to the level of fat that I was referring to. If they could, those guys would find them disgusting as well. I honestly think that is a myth. You didn't give a psychological or sociological explanation on why people in the US think certain girls are hot, why is it done on girls in mysterious countries? I find skinny girls and big girls here hot because they make me hard. This isn't true for people in other countries?
Somebody will find me attractive, but not based on looks. I'm not hung up on being a hot guy. This wasn't a sympathy bating thread. As far as looks not lasting, would you rather start out with an ugly person and have their looks deteriorate? It's not like a hot girl will suddenly be as ugly as a fat ugly chick, in due time. And if people really believed that then no one would judge based on looks. Maybe people want a good looking person now? I'm kinda being an argumentative shithead here but I think my points are valid.
Everyone has their own opinion on what is "attractive", and i also think everyone in attractive in their very own way. Sure everyone will have a trending "theme" in what they find attractive, mines probably height. But that's just the rules of dating. Also, who gives a fuck what anyone else thinks? Having confidence in yourself is a lot more attractive then being self conscious, sure everyone is self conscious in someway, i know i am. But i still don't give a fuck what people think. For example, right now, across the room (i'm at uni right now) is a girl who is a lot skinnier then me, and prettier and she keeps on glancing at me with a disgusted look on her face, probably because i have bed hair, bags under my eyes and i'm sitting here in a kick-ass t shirt which is far too big for me. From what i've over heard she's a rich little bitch too. Daddy owns a massive farm, her grandparents are paying for her accommodation for this year. Do i give a shit what she thinks of me? Hell no. Why the fuck should i?
Well, I tend to think of myself as an ugly dude, and there's no denying that there are girls that are pretty to me and girls that I find ugly. I was the unpopular guy in school that nobody would touch with a ten foot pole. My self-esteem was non-existent. Funnily enough, ever since I got some self-confidence worked up, as many as three girls have told me I am good looking (even though in my personal opinion I still look crap). Better yet, all three of them are girls I would regard as beautiful. Thus, I'd say self-confidence is a more important factor (warning: having self-confidence does not equal being egotistical).
Just because you are ugly doesn't mean the ladies wont bang ya'. Just gotta get famous or rich or talented, or all three.
Also, while beauty may differ between people, it still has many commonalities within our society. So while your friend might enjoy white-knighting and defending everybody, there are some people who are ugly, some who are pretty, and many who are somewhere in between.
At the end of the day you need to take stock of what you have to work with, aim as high as you can, then go a bit further and shoot. Theres lots of ugly dudes that have super attractive girls, the trick is to actually try. The vast majority of people aren't willing to do that.
" @thegreatmuta92: Well, if you actually seriously do think your ugly, as wierd as it sounds, get a makeover, that`s what all of the ugly/nerdy girls in my school did, now their the sluttiest, AND hottest chicks in school. Hurray for accomplishment. "
Ugly and fat people always look for more and more intelligent ways to defend themselves about being ugly and fat. Nut-up dude. If you are ugly and or fat then deal with it. You don't have any kind of rights to complain about attractive people getting ahead in life because it has been happening since the dawn of humanity and will continue to do so.
Since we're tossing around adages, I'll counter with "Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly is to the bone". On a more cynical note, just remember money makes everyone beautiful.
You mean this guy? Since we're tossing around adages, I'll counter with "Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly is to the bone". On a more cynical note, just remember money makes everyone beautiful. "
As someone gets older, their personal definition of what beauty is changes...I know mine has. What I found most attractive at 20 is not really what I look at first now at 30.
" @InfamousBIG: You do know there is a section of the porn industry strictly devoted to really really fat chicks, right? If that is not a clear indicator that there are a lot of chubby-chasers out there then I don't know what is. "
I cannot hear that expression without thinking of D&D beholders.
Also to the OP everyone is their harshest critic, you are not as ugly as you think and even if you are if you think that way it will show. Confidence is the key.
You're right, your friend is wrong. Ugly people are ugly, fat people are fat.
You just have to roll with the punches and deal with it in your own way. Some just stop caring about what others think, while others compensate, and still others will try to change the way they look.
One way or another, everyone will have to adapt. But pretending that they aren't ugly or fat is just a departure from reality.
Beauty = Symmetry + Proportions, human beings and animals are naturaly attracted to them, uglliness is the lack of those so if you are ugly you are ugly, there is no excuse.
Here's the thing. You, apparently, are much more of a realist than an idealist. And the reality of it is that yes, some people are by and large considered ugly by people in general, just as some people are regarded as beautiful by people in general. We may wish it were different. We may say that everyone is beautiful and that our vision of beauty is skewed, but the truth of the matter is, there are some people who are ugly. Fact.
Of course, this is all based on physical appearance. We don't know every single person in the world, so we can't say if that physically ugly person across the country is a truly beautiful person inside, just as the really attractive people can have some of the ugliest personalities sometimes. So the "inner beauty" thing gets left at the door.
Now taking all of this reality into consideration, it is also completely realistic to expect that anyone, no matter their physical appearance, would find a physically attractive person attractive. Yeah, both the ugly guys and the pretty guys both think the same hot babes are hot. Imagine that. So why wouldn't it follow that the ugly guys wouldn't want to find themselves with the pretty girls just as much as the pretty guys want to find themselves with the pretty girls?
" 1. I'm an ugly dude, but I have personality and other things to make me interesting so I will fair well in the world This realization to me is similar to a kid realizing he can't be good at spots early on, so he goes on to get into computers or art. "
That line's a bit too telling. Not just of you (although it's still telling about you), but a lot of people here, in general.
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