The schools in particular dont do enough to give healthy food to kids growing up. Companies have normalized using preservatives and dyes that are deadly and would not be edible and even deadly by themselves red dye 5 has been allowed to be used for over a decade in America and its literally poison. People here have learned not to think about what they are eating and just take the facade for what it is. I believe that everyone should perfectly have the right to get fat, eat and drink what they want, but as long as the education and awareness takes place. You can eat a big mac, as long as they tell you exactly whats in it, problem is its a struggle now getting people to read in America too, so even if you did provide them with the information and power of knowledge would they use it to better themselves, mcdonalds is proof of that. God I hate stupid people, about 93% of the population so its almost safe to say I hate people (but I love gatherings, isnt that strange? :P) .
" @CptBedlam said: They're already forced to be honest! All the crap that's in the food is right on the label for all to see. It's extremely easy to do the smallest bit of research on that stuff to find out what's bad for you and what's not. "
No it's not clear on the label. You don't seem to have the slightest idea of the trickery that is going on behind product descriptions etc.
@jinxman said:
No, it's not. It's violating freedom and the free market. What they should be doing is allowing for more competition. The market can generally take care of it's own problems if the government stays out of the way. "
Yes, Wall Street has shown how it can take care of it's own problems. "
There have been other arguments on this same thread related to this. People know that the food they're eating is crappy. They still eat it. It's not the government's job to treat us all like babies.
And as for wall street. In a free market society, small recessions are normal from time to time, and when the government steps in they just make things worse. In fact, in the past, Presidents Warren G Harding and Calvin Coolidge managed to pull us out of a depression in the early 20's, a decade before the great depression, by cutting taxes and federal expenditures, and brought the unemployment rate down from 20 percent to 3.3 percent. Government intervention does NOT help the economy.
@Bones8677: Yes it is the parents job to make sure their kids are eatting right. @Lowbrow: Agreed 100% @CptBedlam: Then I would have to agree with others and ask where exactly the line is? I admit I don't know everything there is to know about food inhancers or chemicals, but I do know they are bad for me. If this does indeed make food adtictive, then people can quit just as they do drugs or smoking. They need to make an effort to eat right and try even if doesn't taste the best or isn't as cheap. It is true as that guy said though, if enough people had the right mindset and bought healthier food it would go down in price. Look at the Green movement in cars for example. Companies now try to make the best cars for the environment (okay not "best", but somewhat better) because that is what the people want. Hummers are no longer being made and more and more hybrids are being sold. If the people started thinking the same way about food,eventually better food will become the norm too.
@jinxman: Better regulations help to prevent such financial chrashes.
What I'm agreeing with is that bailouts probably weren't necessary. They may have secured a few jobs short term but it was the wrong signal to the receiving corporations and banks.
"@CptBedlam: If this does indeed make food adtictive, then people can quit just as they do drugs or smoking."
People first need to become aware of this but companies try to hide all this from the eye of the public. For example, food companies have already come up with terms to fool the customers who started to become aware of substances like Glutamate. They then write "natural flavor enhancer" (Glutamate is produced from algaes). Or "yeast extract" is another codeword for Glutamate because it contains this substance. There is a lot going on to fool the customers.
(and just fyi: some foods like tomatoes or cheese contain Glutamate naturally; however in much weaker concentrations)
@Linkyshinks: I agree. Alot of Americans are far too arrogant and ignorant when it comes to their rights.
A majority of the responses on this thread seem to summed up as "The government has no right to tell me what I can and can't... blah blah, whatever"
No one is suggesting that the government step in by telling people what they can and can't eat. Or by arresting people for having a fat-ass on a friday night.
All they would need to do is invest some resources into raising awareness, particulary to children. The parents are obviously the sole problem and are to blame for fat kids. Their also obviously dumb and clearly need the awareness just as much.
Theres a national campaign in the UK of '5 a day' Encouraging everyone to eat 5 portions of fruit or vege a day
This has lead to a partnership with the food companys. On boxes of Weetabix, Fruit stands, Tins of soup and various other health items all branded with 'One of your 5 a day' motif. Children in schools come home with 30 day wall charts and stickers. I have a younger sister who will now eat a piece of fruit as a snack, just so she can get a sticker on the wall.
This is just one example of how a government can help. Its not the be all and end all, but its also not rocket science.
Do you think American government does enough to prevent the accumulation of semen in your ball sacks? Serious issue btw, if you do not regularly have sex or at least masturbate then the constantly dying sperm can stagnate and have adverse effects on your procreatory abilities. Similarly to obesity.
I work at a school and do you want me to tell you what the school I am at does to meet new federal guidelines. Instead of searching out foods that are better for you and more filling they now serve the exact same food just less of it. They still have spaghetti but now it doesn't cover the bottom of the tray. They still have the same chicken nuggets but now instead of 6 they give 4 and I could list dozens of other examples. I am aware some schools have done better but giving kids less of the same unhealthy food is not a solution.
" @odintal: @CptBedlam: It is not a slipery slope thing, and I don't think the Government is evil. I just think that people need to do things themselves and not rely on others/the Government to do things for them. Fat people are using it as an excuse saying the reason they are fat is because someone didn't help them, not because it is their own fault. The Government is just a cruch people are leaning on. Nothing is anyones own fault any more, there is always someone to blame for their problems. If you don't want to be fat, DON'T BE FAT! Work out and don't eat things that take 2 mins to make or comes from a place with a drive threw. As for putting warnings on food, we alreay have nutrition facts (I know people should learn to read them), we also tried with smoking but people are still dumb and do it anyway. I like how you Europeans have the mentality not to be fucking stupid and be fat as fuck, and I wish people learned to think that way as well, but it is up to the people of this country to do so not the Government. "
I wasn't aware that Michigan was part of Europe. You're missing my point anyway. I don't want the government banning fatty foods and unhealthy foods. You are absolutely right that it is everyone's personal responsibility. What I'm advocating is that the government does things to promote healthy choices and living. A large part of that could start in schools. Healthier meals for school children, even if it is the only healthy thing they eat all day can go a long way. Promoting or even requireing school age children to participate in physical fitness classes until graduation age wouldn't hurt either. Warning labels for food don't do anything really but I believe government programs to reduce the cost of healthy food and promote physical activity (more things like the Presidential Fitness Challenge) could do wonders for our nation as a whole.
It's not about restricting what you are allowed to eat, it's about encouraging people to eat the right things.
" @ryanwho said: Okay, I rephrase just for you: In general it doesn't seem people in Europe feel threatened by their governments. There are always exceptions to anything but in general that's a core difference between Europe and America. "
You make it sound as if that's a bad thing. It's a good thing to not completely trust your government. The government works for the people, not the other way around. The government needs to be kept in it's place so it doesn't get too strong. That's one of the reasons why we have the right to bear arms in America. "
Establishing regulations to protect people from corporation's greed IS working for the people. "
No, it's not. It's violating freedom and the free market. What they should be doing is allowing for more competition. The market can generally take care of it's own problems if the government stays out of the way. "
Exactly. If and when it becomes marketably viable to post your competition's nutrition facts in order to make your new leaner meal more appealling, people will do it. If you're wondering why they don't do it, or why they've done that and stopped, that's because it didn't work. I don't know why people in smaller countries have such a hard time understanding that if you live out in the middle of nowhere and between your house in bumfuck nowhere and your job 30 miles away there is a single fast food chain, so that's where someone is eating. And short of creating dietary mandates for all food chains, which would be unconstitutional for reasons that should be obvious (but I guess arent), people aren't going to change their habits. When healthier food stops actually costing MORE than the shitty food, when the idiots who make health food figure out that kink in the free market, healthier food will sell better. When there's a healty food chain on the corner where the only McDonalds in town is and they have a comparable value menu, healthier food will sell better. The solution isn't forcing that McDonalds to have healthy food via the government, its giving them a reason to sell it and you do that with real competition. You don't do that by charging significantly more for healthy products over unhealthy ones.
" The U.S. government has absolutely no right to "prevent" obesity in any way, shape, or form. That's an infringement on the freedoms of our people that cannot be allowed to happen. If people want to be fat, disgusting sacks of failure, they should be allowed to. The feds cannot be given the authority to stop people from eating what they want, when they want, how they want. The government DOES NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS to our problems. "
This is the prevalent thinking throughout our country, morons are everywhere here.
To rebut, yes the government does have the answers. From reimplementing gym/physical fitness programs in schools, banning fast food from being served in schools, banning soda, chips, stopping all unhealthy vending machine shit being served, to getting the menu out of the hands of the conagra conglomerate and having healthy menus would greatly combat this problem.
I remember a photo essay where school lunches were uploaded from around the world. This food from Japan and every other country was freshly prepared and looked healthy. The food from the U.S. was all processed and looked like shit. There was one healthy meal in the photo collection with maybe one unhealthy selection in France(fries) compared to all the processed garbage in the U.S. U.S Here: Japan "
This, now the food they give us here (Montreal, Qc) looks pretty great compared to that bullshit
I think its great that people are asking for government intrusion for food moderation and dietary mandates and citing PUBLIC SCHOOLS as a reason they need to. Fucking brilliant, guys. Keep your guvment hands off my Medicare, right? Get your act together public schools. Even though you're already underfunded and understaffed, and that's the government's fault, you should also magically make it so your broken budget can afford healthier food. But also at the same time, don't raise taxes. All of this and more is possible with the power of alchemy.
" I think its great that people are asking for government intrusion for food moderation and dietary mandates and citing PUBLIC SCHOOLS as a reason they need to. Fucking brilliant, guys. Keep your guvment hands off my Medicare, right? Get your act together public schools. Even though you're already underfunded and understaffed, and that's the government's fault, you should also magically make it so your broken budget can afford healthier food. But also at the same time, don't raise taxes. All of this and more is possible with the power of alchemy. "
I don't really give a squirrel fart if taxes are raised to give more funding to public schools .
In fact I would probably vote for such an initiative. Especially if it goes towards increasing education quality, student/teacher ratios, healthier foods and supporting the arts. Where exactly did you get the idea I was against that?
I wonder how many overweight or out of shape people have commented abut the need to be healthier in this thread? I have tips for those people. Get out of your chair. Go outside. Start running. Don't stop until you're really sweaty and out of breath. JUST DO IT.
" I wonder how many overweight or out of shape people have commented abut the need to be healthier in this thread? I have tips for those people. Get out of your chair. Go outside. Start running. Don't stop until you're really sweaty and out of breath. JUST DO IT. "
No need to interfere in the lives of adults, but when it comes to children they need to protect them from their dumb ass parents who feed them nothing but the junk they sell at Pop Eye's and Taco Bell. Stuff like school cafeterias selling fast food is literally unheard of on this side of the Atlantic.
" The U.S. government has absolutely no right to "prevent" obesity in any way, shape, or form. That's an infringement on the freedoms of our people that cannot be allowed to happen. If people want to be fat, disgusting sacks of failure, they should be allowed to. The feds cannot be given the authority to stop people from eating what they want, when they want, how they want. The government DOES NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS to our problems. "
not even change school lunch programs to make them more nutritious? subsidies for healthy foods? slightly stricter requirements for fda approval? don't you think at the very least it would be a good idea to stop subsidizing corn farmers with government money, which makes unhealthy foods full of corn syrup cheaper to produce (and cheaper to buy) than healthy food?
i think you have this idea in your mind that the government is going to come and put you in fat jail when you hit 250 pounds. there's lots of sensible things that could be done to encourage people to live healthy.
It's not their problem if people decide to weight 500 pounds and need to have their arteries replaced (I know a guy that just had his replaced, successfully, much to the dismay of my friend). All you need is a little will power.
@ryanwho: Wow, you don't seem to understand a word of what I've written here. NO ONE was talking about banning fatty foods.
Also, you don't have the slightest clue why junkfood is as cheap as it is: And more laughable: you seem to think that people must've starved when no fast food chains were around.
Seriously, you are narrow minded and naive beyond belief. The free market without sufficient regulations just crashed your financial system and dragged half the world down with it. All because no one was checking what some people were doing with their virtual money.
" Itt Americans can't read, but sure can post. Lol. No wonder... I hope you lot aren't eligible to vote yet, as you seem. "
This
American's don't even understand the arguments postet in this thread. All they do is cry about how the government don't have the right to ban fatty foods while in reality no one was even talking about this.
Also, they seem to think this is just about willpower to resist junkfood. No, it's not. It's about a real addiction to certain substances and they don't know about it (and refuse to learn about it).
" The Federal Government has done such a fantastic job with everything else they've taken over such as Social Security, the IRS, and Medicare ...I say just let them make all of our decisions for us, after all, no citizen could possibly know what's best for them. "
@Linkyshinks: America (quoted comment is a good example of this) has this twisted notion that if you attempt to influence society in any way you are infringing upon their "freedom". The fact is: people are uneducated, and in a country with such a massive class divide, there needs to be awareness (especially amongst the poor, though it is sad to say) that cheaper, fast foods etc. are not proper sustenance. Obviously, being Scottish, I see what you mean by the government taking preventative measures since there have been reforms in school cafeterias, advertisements highlighting the dangers of obesity, nutritional information on food packaging etc, but the yanks seem to presuppose that the government becoming involved in their health means they lose their "right to munch."
" Itt Americans can't read, but sure can post. Lol. No wonder... I hope you lot aren't eligible to vote yet, as you seem. "
This American's don't even understand the arguments postet in this thread. All they do is cry about how the government don't have the right to ban fatty foods while in reality no one was even talking about this. Also, they seem to think this is just about willpower to resist junkfood. No, it's not. It's about a real addiction to certain substances and they don't know about it (and refuse to learn about it). "
Nobody's layed out even the vaguest framework for how the government would help, just insisted that it should. Meanwhile all you've done is thrown around racial epithets and blanket statements because for some reason Americans aren't reacting positively to fucking idiots like you, completely divorced from America, acting like you've got it all figured out when you're so laughably offbase and the only way you can rationalize that is by throwing people who don't agree with you under a dismissive label. You're a fucking child, step out of the debate seriously. You make everyone with a legitimate point who happens to be on the same side of the fence as you look less credible every time you spew racist nonesense.
I'm one American citizen with you guys across the pond. It's quite amazing how some people turn ideas that are beneficial to everyone into an attack on our free will and personal liberty.
I don't know if the politics in this country have just degraded that far or if there are just a lot of people still pissed off that "the new sheriff is near".
" I'm one American citizen with you guys across the pond. It's quite amazing how some people turn ideas that are beneficial to everyone into an attack on our free will and personal liberty. I don't know if the politics in this country have just degraded that far or if there are just a lot of people still pissed off that "the new sheriff is near". "
Maybe offer an actual solution instead of treating the government like a cureall. What's the framework? Why is it more important that kids eat healthy food at school than to get new books? Because there's this thing called a deficit, see, and when you hit the ceiling you can't spend anymore money. So please tell me why school food is more important than paying teachers more money and incentives, getting new school supplies, adding on to the building, etc. I'd love to see a solution instead of people just reacting to the realists. Yeah I think it would be great if we could have all of those things, but saying we should have all of those things isn't an idea, its a fucking wish. Like a wish Gemma Ward would wash my balls every night. All 10 pages seem to be "well there's a good solution for this and the government is involved probably, but I won't begin to approach articulating the framework for the solution cus these jerk trolls are trolling the thread stupid Americans don't know anything scoff scoff". Stop bitching and lay out the framework. Get of the cross. If there's an actual idea here and not just some "wouldnt it be nice if" daydreaming, articulate it.
@ryanwho: Wow, you still can't read. Several concepts were discussed of how the government can help without banning anything. Either you don't understand them or you don't want to because you are paranoid with anything about the government.
And now I'm a racist. I lol'd.
You already called me an idiot btw, no need to be redundant. You've shown your intellectual capacity already.
When you attribute the attitude and percieved faults of an individual to a collective whole, in this case a nation of people, that's racist. "America" isn't saying anything in this thread, specific people are. Get educated, racist.
" The Federal Government has done such a fantastic job with everything else they've taken over such as Social Security, the IRS, and Medicare ...I say just let them make all of our decisions for us, after all, no citizen could possibly know what's best for them. "
It's like bizarro world. "Do you think the government does enough to prevent obesity?" average citizen: no, probably not steps could be taken to better educate people. deranged people: BAH, GAWD STUPID EUROPE! NO IDEAS! THE GOVERNMENT WILL RAPE US ALL!
" The Federal Government has done such a fantastic job with everything else they've taken over such as Social Security, the IRS, and Medicare ...I say just let them make all of our decisions for us, after all, no citizen could possibly know what's best for them. "
@Linkyshinks: America (quoted comment is a good example of this) has this twisted notion that if you attempt to influence society in any way you are infringing upon their "freedom". The fact is: people are uneducated, and in a country with such a massive class divide, there needs to be awareness (especially amongst the poor, though it is sad to say) that cheaper, fast foods etc. are not proper sustenance. Obviously, being Scottish, I see what you mean by the government taking preventative measures since there have been reforms in school cafeterias, advertisements highlighting the dangers of obesity, nutritional information on food packaging etc, but the yanks seem to presuppose that the government becoming involved in their health means they lose their "right to munch." Madness. "
I pondered whether the first reply in this thread prompted other US members to reply in a similar vitriolic manner, but it seems given the large number of American members replying with similar sentiments, that's clearly not the case. As a European, who knows the importance and benefit of government intervention to improve not only obesity but all forms of disease, I look at such sentiments regarding this and chuckle inside. Speaking frankly, I read all of this and I'm thinking to myself, god these Americans have some really warped shit in their brains. I think It's fair to say most Europeans reading this thread will be feeling exactly what we are on this matter ;)
We haven't sacrificed any freedoms in Europe as a result of our governments intervention in these matters, the fact is, we've gained more freedoms with the good health we've attained.
Q Are you European?, if so, has your own government's policy regarding healthy eating taken away basic freedoms from you and your people?
I'm really glad I started this thread, it's shone some well needed light on this ridiculous perspective that many Americans seem to have. If this view is engrained on a large percentage of Americans population, all I have to say to Americans is - good luck while your fat honeymoon lasts. Like I said in the OP, this issue is a ticking time bomb of ill health, and explosion of ill health.
America's lust for fast food certainly does effects us here in Europe, sadly it effects all of us around the world via the media and the fast food chains around the world, the make the efforts of our heath bodies seem insignificant. Aside from that, there's also the major environmental issue of extreme deforestation in South America, which is being done solely to support livestock meant for the American market. The satellite images are shocking, more shocking that seeing a whale of a woman being hoisted up.
@Linkyshinks: I'm a European, no freedoms were taken away but they have taken my tax money and are applying them to an area I disagree with. I believe there are more important issues where efforts can be spent rather then this.
@Linkyshinks Yes Americans fear and question their government more often than our peers. Conspiracy theories and other wild allegations fly at the slightest hint government activity. Pretty frequently you'll find that Americans believe the government isn't acting in their best interests and has ulterior motives. I think in this case though, people are missing the point that obesity is the enemy. They see it as the government stepping in and telling them what to eat, not the government trying to save people's lives by getting them to stop eating fat, salt, and sugar.
Like most questions, the answer to it lies in a rigorous and well rounded education with an emphasis on critical analysis. Given the correct tools to make decisions, people should then be allowed to make those decisions as they see fit. Or that's how it works in an ideal world, anyway. Assuming education is good, I think clear and accurate nutritional information on food is the best bet. Time pressures often force people to resort to ready meals and take out because they don't have the time or energy to cook, so they should have a good idea of what they're getting with those. That said, the big reason that American's and others are fat, from a human social development point of view, is that they are wealthy. Fat isn't something new, and as a proportion of our food it makes up less than it did even 50 years ago. My mother and father had dripping on bread for dinner for heavens sake. We can just afford, thanks to technological advancement, to eat more of everything now, but remain genetically linked to our hand to mouth hunter gatherer existence where starvation was an issue our bodies had to prepare for whenever possible. Our metabolism's on the whole were not built for the kind of highly developed information economy we have, and it's going to take time to adjust out of that.
@TomWhitbrook: That's just half of the truth and there are countries in which the average person is just as wealthy or even more wealthy but they still are not nearly as fat in general.
You've got to take food igredients into consideration that cause addiction and cause people to eat bigger portions. Look up what effects "Glutamate" in food has.
Obesity is indeed a massive health issue in the USA, the government however is not responsible for regulating health issues that are not outside of human control. In other words they can't control our eating habits. The main culprit of this epidemic is really some of the habits that we as Americans grow with and the culture that we are exposed to since childhood. The fast food, the lack of exercise, the laziness and most of all the lack of health education are all rather serious issued that have embedded themselves into our culture. Parents with very demanding jobs and very little time for their children rely on fast foods and chain restaurants to provide nourishment for them and their children. The same goes for college students who are constantly bombarded with work and studies. Health is sacrificed for "lack of time" and is constantly looked at as a small sacrifice in order to better provide for family and oneself (hard work is more important than being healthy). Even worse our school system does not teach even the basics on how to eat right and correctly fuel your body which leaves our children (and future adults) believing that eating at McDonald's and Chili's is totally fine and thus creating the next generation of obese adults. That's not to say that health conscious individuals do not exist, in fact there are many organizations (formed mostly by younger generations) who are striving to educate the general public on healthy eating habits and how to correctly maintain your body as well as helping those who are already in dire straights with their weight to achieve a healthier weight level and improve their quality of life. To answer your question though, the BEST the government could do right now to reduce this obesity issue would be to reassess our public educational system and introduce an effective way of educating our children (and even adults i.e. college students, professionals ) on how our bodies work and what we need to consume in order to maintain proper health. It's unfortunate however, that without some radical reform to the American way of thinking, it's going to be a while before anything related to this issue truly gets better.
" @Linkyshinks Yes Americans fear and question their government more often than our peers. Conspiracy theories and other wild allegations fly at the slightest hint government activity. Pretty frequently you'll find that Americans believe the government isn't acting in their best interests and has ulterior motives. I think in this case though, people are missing the point that obesity is the enemy. They see it as the government stepping in and telling them what to eat, not the government trying to save people's lives by getting them to stop eating fat, salt, and sugar. "
If a person died because of obesity and was not smart enough to stop gorging before making his health critical all I see is Darwinism in action.
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