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Avatar image for devvyboyyy
#1 Edited by DevvyBoyyy (195 posts) -

So today, we found out that Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, did some less than reputable things. It was discovered that he funds a nonprofit that creates memes bashing Hillary Clinton (editing to say bashing Hillary isn't a bad thing, but the alt-right is a bad thing and that's who he is funding). They've also been known to be pretty anti-semitic and white supremacist, which isn't surprising at all.

I've had a feeling that Palmer wasn't all that great for a while, after I saw he followed Martin Shkreli, and Milo, while he was still on twitter. But it was still shocking, and upsetting, to see the extent that he sucked.

Here's a tweet with a screencap of a particularly disgusting thing he posted on reddit.

https://twitter.com/CodyBrown/status/779135745135116288

So, I don't like Palmer Luckey, he did some stuff that I disagree with. Buy a Vive, it's a better headset anyway.

I'm editing to add that Palmer is 100% free to do what he wants with his money, and is 100% to say what he wants. But those freedoms also allows us to say that he is being a scumbag. Part of what makes free speech great, is that people are allowed to be scumbags, we can recognize it, and say "Yo, fuck off".

(I edited one last time to remove the phrase "complete shitbag" because a lot of people were getting upset by it)

Avatar image for milkman
#2 Edited by Milkman (19248 posts) -

While I don't think bashing Hillary Clinton alone makes someone a "complete shitbag", associating with Milo Whatshisface definitely makes you something pretty close and that Reddit post is pretty aggressively stupid. I saw this earlier today and was just baffled by it. Palmer always seemed like a decent enough guy when he was on Giant Bomb's streams but I guess when you're a young kid who suddenly is given a billion dollars, you're probably gonna do some stupid shit. Most kids would probably just blow a bunch of money on expensive cars or something but I guess when you're this much of a dork you blow your money on "meme magic." Pretty cringe worthy all around.

Avatar image for ollyoxenfree
#3 Posted by OllyOxenFree (5015 posts) -

Holy shit what a douchebag

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#4 Posted by A_Cute_Squirtle (890 posts) -

Yeah, please don't support this asshole.

Avatar image for devvyboyyy
#5 Posted by DevvyBoyyy (195 posts) -

@milkman: I would agree that bashing Hillary doesn't make you a shitbag, I'm not her biggest defender either. But willingly going to bat for Trump makes you the shittiest of shitbags.

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#6 Edited by conmulligan (1890 posts) -

Ugh. I probably wasn't going to buy a Rift either way, but this extra makes me not want to support them.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for roland_leshaft
#7 Posted by Roland_Leshaft (52 posts) -

its shitty but i dont even want to start thinking about how many thingsthat i cherish were made by shitbags.

Avatar image for noelle808
#8 Edited by Noelle808 (203 posts) -

As a fan of 7 years, I'd probably leave GB if he was to show up on another live show.

Avatar image for tepidshark
#9 Edited by TepidShark (1463 posts) -

Everybody here in the US is free to support whatever candidate they want, but supporting hate speech is a whole different issue for me. If he hasn't stepped down from Oculus/Facebook already, he should probably should do that ASAP. It doesn't make me think well of Oculus if he continues to be associated with it.

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#10 Posted by Teeknuts (233 posts) -

@noelle808: Yep, I never want him showing up on anything GB related again.

Online
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#11 Posted by Nengjanggo (40 posts) -

As a fan of 7 years, I'd probably leave GB if he was to show up on another live show.

Me too.

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#12 Posted by jay_ray (1569 posts) -

This could potentially force Facebook's hand to part ways.

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#13 Posted by DrDarkStryfe (2459 posts) -

Silicon Valley is not your friend folks. Remember that.

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#14 Posted by Jazz_Lafayette (3897 posts) -

Mm-mm. Neoliberalism.

I should really be more judicious with my respect and enthusiasm.

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#15 Posted by yakov456 (2021 posts) -

Seeing as it says he sold Oculus to Facebook in 2014 I'm not exactly sure how throwing it out would accomplish anything.

Avatar image for deathpooky
#16 Posted by Deathpooky (1840 posts) -

After the shitstorm when Oculus went from crowdfunding indie darling to bought by Facebook for billions, I imagine everyone is going to take him selling himself as a "self-made billionaire" in order to sell an alt-right, white supremacist "meme" group partnering with the worst parts of the Internet. Feel bad for anyone who works for/with them or gave them money at this point. Turns out years of VR craziness handed half a billion dollars to a total shitbag.

I'm usually in favor of letting people have reasonable political views and against outrage culture trying to take people down for any disagreement. But funding racist hate speech and working with the biggest scum on the Internet is a different story. More than enough to make me not want to ever see him or anything to do with Oculus anytime soon.

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#17 Edited by monetarydread (2887 posts) -

As someone who isn't American, can someone explain how being anti-Hilary automatically makes you a racist? From the info that makes it over here, she seems like she is quite the scum-bag herself. Even if she isn't as terrible as Trump, she certainly seems like the worst kind of politician and someone that probably doesn't deserve to be in office.

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#18 Posted by Fram (1840 posts) -

Usually I'm able to disassociate people from their work (I think Mel Gibson is a great actor and filmmaker and enjoy his movies, same for Tom Cruise) but something about this is extra skeevy. It might just be an immaturity thing, I dunno.

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#19 Posted by cmblasko (2894 posts) -

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/22/palmer-luckey-the-facebook-billionaire-secretly-funding-trump-s-meme-machine.html

According to that article he isn't with Facebook anymore?

It is surprising to me, total 180 on my opinion of him. Agree that I do not need to see him on any more live streams.

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#20 Posted by csl316 (14925 posts) -

It's dumb, but is it really that awful?

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#21 Posted by OurSin_360 (6105 posts) -

As someone who isn't American, can someone explain how supporting being anti-Hilary automatically makes you a racist? From the info that makes it over here, she seems like she is quite the scum-bag herself. Even if she isn't as terrible as Trump, she certainly seems like the worst kind of politician and someone that probably doesn't deserve to be in office.

My guess is the ties to the "Alt-right" aka white supremacist movement, i know they have been using memes like that frog thing to hype up white supremacist stuff as well as stuff for trump so i guess this has to do with that? The problem with backing trump is you get grouped with people like that, shits crazy atm.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
#22 Posted by BigSocrates (1957 posts) -

As someone who isn't American, can someone explain how supporting being anti-Hilary automatically makes you a racist? From the info that makes it over here, she seems like she is quite the scum-bag herself. Even if she isn't as terrible as Trump, she certainly seems like the worst kind of politician and someone that probably doesn't deserve to be in office.

This is a very unfair assessment of Hillary Clinton, who is a flawed person and politician, no doubt, but has also been relentlessly attacked for things that other politicians get a pass for (For example Colin Powell was even more secretive with his email and advised Hillary to use a private server, and nobody cares, and the so-called scandal around her foundation relies on thin evidence like the fact that she had a meeting with a Nobel Peace Prize winner who also donated to the foundation and was being persecuted by his government.)

But that's irrelevant. Not liking Hillary Clinton doesn't make you a racist. You can not like her for a host of non-prejudiced reasons.

Supporting Donald Trump, whose campaign has lots of ties to white supremacist groups including being run by a man whose previous job was running a website beloved by white supremacists, on the other hand...

Palmer Luckey supports Trump.

Avatar image for beforet
#23 Posted by beforet (3470 posts) -

I just feel kind of gross. Bashing Hilary is one thing. Like yeah, whatever, make your email memes. Funding alt-rights is another. Good to see that Facebook money went to a good place...

Avatar image for devvyboyyy
#24 Posted by DevvyBoyyy (195 posts) -

@yakov456 said:

Seeing as it says he sold Oculus to Facebook in 2014 I'm not exactly sure how throwing it out would accomplish anything.

That was mostly a joke. Keep your Oculus.

Avatar image for arbitrarywater
#25 Posted by ArbitraryWater (15648 posts) -

As someone who isn't American, can someone explain how supporting being anti-Hilary automatically makes you a racist? From the info that makes it over here, she seems like she is quite the scum-bag herself. Even if she isn't as terrible as Trump, she certainly seems like the worst kind of politician and someone that probably doesn't deserve to be in office.

I think it probably has something to do with the particular brand of scummy internet folk he's associating with and funding, some of whom are adjacent to or sympathetic to a certain movement "concerned with the ethics of games journalism."

Avatar image for ajamafalous
#26 Posted by ajamafalous (13809 posts) -

I saw this on twitter earlier and I now have zero intention of ever buying an Oculus Rift, something that I was weighing considering I don't think I actually have enough room to take advantage of the Vive's roomscale stuff.

Avatar image for devvyboyyy
#27 Posted by DevvyBoyyy (195 posts) -

@csl316 said:

It's dumb, but is it really that awful?

The people of the alt-right movement are the worst in America right now, so funding them is pretty awful, yeah.

Avatar image for soulcake
#28 Posted by soulcake (2569 posts) -

Knife Collection or Bad Meme's hard choices. I think the Thread title is a bit harsh. Since the US still is a free country (as far as i know #Police state ) Mister Lucky can do what he wants with his money. Even if it's investing in a bad Democrat Meme Generator #Obama "Hussein" Barack. Fuck man i hate US elections at least in Russian Elections you know who's winning :P #PutinWinsLoL

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#29 Posted by audioBusting (2558 posts) -

lmao this is amazing, I did not see this coming

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#30 Posted by Relkin (1096 posts) -

As a fan of 7 years, I'd probably leave GB if he was to show up on another live show.

Don't you think that's an overreaction? Sure the guy is an ass, but I'm not going to cut ties with anyone who interacts with him. If he does show up on some piece of GB content in the future, don't watch the content and/or voice your opinion on the matter here in the forums.

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#31 Edited by theveej (944 posts) -

Wow what a heel turn. I'm going with the VR headset that funds some fat dude Knife collection instead.

#Vive4Lyfe

Avatar image for kedi2
#32 Posted by Kedi2 (340 posts) -

Just read about this a bit earlier and I've definitely lost all respect for Palmer Luckey. Not liking Hillary Clinton is one thing (and there are legitimate reasons to dislike her), but aligning himself with alt-right people is just plain disgusting.

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#33 Posted by CrimsonJesus (305 posts) -

Wow that's fucked up. I wonder he'd ever be welcome back at a GB show considering how anti-Trump most of the staff has been.

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#34 Posted by phishyphishy (74 posts) -

Hell, if you want to get into racism. What about when, in 96' Hilary called black people "super-predators," and "we need to bring them to heel."

As you point out this was said over 20 years ago. This seems like a reasonable amount of time to believe someone might change their position. Ronald Regan (a conservative hero) was a democrat early in his political career. Richard Nixon who was one of the most stanch Cold War warriors opened up dialog with communist China. Even Hillary was once a Republican and campaigned for Goldwater (one of the most conservative candidates ever). So, I find it hard to stick it to someone for a 20 year old quote.

Avatar image for kasaioni
#35 Edited by kasaioni (2397 posts) -

Wait, this isn't a joke?

@crimsonjesus Especially Brad who, at least on his Twitter, has been pretty vocal about his opposition to Trump.

Avatar image for monetarydread
#36 Posted by monetarydread (2887 posts) -

This is a very unfair assessment of Hillary Clinton, who is a flawed person and politician, no doubt, but has also been relentlessly attacked for things that other politicians get a pass for (For example Colin Powell was even more secretive with his email and advised Hillary to use a private server, and nobody cares, and the so-called scandal around her foundation relies on thin evidence like the fact that she had a meeting with a Nobel Peace Prize winner who also donated to the foundation and was being persecuted by his government.)

But that's irrelevant. Not liking Hillary Clinton doesn't make you a racist. You can not like her for a host of non-prejudiced reasons.

Supporting Donald Trump, whose campaign has lots of ties to white supremacist groups including being run by a man whose previous job was running a website beloved by white supremacists, on the other hand...

Palmer Luckey supports Trump.

  • The issue is that politicians should "just get a pass," they should be held to higher standards of scrutiny. The email thing isn't something that should jsut be swept under the rug because anyone who was of lesser standing than secretary of state would have been fired for that. The FBI said that she broke the law, but since Colin Powell did the same thing, they would only have a 50/50 shot of proving Mens Rea in a court of law.
  • She has been blatantly racist in the past. Like, in 96' Hilary called black people "super-predators," and "we need to bring them to heel."
  • She (like almost all politicians, to be fair) takes donations from corporate backers. The big one causing her controversy is donations from wall street. She says she will push for reform on wall street, which would seemingly be a conflict of interest since they're donating to her campaign. Hell, if you search Twitter with the hastage #whichhilary you will get a long list of everytime she promised one thing and then never followed through, it seems like a recurring theme for her (again, like most politicians, but why is that just accepted?)
  • She was opposed to gay marriage until 2009
  • She has been surrounded with scandals since the 80's. Nothing ever seems to stick, but I am a firm believer in "where theres smoke, theres fire," and its only a matter of time before the skeletons in her closet get exposed.
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#37 Posted by TracerX (147 posts) -

Wow. Y'know, despite everything that Oculus has screwed up since launching the Rift, I was still rooting for them. They had such a positive image, and Palmer seemed like such a genuinely nice guy.

Funding fucking Trump supporter memes. Just incredible.

Fuck that dude.

Avatar image for mikemcn
#38 Edited by Mikemcn (8565 posts) -

Hey, let's all agree, anti-candidate memes are just good democracy. Or just good internet, not sure there's much of a difference anymore. Although the hillary for jail people to need to think about the terrible shit drumpf has done.

But fuck the rest of that. Reading this made my che-guevera beard and beret combo grow three sizes larger:

“The American Revolution was funded by wealthy individuals,” NimbleRichMan wrote on Saturday. Luckey confirmed to The Daily Beast he penned the posts under his Reddit pseudonym. “The same has been true of many movements for freedom in history. You can’t fight the American elite without serious firepower. They will outspend you and destroy you by any and all means.”

Avatar image for squirrelgod
#39 Posted by SquirrelGOD (596 posts) -

Oh for fuck's sake. Is this damn forum trying to become NeoGAF Jr.? Look, I think Trump is a dumbass as much as anyone else (not a fan of Hillary either, but that doesn't really matter here), but I'm not going to completely condemn someone and claim that they are a shitbag and a complete monster just because it comes out that they have different political affiliations/beliefs from me. This shit-flinging has become so insanely hypocritical, and this weird internet culture of "YOU'RE EITHER 100% WITH US OR 100% AGAINST US" is just pathetic. I can't wait for this election cycle to end.

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#40 Posted by BisonHero (11550 posts) -

What a clip-on tie.

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#41 Posted by deactivated-5ba16609964d9 (3361 posts) -

@soulcake said:

Knife Collection or Bad Meme's hard choices. I think the Thread title is a bit harsh. Since the US still is a free country (as far as i know #Police state ) Mister Lucky can do what he wants with his money. Even if it's investing in a bad Democrat Meme Generator #Obama "Hussein" Barack. Fuck man i hate US elections at least in Russian Elections you know who's winning :P #PutinWinsLoL

It's true Palmer is free to do as he likes with his money including spending to fund hate groups. We are also free to call out Palmer for being a hate monger and to boycott the Oculus. I'm sure Facebook is going to distance themselves as far as possible from Palmer as soon as possible.

Goddamn I expected something this shitty from Notch, the guy that created Minecraft, but not that shoeless beach jumping Palmer.

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#43 Posted by justinrwalsh (26 posts) -

As a Hillary supporter (not trying to get political, just being up front since this thread is inherently political), I have mixed feelings. On a personal level, this essentially cements that I would rather get a Vive (or PSVR) than an Oculus. Admittedly, Vive already had a better experience, but the difference to ME was negligible. I was sort of on the fence previously from a "if/when I buy VR I will get X" standpoint. Now, this gives me a very concrete reason to use my wallet as speech and...take my business elsewhere.

On another level, he is well within his rights to throw his money from the FB purchase of Oculus on a dumpster fire of shit posting memes. I... honestly, I think that this is more a revelation that he's an idiot in terms of how he funds his political ideals, rather than some wild corruption revelation as some media outlets are purporting. Like... I would be far more worried if Luckey was pumping millions into ad buys in swing states. Instead, he's funding the creation and posting of dumb (and often off color) memes to 4chan, 8chan, reddit, etc. To me, that just gives me more reason to shake my head at how poorly the entire Trump campaign is being run.

From a "how does this impact Giant Bomb" standpoint, it gets tricky. Does GB just make the whole "we aren't going to have Trump Supporters on our live shows" deal? Because that is fundamentally stupid, when it comes to informing GB users. If Oculus is doing something new or interesting, and Oculus is the person giving out the info, it doesn't immediately make sense for them to just be like WELP WE AINT COVERING OCULUS NOW BC PALMER IS A RARE PEPE. I think that it would be prudent to limit Luckey interaction to interviews, and it may be a bit weiiiiird to see him at a GB E3 live show section, but not because I personally have an issue with it- Giant Bomb is a decently liberal place. I can't imagine Brad Shoemaker being able to hold his tongue in the same room with Luckey with this knowledge. In fact, I can't imagine anyone on Giant Bomb being able to interact with him the same way from a "public content consumption" standpoint.

TLDR- I don't want to see FUN content from GB that involves Luckey, but if Luckey is going to continue being the person divvying out the information on Oculus VR news, I don't have an issue with GB interviewing Luckey on a professional level. Now, if Luckey no longer is at Oculus? I don't see any reason for him to ever show up on Giant Bomb content again, mainly because this information sorta poisoned the well.

PS- I'd like to clarify that just b/c I'm a Hillary supporter, doesn't mean I'm trying to push for her in this thread. I don't want to have that debate/conversation. I'm 6000% fine with people not liking Trump and ALSO not being a fan of Hillary. So I guess take my comments under that light.

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#44 Edited by Milkman (19248 posts) -

@monetarydread: this thread isn't about Hillary. if you want to argue about any of this shit, I'm sure you can find plenty of other places to do it.

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#45 Posted by Rebel_Scum (1438 posts) -

I've had a feeling that Palmer sucked for a while, after I saw he followed Martin Shkreli

I'm pretty sure what the media said about that guy was inaccurate and blown out of proportion. That HIV drug you can get for free from your doctor apparently.

Avatar image for zeik
#46 Posted by Zeik (5183 posts) -

What a clip-on tie.

This is the only good comment in this (quickly descending into terrible) thread.

Avatar image for jackburtonme
#47 Edited by jackburtonme (374 posts) -

My main takeaway from this is that, from both sides (which is an absurd idea in itself), the level of hyperbole and vitriol, and the speed at which it is generated, is honestly getting a little frightening. There are human beings on the other side of these screens.

Avatar image for indiana_jenkins
#48 Posted by Indiana_Jenkins (459 posts) -

I think the most damaging part is that this was all done in secret. This is a weird thing to even say aloud, but I would be more ok if this stuff would have been more upfront. For lack of a better way to phrase it, I have more respect for a shitbag that tells you he's a shitbag vs a paper bag that smells bad and is leaking on my desk and, oh god is there shit in this bag? Who would put a shitbag on my desk like that?

This is why I have trust issues.

Avatar image for deactivated-5ba16609964d9
#49 Posted by deactivated-5ba16609964d9 (3361 posts) -

I'll just be happy when this election is over. Doesn't mean Palmer isn't an idiot.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
#50 Posted by BigSocrates (1957 posts) -

@bigsocrates said:

This is a very unfair assessment of Hillary Clinton, who is a flawed person and politician, no doubt, but has also been relentlessly attacked for things that other politicians get a pass for (For example Colin Powell was even more secretive with his email and advised Hillary to use a private server, and nobody cares, and the so-called scandal around her foundation relies on thin evidence like the fact that she had a meeting with a Nobel Peace Prize winner who also donated to the foundation and was being persecuted by his government.)

But that's irrelevant. Not liking Hillary Clinton doesn't make you a racist. You can not like her for a host of non-prejudiced reasons.

Supporting Donald Trump, whose campaign has lots of ties to white supremacist groups including being run by a man whose previous job was running a website beloved by white supremacists, on the other hand...

Palmer Luckey supports Trump.

  • The issue is that politicians should "just get a pass," they should be held to higher standards of scrutiny. The email thing isn't something that should jsut be swept under the rug because anyone who was of lesser standing than secretary of state would have been fired for that. The FBI said that she broke the law, but since Colin Powell did the same thing, they would only have a 50/50 shot of proving Mens Rea in a court of law.
  • She has been blatantly racist in the past. Like, in 96' Hilary called black people "super-predators," and "we need to bring them to heel."
  • She (like almost all politicians, to be fair) takes donations from corporate backers. The big one causing her controversy is donations from wall street. She says she will push for reform on wall street, which would seemingly be a conflict of interest since they're donating to her campaign. Hell, if you search Twitter with the hastage #whichhilary you will get a long list of everytime she promised one thing and then never followed through, it seems like a recurring theme for her (again, like most politicians, but why is that just accepted?)
  • She was opposed to gay marriage until 2009
  • She has been surrounded with scandals since the 80's. Nothing ever seems to stick, but I am a firm believer in "where theres smoke, theres fire," and its only a matter of time before the skeletons in her closet get exposed.

As I said, Hillary Clinton is flawed and not liking her isn't the part of what Palmer Luckey is doing that makes him racist. Consorting with racists is the problem. That being said, your criticisms are somewhat self-refuting. For one thing, she has been heavily investigated by just about everyone for over 20 years. The idea that "it's only a matter of time before the skeletons in her closet get exposed" seems rather strange in the context of the intense scrutiny she has faced. You also admit that other politicians are just as bad, so she's a somewhat normal candidate. You may want a non-politician then (there are reasons why this is not a good idea, but I don't want to get that deep into the weeds) but even if that's the case, Trump, who has had more and worse scandals than Hillary, is not that guy.

The rest of what you blame her for are mostly just the result of being a longstanding public figure. Only very few people were pro gay marriage in the 1990s, and over time her views evolved, along with most of the country. When she made that statement about "Super predators" there was extremely high crime in the U.S. and in fact a fair amount of the African American community leadership supported Bill Clinton's crime bill (which turned out to be bad, but was not viewed at the time as universally racist.) She's changed her position over the 25 years she's been a national position, but show me someone who hasn't changed their positions in that length of time and I'll show you someone who is stagnating and failing to adapt to the world (or just freakishly forward thinking.) She's made mistakes and shown bad judgment, as has almost everyone. They just aren't under a 25 year spotlight.

So Clinton isn't always on the cutting edge of social justice and has held bad positions in the past. If you think that's disqualifying you're going to have a hard time finding candidates you like, especially older candidates, but you're entitled to that position.

But whatever sins you accuse her of, Trump is guilty of ten times over, so the point still stands. Luckey consorted with the alt-right and supports a proto-fascist racist candidate. That's his big sin, not disliking Hillary.