Avatar image for xanadu
#1 Posted by xanadu (2032 posts) -

I just watched episode 131 of Dragon Ball Super, the vaguely suggested final episode. Overall, I liked it a lot. But in an arc that's ruffly 55 episodes long, a 2 episode finale just didn't feel like enough to leave me completely satisfied. Ill definitely be wanting another episode by next week. The animation especially at the end when 17, Goku, and Freeza are teaming up is pretty stellar. Also it was pretty predictable that all the universes would be wished back but finding out Zen-oh Sama woudl've erased everything if an evil wish was made is pretty interesting. I also liked Beerus quickly making Goku shut the fuck up when Zen asks him what's next. The first ending credits was pretty goo with the banquet leading to a sparring match between Vegeta and Goku, as well as Freeza looking like he's up to some sinister shit.

I know there is a movie coming out in the future but I wonder if this really is it for Dragon Ball Super. The narrator at the end seemed to hint that it was not completely ending. But weather that is more episodes of super or a new show, it's not exactly clear. Personally I think I would like a new show more. I loved Super, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it entirely takes place between the final few episodes of Dragon Ball Z. It's after Goku defeats Kid Buu but before he fights Uub (fucking Uub) at the world tournament. It basically gives everyone on the whole show tremendous plot armor. It'd be cool to see something that really takes place after Z. Never the less, I still liked Super a lot and am sad to see it go for the time being. So long Super, back to following along with All Systems Goku...

Avatar image for ichthy
#2 Edited by ichthy (1352 posts) -

Vegeta's face when seeing Goku and Frieza 2v1 Jiren was pretty great. Also, callback.

Avatar image for bradbrains
#3 Posted by BradBrains (2257 posts) -

I mostly liked it but the wish itself seemed obvious and then it seemed they kinda said "anyway things are done see ya montage time" The ending to the other series (even GT. maybe even especially GT) felt like a true end. it was a sad calm. This didnt feel like that.

Which is probably on purpose because of movies and such

Avatar image for burncoat
#4 Posted by burncoat (543 posts) -

Super might be over, but I wouldn't count out a Dragon Ball Universe or something like that in the future. Still waiting on a special or movie or something where Vegeta gets to visit Universe 6's Saiyan homeworld.

I was expecting a couple of things to happen differently in the ending. For one thing, it felt like there was something sinister going on with the angels. We see the Furry Universe 9 angel looking pleased that it was erased and the Great Priest's cavalier demeanor to calling out universe erasures and it all seemed to be foreshadowing something akin to Zamasu's mortal extinction plan where only the hierarchy of the universes could survive. I guess it all tied into Zen-Oh's belief that the winner would reverse all the erasures, but I was expecting something more from it. Maybe in the future?

Also I was not seeing 17 being the last man standing at all. Everything seemed to be pointing to Freiza snaking his way in to being the last person. I was also fully expecting him to just hide back when everyone thought he was out for the count and rush in to try to make his wish, completely oblivious to the precise nature of the Super Dragon Balls (which would've been a nice believable callback to when he tried that with Porunga). Kinda glad it worked out differently than I imagined.

Overall, I don't think this is it for Dragon Ball. I think after the collective criticism of Jiren and the pacing of the final arc they're going to need time to brainstorm several new story lines. I'm kinda hoping they will just completely forget about or retcon the "Goku fights Uub" ending of the original series. At the very least, don't be afraid to write off GT as completely non-canon (especially since Pilaf and the gang are seen to be super old at the beginning of GT while in Super they're young and loving being involved with everyone).

Avatar image for holycrapitsadam
#5 Posted by holycrapitsadam (691 posts) -

I enjoyed it and I am excited to see what’s next for Dragon Ball.

Avatar image for justin258
#6 Posted by Justin258 (15579 posts) -

@burncoat:

Also I was not seeing 17 being the last man standing at all.

I've only seen bits and pieces of Super - enough to have a fragmented idea of what all happened in it - but Android 17, of all people, being not only relevant again but able to stand toe-to-toe with guys giving Goku trouble still blows my fucking mind. I don't really have a problem with it, but why him? Of all the forgotten Dragonball cast to bring back and give a power boost, 17 doesn't seem particularly likely. 18 seems to have been a bigger part of Super than anyone might have guessed, too, so I guess Toriyama just wanted more out of both characters?

Anyway, I did see several episodes of this Tournament arc and my opinion flip-flopped back and forth so many times that I have no idea if I liked what I saw or not. Sometimes, it was pretty fucking cool. Sometimes, it was painfully obvious that the writers were just making this shit up as they went along. "We need someone to help Frieza fight Jiren! Oh, let's just say that 17 survived blowing himself up, all right, done, we're back in the game"! Also, Jiren's design is terrible, that guy looks pretty lame.

Avatar image for quantris
#7 Posted by Quantris (1246 posts) -

Agree with most of the comments here. It was definitely a predictable ending (well, I didn't think it would be 17), and we already knew based on where we were at a few weeks ago that things would either be very rushed or we'd get a cliffhanger (glad it wasn't that at least).

17 + Frieza action in this episode was pretty satisfying! It's a shame we didn't get to see more stuff like that in this arc (I'm a fan of the androids and wish they'd do something more interesting with their infinite energy).

Super overall I thought was pretty good. I felt like it was most interesting around when Hit was introduced though...stuff like Golden Frieza and Jiren's "trauma" struck me as pretty lame comparatively. In future, I hope we see more of Vegeta's extra-blue SS + the universe 6 Saiyans. That or Gohan Blanco. I'd be up for a Goku-less spinoff series at this point.

Avatar image for xanadu
#8 Posted by xanadu (2032 posts) -

@ichthy: huh that callback is really cool. Definitely went right over my head when I watched it though.

Avatar image for alvarofaraujo
#9 Posted by AlvaroFAraujo (357 posts) -

@ichthy:That call back was predictable the moment you see the mountains on the background. I Teared a bit.

@justin258: They do sorta of explain that when Goku recruits 17. The fundamental reason is that Dr. Gero created basically 2 identical androids, made from assimilating humans with Tech. thats why 18 can have babies, cause the only thing Krillin asked for was to remove the bombs inside 17/18. Since they are made from humans if they had followed to train after being awoke they could have reached the same strength Goku shows in SSJBlue. This is why 17 is so much stronger than 18, and paired with their Endless Energy pool, he can pretty much be the strongest fighter from their universe (in a long run).

This whole arc was cool but at some moments disappointing. I liked Califa and Jiren. But since they had to stretch this as much as they could they pin Goku against most of the strongest fighters making him waste stamina as the match goes on. TBH its incredible how he still remains standing throughout all that. As for 17 showing up in the end, they should have do better with that. It was a great moment when you hear the Great priest announce 17 sacrificed himself to give Goku and Vegeta a chance, but i guess since he is an android and he doesnt emit "life signs", the Great Priest might have made a mistake?!

At the end I got to see what i hoped to see. The moment Freeza got offscreen a few episodes back, and after 17 sacrifice, i hoped Goku would go out of bonds with Jiren and make Freeza win being the solo fighter in the arena at the end. But they brought back 17 so when Freeza gets to be a "good" guy for once I kinda enjoyed it. The tag team strats were fenomenal and the "throw me! " where Frieza lands that Rush move, shown also against Goku's 20x kamehameha during Namek, was also a great callback too.

Lets say I'm excited to watch the movie on December

Avatar image for pyrodactyl
#10 Edited by pyrodactyl (4221 posts) -

I thought the finale was already out last week so I watched the last 2 episodes looking for a bombastic finale with good climactic fight scenes. Unfortunately I didn't see any of that because MAN is this show bad. The editing, animation, music placement, it's all wrong. I wonder if it's because the show it's weekly toei show or if the manga is just kinda bad to begin with.

Avatar image for sanj
#11 Edited by Sanj (3246 posts) -

It was a great finale. This show isn't what I really love about classic DBZ (rewatching Kai atm, so hard to not make comparisons), but for what it is, it's a whole lotta fun.

Avatar image for acura_max
#12 Posted by Acura_Max (742 posts) -

If the series is going on a break, I would say they needed it. This season has been pretty lackluster in how it was paced and ended. It felt like everything was being stretched to its limits. I found myself skipping episodes and not missing a thing.

Avatar image for justin258
#13 Posted by Justin258 (15579 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: Dragonball Super was anime first, manga second.

Avatar image for seikenfreak
#14 Edited by Seikenfreak (1492 posts) -

Watched it earlier today. Kinda back and forth on the Universe Tournament saga. I watched the first 13ish episodes of Super years ago and I thought it was kinda stupid when all this SSJ God BS stuff started happening so I stopped after that fight ended. Then the Jeff/Dan DBZ resurgence and playing DB FighterZ (albeit very briefly) put me in some kinda mood. I gave Super another go and was enjoying up until they resurrected Freiza that first time and I was like ugggggh whhhyyy.. Let this character go, jesus. It felt so recycled that I almost bailed again, but I pushed through and really started enjoying it. Binged the whole thing up to the current release (which was episode 126 I think?) over the span of some days.

Annnnnywaaaay, this tournament felt like it dragged on a bit too long. I'm assuming the whole "this tournament is 48 mins!" and literally taking dozens of episodes was a bit of a joke but I didn't think it was funny. I just kept thinking.. "Okay, they said there is only 5 mins left.. like 15 episodes ago. This is ridiculous" and it was pulling me out of the moments. Felt like it could've been more interesting if they actually factored the time into it so people would actually rush and maybe get sloppy etc. Instead of the stupid "OMG FINISH HIM! Nah I'm gonna stand here and talk about it and drop my guard" that has plagued the series. In terms of the wish/winner situation, I was really expecting Freiza to finish Goku off after he wore himself out with Jiren and then Freiza pulls some crazy wish, becomes some kinda god/immortal/who knows what... and then saga finale! Then we're all left thirsty as hell for whats next. That or Freiza makes some wish, becomes powerful, and then Zen just bitch-slaps him out of existence which would be amusing.

They are definitely going to make more. Pretty much the entire time while watching Super I kept thinking I want a pseudo remade GT kinda thing where its Pan grown up a bit like in GT, add in Bulma/Vegeta's kid (can't remember name), add in Trunks and Goten grown up a bit.. and have them doing all sorts of smaller stories throughout the universes! Pan is so unbelievably cute in Super and I always loved Goten so I want to see him grow up. I also think it'd be fun (and what I hoped they were going to do but didnt) if Goku had brought Pan to Zen as a friend to play with.. and then kinda fills in later how Pan goes on all these adventures around the universes and is casually friends with the God of all things lol Those were the parts I really had fun with in Super; seeing all these weird worlds and creatures. Surprising new characters etc. I want Vegeta to go to the Saiyan planet in the other universe.

How's that for some word barf?

Avatar image for raviolisumo
#15 Posted by RavioliSumo (2227 posts) -

Pretty decent end to a mediocre arc. Interested in the movie.

Avatar image for rawrz
#16 Edited by Rawrz (673 posts) -

I quite enjoyed the finale and thought it wrapped up pretty nicely while thankfully leaving stuff open for the future. At the beginning of Super I wasn't sure how things would go but then found the series a whole got better as time went on. Still baffled when people praise Z but then hate on Super even though Z is full of issues as well but nostalgia has it on some untouchable pedestal even though it's about as flawed as Super. At least Super redeemed the franchise after the mess that was GT

Avatar image for ravelle
#18 Posted by Ravelle (3290 posts) -

A pretty cool finale, it could have have wrapped up way sooner though.

I really enjoyed Freeza's part in Super, he became a really fun character, I hope they use this tournament arc as a launch pad to use all the characters in an interesting way from here on out.

Avatar image for wchigo
#19 Posted by wchigo (900 posts) -

I have my fair share of issues with Super in general that I won't get into here, but my hot take on the Tournament of Power right now is a solid 'meh.' It's not the worst arc in Super, but it has inconsistency issues with power levels, the same problem with time as the Freiza fight back in original DBZ (longest 5 minutes ever) and so on. The worst part of it though, in my opinion, is we basically end up RIGHT WHERE WE STARTED BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT OF POWER TOOK PLACE.

We have the same 12 universes, which are going about their business as if they were never erased, nobody really got anything out of it or learned anything... and the worst thing is the bullshit about Goku no longer being able to use Ultra Instinct! So it seems Goku and Vegeta can only go SSGSS now (can Vegeta still go into his Limit Breaker form? Who knows!) for arbitrary reasons, probably because they wrote themselves into a corner with a "character" who is stronger than a God of Destruction, then having Goku obtain a form even more powerful than that. So since they can't think of an interesting way to keep things going, they just decide to have Goku not be able to use it anymore. Or, at least, not use it easily and only pull it out when he's up against some huge threat that he can't handle with only SSGSS (so when the plot needs him to be able to use it).

Honestly, the only lasting result of the tournament is that Freiza is alive again. That's basically it. So while we got some real cool fight scenes (including the Goku+Freiza+17 vs Jiren battle which was awesome) out of it, the tournament as a whole really just kind of ended with a wet fart, especially with an ending we could see coming from miles away.

Avatar image for harinosho
#20 Posted by harinosho (746 posts) -

Super had its ups and downs, my main issue with it was the art and animation overall. I was hoping that Gohan would step up in DBS but alas it fell back to Goku, which is fine.. I guess. Got to find out the Goku never kissed his wife, which was amazing.

The Tournament of Power arc was pretty interesting as it showed off just how much progress characters such as master Roshi, Tien and the rest has made while the Saiyans kept powering up and becoming gods. The fights were meh to great, mostly meh. The one "battle" I remember was two fighters basically pushing a energy ball back and forth, it looked like I was watching bad flash animation.

If there is ever another series, I would hope they get some new blood, Mr Toriyama is getting up there in age and I'm guessing the lack of variety in character design in the series is due to this (in one interview he has said SSJ3 takes too much time and is a strain). Maybe have him in an advisory role to keep the art direction the same.

Avatar image for turambar
#21 Posted by Turambar (8251 posts) -

If there is ever another series, I would hope they get some new blood, Mr Toriyama is getting up there in age and I'm guessing the lack of variety in character design in the series is due to this (in one interview he has said SSJ3 takes too much time and is a strain). Maybe have him in an advisory role to keep the art direction the same.

That's basically what the manga version of DBS is.

Avatar image for harinosho
#22 Posted by harinosho (746 posts) -

@turambar said:
@harinosho said:

If there is ever another series, I would hope they get some new blood, Mr Toriyama is getting up there in age and I'm guessing the lack of variety in character design in the series is due to this (in one interview he has said SSJ3 takes too much time and is a strain). Maybe have him in an advisory role to keep the art direction the same.

That's basically what the manga version of DBS is.

If thats true, then the next logical step would be for the anime to follow the way the manga is being run if there ever is a new series.

Dragon Ball Infinite.

Avatar image for mezmero
#23 Edited by mezmero (3721 posts) -

Thought it was decent though extremely predictable. This was really the only story arc of DBS that I watched to completion as I generally didn't keep up with the show before then. I feel like my thoughts haven't really changed from when I post about it on the anime thread. I genuinely loved seeing the multiverse in the style of Toriyama. It's sort of disappointing how many of them just fall into the generic DBZ brand of hatatatata martial arts even it's to be expected. Though they weren't particularly deep characters I think just having some badass female Super Saiyans was rad. I liked seeing all the weird robots and monsters that feel like they'd be right at home in Dragon Quest or Dr. Slump. And I kind of loved Jiren as the most boring basic grey alien somehow at the top of the food chain in all the multiverse and it's a funny bit of contrast to Goku. Of the Z fighters the ones who shined the most to me were Vegeta, Frieza, Roshi, and Krillin. Everyone else was sort of whatevs. In some ways the arc peaked early for me with Roshi using all his OG DragonBall techniques like a boss. While it was generally still enjoyable after that it never reached that amount of hype for me personally.

Avatar image for octaslash
#24 Posted by Octaslash (766 posts) -

The finale might be my favorite episode of all of Dragon Ball. I really enjoyed the mostly upbeat and positive tone of this arc despite the stakes being higher than ever. Even Jiren got over himself and smiled through one of the most well animated fights of the series. Like Sayians, pretty much no character has limits at this point and I think that's a very good thing if they continue the series later on.