Elliot Rodger's was freaking nuts.

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#51 Posted by splodge (2775 posts) -

@splodge said:

@tourgen said:

full blown narcissistic psychopath. he talks about his plans to kill his younger brother because he can't deal with the thought of him getting laid first.

I am sad that people are trying to weave this into some sort of discussion of social issues. There isn't anything meaningful to say there.

The real problem I have with it, apart from what he did, is that people are making his videos INCREDIBLY popular by linking to them everywhere. No one is talking about the fact that this kind of coverage is exactly what any narcissistic killer wants. His name should never be mentioned.

In an ideal world, when something awful like this happens, there would be an announcement on TV, his name mentioned once, and then any media coverage is focused purely on the families of victims and any charitable efforts one can donate to, etc. But this is not an ideal world, and this guys banal ramblings make for good television.

I disagree. When someone is motivated to kill because of a poisonous ideology and able to because of deep societal problems, those triggers deserve to be exposed and discussed. Ignoring them does a disservice to the victims.

I understand that, but I think more damage is done by giving these killers all the attention they craved. It encourages other to do the same. There is a consistent pattern of that.

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#52 Posted by Veektarius (6410 posts) -

You need to reevaluate your use of the apostrophe.

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#53 Edited by Demoskinos (17459 posts) -

@chrissedoff: I'm sorry but I don't think anyone is unredeemable. And I think its sad you think that. Hate just begets more hate. Ive been to some dark dark places in my mind. The thing that helped me is I had friends who gave a shit and put up with my bullshit and helped me through the years where my head was a mess.

This kid needed a support system that he didn't have. Money doesn't buy happiness.

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#54 Edited by chrissedoff (2387 posts) -

@splodge: It could be pretty dangerous if people never talked about mass murders, policy-wise. Maybe a lot of these killers crave the attention they will get if they shoot a bunch of people, but attempting to take away the attention aspect of it by wagging a finger at people who talk about shocking and tragic events and then hoping for the best seems like the kind of feeble excuse for a solution that only gets brought up after most people have given up on trying to address the more challenging issues that are presented when incidents like this happen.

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#55 Posted by YoThatLimp (2508 posts) -

@evilsbane said:

@machofantastico said:

Yes he was mentally unstable, but I'm still amazed by how lax the gun laws are in America. I'm amazed this doesn't happen more often.

Heard one guy say the only way to stop this sort of thing is to give more good guys guns. Where is the sense in that, it's like if he's got a big gun we need a bigger gun. Now I don't live in America so can't appreciate how guns are seen over there, but from an outside perspective the handling of gun laws is baffling to me.

Feel sorry for the families are those killed and hurt in this awful situation.

The fact that it doesn't happen more often should show you that just because something is accessible by the public doesn't mean everyone is gonna go grab a gun and shoot someone.

But they do happen fairly frequently. In the past four years, there was a school shooting about once every two months.

Guns have always been a part of American culture but this thing is a relatively new thing. Would you agree that gutting mental healthcare systems in the 80's are probably the cause and not the tools? These sick people fall through cracks and end up hurting others, it is probably time to reassess our mental healthcare system.

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#56 Edited by splodge (2775 posts) -

@chrissedoff said:

@splodge: It could be pretty dangerous if people never talked about mass murders, policy-wise. Maybe a lot of these killers crave the attention they will get if they shoot a bunch of people, but attempting to take away the attention aspect of it by wagging a finger at people who talk about shocking and tragic events and then hoping for the best seems like the kind of feeble excuse for a solution that only gets brought up after most people have given up on trying to address the more challenging issues that are presented when incidents like this happen.

I'm not saying people should not talk about it, I am saying that it does not deserve the media firestorm it gets, because that was the killer's intention.

I don't think the average person talking about it on a web forum and discussing what caused it to happen is a bad idea, but having his name, his face, and his manifesto plastered over every media outlet is encouraging for mentally ill people who have fantasies about doing it themselves.

I admit, I do not know how to solve that problem. The end result though, is the killer got exactly what he wanted.

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#57 Edited by Video_Game_King (36564 posts) -

@yothatlimp said:

@video_game_king said:

But they do happen fairly frequently. In the past four years, there was a school shooting about once every two months.

Guns have always been a part of American culture but this thing is a relatively new thing. Would you agree that gutting mental healthcare systems in the 80's are probably the cause and not the tools? These sick people fall through cracks and end up hurting others, it is probably time to reassess our mental healthcare system.

It's a complex issue, to say the least. While Googling that Wikipedia link, I also found this. There's valuable information there that suggests some important things:

  1. Stricter gun control laws probably wouldn't reduce the number of of school shootings (loose use of shooting), but it would probably reduce the severity of them. You'd be left with either knives or bombs, which are less likely to result in high levels of violence (knives because of distance, bombs because of complexity or whatever).
  2. Part of solving the issue has to be reworking school culture in general. People know about school shootings in advance, but don't speak up for one reason or another. That sounds a lot like bullying in schools, too, so you could probably kill two birds with one stone.
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#58 Edited by chrissedoff (2387 posts) -

@demoskinos: Except he had parents who cared about him and had been seeing a therapist for a couple of years. He had a healthy support network. He just found omni-directional hatred and punishing the world as more attractive than learning to form relationships that go two ways from the people who were trying to teach him. He started from the assumption that he was God's gift to the world and then evaluated people based on how much they recognized his greatness. I don't even feel hatred towards him. I'm only objectively diagnosing him as a piece of shit based on all of the information I've gathered on him so far. Any sympathetic qualities you're attributing to him are only you projecting your own self onto him because you somewhat identify with not having as many friends as you'd like. That's all it is. You're a nice person who's felt loneliness and alienation at times so you assume that's who he was, only much more extreme. Well, he wasn't. He had every advantage you could ask for, but he couldn't exploit those advantages because he was a toxic, mean, entitled, narcissistic jerk to the tenth power. Don't take any of his sins onto yourself. You're a million times the man he was just by being a normal person.

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#59 Edited by splodge (2775 posts) -

@demoskinos: Except he had parents who cared about him and had been seeing a therapist for a couple of years. He had a healthy support network.

What really creeps me out about it is this very thing. He was seeing a therapist, had expressed his intentions a few times, had even had numerous encounters with the police and no-one caught it (They even said he seemed very calm and respectful). His rage must have went very very deep for him to be able to mask it so effectively. Very scary.

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#60 Edited by forkboy (1650 posts) -

@chrissedoff: I'm sorry but I don't think anyone is unredeemable. And I think its sad you think that. Hate just begets more hate. Ive been to some dark dark places in my mind. The thing that helped me is I had friends who gave a shit and put up with my bullshit and helped me through the years where my head was a mess.

This kid needed a support system that he didn't have. Money doesn't buy happiness.

Look, I think everybody has contemplated dark shit at times. We don't like to talk about it because it's fucking bad and we are ashamed of those thoughts. But ultimately, yeah. If you make that step from dark thoughts to dark actions you are irredeemable.

The kid had plenty of a support system. But he got caught up in self-pitying bullshit and turned that on other people. That's fucked up. I don't need the support of friends to point out that murdering innocent people because nobody will sleep with me is fucking mindblowingly entitled and selfish and abominable. If people don't want to fuck you then maybe, instead of falling deeper into a stream of macho-MRA-PUA bollocks, sit back, and look at yourself. And consider why maybe being a misogynistic fuckwad is a turnoff to women.

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#61 Posted by dagas (3667 posts) -

It is frustrating for people who can't get friends and girl/boyfriends. Not everyone becomes a killer of course but suicide is not uncommon. I was depressed in my early 20's for feeling misunderstood by the opposite sex. But at 26 I found my love. Someone who understands me completely.

Ending it all at 22 when you still have a long time to find someone is such a waste. And to bring others down with you is of course unforgivable. I hope people like this would get help before it becomes so bad things like this happen. And try to stop all the suicides that no one writes about because they don't go on a killing spree first.

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#62 Posted by Video_Game_King (36564 posts) -

@forkboy said:

The kid had plenty of a support system. But he got caught up in self-pitying bullshit and turned that on other people. That's fucked up. I don't need the support of friends to point out that murdering innocent people because nobody will sleep with me is fucking mindblowingly entitled and selfish and abominable. If people don't want to fuck you then maybe, instead of falling deeper into a stream of macho-MRA-PUA bollocks, sit back, and look at yourself. And consider why maybe being a misogynistic fuckwad is a turnoff to women.

There's an irony here that I've seen countless times before.

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#63 Posted by tourgen (4568 posts) -

@splodge said:

@tourgen said:

full blown narcissistic psychopath. he talks about his plans to kill his younger brother because he can't deal with the thought of him getting laid first.

I am sad that people are trying to weave this into some sort of discussion of social issues. There isn't anything meaningful to say there.

The real problem I have with it, apart from what he did, is that people are making his videos INCREDIBLY popular by linking to them everywhere. No one is talking about the fact that this kind of coverage is exactly what any narcissistic killer wants. His name should never be mentioned.

In an ideal world, when something awful like this happens, there would be an announcement on TV, his name mentioned once, and then any media coverage is focused purely on the families of victims and any charitable efforts one can donate to, etc. But this is not an ideal world, and this guys banal ramblings make for good television.

I disagree. When someone is motivated to kill because of a poisonous ideology and able to because of deep societal problems, those triggers deserve to be exposed and discussed. Ignoring them does a disservice to the victims.

I think the part above I bolded is where most people are making a pretty huge and illogical jump.

I think he was a selfish 2 year old in a man's body. Anything beyond that is us forming the situation into what drums in particular we feel like beating to help us make sense of the world.

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#64 Posted by mlarrabee (3917 posts) -

This shouldn't be the time to give attention to the killer, but to give attention those who are no longer with us. No attention should ever be paid to him.

This. I watched about six seconds of the video before I realized what it was and stopped. Whatever problems he had that he could have worked through are beyond fixing now. He made his choice and no longer deserves validation in any form.

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#65 Edited by conmulligan (1934 posts) -

@tourgen:

I think he was a selfish 2 year old in a man's body. Anything beyond that is us forming the situation into what drums in particular we feel like beating to help us make sense of the world.

The guy posted on PUA forums, specifically blamed women for his loneliness and isolation and then targeted a sorority house. Saying he was motivated by MRA and PUA ideology isn't jumping to conclusions.

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#66 Posted by Voxus (412 posts) -

Dude needed some serious serious help. There was obviously multiple things not right with the guy and its a shame no one saw or did anything about it.

Really feel sorry for the victims family and friends.

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#67 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7610 posts) -

The big problem we have is state 'civil commitment' laws can make it difficult or impossible to hospitalize adults involuntarily. Even when their families or caregivers feel threatened and patients appear extremely sick it is nearly impossible to commite someone who does not agree. Most states have crafted their civil commitment laws to protect civil liberties, in reaction to abusive situations in the past (19th & 20th century) where people used 'civil commitment' to do horrible thing to their family members who were merely odd, slightly autistic, or just disagreeable.

We need to recraft our laws because you often find in these shooting cases that family DID contact authorities years, months, or weeks in advance but could do nothing. But here is the issue...it will cost billions. There need to be more hospitals, more group homes, more assisted living, more therapists, more psychologists and psychiatrists and more free/low cost care.

On the other hand better mental health care will help EVERYONE! It is worth every penny even if some of those pennies are spent diagnosing, caring for and protecting the most vile people our society can produce.



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#68 Posted by AlecOfTheWest (293 posts) -

Definitely seems like he's got a form of aspergers or something (not a doctor, won't claim to be one). Shitty situation all around.

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#69 Edited by deactivated-589cf9e3c287e (1984 posts) -

@machofantastico: More laws won't stop people who already have no respect for the law from disrespecting the law.

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#70 Posted by Zella (1275 posts) -

While I agree that society should really be focusing on the victim's families and the Rodger's family I do think that there has to be some discussion about Elliot Rodgers so that this kind of thing can try to be prevented in the future.

The thing that really irks me reading this thread and other reactions is how people damning him, rightfully so, keep using the term spoiled and how it makes him a worse person. While I am not defending the dude for what he did, him being spoiled is no way his fault. A child does not control how they are treated by their parents, especially when it comes to things that determine if a child is "spoiled". Not saying his parents are terrible people or anything but they are the one who spoiled the kid. It does seem that his being spoiled helped feed into his mental issues but it isn't some fault of his that he created. It is also tough because he was born into wealth so he does not know what it is like to want to for stuff, thus the things he goes on about that seem petty to us are not him. It is the whole First World Problems concept, many of us will bitch and moan about only making minimum wage or something while there are 10 year old kids working in sweatshops in other parts of the world. We can sympathize with them but we still feel that our problems are important while to them they would be meaningless petty things.

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#71 Edited by Clonedzero (4206 posts) -

Oh boy, this thread went a big nuts.

Get it!

Ah whatever!

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#72 Posted by Demoskinos (17459 posts) -

@chrissedoff: You brought up some good points and like I said maybe I'm a bit naive about not wanting to think of anyone as a truly bad person. I guess that is how I deal with stuff like this. By trying to think of ways it didn't have to come to this for him or his victims.

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#73 Posted by CornBREDX (7370 posts) -

I think bringing attention to his video is sick. I'm going to ask a mod (@mb@zombiepie) to have the video removed.

Let's not give sociopaths posthumous celebrity, ya'll. Don't be a part of the problem.

This is exactly what Natural Born Killers talks about.

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#74 Posted by intro (1276 posts) -

"I don't get how a guy that was spoiled his whole fucking life. Feels like he deserves more even when he has everything. If he was so desperate to get laid, I'm sure it wouldn't have been hard to get a prostitute."

Well, as you said, he had a mental issue. Until America starts focusing on that and stops blaming guns or video games this stuff will keep happening. It doesn't matter how rich you are or how great your family is, obviously that can be impactful, but isn't a cure to someone's mental health.

And if you watch the video, the reason he didn't get a prostitute was more than likely because he was so egotistical.

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#76 Posted by ajamafalous (13818 posts) -

This should not be a thread.

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#77 Posted by Seppli (11232 posts) -

I read the wiki page on what happend. I got sick to my stomach. Don't be a jerk!

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#78 Posted by chrissedoff (2387 posts) -

@intro said:

"I don't get how a guy that was spoiled his whole fucking life. Feels like he deserves more even when he has everything. If he was so desperate to get laid, I'm sure it wouldn't have been hard to get a prostitute."

Well, as you said, he had a mental issue. Until America starts focusing on that and stops blaming guns or video games this stuff will keep happening. It doesn't matter how rich you are or how great your family is, obviously that can be impactful, but isn't a cure to someone's mental health.

And if you watch the video, the reason he didn't get a prostitute was more than likely because he was so egotistical.

Nobody blames violence on guns themselves. That would be pretty dumb. They blame the easy access to and the fetishization of guns. Apparently, this guy may have killed a few people before his mass shooting without using a gun to do so, so there's more to this than simply keeping a gun out the hands of a potential murderer. However, he unarguably would have done less damage without a gun in his hand. Everyone agrees unanimously that people with murderous intent shouldn't be given the most effective means to carry it out, so it's rational to ask people to weigh the pros and cons of having readily available firearms. Americans actually introduce the topic of gun policy too rarely when they discuss gun violence. It borders on taboo to even talk about gun control.

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#79 Edited by Mike (17998 posts) -

Edited the video out, closing the topic. Plenty of other places on the internet if you want to go and talk about this.

Don't forget that even though we have an Off Topic section, this is ultimately a site about video games. Let's keep the forums fun - which is why we're all here.

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