Ever caught a classmate blatantly cheating?

Cheating in high school is one thing, but do it in college when some of the classes or exams are being graded on a curve and I get pissed. In that case your cheating is directly effecting my grade when I put the work in to learn the material I'm paying for.

Many times, it was me they were cheating off of and I didn't care. School is nothing but a piece of paper that gets your foot in the door. It is your performance once in and on the job learning that determine if you thrive or not, not whether you got A's in highschool or cheated on the SAT.

I had a test once where a dude in my class just yelled out the answer to every question to the entire class.

I once caught a guy copying from my test, it would be one thing if it was multiple choice and it wasn't so obvious he was just copying from me, but I am not getting hit with academic dishonesty just because someone else didn't study.

@video_game_king: yes exactly just like that, put the waded up paper down your pants..

Yes. A girl in my Mandarin class was copying the characters from a scan of our textbook on her phone while taking one of our dictation tests.

Fucking Russians. (no really, she was totally Russian)

Oh and this is at university.

edit: I am not Russian nor am I in Russia.

? No idea what that means.

Yeah, I caught somebody cheating in web design, and yeah, I snitched -- not that the teacher needed much help in figuring out. It would have been one thing if the dude was just lazy, but he was using his supposedly incredible design skills to discourage other students, as well as potentially affecting our grades had he got away with it. He hadn't even tried to make an effort to learn anything either. Maybe I'm an asshole, but I know a lot of people like myself for whom school matters, cannot stand uncaring students -- if you don't like it, don't be there. I ended up with an academic achievement award in that class, no idea how he did.

I only ratted out someone once. I was in a programming class, and one of the project teams had clearly copied their project from somewhere online. The teacher straight up didn't care, though, and they all passed despite not doing any work.

That was in high school though. I never saw any blatant cheating in college, though I'm sure some cheating happened.

Never caught a classmate cheating. Caught several students trying to cheat on some of my papers though.

I had a Russian classmate in an advertising class at one point. She was gorgeous and we spent most of that class talking about LOST.

...I have no idea how good of a student she was, but the Russians are cool with me.

@karkarov said:

Herein lies one of the biggest questions facing primary and secondary education: what exactly is the purpose of schooling, and how does that supposed purpose fit with the expectations students, parents, administrators, legislators, etc, have for it? You seem to feel school should simply be employment prep, technical skills, etc. That is certainly not an uncommon view of it, but it needs to answer the questions of how it fits with various expectations the public have of it.

For example, we hear constant demand that a student needs to be inspired, challenged, have his or her curiosity stoked. How does a curriculum that emphasizes technical and job skills accomplish those things? What about things such as civic responsibility and other rather broad ideas? How should that be incorporated into a class? Should it be?

Who would even be the ones to determine the curriculum in the first place? The idea you bring forth seems to have the commercial world's best interests in mind, as it is designed to help produce well qualified employees, and perhaps future innovators in the field. Should it then be the business world that has the most say in what content goes into a student's curriculum? What roles should others such as administrators, parents, legislators, and teachers play?

Man, you sure sound like a fucking NARC.

We all know what to do with NARCs.....

but yes, i've seen it happen, and even moved my arm so they could see better. If i'm gonna fail and You want to cheat off me then more power to ya.

It's only cheating if you don't get caught (by the professor)

I'm sure you've heard of the idea of "hidden social costs"? An easy example being a power plant being built to lower the cost of electricity in the town, but who's resultant pollution results in lower tourism and higher health care costs? I view academic dishonesty in much the same way. Of course, given my rather different position in the system from most of you, you're free to claim bias on my part.

I've never caught anyone for a test (though I am sure many have. I am usually too focused on my own exam to care about what others are doing), but for a group project I was leader for one person very obviously plagiarized his entire contribution. Since we would not be penalized for the work of our other group members I let it go in and let the issue sort itself out. Pretty sure he got a zero and a warning for academic dishonesty. I found the whole thing amusing. Why snitch when it's way funnier to watch people shoot themselves in the foot?

@turambar: Well at least you have something interesting to add, unlike all of the gangster wannabes in this thread.

Some real hard-ass motherfuckers in this thread. I wish I could be as gangster as you guys!

Being a teacher myself (albeit a rather inexperienced one relatively speaking) both helps and skews my point of view.

I've seen people cheat and I've done it myself as well. It's not a huge deal in Poland.

If I had ever seen anyone cheating, I would report them in a heartbeat unless it was someone I cared about.

For those who say it doesn't hurt anyone, what about those who get into competitive programs instead of a person who works hard? or a student who gets copied without his or her knowledge getting in trouble because the professor thinks they were helping them? or even the people who hire them thinking they are better than they really are? It seems at the very least a waste of time for the person cheating.

Honestly I don't really care when I see it, when they get past undergraduate classes they're gonna be screwed from all their bad study habits, so they'll be getting whats coming I'm sure. My history class I'm pretty sure 90% of the class just used their phones on the last test we took, because the professor doesn't even glance around the room, so he really doesn't seem to care. I don't personally cheat, even when it would be easy as that class, because I know that relying on that is just gonna fuck you over later on when there aren't anymore multiple choice tests.

I smell a fucking rat!

I am not bringing forth any idea I am just stating a plain fact. Your grades in school have little to no impact on your actual real world knowledge and ability. Legislators need to get the F out of schools to begin with, government regulation is the reason our education system is fairly weak. We make kids take 12 years of "American History" and study match subjects like Trigonometry that pretty much have almost no chance in hell of being any use to them ever again. Grades 1-12 is just "get kids out of the house and off the streets" as far as I can tell. College you hopefully are learning something that might help you at your ideal career or at least prepare you for the real world.

Also I couldn't care less about the commercial world, but you have to be off your rocker if you think students ready to actual join the workforce and be effective right out the game doesn't make their chances at a successful life considerably better. School should be about the student, not the corporate, government, or parents concerns.

Alright, a few things. 'We make kids take 12 years of "American History"' is a factually inaccurate thing. It depends on the district, but students are generally required to take anywhere between 2 to 4 semesters of US history from between middle and high school. Trig is only a small portion of a year in high school mathematics. In addition, undergraduate degrees, regardless of the field, generally have their own breadth requirement as well, just as public school students are given the option of taking a variety of elective courses outside of the reqs.

Your comment on the role of legislators is rather reductive as well. It wasn't too long ago where a heavy emphasis on math and science, urged on by initiatives by both federal and state government in the 50s and 60s that created some of the highest achieving generations in those fields. The current focus on standardized testing, common core, etc, is certainly controversial. However, it is rather short viewed to claim "government is why our education system is weak" in absolute terms.

Additionally, most educators would agree with you: school should be about the student. However, what do you think that statement actually means? Should students be allowed to explore their interests, being given an opportunity to explore a variety of disciplines, or should they be set on a more narrow path designed to train them in marketable skills? Your emphasis of students achieving economic success once out of school implies your preference for the latter. Thus, one must ask: who gets to decide what a student's curriculum should be?

Finally, one must again ask what is the purpose of schooling? You state that it is to "prepare you for the real world", but what does that encompass? Is it simply economic gains, the ability to find a job and make a living? What about the ability to function as a citizen in a democratic society? What about effective understanding of current broad global issues and analytical skills to be able to understand future ones, as such issues often have very real at home consequences? How would they fit in with your idea of schooling? Should they? This isn't a rhetorical question, but a sincere one. These are, after all, questions educators have been debating with each other for well over a century.

No I quite clearly said school current goal is to "get kids out of the house and off the street", I am not sure educating them for anything enters into it much anymore. You talk like you can "teach" someone an appreciation for global politics or fine arts, you can't. A person who doesn't like music is not going to suddenly start appreciating Mozart because you shoved it down their throat. No one is going to dispute the fact that every person needs certain education regardless. Everyone should have a understanding of algebra, the basics off the sciences, history, and maybe even a little bit of the arts. But when a kid goes through 12 years of school, gets to college, can ace an SAT, but doesn't know how to balance a check book? What did that education really accomplish?

If it were my way 1-8 (maybe 7) would be cramming all that "need to know" into a kid and 9-12 would be "here is the course book, what do YOU want to learn?". The courses wouldn't be Advanced Trig though, it would be things like computer repair, mechanics such as how to build a car engine, accounting, graphic design, engineering, computer programming, IT, buisness management, hell why not a home economics class? You have to cook for yourself sooner or later. No matter what it would be "something" that the student would choose, might legitimately help them in their life, and god forbid maybe give them a little real world experience.

"No I quite clearly said school current goal is to "get kids out of the house and off the street", I am not sure educating them for anything enters into it much anymore." Let it be suffice to say that you would be entirely wrong with that assumption, though I'm sure some students do in fact wished those in that worked in the education system would treat it more like day care than a school building. The question has always been "what and how to teach students."

You are right, you can't teach someone enthusiasm by shoving it down their throats. That stifles any desire to learn more than anything else. However, if you're claiming there is no way to make a student enthusiastic in a subject they were previously rather ambivalent to, that is entirely inaccurate, if I may put it bluntly. It is something I have experienced first hand, on both sides of it.

Your comment on "being able to ace an SAT" is rather key. Teaching to the test is definitely something teachers in general are urged to do, whether they be SATs and ACTs, or the increasing number of district, state-wide, and nation-wide standardized exams. It is also something all teachers will tell you that they attempt to resist as best as they can. While you may ask "what did you really learn in school if you can't balance a check book", how would you answer the charge "what did you really learn in school if you lack the social skills"? If a governmental system requires informed citizens to make decisions as the US does, would you not say the ability to be informed, and have the skills to make sound decisions would be something quite deserving of the title "what did you learn in school if you didn't learn this?" Many other things can and will contend for this.

Your idea of "cramming everything that is need to know in from grades 1-8" is certainly something to consider, though as usual, what actually qualifies as something necessary is going to be up for debate. Further more, maintaining student enthusiasm and a desire to learn after 8 years of nothing but what I guess can be called core competency courses, and then being asked "well what do you want to learn" is not something that will simply roll out as smoothly as you may thing it would. Your desire is to offer enough technical courses that a student will always find something of interest, but what if I was to tell you that is already happening in years 9-12? All public high schools in the US offer elective courses including quite literally everything you have listed up there. Of course, not all schools offer everything, as resources are constantly stretched. One also have to consider how exactly do you maintain a usage and understanding of the core competency skills your plan requires in grades 1-8, so that those pursuing higher education is not facing a deficit of the basics for 4 years.

With all the above said, some key criticisms of your plan is that it strongly mirrors an apprenticeship system, and I feel that,even if everything works just as planned and all students find something they want to do and pursues it, they are stuck in a field with little flexibility, and skills to move to something outside it. We've seen the consequences of this: skills that have become rather obsolete, and the worker him or herself unable to find another line of work as they lack any other skills. The current educational system already faces trouble with this reality. I feel that the plan you propose only worsens this ossification.

I like how the question is written with a clear bias, and that once he figured out people didn't see things the exact way he does, the asker started calling people names. Stay classy, y'all.

Cheating is an art and I was a master at it.

Going with the poll results, it's good to see most of us aren't snitches.

@turambar: @karkarov:

Where does "encourage the student to have a rich, personally fulfilling (inner) life" factor into this, if at all? Seems like the focus is more on simply living or functioning or something. Can't quite get at what I want to say.

Awww man I was the guy that let people cheat off me. And I did it for a lot of reasons that mainly benefited myself.

Basically, at my secondary school, science classes were not split up by academic level (for reasons I'm not quite sure of, as every other class was). What this meant was that smarter students (like myself) were put in class with the not so smart (read: rough as hell) students. Due to an unfortunate roll of the dice, I found myself as one of the only smart ones in a class full of some of the roughest kids in school.

So yeah, I let them cheat off me all the God damn time. Firstly, it meant I didn't get the shit kicked out of me for being lame, which is always a bonus. Secondly, this meant I was never even bothered by the rough kids ever, not just science class... In letting them copy my work, I became pretty good friends with them; we always had a good laugh and a joke and I was pushing their grades up, so if anyone ever caused me trouble at school, I had all these guys who would vouch for me and I became known as a pretty cool guy for it. It was great.

A prime example of this was one dark night when I was walking home with a friend and out of nowhere, 8 guys surrounded me and demanded my phone and money...until one of the guys realised who I was, turned to the other guys and says how cool I am and how much of a laugh we have in science. The whole group became friendly with me all of a sudden and they even offered me one of the cheap beers they'd somehow got hold of (these were ROUGH kids).

There was then a second benefit I never saw coming. In me pushing all these kid's grades up, the classes started taking this into account and moving us onto the more advanced stuff. The better the rest of the class did, the better my grade was getting as a result, due to the higher level stuff being dished our way. In helping these guys in class, I ended up with two A's in science in the final tests...

Of course the guys I was helping failed them tests miserably (they didn't know any of this stuff) but who gives a fuck, they were essentially bullies anyway!

tl;dr: In allowing people to blatantly cheat off me, school became a much easier place.

PS: The teachers knew they were copying from me but I'm pretty sure they were happy for my grades to go up and for them to be teaching more of the advanced stuff in the process.

The problem there is there is that the idea of personal fulfillment differs widely from student to student, and in addition, is something personal enough that students are not generally willing to share with someone they view as a social stranger, their teacher. It is something that falls much more in the purview of guidance counselors than within the classroom itself.

@turambar:

I guess that requires a completely different outlook on the education system, then. *tries to think of the best tool to overthrow systems and ideologies*................*stresses that this probably shouldn't be illegal or anything*

@samstrife: I don't know where exactly you went to school, but most public schools in the US do not separate up the student body based on any academic placement for required courses aside from things like A.P. classes. There is in fact a desire to make sure that where possible, classes are not somehow stratified into "smart kids" and "rough kids".

I caught myself cheating quite a bit

When I say separated between rough and smart kids, I mean smart kids and kids whose presence in class usually caused problems. There are always "remedial" classes so to speak where students who show no desire to learn or help others learn were sent to...not so the case when it came to science.

I'm talking kids who'd already been suspended for attacking teachers and what not.

In 7th grade a cute girl who 'developed' early used to cheat off my spelling test, and I helped her by not making it all the hard to see my test. We never got caught. In eighth grade we were playing soccer and she ran into me, girls are bigger then boys in 8th grade, she steamrolled me ending up on top of me pressing those big old jugs on me...we were even in my mind.

It doesn't just apply to cops though it applies to other professions and usually when there is a conflict it has to be resolved internally or discretely without having to inform higher-ups so the situation doesn't escalate, unless the offense was particularly damning.