Game of Thrones - Season 8 - Game Over

@barrock: I hear ya. I’m let down by this season in a way I really didn’t think possible. At the same time, I don’t understand the do-over requests.

Sometimes things you love turn to shit...it happens. I can’t just forget this horse shit they spoon-fed me this season. The damage is done. All I can do is hope the final episode doesn’t feature Poochy flying off to his home planet or some shit...

@nutter: What happened this season was a complete letdown. I actually feel worse for the actors. I've seen the actors for Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Varys, and others criticize or say a negative remark about this season. They know it sucks too and they put years of their lives into it. Dany and Jamie deserved better endings, Jon and Bran deserved to actually do something this season instead of just standing around.

rly looking forward to the d&d star warz *crosses fingers* maybe it will have cool dragons

Yeah? Think back to the when Dany sequestered her dragons (all of them) when one of them might have eaten a random villager. Or when her Dothraki were starving to death outside Qarth but she didn't want to attack. Does this still make sense? Or after going out of her way free slaves across essos. There's no character development that led to this random change of heart, nobody in her army is even confused when she starts burning the entire city, they're all for it. For every time they foreshadow something that you could maybe see as a thread toward this, there's multiple episodes of Meesa stomping all over those threads with the actual character that was developed.

@north6: I'll start by again saying that I agree with people that say even if the Dany turn was foreshadowed or nudged towards, they kind of botched the flip by making it such a sudden thing.

One thing that I will say though, somewhat in reference to what you're talking about...I do think that the writers were hoping to convey this idea that Dany trusted and cared for the people across the Narrow Sea because she basically grew up there. I don't think she ever cared about the people of Westeros, outside of being told she should and that she needed to go there for revenge. I think that the second they didn't overthrow Cersei and declare Dany queen it was meant to be implied that she kind of said "Yeah, well fuck you too" and didn't give a shit about them at that point. Now, I'll reiterate, I don't think that they did this well by any means, but I get the impression that that was something that they wanted to viewer to know. Essentially, these people (Westeros...ians? Westerosans? Whatever.) are different from the people she saved before.

This seems a bit dramatic. It's not like they did season 8 for free. They all were paid very well and will be remembered fondly for their roles. I get that you despise this season, but a lot of people think it's fine, and a lot of people actually love it. So I don't think you need to worry for the well-being of the actors, as if they're sitting at home drinking heavily because the finale of their career-making show isn't liked by a lot of people.

@north6: I might be remembering incorrectly,but I think your examples are somewhat inaccurate. First, Dany only chains two of her dragons; the other, the one that definitely did burn a villager's child, is kind of just missing. The fact that one of her kids is basically a full-blown murderer is already a bad sign. Second, I don't think she was against attacking Qarth, and if she was it was because she wouldn't have succeeded. In fact, as soon as she's turned away, she threatens to burn the city as soon as she's in power. Third, she never went out of her way to free slaves; all of the slaves she freed were of service to her in some way, whether as soldiers or as people she knew would idolize her. Also, all of the freed slaves belonged to cities she was already trying to conquer.

I've written a huge amount of words on the subject, but my points can be summarized by the fact that pretty much nothing Danaerys does is done for purely selfless reasons, all of her methods involve death and destruction, and the way people have idolized and deified her throughout the show falls closely in line with a cult. She's only seen as a good person because the people she has burned to death, crucified, and fed to dragons are shitty people; the moment she steps onto Westeros, she demands Jon Snow bend the knee after flaunting her seventeen titles at him, and burn two soldiers to death just because they refused to bow to her.

Daenerys is a hero by circumstance, not by character.

So, I think I can explain season 8 in such a way that everyone can come together and enjoy it.

Nano-machines.

@sethmode: Really, they didn't work for free... that's great to hear, I thought they were a bunch of starving artists. I'm not losing any sleep over the show or for the actors, I was just saying it sucks to invest nearly a decade into a character and have the writers screw up the landing. Some actors like Varys have said as much.

I'm sure some people like this season, but I doubt most do and even if they did that has nothing to do with me. Being on a popular show doesn't mean much how many actors from shows like Lost, BSG, Buffy, Walking Dead, Sopranos, etc went on to be big stars afterwards? None really. I doubt anyone in this cast will be a part of something so big and beloved again.

@deathstriker: Okay, I'm not sure why you're a little hostile in the opening of your response. I just didn't really understand the focus on saying you feel bad for the actors. It's their job, they got paid, and even the people that hate this season aren't going to hate it because Varys did poorly in it. That's all I was saying. Anyone is allowed to be dissatisfied, I just think feeling bad for the actors because a long successful show is coming to a controversial end is, like I said, a little dramatic and maybe the worst reason to levy criticism at the show.

And I'm not saying that GoT will be a launching pad for them, I'm saying it already made their careers. The main cast will likely never have to work again, and it's not like supporting actors won't be able to find work. They will likely not be on anything as popular as GoT after this, but that doesn't mean GoT didn't make their careers.

Finally, my point about people liking the season wasn't trying to convince you of anything, it was merely to point out that the actors aren't going have their careers destroyed by it or anything like that. Again, I just don't think there is much there to "feel bad" about, certainly not enough to warrant it as a criticism for the entire season. *shrug*

@sethmode: I think you're taking "I feel bad for the actors" too literally and seriously. It's not like I'm crying for them lol. Yes, they were paid - yes, they're famous now, but they're still artists and bad writing hurt the character's arc that they put around a decade of work into. That kinda sucks, if you don't care or agree then okay.

@north6: You caught I said her entire character is built on dichotomy right? I didnt point out the good things because I intended to immediately convey that she is a contrast between good an evil in one character so that I wouldn't have to bullet point every story beat of the show. She is a coin with two heads and we didnt know what the result is, but we have seen the possibility of both sides multiple times.

Along with this just like doing bad things in your past doesn't mean you'll be bad forever, taking good actions in your past doesnt mean you'll never reach a point in your life where you'll do something bad. Especially given the background of the family mental history and the whole coin narrative they tried to hammer home. Life and stories aren't a video game where if she chooses paragon a few times it means shes going to do only good forever. Saying things like she freed the slaves so she would never do something this bad is ignoring that she is supposed to represent a very complex character that is more that just a one dimensional savior. Despite showing kindness and mercy to people she favors, she absolutely has selfish motivations that extend beyond the role of being a selfless savior of the people. Throughout the entire show she has good intentions with some of the most cruel tendancies. Contrast.

For the slave example. She frees the slaves, sure. But in the process she mass murders (through torture) people just for their social status, feeds a representative of the masters (of may or may not have been involved with the sons, she never knew) to her dragon, and then after thwarting the last attack she leaves the destabalized mess to a mercenary leader and his group for the sake of her birthright. Who knows what the hell happened to society there after that, but my guess is it's not all happy endings over there. If all of that is worth ignoring because she fought for the underdogs and took action when her dragons were killing her subjects, okay, but she is a larger picture than just "Meesa".

Like I said, though, they rushed the flip and didnt earn it. So just to note: please dont confuse me saying that the end makes sense for Dany as saying that it was done well.

It bums me out how God awful this season has been. There was basically one good episode and each episode after has been worse than the one before. I expect next week's to continue that trend, especially if those leaks are true. The only good to come out of this mess is the memes.

@mezza: Seems like people always bring up the slave masters or the Tarlys when talking about how evil Dany has been in the past. The slave masters had it coming, I actually feel that way in real life too when looking at Haiti or other real life slave rebellions. I'm not going to feel bad for slave owners. The Tarlys were idiots who chose to die and possibly end their family line. Them being Targaryn loyalists during the last war makes it feel a little bit siller too. I think we're supposed to believe Essos is okay, that was when the show started to rush, so it zoomed out of there.

Dany burnt down her own city last episode, since she was in control once the bells started ringing. People seeing the dragon in action and them killing the golden company in minutes had already created enough fear. It feels like manufactured drama and a twist for the sake of subversion. Most people here have said turning her bad would be okay, but the show butchered the execution of it by doing it too quickly and not having enough clear cut examples of her being evil in the past.

Please be good. Please be good. Please be good.

Kinda crazy that we're here. At the proverbial end of the road. I think whatever way this thing ends, it doesn't take away from the awesome moments of this series and the fact that a semi-fantasy/medieval sorta show was on HBO.. and a huge hit.

Probably won't get anything else like this anytime soon. Maybe if someone decided to do a high budget Tolkien based series (wasn't Amazon trying to lock that down?) but even then, to get this perfect array of actors and such would be next to impossible.

It's been fun dudes and dudets.

Is this a joke? How did they screw this up this bad?

Eh I guess it's both predictable but also I guess I'm alright with it? Not really sure a different way it could've gone, at least in the last episode. The results seemed.. logical? Besides the Bran part maybe? But that seemed like their surprise twist but.. also it makes sense sorta.. but.. Whatever

Now, if you wanted to make major changes to the results here.. you'd have to toss the whole last season I guess.

@seikenfreak: That's exactly how I feel. It didn't excite me, but I don't know what would have improved it. At the end of the day, all these pieces needed to settle into place, and it was going to take up most of the episode.

I feel like there is some irony in both the fact that the throne is destroyed but the new King doesn't need it/can't use it anyway.. And Danys goal of breaking the wheel and the new King rolls around on wheels.

This show fell off a cliff. This could've been a good finale... if there were more episodes to build it up and they didn't try so hard subvert things.

Bran being king is stupid asf... that came out of nowhere. In all the previous episodes since his transformation he's barely been able to have a conversation until now. Bran hasn't been a real character for a while now, I have no idea what his intentions are, so Tyrion thinking he knows him after one conversation with him doesn't make sense. "We all follow stories" was cringe and doesn't really make sense either.

The size of Dany's army was ridiculous, her having so many men left when there were barely humans alive in The Long Night felt random as hell. They started a medieval Illuminati, that's not really breaking the wheel.

Jon getting a life sentence just because Greyworm is pissed at him was silly. It seems like the writers just wanted an excuse for him to go north. I'm glad he's ditching the wall and going with his real people, but it feels like he got screwed by the writers because he didn't do anything this season until this episode and there's no reason for them to keep their deal Greyworm since he's going an island thousands of miles away. Him still being a "Snow" is another jab. Seems like Jon should've ruled, but they thought that was too obvious. Why make him a Targaryn if his birthright of ruling wasn't going to play a major factor. No one mentioned his name in the end. Him being a Targaryn really only allowed him to ride a dragon, not much else.

I don't see why the north deserves to be free or Sansa should be queen - I've always thought she was annoying. Tyrion keeping the deal with Bronn is another deal that didn't need to be kept, much like the Greyworm deal.

Dany being turned into and written off like some simple villain is pretty weird. This season kinda ruins or hurts Dany, Jamie, Tyrion, and Jon to me. I can't imagine rewatching this series. The Dany scenes will feel pointless. Bran being king wasn't developed at all. This was my favorite show behind Breaking Bad, but now I think The Wire, Mr. Robot, Deadwood, and others are better.

I didn't get why the dragon decided to burn the iron throne and not Jon. I was also really expecting Grey Worm and Jon to fight and one of them to die.

I kinda took it as Drogon knowing that even though Jon killed Dany, it was really Dany's obsession with becoming Queen that was her undoing, and burning the throne was symbolically his vengeance?

Either way, I didn't hate episode 5 nearly as much as the internet seemed to but...yeah, can't say I really liked any of the resolutions in finale. Jon's especially was just dumb.

I feel like there's a lot of fun things about Bran as the choice in a complete narrative vacuum, but considering the whole thing as a living story it's such a bad idea.

I think Bran is kind of a "Tetris is the best video game" pick for king. Anyone else would cause a war, or just be laughed at like poor Edmure. People would kill Sansa just because she's a woman. Bran feels like the only safe compromise pick, which is senisble but also unsatisfying.

I thought the episode was largely successful at digging out of some of the shit that mired this season.

Tyrion had some great moments, and also explained the whole “Dany’s kinda always been like this” thing as where the show was going (which should resolve a few pages of debate, to some extent).

Bran being...not quite human? I don’t know what he is, but he’s an old choice to rule in a season and episode that spent a lot of time marrying reason and love as the key ingredients in a ruler.

The dragon bit was good and apt.

The ending went full Lord of the Rings and marks the first time I’ve dozed off watching Game of Thrones.

All-in-all, an odd ending, but one that kinda tied things together.

Congrats to Sam at least someone will have managed to finish writing a Song of Ice and Fire.

This thread has a lot of good posts and equally good snark but this is the best one.

heh. finale pretty much maintains the tone of the final season.

which is to say- the producers wrote checks the writers couldn't cash. good moments with none of the desired emotional payoff.

Who would be mad at Jon besides the Unsullied? The north would be happy, it's his birthright, he's an accomplished leader, and so on.

Also, the whole “we wrote A Song of Ice and Fire” bit felt WAY too close to Lord of the Rings’ “There and Back Again.”

I dug it. If anything I think all the subversion throughout the rest of the series and even final season served to play and curb expectations for the finale. As someone who has been absolutely Team Ned/Team Stark early in the show it actually feels kind of good that the Stark children surviving were the only ones that got the big ending moments? Like yes the side characters were featured, but how telling was the final shots juxtaposition with Bran, Arya, Sansa and Jon? Whether we all agreed with the pacing and writing of the season or not, every other character was hardly a paragon in this universe and absolutely deserved a harsh end.

I think the payoff for this finale comes not from the conflicted Season 8 but from all those seasons spent with Bran, Arya, Jon and Sansa because they clearly leaned heavy into the idea that those with the most valor/honor, or really those who take the most shit....survive and flourish in the end. I think the Dany plotline was rushed in the episode but I'm not going to lie I wasn't expecting Drogon to straight burn the Throne. That was a good moment, and ultimately I think served to...give purpose to her death? In a way. Anyway it was a way better finale than it had any right to be given the issues the rest of the season faced. It might be one of the better Thrones ep all time for me just for all that Stark payoff. Sorry folks I get it if your not team Stark but man oh man it feels like a long wait.

Meh, it's a serviceable ending if you don't think too much about it, but if you do it's a complete abandonment of the core concept of the show. I get that they wanted to actually end the "game of thrones", but it's just completely naive to think it would work out this way. The juxtaposition of Tywins arc and eventual "Any man who says I am the king is no true king" line from season 3 and this ending of Bran being king because... and literally saying "Yes I can, I am king" illustrates how much the writing in the show has devolved.

And then they even sneak in the separation of the North as if that's not what actually would've happened to the realm. There are seven Kingdoms, they are functional kingdoms. They don't need a united realm, and the person put in charge of this unnecessary realm has no actual power or influence to support his rule. What incentive did any of them have to not just go home and rule their own kingdom ?

The episode itself was extremely well made though, and it would've been an awesome send-off to the show if the writing had been on point. But it sorta just felt like a comedian making a really great Trump joke at an RNC event.

Everyone's going to go over how messed up pretty much every character and plot thread is, so I'll just leave it at a lot of shit not working. But it could have been worse, and if you accept the previous episodes exist, it wraps them up about as well as you could. Jon's ending is kind of nice, at least, even if he was supremely frustrating all episode.

Something that bugged me a lot is the pacing, and specifically the comedy beats that feel so out of place I was starting to get whiplash. There was some corny stuff too like the book and the dragon burning the throne that I wasn't a fan of.

Minor note, Greyworm's dagger has been bugging me all season. They use a flexible rubber prop dagger like 90% of the time, and the place they have it sheathed on his body makes it bend significantly with the contour of his torso, so it's always obviously fake. It's the ultimate nitpick and ultimately doesn't matter at all, but it stood out to me more than the Starbucks cup because it's something that happens constantly over many episodes, you think somebody would have noticed and fixed it later. Again though, it's the most minor and meaningless of criticisms.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, everyone calling him Bran the Broken felt unintentionally mean spirited. He's got a lot going on and way better options for titles than that.

Ah yes, a king-for-life that only the most powerful nobles get to choose. I get that going from the system they have now to what Sam suggested would be unlikely, but why the hell didn't Tyrion at least suggest a term limit? Bran is like 16 or 17. He could live for another 60 years.

Good on Sansa for declaring an independent North, though. Finally got what she deserved.

I felt nothing watching that. I'm happy the last dragon didn't get knifed by Arya or something. It all felt way too neat for me. Dany being alone didn't surprise me, it was the easiest way for the writers to kill her off so of course that's what they did. I wonder if anyone at Disney is rethinking giving them Star Wars. I don't think I'll ever rewatch the series, which I wasn't expecting even after the last couple of episodes. Just too trite for me. I guess Bran wanting to find Drogon could mean something if you wanted it to. I'm kinda sad that I'm coming away from this show mostly feeling "Meh." I guess I was still hopeful the ending would be OK.

what a joke. Glad its over. Over the last episodes Bran effectively positioned himself as some sort of Dr Manhattan like being who isnt really all that interested in the affairs of humanity. Now hes King. Making Jon take the Black also makes little to no sense since there is no need for a Nightswatch anymore. Night King is Dead and he already made peace with the freefolk. Why would anyone in the freefolk want to go back beyond the wall? their whole thing was that they wanted a better life(mostly better weather conditions). Just because theres no more wights doesn't make the land beyond the wall anymore desirable. Grey Worm should hang. hes just as big of a war criminal as Dany.

Man those first seasons were great.

Edit: At least the North is independent.

@cageysquid: I saw someone mention that rewatching the series, or even someone watching it fresh but not having to wait weeks and months and years between episodes and seasons, is going to be quite a different experience from watching it as it airs, and it's going to make this season seem even worse. All sorts of little (or big, in the case of Dorne) things that get ignored or dropped over the years are going to stand out so much more when you don't have quite so long to forget about the specifics, or in the case of rewatching, when you realize that certain things are just a waste of time even though the ending still ends up being so rushed.

@brackstone: Yeah, I read an article from the NYT from someone who had binged the whole series in a couple weeks. He basically said it was real easy to tell when the show writers had to start figuring stuff out on their own. He also noted that not watching for years lessened the sting of the drop in quality, so lucky him. So much amounted to nothing. I'm just trying not to think too critically about it, I mean Grey Worm would have just killed Jon, no question. That's why they did a time skip, they couldn't write any plausible reason Jon would walk out of that room alive. I hope the books get finished, even if the ending is the same it will be better earned (maybe, who knows, right?).

Imagine a world where there's an entire season of evil Dani. Instead she gets gutted after a Gone with the Wind moment.

Feels like they are setting up Aria and Jon spin offs.

Why is there a nights watch with no white walkers?

How many people are there to rule over in King's Landing now?

@barrock: I mean effectively there was a Night's Watch for an extremely long time with no White Walkers.

True, but that was when the Wildlings were hostile.

Lol I again liked this episode. Never been on the polar opposite so hard before like this. Interesting. Anyways, thanks for the thread.

Yeah, Amazon is making a Lord of the Rings tv show set in the second age. It's being filmed in Scotland and is going to be the most expensive show ever produced.

@jonny_anonymous:

Also Wheel of Time, Dark Tower, Kingkiller Chronicles, Witcher, His Dark Materials, Narnia and more on the way. Curious if any of these catch on like GoT.

@ares42: I joked to my wife, while watching the voting in of King Bran, that the other Lords should have followed-up Sansa’s “yo, but the north is free” line with “uh, can I recast my vote as ‘aye, but we’re free and independent,’ too?”

It would have felt truer to an arc to abandon the (now symbolically melted) Iron Throne in favor of independence for the kingdoms.

@barrock: I love Wheel of Time but the task of editing that down into something that could even possibly work as a show is not something I wish upon anyone.

In regards to the petition, I hope HBO comes out and announces a new, revamped Season & in 2 years they release the same 6 episodes, unchanged and just watch the internet explode.

Side bar: I loved the subtleness of Dany never actually sitting on the Iron Throne. She literally touched it, but never actually sat on it.

@deathstriker: The Unsullied were already mad that he was even alive--making him king would have started more wars, which Tyrion wanted to avoid. Plus, Jon would have made a terrible king--he's too naiive and loyal, so much so that he almost let Dany slide after she burned down King's Landing.