@jarmahead said:
$15 wage is fucking stupid, IMO. Especially in Washington, it's fine how it is. $10 seems reasonable, and that is pretty much what you get in Washington at entry level jobs. The issue is that there aren't enough better paying jobs, not that people don't make enough for entry level jobs. I think entry level deserves entry level. No way in hell is my job underpaying me by 50% of what they currently pay me. And I doubt raising the minimum wage that much will actually help. A small increase would seem more reasonable.
The real issue is that way too many people are working at shitholes like McDonalds that needs to be blown off the face of the earth, while skilled labor ends up in countries like China.
@splodge said:
When a couple with two children are working four jobs between them just to keep themselves steady but still under the poverty line, there is obviously a huge problem.
And that problem would be that they are trying to raise children on an entry level, minimum wage job.
Minimum wage is for students, for people starting careers, not for people trying to raise a family. And, 4 jobs would be part time, so you would basically be talking about 2-3 jobs total. We need a better range of middle class jobs, not better minimum wage. We need people who are not only making more, but doing more, not people who do very little to be paid better. Entry level jobs suck, but that's the fucking world. Starting to play guitar, you'll sound like ass. But keep going and you'll eventually be pretty good at it. Really work your ass on it, you can be awesome at it and make a bundle. We just need an economy that encourages the same to be more achievable.
You know minimum wage isn't just for students right? And when anyone makes a point of it, it sounds like privilege.
In fact most of the jobs that have returned since the recession have been poorly paid service work? You do realise whole swathes of "good" middle class jobs are pretty much gone now? People who worked hard to gain skills no longer have a use for those skills. Those good jobs? They are not coming back. So stop with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" bollocks.
People work really hard and sometimes get paid very little, some people have useful skills one day and that can mean shit the next. And trying to be more competitive with each other just feeds into the system that is slowly destroying us.
http://time.com/79061/report-low-pay-jobs-replace-high-pay-jobs-since-recession/
You're agreeing with me. The problem isn't how much minimum wage jobs pay, it's how many minimum jobs there are. I believe the solution is to directly counter that trend, not try to patch it up by throwing more money at less worthy jobs.
I'm not saying that people who make minimum wage only deserve that. I'm saying that we as a country need to work towards a solution that involves jobs, not wages. We need to start more small businesses that can hire locals, we need to take a bat to the knees of the executives of every outsourcing piece of shit American company we can find, and we need to produce more middle class jobs. The reasons for minimum wage, entry level jobs flooding the country are all pretty useless. It's the popularity of shitty Chinese products, awful junk food, etc etc etc.
Sorry, but minimum wage jobs deserve minimum wage. I think there needs to be adjustment for inflation (or preferably a solution to that particular problem, but it remains to be seen if there IS a solution), but it's not a 5-8 dollar increase.
I am very happy with how much I make at minimum wage. Even at barely over minimum wage, even living in a large city, I could actually afford to live downtown if I pursued some opportunities. Sure, if I had a family I'd be fucked. But I wouldn't start a family until I could all but ensure I could support it, instead of being another asshole starting a family they can't afford and then complaining when they can't. Hell, it might actually help the economy to stop reproducing when it isn't appropriate. But that's another argument for another time.
I can't think of many entry level jobs that are worth more than minimum wage, at least here in Seattle/Washington. I'm an uneducated, relatively unskilled and inexperienced worker. The issue is that there are too many people who don't fit into that same demographic working in entry level positions. And that is where I see the problem: too many people are not in a job tier that is appropriate to their place in that demographic spectrum.
I guess what I have to say is: Stop with the "we're never getting our jobs back" crap. We just need people to start businesses around America, hiring locals, selling to locals. We need consumers supporting local businesses, investing in America's economy instead of striving for the bottom line.
Also, America is full of lazy fucks. Skews statistics a lot. Sorry, but it's true. I'm 20 and I'm about to take a part time job on top of a job that has me working full time hours, and I'm doing that to get where I want. I'm pushing myself to expand my horizons by making efforts to make myself valuable to my company. Most employees I've every interacted with are, at most, trying to stay at "acceptable." And plenty just rely on being JUST good enough not to get fired, because management is super relaxed when it comes to termination, at least around here.
I haven't graduated high school, don't have a GED, don't have much experience, and even have a minor assault charge on my record. Yet I'm making enough to enjoy myself. My sympathy for the guy who has never made more than $12 an hour yet has a third kid on the way? Pretty fucking limited. Especially as someone who grew up in a household that was much much closer to poverty than it should have been given the potential of the breadwinner. Children are not an excuse to need more money, they are a huge responsibility. Maybe people should man the fuck up before taking that sort of responsibility on. Too many high schoolers and college kids knocking each other up, too many 27 year olds who dress like they belong in the same demographic knocking each other up.
I am of the opinion that babying people isn't going to make anyone better, and it's not going to to anything for our country. And it is my philosophy that our country deserves our efforts to strengthen it's people and economy and culture, as it has blessed us compared to the war torn, third world, poverty stricken alternatives.
Sadly, American's are happy to laze about, pissing away this country's potential. But those who work their asses off and earn the rewards that capitalism offers, often get exactly that. Everyone I know who has ACTUALLY pushed for a better life, not just "worked hard" (read: worked long hours without ever actually striving for excellence) managed to achieve the American Dream.
A lack of ambition and drive is killing America's economy. And that includes all of the fat cats who are on the top, I'm not just shitting on the lower classes (of which I've been a part of all my life).
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