In Other News: KickStarters Sometimes Fail

About 18 months ago I backed a KickStarter for a camera drone. It wasn't cheap, but it was that expensive really, £ 215 or there about. I've paid more for things, and to be honest I know what KS is and isn't. I've really had very good sucess with KS, probably better sucess than most people even on big projects I have backed. Then again I back projects that are 'possible' in most cases. I think I have only backed three games ever which is probably why my sucess rate is so high...srsly don't back games much guys.

Anyway, I was just informed that teh drone after a year of delays won't be coming. The company is filing for Bankruptcy in the UK and the assesnsta re going to creditors. You might think I'd be angry, but I'm really not at all. I'm sad, but that's about it. The project seemed like fun and not getting it is sad. An autonomous drone that you could programs for waypoints and take pictures using a cellphone woudl have been neat. A neat 'executively priced' toy that most of us would have tossed in a closet within six months. Nevertheless, I know what KS is and what it isn't what is covered with backing and what isn't. So, this project took-in a bunch of money and the project took too long, they burned through the money over technical issues without shipping, and now the LLC is folding. It [meaning shit] happens.

Was there fraud? Well, that is a question that might need an answer, but my guess was poor management. A small drone with a brain and camera is tricky design to make work in a small package. Mismanagement and a lack of experiences? Sure, that is probably the case too; but I doubt there was fraud. My guess is there are some real creditors in Europe on the manufacturing/parts side of the deal; and they want to get paid and the EU will make sure this liquidation happens.

I'm willing to give the group behind the KS the benefit of the doubt, or at least until someone in authority can prove otherwise. Of course, that is not what the rest of the backers are doing at all. The typical anger and lashing out at a bad situation with petty threats and hot words is occurring. There is a lot of "We'll sue!" and "Fraud!" and "Wait till I tell my daddy!!!!" going around on the KS comment section. A few people are even "warning' KickStarter this won't be the end of this story. But of course - it is the end of this story - because KickStarters fail all the time. It has been a week with backers making threats, yet only a few really tiny news stories - mere blurbs - have appeared anywhere of note. The money is gone. The drone won't come. The liquidation of assets will not benefit to anyone who backed the project. END OF STORY.

I feel bad for some of that backers, but that feeling is quickly evaporating as the 'internet tough guy' rhetoric accumulates from some backers with more anger than brain cells. I understand being annoyed or sad, but I just don't see the point of lashing out verbally. I don't see how idle threats and screaming accomplishes anything, or puts our plight of a failed KS in a good light.

Maybe, being older, I know from experience that the old adage is true; "Never give an order you know will be ignored." If you say, 'do this or else', you damn well better be ready and willing and able to do the, 'or else'.

@monkeyking1969:

That's not a small chunk of change. I think you're allowed a little anger when something goes tits up like that....not nutball angry but I'd at least look into the companies dealings. Hell if they kept updating and then advised everyone of the collapse it points to them not being assholes but who really knows?

I'm still waiting on a lamp that was supposed to come out last September (yes 2014) but they have kept me in the loop and have been sending us pics of the new prototypes so I don't really care, it'll come when it comes, or it wont.

I'm also waiting on a book that was supposed to be out in April but again they are keeping me updated so who cares when it shows up. (they just sent pics of the mock up all bound and it looks sweet).

I think with a lot of Kickstarted projects, many amateurs underestimate the difficulties of manufacturing and distribution. Just having a prototype and knowing how much it costs for a few individual samples isn't enough to predict the vast costs and inefficiencies of manufacturing and distributing on a mass scale.

Dave Lang mentioned that the Card Against Humanity guys were going to make a distribution platform for indie-projects and that seems like an interesting development. Max and his team really know how to handle that stuff, and it could make a lot of Kickstarted projects easier.

@ninnanuam Like I said disappointed and sad, but not to the point of flipping out. If there is a legitimate demonstration of malfeasance then I will see what financial remedies can be applied. But, I'm not going to rage and stomp around like some people. Like I said, until there is proof of actual fraud, there is little recourse that wouldn't just waste more time and money.

This is what I mean by impotent rage. I took off his name and I took out what he backed. But come on, who does he think will listen to his ominous but very empty threats?

You win some and lose some. I have been incredibly lucky in 95% of my KS working out.

The amount of rage that goes on in Kickstarter comments for even the smallest perceived slight is amazing. One week late? "REFUND". Haven't updated in a while? "FRAUDS". Finally admitting it's not gonna happen, and offering refunds? "WHO WANTS TO JOIN OUR CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT?". It feels like the loudest people on Kickstarter are the people who understand it the least.

I feel bad for those people who seem to be trying/doing their damndest and it just falls through. Most of the time its a case of bit off more than they can chew. But it seems there are very few cases of a ks failure where they haven't at least made a conceited effort to get the job done. And hell, the failures themselves happen a lot fucking less than some people would like you to believe. It sort of surprises me how sound ks is on a whole.

It's shocking how few people understand the risks of Kickstarter yet donate anyway.

I guess someone people expect backing things to be simple and every time a Kickstarter fails they scream "Corruption !" or "Fraud !" or something else. Sometimes plans to create a product just don't work out.

100% of kickstarter projects I have donated to have come out and exceeded my expectations. I have seen DOZENS of kickstarter projects that I would like, but I know have no reason to have my faith.

It's not Kickstarter that has to change, it's BACKERS who need to wake up and realize what Kickstarter is, and how to read project briefs to decide which ones are worthwhile and which ones are not. OOYA is a perfect example. I could EASILY read the kickstarter page and see that they were promising a ton of things that they had no basis to promise.

personally, what i am MORE maddened about than anything regarding kickstarter are all the promises Sony made at E3 about the Playstation 4 like, for instance, Drive Club, that never actually existed. THAT is more of a problem to me.

@monkeyking1969 said:

People still use the phrase "epic fail," huh?

I've never backed a kickstarter and never plan to. The final product could always wind up being sub-standard trash, or the people behind the kickstarter can take the money and run. There's plenty of stuff on there I would like to own, but whatever, i can buy it if/when it comes out for real.

This is why I never give to crowd funding that are not for friends or charitable causes.

Yeah, of course they do. Largely, since it's still an "internet enthusiast" thing, the kinds of people who invest heavily in a Kickstarter are the kinds who think they're too smart to lose money. The type who wouldn't pledge to a Televangelist because that's for suckers, but this little $100 system that's promising to bury the Xbox and Playstation!? And they use words like "open-source," "anti-corporate" and "developer-friendly"?! SIGN ME UP!!

There's a whole new racket on the internet taking advantage specifically of under-informed people who still think they're too smart to be taken advantage of. This is not to say ALL Kickstarters are this, far from it, but I'm always fascinated to see through lines of language that follow a lot of Kickstarters that either fail outright or fail to live up to their supposed potential.

Over the last six months I have given up on Kickstarter. A persistantly high number of projects have gone Fuck it and not completed on sending out all rewards even though they are still active doing other work. Many many others are/have been excruciatingly slow at moving projects forward, a few have gone quiet and probably run off with the money.

I have received some stuff that was good, some that wasn't embarrassing trash and some complete junk.

My problem is not always the money, it's the aggravation of not knowing what is going on most of the time as very few projects give any regular updates of where they are at. Sometimes when they do update you know they are BSing anyway.

I have a few creators that have done good projects that I will follow if they come back to Kickstarter, other than that, not doing it anymore.

The first Kickstarter I backed failed. Since then I've backed two more, one that is still currently manufacturing the product (they were meant to come this year but have been pushed to next) and one that literally just finished funding, but is by a team I've been following for years. I really hope they both succeed, but if they don't I doubt I'd use Kickstarter again.

I have backed 35 projects that went on to be funded. Of that, 25 have competed the projects and sent my "rewards". Six are still in production, but look on track to finish successfully and send reward. I fully expect three of those six to be sure-thing locks where a rewards will come. So, about 28 projects will/have worked out for me in my estimation.

Of the six, I think two games might fail - Shenmue 3 and H-Hour. The remaining project I worry about, is Tiko. Tiko is behind schedule and they are having problems with parts fitting. This is the sort of "kick the can" down the road that backers were hearing from my failed drone project. On the other hand I actually think Tiko still has a chance, so I have not given up hope. (And yes that leaves three or four projects that failed to send me my reward. Of those three the drone was by far the largest, those other two or three were $30 pledges to artists.

I do not think I will back any more game on KS. I think games just are too risky to pledge more than $1. If I want a game I'll pledge $1 to show support, but I will be more than happy to buy the game full price from retail later. That seems like the best best way to deal with games. Yes, that means less games will be on KS because it won't be a cash cow, but maybe that is for the best.

So, remember how I said 25 of my KS so far have delivered. Well, they delivered big not just for me, but for the people I backed. Some of these people have gone on to do big things in their lives, and I feel more than a little proud to have helped these people. That's why I will always support KickStarter or give people money on GoFundMe or Patrion. And, I think that why many of my projects do work out, I seek out authentic people trying to do authentic projects....not just games or gadgets. I support off-Broadway plays, documentaries, ballet, hand painted art, and a girl who is a demon on the banjo.

I was just thinking to myself, "How many KS have I backed with 'over' $150 that have failed? And, I was a little shocked that my top donations have done pretty well. Just one failure in that range and it wasn't even my highest ones. And my top eight donations will just have one failure and one where the projects is arriving a "eigh months" late...BUT fully functional and better than expected.

Back to the original thread of this though, you might have seems that KickStarter must think the backers of a failed drone rate "royal" treatment since they hired an investigative journalist to write-up a full story of what happend. Notice, that this was their response, not refunds. They will pay for an inquiry and accounting in the form of a news story. Still not too bad in that they have not done this in the past with other big failures.

However, the unrealistic dreams of getting our money back still seem like a pipe dream to me. Who know a squeaky well might get some cash back, but I'm not even going to try. I was over 'the loss', about 5 min after the news.

What I would actually like is first crack at buying some of the liquidated assets. It would be nice to get a logical board, sensors, camera and shell from the sale of assets...I could build the drone myself that way.

My problem with kickstarter is that it's not an investment but people seem to think it is. The people behind the project are essentially asking for free money, you are not getting a share of the company. If the project tanks, they don't owe you anything. If the project goes well and they go on to make millions of dollars, they don't owe you anything. Backer rewards are like the coffee mug that your company gives you for 5 years of service.

I'll be happy to buy a product once its gets to market, but if I give you money to build it, I want a share.

Hey, if people want equity - Well, they can do that on other services and with a commensurate investment of money. To be honest, I'd love to see how "equity in" projects from places like Fig will do. My guess is not well.

There will be a very small group of projects the 'typical nerds' will want to back, and teh ones they do want to back WON'T be on Fig. If you want equity in something...build something...it is probably easier. Anything worth investing in, won't be on Fig in all likelihood, so there will be never be Oculus-like or OUYA-like ventures on Fig. The people behind Oculus knew what they had, so they were not going to sell equity to small investors. Hell, Oculus likely never would have been sold to Facebook if there were "Fig Level" investors muddying the waters....and not with out Carmack. My guess is Carmack would never have gone there if it had been a Fig-like investment scheme, thus Oculus would not have been "the Oculus" that sold to Facebook" that made them millions.