Avatar image for jd_delgado
#1 Edited by jd_delgado (42 posts) -

So I saw Logan yesterday and wanted to share some thoughts:

1. Good God, that's a violent movie. Gritty, and disturbing, especially once Laura, a.k.a. X-23 shows that she can fight as well. There are an awful lot of broken limbs, stabbings and an eleven year old shooting a man, and sure you can cheer that good trumped evil, but nevertheless the shock value remains.

2. Consequences! As in, people die, characters that have been around forever die. If the death of Charles makes you angry, then the death of Logan felt more like the end of the road. He was the kid's Moses. He was going to help them reach the promise land, but sadly, was not going to enter it.

3. I know, I know, people want their superhero movies to be escapists romps, and that's fine, but I think there's a place for dead serious character studies of superheroes as well. (Looking at you Dark Knight Trilogy and Man of Steel, a movie that I llike way more than I should) Logan succeeds on the latter and I hope we get more movies like these in the future.

Hope to hear your thoughts!

Avatar image for csl316
#2 Posted by csl316 (13913 posts) -

I don't need every comic book movie to be full of witty dialogue and dumb twists like the Iron Man 3 Mandarin thing.

Man of Steel was great. Dark Knight, Logan, Dredd... all serious, heavy stuff that was well-made and did something unique.

Avatar image for humanity
#3 Edited by Humanity (16204 posts) -

I think despite the trailers and interviews there will be plenty of people that will have missed the memo and gone to this thing expecting another superhero movie, and it's anything but. Logan is first and foremost a movie about life and people. It's about individuals trying to find their way in a very real world full of real worries and real problems, who also happen to have these supernatural abilities.

I also greatly respect Logan for being so extremely unapologetic about indulging Hugh Jackmans vision of sending this character off. There is no exposition, no explaining who Wolverine is and what his powers do. You are meant to be acquainted with some basic X-Men knowledge because the movie isn't going to spoon feed you any of that. Of course there is some rather lazy story expositionining in a few spots - the whole phone thing - but mostly you are treated like an adult that knows who Wolverine is, or Prof X or the X-Men. They made a movie they clearly wanted to make and didn't care at all abou continuity or whatnot.

Anyway I liked it. Some parts were a bit worse than others and it's a long movie, but overall hats off for accomplishing some real depth with basically a superhero flick.

Avatar image for justin258
#4 Posted by Justin258 (14373 posts) -

I saw it earlier today. It's easily the best X-Men movie thus far - that isn't exactly a high bar, I know, but damn this movie is pretty good. And pretty bleak. I went in knowing what they were going for and they still went bleaker than I expected them to. It's basically The Last of Us movie that we all hoped Sony was going to make at some point. They used Johnny Cash's Hurt for the first trailer and I can't think of a better song to match what was going on in this movie, even if it is a bit overused/overplayed.

@humanity said:

They made a movie they clearly wanted to make and didn't care at all abou continuity or whatnot.

I haven't actually seen Days of Future Past and I haven't seen all of The Wolverine - just bits and pieces - but even without much knowledge of those two movies, I don't think they could have made anything like this while caring about continuity. I'm glad they decided to throw pretty much any notion of keeping continuity out the window, the X-Men movies have been pretty bad about that anyway.

Avatar image for fredchuckdave
#5 Edited by Fredchuckdave (10205 posts) -

Joel's better at absorbing tree branches than Wolverine, what a puss. Also Ellie talked a lot more and the Last of Us is better as a TV Show or miniseries than a movie.

Middle section is really damn good; other parts were maybe a little too much in the trailer but generally pretty good; Oscar worthy performances from Jack Hughman and Stewart Patrick.

Logan doesn't resemble a superhero movie almost at all and shouldn't be burdened by the various issues that come with said genre association. It's post apocalyptic for one subset of people which is neat.

Supposedly this should be in the Last Stand timeline wherein Professor X was exploded and everybody died except Wolverine; not really sure but its fun to think about. X2 is still a great movie.

Avatar image for taig
#6 Posted by taig (41 posts) -

Pretending the character of wolverine has never really lived a full life is insane. The time travelling 150 year old really never lived? Yea ok.

The characters emotional journey in the film is so empty and false. I don't know how you can say this isn't a traditional super hero movie.

Was there a 15+ minute boring ass fight in the 3rd act? Yes there was. Really bucked the tradition there guys. The lead died? Fuck that shit has happened last march.

Shane is a classic movie, but sorry it isn't good. It's not clever to do the Shane ending and include that terrible scene with that awful kid, then even show the ending of shane, and so ape the ending of shane. (The whole is he dead? Yes he is ending.) Because Shane is used to teach children about visual metaphor doesn't make it a good movie. It makes it an easy to movie to explain.

I don't understand how you guys can pretend a movie where the ultimate villain was fucking genetically modified corn was "serious."

Abysmally paced garbage.

Avatar image for coolarman
#7 Posted by Coolarman (1317 posts) -

@taig: So i take it you liked it :P

Avatar image for evilsbane
#8 Edited by Evilsbane (5561 posts) -

@taig said:

Pretending the character of wolverine has never really lived a full life is insane. The time travelling 150 year old really never lived? Yea ok.

The characters emotional journey in the film is so empty and false. I don't know how you can say this isn't a traditional super hero movie.

Was there a 15+ minute boring ass fight in the 3rd act? Yes there was. Really bucked the tradition there guys. The lead died? Fuck that shit has happened last march.

Shane is a classic movie, but sorry it isn't good. It's not clever to do the Shane ending and include that terrible scene with that awful kid, then even show the ending of shane, and so ape the ending of shane. (The whole is he dead? Yes he is ending.) Because Shane is used to teach children about visual metaphor doesn't make it a good movie. It makes it an easy to movie to explain.

I don't understand how you guys can pretend a movie where the ultimate villain was fucking genetically modified corn was "serious."

Abysmally paced garbage.

1. Wolverine from the beginning of the movie franchise was a tortured soul a man without a past, X-men one he literally doesn't know who he is.

2. His emotional journey was X-Men 1: No memories and meets Jean X-Men 2 He loses thinks he loses Jean while discovering his dark past X-Men 3 he literally has to murder Jean Que 2029 he is still a sad man who has watched the world wipe the mutants out.

3. 15 Minute fights scene sure Boring? I mean I guess that is your opinion but I didn't find it boring in the least. Have no idea what the lead dying in any other movies from any other time have to do with Logan.

4. What do you have against visual metaphors or corny westerns?

5. There were three villains don't think corn was the focus there...

6. The beginning could be called slow but I didn't think so and without it the rest of it doesn't hit as hard.

Avatar image for taig
#9 Edited by taig (41 posts) -

@evilsbane:

1 and 2. I think the way Logan behaved in the 3rd movie was false to his journey as a character. I think it fails individually and as a whole.

3. I find every comic book movies 3rd act action sequence bloated and boring. So I don't say this was particularly the worst but it is one of these bloated boring movies. It doesn't escape the flaws of its genre. It definitely is a by the numbers comic book movie.

4. I love westerns. I love visual metaphor. I think Shane is a bad example of both so including what I think is the worst scene from a bad movie in your movie I have problems with.

5. They explicitly say corn syrup= no more mutants. Corn syrup probably even caused Professor X's brain disease that killed everybody else. Corn Syrup is definitely the biggest bad in the movie. Otherwise what is it? Ineffectual robot hand guy? Scientist with the budget to clone some people? Clone that gets shot in the face? Hardly villains.

6. Every scene had long moments where we just wait for the next thing to happen. That sort of editing demands emotional investment and I had zero and fuck Im a god damn nerd.

Avatar image for guitargod
#10 Posted by GuitarGod (40 posts) -

it's definitely worth seeing in theaters, and i thought it was a well directed movie with great action, very violent.

that being said, i thought one major plot hole was the fact that those bad guys could track them EVERY FUCKING WHERE!

like at first it made sense, because that Chinese owned industrial place was kinda off the grid, but still find-able, OK

then they put a tracker on the chauffeur car, OK

but how do they follow them to that ranch house? or the hotel? how did they find them?

Avatar image for vashyron
#11 Posted by Vashyron (266 posts) -

@guitargod: Caliban was forced to track them. He is a mutant who can track other mutants.

Avatar image for taig
#12 Edited by taig (41 posts) -

Oh one last thing before I go to work. I'm not just a negative nancy. I fucking love Legion on tv right now. Think it is amazing. Watch that shit.

Avatar image for alkusanagi
#13 Posted by AlKusanagi (1431 posts) -

The third act was a little weak, but I loved it. My only real problem is that there were no adults there with the mutant kids. We know they helped them escape, so you'd figure at least one or two would have been there. Also there were probably a few too many of them to have made it. Cool seeing Richter in the movie though, even if he was one of the worst New Mutants ever.

Avatar image for colonel_pockets
#14 Posted by Colonel_Pockets (1012 posts) -

I thought it was fantastic. I really need to go out and see it again, but I feel it is the 2nd best comic book movie of all time. The best comic book movies put characters at the forefront of the movie and then action second. Having characters you care about elevates the action and Logan utilizes this a ton. Huge props to Fox for allowing Jackman and Mangold to make the film they wanted. I hope this move makes a shit load of money, so they can continue to make cool movies like this. I also hope the executives at WB take a hard look at this film and understand why it is so great. It's a dark, serious and gritty film that still has light-hearted humor that fits the situation. Everything has a purpose in this film.

5/5

Avatar image for anonymous_jesse
#15 Posted by Anonymous_Jesse (224 posts) -

A solid 4 out of 5. I enjoyed all the acting and grounded (for a comic book) story telling. There was also quite a bit I didn't really like. I think the last act with the kids didn't really work. The action while I liked how brutal, it was all a bit one note. I really disliked the conversation about the corn. But the subtle story about Charles killing all his students is so messed up. That is really well done.

Overall quite good.

Avatar image for dudeglove
#16 Posted by dudeglove (12574 posts) -

Someone who was watching Deadpool took the right notes.

Avatar image for psngamesun
#17 Edited by PSNgamesun (444 posts) -

I enjoyed the movie a lot. I mean a lot! For starters I feel the performances by the 3 leads are great and in particular Hugh Jackmans wolverine is great. The action sequences are brutal but speak to the tonality of the characters. Essentially it's an action film with character and plot. Although the first 15 or 20 mins felt way over the top, but I think that will improve on a second viewing since I know the tone of the film (although that nudity sequence is silly).

I will say that the film is heavily influenced by Terminator 2 like a lot. Almost to a fault since I kept thinking about T2 at points. Still what better movie to be influenced by though.

Also if I'm going to have real complaints it would have to be the villains. I like how they are set up but the way they end was very underwhelming. I expected more. Also I wanted Wolverine to beat his clone like Arnold beat the liquid Robot dude in T2, but alas that is a small gripe.

Overall though I give it a 5/5 or a A-

Avatar image for horseman6
#18 Posted by horseman6 (1178 posts) -

Best X-Men/Wolverine movie yet. Probably up there with Gaurdians of the Galaxy as my favorite Marvel movies. The biggest issue I have with Marvel films is the general abundance of cheesiness; this film didn't really have that, it's an adult story with flawed and interesting characters.

Avatar image for bane
#19 Edited by Bane (707 posts) -

I can't believe those kids fucked up his beard. Ugh, I would've been so pissed.

I thought the movie was great. It's mingling at the top of my favorites list for sure. I liked Norman's tweet about the movie, it sums up what I think pretty well.

Avatar image for sackmanjones
#20 Posted by Sackmanjones (5508 posts) -

@anonymous_jesse: hold the phone.... I must've missed the subtle story about him killing his students. Maybe I spaced on it or just wasn't really thinking deeply into what he was saying but can you specify this moment?

Avatar image for alkusanagi
#21 Posted by AlKusanagi (1431 posts) -

@sackmanjones: There's a radio report saying something about an incident in Westchester (where the X-mansion was) in which 600 humans were injured and some mutants died (7 I think). I didn't remember hearing it, but apparently the reporter says "Including some members of the..." and the radio gets turned off.

Avatar image for mike
#22 Posted by Mike (17288 posts) -

Saw Logan in 2D IMAX on Sunday. Totally worth the extra cost, it's easily my favorite film out of all the X-Men and Wolverine flicks to date. Can't wait to see what they do with X-23 in the future.

Moderator
Avatar image for quarters
#23 Posted by Quarters (2591 posts) -

I didn't like it at all. I have no problem with a character study, except for the fact that all of the characters kind of sucked and were completely unlikable save for X-23. Plus, I thought I was going to lose my mind once Logan complained about having to take care of her for about the twentieth time. Just repetitious character beat after repetitious character beat. Sure, it was dark, sure it had consequences, but that doesn't make any of it good. The villains sucked, the plot sucked, and I thought it tried way too hard to earn it's rating. This isn't even talking about the fact that I feel the screwed up chronology of the series totally robbed this of all emotional impact, which was absolutely essential to any of the movie working. The Wolverine was an infinitely better movie. And for those saying that this wasn't a superhero movie, the finale was just Weapon XI all over again. The setup for the movie was just a play off the The Wolverine's start point. The more I thought about it, the more angry I became. Sure, the action scenes are good and brutal, but that's about the only thing going for it. Bleh. Hugh Jackman's time as the character deserved a better end than this. Same goes for Patrick Stewart.

And to sum this up, the problems with the continuity basically lead me to two conclusions: either A) this movie isn't in the same universe as the other ones, so these are characters that I have zero investment in and this is a completely empty and pointless movie, or B) this movie is in the same universe as the other ones, and those are only going to end horribly for every single character involved, so there's no point in being invested in those. It's a complete lose-lose.

Also, for one last punctuation, screw Deadpool too. It was an overconfident, obnoxious try-hard that also was too in love with its own R-Rating. Sorry for the rant, I'm just really agitated by what this whole series has become.

Avatar image for crackity_jones
#24 Posted by crackity_jones (25 posts) -

I loved it and can't wait to see it again. Was also surprised by the Deadpool teaser at the beginning.

Avatar image for atastyslurpee
#25 Posted by ATastySlurpee (218 posts) -

Totally wet my appetite for seeing dudes get stabbed.

Avatar image for cerebus
#26 Posted by Cerebus (88 posts) -

Really enjoyed the movie. Really reminded me of the Greg Rucka comics back in the early 2000's. This is the wolverine I have been waiting for the last 17 years. Wolverine's a dick....but he's our dick.

Avatar image for werupenstein
#27 Posted by Kidavenger (4168 posts) -

I was happy with it, thought that X24 was a stupid idea, the movie would have been much better had they used Sabertooth in the place of X24.

Avatar image for castiel
#28 Posted by Castiel (3276 posts) -

Great movie.

One thing I really didn't like though:

The perfectly edited phone video Logan watches about the mutant test tube kids. The Lady with Laura has apparently spend some time in Premiere Pro and edited it all together complete with her voice over and everything into a neat little video and then transfered the edited video back to her phone so Logan could watch it. That is the equivalent of laughably bad fake movie hacking. Stop doing that filmmakers! The video is way to elaborate for something she secretly recorded in a hurry in case anything bad happens to her.

Avatar image for mandude
#29 Posted by mandude (2827 posts) -

It was alright, but it seemed a bit like a first draft.

Why was morale so high in the Reavers? None of them seemed to care about their very real prospects of a vile and unpleasant death, yet they'd still march on like butter to a knife.

Why were all the kids running away at the end? Each one of them would run away from the kamikaze Reavers, only to unleash a superpower of unspeakable usefulness once caught. Why didn't they stand their ground and co-ordinate themselves?

I thought they were all raised in a facility in Mexico? Why did they all speak like Americans? Except for the girl who had a very far-reaching grasp of English, yet one narrow enough for communication to be a convenient issue earlier in the movie.

Avatar image for roninenix
#30 Posted by roninenix (207 posts) -

The part about Charles killing his own students is some fucked up shit. Wasn't really easy to understand unless you know of it from the old man logan comics beforehand.

@mandude said:

It was alright, but it seemed a bit like a first draft.

Why was morale so high in the Reavers? None of them seemed to care about their very real prospects of a vile and unpleasant death, yet they'd still march on like butter to a knife.

Maybe manufactured soldiers? That know nothing except following orders. Like what they're trying to do to those children. Turning them into soldiers, but with more firepower.


I thought they were all raised in a facility in Mexico? Why did they all speak like Americans? Except for the girl who had a very far-reaching grasp of English, yet one narrow enough for communication to be a convenient issue earlier in the movie.

Correct me if I'm wrong since I might not be remembering it correctly, but they were secluded inside a facility where all the staff were speaking english to them. It's not like they were let out into the community to socialize or learn of the Mexican culture and language.

Avatar image for mandude
#31 Posted by mandude (2827 posts) -

@roninenix: My first guess was that they were manufactured, but then I'm left with the question of why they're so useless. If their branch was bred/manufactured for the purposes of capturing and neutralising the experiments, why manufacture them to be so useless?

They weren't necessarily Mexicans but Logan's daughter and the video of the facility seemed to suggest that the children were, at the very least, a product of having been raised by Mexican people. Don't get me wrong, it's an incredibly minor nitpick, but I just don't know why they'd establish one thing, and then ignore it.

Avatar image for humanity
#32 Edited by Humanity (16204 posts) -

@castiel: yah in a movie that doesn't really try to tell you anything that was a pretty poorly implemented info dump. It's probably one of like two major problems I had with it.

Avatar image for vashyron
#33 Posted by Vashyron (266 posts) -

One could ask why you'd ever want to be a stormtrooper since you will probably die as well, despite wearing armor that is supposed to protect you from lasers (if anything, means your death is assured.)

I imagine that Reavers morale is high, because until recently (the time they start showing up in the movie) they haven't had a lot of problems doing the job. It is only until Logan is forced to be involved that shit starts going really bad for them. At which point, when you find out that your comrades and, potentially, friends got chopped up by an old man and a little girl, you probably want revenge, so you go out...only to then get chumped by said old man, little girl, or someone with them.

And as for the kids running away...they are kids who have adults chasing after them and maybe don't have a full grasp of their powers? And sure, that reason really doesn't hold up when you see that they are able to gang up with zero issue or effort, but it really is only for dramatic tension though than any logical reason. I mean, the kids were broken out of the facility by people who worked there and feared for the lives of the kids. Why don't the Reavers just shoot them and be done with it? Blap, problem solved, but they don't cause it would ruin Logan's heroic save as his body literally starts to give out.

Avatar image for mandude
#34 Edited by mandude (2827 posts) -

@vashyron: I don't mean morale for general enlistment, I'm more talking about the individual skirmishes and why one doesn't run away once the battle isn't going in their favour.

There is a logic underpinning the Stormtrooper's actions: 'if I shoot my enemy before they shoot me, I'll have won.' It's unfortunate that for some reason, it never does go their way, but the logic is at least sound.

The Reavers surely must be instead thinking: 'I have to capture and restrain my enemy, who only has to so much as think of my graphic death for it to happen.' If they are thinking that, why don't they run away? Especially when so often, they get to witness the violent death of the Reaver right in front of them.

That's why I think it's kind of like a first draft. I can see why they did it that way, but the girl's graphic display of fighting prowess near the start undermines the kids' later uselessness, and it is noticeable. I don't think it's a problem with plot, but that it could have used some tightening.

Avatar image for vashyron
#35 Posted by Vashyron (266 posts) -

@mandude: I wasn't suggesting enlistment either. I was more talking about how they probably think they are badass dudes because they haven't, as far as we know, really come up against a challenge that they weren't able to deal with. That tends to make people cocky.

I can't imagine that is what the Reavers would be thinking unless failure is worse for them than potentially being killed by a child.

Avatar image for giantstalker
#36 Edited by Giantstalker (2293 posts) -

I didn't really like this one. It felt too violent for its own good. The incredible goriness just didn't feel "earned" half the time, the whole thing started feeling very much like Mortal Kombat. Often gratuitous, sometimes pointless, over the top is maybe a better way to express it.

As for the rest of the film, the chemistry between Logan and Charles nearly saved it; those were two good performances, great even. But the kids as a whole really dragged it down, including X-23 which was hands down my least favorite part of the movie. That plus the action sequences generally fell flat... especially the final bit, which combines corny kids with bad action in a confusing woods chase/fight. It seriously detracted from the death of Logan, aka the most important part of the movie. That was the real bummer for me.

2/5 for not being a trainwreck

Avatar image for wmoyer83
#37 Posted by WMoyer83 (914 posts) -

I think this movie could spin off into a entirely new universe that Marvel could take advantage of. Im curious as to what happens after this film, and to fill in the blanks of what happened before.

This movie was far more interesting than any of the X-Men books out right now.