It's times like that that you need some wise words to guide you through the future, and at this time, I can't think of anything more apt than 'We are FUCKED!' as said by Private First Class William Hudson of the US Colonial Marines.
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control.
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
+1 Lies. I don't why so many people can't seem to grasp that.
Unfortunately the world economy works in cycle's. And we've had a long period of economic stability, so now we're going to go through a period of recession. This is probably going to be one of the easiest periods of recession the world has seen. In the past when there have been economic low points the majority of people had much fewer luxuries to cut back on than we do now. The majority of people will be fine, they'll just need to cut back on a few things. The only people who are going to be in serious trouble are those who are currently in large amounts of debt, and that's their own fault.
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
+1 Lies. I don't why so many people can't seem to grasp that.
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
uhh well maybe if the government didnt deregulate and saved its money........the dollar is going down in value fast
So you think if someone else had been president, we wouldn't be in this predicament? I highly doubt that, but then my personal opinion is that the President is just a figure head and the government will do whatever they want anyway, so what do I know.
Either way, it doesn't really matter, we're stuck here now. Rough times are ahead.
So you think if someone else had been president, we wouldn't be in this predicament? I highly doubt that, but then my personal opinion is that the President is just a figure head and the government will do whatever they want anyway, so what do I know.
Either way, it doesn't really matter, we're stuck here now. Rough times are ahead."
No, I disagree with his saying it's the defaulter's faults.
Like Matty said the world economy is heading into recession. We've been here before (and a lot worse than this too I believe).
No doubt the economy is in a predicament but be careful of the news sources that are scare mongering. Cut backs will need to be made of course but like has already been said it is a cyclic (?).
I'm enjoying importing from the US just now. Just one of my Great British Pounds gets me nearly two of your American dollars. Half price!
"No, I disagree with his saying it's the defaulter's faults."
Oh I see. Misinterpreted that, sorry.
I think the mortgage companies were far too lenient dishing our mortgages over the last few years. Especially people with low-income jobs, how did they ever think they could pay them off?
get2sammyb said:
"I'm enjoying importing from the US just now. Just one of my Great British Pounds gets me nearly two of your American dollars. Half price!"
IR SPECIAL . YES SPEND 700 billion tax payer money to keep the ideioc ceos back in power where they may just fuck us even more. and we need it now when they dont even bother to have an economist at there meting to make the dame compromise. and the ecomomist say to not rush this and they do so now we have a Hover how do you feel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vglyHuh2un0
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
+1 Lies. I don't why so many people can't seem to grasp that.
"
Because it's a load of horse shit."
Cutting and pasting "Iraq War" from Wikipedia:
"The financial cost of the war has been more than £4.5 billion ($9 billion) to the UK,and over $845 billion to the U.S., with the total cost to the U.S. economy estimated at $3 trillion"
Without the war we would have been able to pay for this easily.
Not only that, Federal funding was cut to pay for this. What happens when Federal funding gets cut? People lose jobs (we had about a 10% reduction in non-professor workforce at the U of M). What happens when people lose their jobs? They can't pay their mortgages.
People don't just as a big group default on their mortgages for no reason. Maybe it would have happened no matter who was President, but it could have been significantly lessened, were talking $700 billion here. It's what happens when the government becomes a big spender (we had a trade surplus before George W. came into office - he sure turned that around in a hurry), somebody has to pick up the tab eventually. The government tried to stimulate the economy with housing. Cutting and pasting "Subprime mortgage crisis" from Wikipedia:
"The risks to the broader economy created by the financial market crisis and housing market downturn were primary factors in several decisions by the U.S. Federal Reserve to cut interest rates and the economic stimulus package passed by Congress and signed by President George W. Bush on 13 February 2008"
It was a gamble, and they lost; well, the banks and the people who couldn't pay lost.
Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford were "lackluster" Bush was destructive.
That's awfully tenuous. I guess its better to say "hey if the war never happened we could afford _____" than to recognize congress voted for deregulation (that's Obama and McCain) and that's what got us into this mess. So it would have happened either way, only without the war we could afford to bail out the banks easier. But we shouldnt be bailing out banks to begin with, so get over your parrot of a rant and think of a solution. Not everything is Bush's fault, that's so fucking ignorant. Its like this generation has no concept of how the 3 party system works. Its impossible to have a single straw man with a 3 party system.
So you think if someone else had been president, we wouldn't be in this predicament? I highly doubt that, but then my personal opinion is that the President is just a figure head and the government will do whatever they want anyway, so what do I know.
Either way, it doesn't really matter, we're stuck here now. Rough times are ahead."
Correct, mortgages are a big part of the crisis. But really it's the debt that we're in from the war, which is in the trillions.
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
+1 Lies. I don't why so many people can't seem to grasp that.
"
Doesn't the President only have 1/3 of the power. It's out own fault and the bankers... The Congress (Mainly their fault for past couple years) sucks and they didn't realize this was going to happen. I F*CKING hate History but we have it for this reason alone.
So you think if someone else had been president, we wouldn't be in this predicament? I highly doubt that, but then my personal opinion is that the President is just a figure head and the government will do whatever they want anyway, so what do I know.
Either way, it doesn't really matter, we're stuck here now. Rough times are ahead."
Correct, mortgages are a big part of the crisis. But really it's the debt that we're in from the war, which is in the trillions."
War debt only comes into the picture as we would have more funds available to bail out the economy, it wouldn't have averted the crisis. The crisis originated with banks giving out bad loans that homeowners realistically had no chance to pay.
The problem here is banks giving out mortgages to people that had less than stellar credit at high-interest rates. These mortgages were then bundled up and sold to financial institutions as safe money, with mutual funds, stock brokers, and banks buying them up. When these people started to default on their loans because they really didn't have much of a chance to pay it in the beginning, they just stopped paying and walked away. With no one to pay back the loans, the banks that had given the loans were in trouble, as well as the Wall-Street financial institutions that had bought these sub-prime mortgages up in the millions, looking for an easy profit. Since no one was paying their loans, these big-time financial institutions were out BIG money, with no way of paying it back, save a federal bailout (which is what happened with companies like AIG). But many more banks than it is possible for the fed to bail out bought into these loans, so they're all out money. No one knows how far-reaching this crisis is, which leads to an atmosphere of everybody wanting to sell, and no one wanting to buy because they don't want to buy up bad stock or loans.
The fed will bail out what it needs to to keep our economy afloat, but the capitalist system just isn't designed to be owned by the federal government. that runs completely counter to the whole philosophy. The fed only bailed out anybody because this crisis was starting to threaten our economy's stability.
So you think if someone else had been president, we wouldn't be in this predicament? I highly doubt that, but then my personal opinion is that the President is just a figure head and the government will do whatever they want anyway, so what do I know.
Either way, it doesn't really matter, we're stuck here now. Rough times are ahead."
Correct, mortgages are a big part of the crisis. But really it's the debt that we're in from the war, which is in the trillions."
War debt only comes into the picture as we would have more funds available to bail out the economy, it wouldn't have averted the crisis. The crisis originated with banks giving out bad loans that homeowners realistically had no chance to pay.
The problem here is banks giving out mortgages to people that had less than stellar credit at high-interest rates. These mortgages were then bundled up and sold to financial institutions as safe money, with mutual funds, stock brokers, and banks buying them up. When these people started to default on their loans because they really didn't have much of a chance to pay it in the beginning, they just stopped paying and walked away. With no one to pay back the loans, the banks that had given the loans were in trouble, as well as the Wall-Street financial institutions that had bought these sub-prime mortgages up in the millions, looking for an easy profit. Since no one was paying their loans, these big-time financial institutions were out BIG money, with no way of paying it back, save a federal bailout (which is what happened with companies like AIG). But many more banks than it is possible for the fed to bail out bought into these loans, so they're all out money. No one knows how far-reaching this crisis is, which leads to an atmosphere of everybody wanting to sell, and no one wanting to buy because they don't want to buy up bad stock or loans.
The fed will bail out what it needs to to keep our economy afloat, but the capitalist system just isn't designed to be owned by the federal government. that runs completely counter to the whole philosophy. The fed only bailed out anybody because this crisis was starting to threaten our economy's stability."
+1, I'm not familiar with economics so it's nice to see it explained well.
Something that cost in trillions is tenuous? Anything that costs that much has to have some kind of impact.
>I guess it is better to say "hey if the war never happened we could afford ____" than to recognize congress voted for deregulation >(that's Obama and McCain) and that's what got us in this mess
And Bush approved it
>So it would have happened either way, only without the war we could afford to bail out the banks easier
Not necessarily. This is my chain of events in a nutshell. 1) We got into a war that cost us trillions 2) This war slowed the economy (when you spend that much, it has to be taken from elsewhere, in this case money that was supposed to help our economy) 3) Since the economy was slowed, they cut interest rates and deregulated laws to stimulate the economy (why else would they do it?) 4) people didn't pay back their loans and it came crashing down
>so get over your parrot of a rant and think of a solution
My point is just as relevant if I copy and pasted it from somewhere or thought of it on my own (I thought of it and used Wikipedia to back it up). And telling me to think of a solution is irrelevant. I'm just pointing out the emperor has no clothes, I don't have to say what he has to wear, he's just as naked (The thread isn't titled "what are some solutions ...?"). And I know it's Tu quoque-ish, but nobody else has a solution on this thread.
>Not everything is Bush's fault, that's so fucking ignorant
Who said it was all his fault? I more or less think of him as the kingpin in all this. As President (a branch of office held by one person - as such, assumes a leadership position) and Commander in Chief (see Iraq War) and he could have vetoed any of those Bills Congress passed (they share the blame too) - some of those bills he implemented. I only said this because people were making it out like this crisis would have been the same no matter who was President, which I find ridiculous.
>Its like this generation has no concept how the 3 party system works
What do you mean by this generation? And what does being a Democrat/Republican/Independent have to do in all this? Maybe you're right, maybe some people of your generation has no concept of the three branches of government and how it works.
>Its impossible to have a single straw man with a 3 party system
Well, I don't see the judicial branch playing much of a role in this, so that just leaves Congress (with hundreds of members) and Bush. Hence, that's why I have him as the kingpin.
[Lies] >War debt only comes into the picture as we would have more funds available to bail out the economy, it wouldn't have averted the >crisis. The crisis originated with banks giving out bad loans that homeowners realistically had no chance to pay
See my nutshell above. But yes, if the bankers wouldn't have been so greedy. Also if there wasn't a war, the economy would have been better and there would have been a greater chance at least some of them would have paid the loans back.
It's only Bush's fault as he was one more person who let the corporations run wild, along the lines of the Republican philosophy since Reagan. The Democrats could have pushed harder against this path, but traditionally the Republicans & Libertarians follow this ideology which is fundamentally flawed. Trickle down does NOT work, EVER. The vast majority of value never trickles down, and at that point the money can never be recycled into the system.
It's certainly not wholly the fault of people who bought the bad mortgages, but the fault of banks selling mortgages that had a bad chance of ever being paid off & then selling those bad debts to other banks under false pretense.
Anyways, we are moving to a more populist or socialist time in the world. I'm actually worried things are going to knee jerk too far over the other way, and then we'll have more corrupt gov'ts with more power than ever before.
The Republican ideology in this current crisis would allow the world economy to completely collapse, and new smarter people would build new, better managed banks and those people would become the new powers.
Guys, the rejection is a good thing in the long run, trust me, if this bill still doesn't pass after consecutive reconsideration's you would have just saved yourself from being completely owned by foreign investors. This a good thing, they're trying to smear it. Unfortunately i don't see this not passing by the elections. Well see i guess.
[Jigen] >It's only Bush's fault as he was one more person who let the corporations run wild [Player1] >You should just call this topic, "Lets all blame Bush for something hes not responsible for!"
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
"[Jigen] >It's only Bush's fault as he was one more person who let the corporations run wild [Player1] >You should just call this topic, "Lets all blame Bush for something hes not responsible for!"
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
Totally correct. It's actually Regans fault!
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that is true, he deregulated the market and nows its full of weeds
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
Totally correct. It's actually Regans fault!
"
that is true, he deregulated the market and nows its full of weeds"
That's not true at all. Regan wanted Government to get out of the markets, something that has not happened since he left office. Government intervention is one of the reason we are in this mess right now. Take the Community Reinvestment Act for example.
Why is there a need to blame this mess on one person? There has been a slew of failures and mistakes that have led us to where we are today. Instead of focusing on the past and who should take the blame we should all be trying to find a solution. Hint: The passed bailout plan is not the solution.
The bailout won't help the economy anywhere it will just tell the greedy pig fuckers that have made this happen think they can keep pulling this shit and get away with it - the best thing
Mr T did - if only we were paying attentionwe can do as a world is draw out every penny from every bank in the world and bankrupt all of them. but that is impossible because even though I want that to happen I know doing so would lose me my house and everything I own when the people with millions under their beds sweep in and buy the whole fucking show.
You do realize that this financial crisis would have happened regardless of who was the president right? Bush may be responsible for a lackluster federal response, but the crisis has it's roots in average citizens defaulting on their mortgages, something he would have very little power to control."
IT was designed that way to make as much money as possible, and then get out at the last second. To suggest that it's actually regular citizens fault is absurd. It's the people who manipulate them for their own gain. This was predictable years ago. This is no surprise.
"The bailout won't help the economy anywhere it will just tell the greedy pig fuckers that have made this happen think they can keep pulling this shit and get away with it - the best thing Mr T did - if only we were paying attentionwe can do as a world is draw out every penny from every bank in the world and bankrupt all of them. but that is impossible because even though I want that to happen I know doing so would lose me my house and everything I own when the people with millions under their beds sweep in and buy the whole fucking show.
If only someone somewhere had seen this coming..."
While I believe the economy is in a state at the moment I don't believe the media is helping.
It's another dose of scare mongering - just like bird flu, just like the Millenium Bug, just like every other major news story that is blown out of all proportions.
By the news blowing this out of proportion, people are discouraged from spending which is only making the matter worse.
Then again I'm sure people in here know more than me and are ready to shoot me down. Seems logical to me though.
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