Looking to be an ESL teacher abroad.

I work a corporate 9-5. Though the job isn't bad, it is very difficult but time goes by really quickly, I realized it is not something I want to do forever. I was planning on going into ESL training last year but didn't have the money for certification. Now, I do but I don't know where to start. I know the GB community spans the globe and consists people from all walks of life. Is there somebody out there that could give some advice? I know the ESL industry is plagued with fraud, so I don't want to jump in blindly.

Countries I'm curious about are S. Korea, Thailand and China.

@dudeglove: I have read on companies just forgetting about their employees. I didn't know about the shitty (or gross) people in the ESL communities. I think the aspect of travel is a major factor in why I want to try this, but the whole thing sounds complicated and incredibly risky. I've read blogs from ESL teacher that seem like they genuinely enjoy it.

Can you explain how you got into the field? Any companies you recommend?

I am also not going to rush this. The idea is to probably take an online course while I'm still working my current job. If the ESL thing doesn't work than I'll work towards my teaching certification here.

Also, Thailand sounds like a bad idea now.

Thailand's not a bad place. You won't make much money teaching English there, but the scenery is second-to-none. You won't see the skeezy sex stuff unless you really go looking for it.

China I don't know much about. Salaries vary pretty widely depending on where you work. I knew a couple people working in Hong Kong making something like $6k a month, but the cost of living was so high, they ended up spending most of that to live.

Korea is probably still the most lucrative though the glory days of teaching a regular gig and having a bunch of (illegal) private students on the side and making $10k a month are gone. There are lots of steady jobs and the shady hagwon (after-school academy where most ESL occurs) owners are fewer these days. Public school jobs were plentiful, but they cut the budget pretty drastically a few years back and they only hire 1/4 of the people they used to. They're still not that hard to find. Public school jobs are steadier than hagwon jobs, and you won't get a crappy owner who doesn't pay you, but you will have significantly larger classes (hagwons are capped at 12 kids or something, public school, up to 35.) If a Korean ESL job doesn't offer paid accommodation, don't take it. It's standard, and anyone not offering it is usually some kind of scammer.

@sinusoidal: okay thanks. I might look into South Korea.

Are there other countries you recommend? I won't limit my scope to those countries listed.

@par1val: I'm moving to Japan to teach English to kids starting this summer actually. It's quite similar to the situation in S. Korea, though no paid accommodation (company housing though so you pay them, or they set you up with an apartment). I'm not super knowledgeable about how it is with the experience in Korea, but at least for Japan there are some pretty legitimate companies that have offices around the world you can easily go to to interview and make getting there a fairly easy thing. However Japan's been doing this kind of thing since the 80's so they have a very established EFL industry. Also other kinds of jobs working in public schools, kindergartens, international schools, etc. I do think it's quite a bit different than in China, Thailand or Vietnam, but fairly similar to S. Korea.

At least for Japan, the most legit way to get an alright job is through one of these companies that hire around the world, it's related to visa issues but actually going to Japan to get an interview is actually potentially more sketch, and waaaay more expensive because you'll have to live on a tourist visa for several months.

Also I think it's different with regards for TEFL certification with Japan (and maybe Korea) compared to China and other places; for them often your TEFL online course can help you find a legit job but for Japan it pretty much doesn't matter (most teachers don't have TEFL certifications or any prior teaching experience, actually).

Like others have mentioned, these are fairly easy jobs that pay anywhere from not great to decent for a kid straight out of college and it works out for a year or two abroad. After being established there (in Japan at least) there are a lot better opportunities that open up later though, better pay, benefits, etc. Maybe better kids or adults to teach.

I know quite a bit from several weeks of research on EFL in Japan, and I did do an online TEFL course which is pretty rare (i-to-i fwiw), but don't know too much about the other countries except that while they probably pay less the cost of living is cheaper. And Korea is pretty similar and should have paid accommodations.

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still going to really look into this. I'm not going to jump into anything yet without further research,

That's an unfair stereotype.

I haven't posted on this website in a while but I feel I should help out given my experience. In the past three years I have taught in Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Thailand, and Japan. I'm in the middle of my last year where I have saved about $20,000 to go home and get my masters in teaching so I can be a teacher in America. It has been an amazing experience. I've met tons of interesting people, traveled all over Asia, went to Tibet, ate some amazing food, and got to provide my students a valuable skill. But there's been some bad too.

First off, ask yourself a question: Why are you doing this? Are you doing this because you want to teach English, or are you looking for an escape? Have you ever taught anything? Can you check your native language and simplify it for new learners? Are you a good public speaker? If you're only looking to party and travel, don't do this. There's better ways to escape your current life. I don't mean to be rude, but as someone who teaches wonderful children who brighten my day every time I see them and actually tries hard to provide them a good education, it truly saddens me that people come here, get jobs, stay employed, and truly don't give a fuck about teaching. They do no prep, just play movies, and don't care. So if you're gonna teach, be a goddamn professional about it. Also, can you keep a room full of kids enthralled? Since you have zero experience, getting a job teaching only adults will be hard.

Second question: You SURE you want to do this? How attached to your current lifestyle are you? Do you need your starbucks in the morning? Do you need that new game the moment it comes out? How adaptable are you? I can't tell you how many people I've seen come abroad all bright eyed, then they realize that, SURPRISE, life isn't the same here as it is in America, and they bolt because they can't handle it. Also, do you have any debt? Because sending money home from abroad can be an incredibly complicated process.

Next question: What is more important to you: Having a good experience or making money? If you care about experience above all, I cannot stress enough, TEACH AT A REAL SCHOOL. A public school is best. You don't deal with rich kids or crazy parents, you're in an education first environment, you'll have less classes, it's Monday-Friday 8-4, and when the school is out, you're on vacation, so you have ample travel time. With that said, if making coin is more important, then a language center will make you more money, but you will have a weird schedule, teach more classes, it's higher pressure due to shitty kids (or adults) and crazed parents. I really can't stress this enough: Work in a public school.

As far as location goes, this is entirely subjective, but I'll go over where I've taught. Cambodia is a cool place, but the money is really bad and it's an incredibly poor country. You can make around $1000 USD enough, so you won't save much money, but you can live like a goddamn king there for $1000 a month. I was only there a couple of months because it's where my TESOL training was. Then I was in Vietnam (Saigon), and I loved it. The money is alright, you'll probably make around $1500-$2000, and, again, Vietnam is super SUPER cheap, so you can save decent coin and live well. I was making $1500 a month, and I was living in a seven floor sharehouse with a Jacuzzi and a fitness room. Living there and all my expenditures was around $500 a month. The food is amazing, it's a beautiful country, and Saigon is a VERY western city, so the things at home you might miss you'll be able to get there. That's true of most of the big cities. I worked at a language center there, and it was a good one, but my schedule was nuts. I had tuesday-thursday off, Monday and Friday I taught one class, then on Saturday and Sunday I was in the office for like 13 hours. It was nuts. But I really liked the country and kinda wish I had stayed longer.

The whole reason I was there was to wait until I got a job in Japan, and I'm here to tell you: DO NOT TEACH IN JAPAN. I cannot stress this enough, it was a miserable experience. I worked at a language center, and I had 33 classes a week, which is an absurd workload. They stuck me in the middle of nowhere, my bosses were rude and spied on me, you have to wear a suit every day (I'm not a suit guy), and here's the thing about Japan that you will not find in other countries (except maybe South Korea): You are expendable there. Because it's Japan, and it's a nice country, and because of the culture, there is a line out the door of people who want your job because they want to live in anime land (also you're considered an even bigger weirdo in Japan if you like games and anime as an adult than you are in America), so they can overwork you, treat you like dirt, etc. Also you have to pay for your own rent, high taxes, health insurance, etc. Your take home pay is enough to essentially live a lower middle class Japanese lifestyle, but saving money is surprisingly difficult because it's an expensive country. Also raises aren't very common, so expect to make the same 220,000-250,000JPY en perpetuity. I quit that job to work in a public school, and while that was a better environment, it has issues too. First off, you're not a real teacher in Japanese public schools, you are an ALT: Assistant Language Teacher. So you don't really teach. You just stand in the corner and occasionally read sentences for the students to repeat and grade papers. You are a glorified tape recorder. It is incredibly boring, and their English is SO BAD. The worst of any country I've been in. The teachers were nice, as was my principal, and I liked hanging out with the kids (Junior high school), but it was just about the most unfulfilling job I've ever had. The Japanese English teachers can't speak English for shit, so they can't teach it for shit. They spend so much wasted time in Japanese schools learning English, and it's a bummer because I knew the whole time the way they were teaching it was wrong and I could do a much better job (and have more fun), but going to the boss and saying 'This is all fucked, fix it', is about the most Un Japanese thing you can do, so DON'T DO THAT. They treat you with kids gloves, don't give you any real responsibility, and due to the Japanese work culture, you're expected to look busy for hours on end when in reality you have nothing to do. It's incredibly dull, so I left during the winter holiday. Look, I know Japan seems awesome on the outset, and it can be. By all means vacation there, it's a beautiful place. Go to Akihabara, go to Super Potato, climb Mt. Fuji, see a baseball game, eat some sushi, have a baller time. But living there and working there is NOT a baller time. I have not worked in South Korea myself, but from what I have heard talking to many expats who worked there, their experience was similar, so based on hearsay I've heard from others, I wouldn't recommend South Korea.

Then I went to Thailand, which was frankly a mistake. Anyone who lives in Thailand as an expat for more than six months is a seedy motherfucker that frankly you want nothing to do with. If your goal is to do drugs and party while teaching abroad, go here. Pattaya is legitimately hell on Earth. Working there was fine (I was only working for the summer at an International school while I waited to go to China for the start of the school year. The visa process is a bitch), but as you can imagine it is rather hot, and it was just about the most unorganized place I have ever been. Class schedules were changed on a daily basis. Also the pay is not great. Enough to live well there, but not super great.

By far, my favorite place to teach has been China. You'll hear a lot of Korean and Japanese teachers talking about how the good ol' days are gone, and they're still going strong in China. The demand to learn English is super high, and they will pay a premium for good, trained, native teachers. You can negotiate heavily because the demand far exceeds the supply. Also things like a free apartment, contract bonuses, and paying for your flight back home are all commonplace and I would not take a job without those provisions. You can make good money and save a lot because everything is cheap (Unless you're going to the expat bars or eating a lot of international food). I'm working in Luoyang, which is a big city but not Beijing or Shanghai, so I don't have the same western options as you would there, but in the big cities any comfort of home you want, you can get. Also they have Taobao (Think Amazon.com for China), so ANYTHING you want to get, you can. I got a Switch delivered to my door in two days. The people are super, super nice, the food is amazing, there's so much history to see, and traveling through China is wonderful. I did a grand tour for a month and traveled all through it and it was the greatest experience of my life. Also Chinese work culture is super chill. I wear a tracksuit to work every day, if I need to leave a little early I can, and if I don't have a class, I can watch basketball or do whatever in the office while me and the other Chinese teachers all exchange fruits and watch Chinese soap operas. My boss is also a super cool dude who takes me and the other foreign teachers out to eat every month, we went on a holiday retreat where he rented a resort house and we went golfing, and if I need something, he takes care of me. BY FAR, China has been my favorite place to teach. Don't fret the politics, just don't talk about it, most people here don't want to talk about it, and get a VPN. It's not that big of a deal. They like Americans, and they will be very thankful that you chose to be a guest in their Country. Cannot recommend teaching in China enough.

Also, this is something I need to stress: DO NOT MAKE THIS A CAREER. This should be a fun thing you do for a couple of years then go home. I agree with the assessment of most expats from the previous poster: Creepy, sex crazed, drunken losers make up a large percentage of that population, which casts a dark light on the minority of people (which I would like to include myself in) who actually give a shit about their jobs and are doing this for adventure. You;ll meet plenty of people like this when you arrive, and the older ones who have been in the game a little too long...trust me, you don't wanna be that. Now, granted, if you are one of these people who care, your employer will probably ADORE you and do anything to keep you, including a huge raise at the end of your next contract. My current employer is gonna pay me 30,000RMB (about $4,500 a month, tax free, free decent apartment) to stay next year, and I'm gonna cash out and go home. I got this crazy raise because of things that I found pretty pedestrian: I give a shit, show up on time, participate in events, don't show up drunk, and don't get in trouble. This is an unfortunate rarity in this business.

I say go for it, go to China, save some good coin, actually care about education, have an amazing time, don't do anything stupid, then come home after a couple of years. I've been burned with jobs, had my college diploma stolen, had my passport held hostage, and was once interrogated by the Thailand police and had to bribe my way out of a situation because my school didn't file my paperwork. Stay safe, do your research, ask lots of questions, and any demands you have that they agree to, GET IT IN WRITING. While there's some scumbags in this business, there are good people too who actually care about education, try to lump yourself with them. I realize a lot of this has sounded negative, but this has been a truly amazing experience and one of the best decisions of my life. If you can commit to being a good teacher, do it.

Wow that got long. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

@jcj180: Thanks for your post. This is something that I will take seriously. That's just my nature when it comes to work. Heck, I don;t even drink on work nights because I like being 100% the next work day, it's just I want to experience something cool while I'm still kind of young (I'm 24 going on 25).

Do you have any tips on what to look for in ESL agencies/ companies? Any companies you recommend?

@jcj180 said:

This is a completely unfair assessment. In fact, the creepy, sex crazed drunks are typically the newbs who are over here teaching briefly for shits and giggles. They are by far in the minority, but they're a loud one because every time one of them gets caught doing something illegal, the requirements for the rest of us to continue working here get more strict. I know more than a few people who've made a career out of ESL and abhor these idiots for the way they make the rest of us look. It doesn't help that there are quite a few news outlets that love to paint us as the root of all evil in Asia. Not to mention openly racist groups like AES (Anti English Spectrum) in Korea that literally stalk westerners - typically in club districts in Seoul - and try to "catch them in the act". Imagine that, people drinking and looking for sex in an area full of night clubs and prostitutes.

There are something like 10000 westerners teaching English in Korea, the percentage of whom are creepy, sex crazed drunks is no higher than in any of their home countries. It's probably lower because you need a college degree to teach here which (well, used to be maybe) a sign of at least a modicum of maturity.

@par1val: Cool, not being a drunk will get you SO FAR in this field. You'll need a TESOL certification. Now, there's a lot of ones online where you can get one, but I would actually recommend paying a little more and getting a good one that has some actual in-class teaching experience. I used a company called LanguageCorps, and there are others like it where you actually go to a country to study, get some hands on training, do some volunteer teaching, and get legit feedback. It's a little more expensive, yes, but you get hands on experience and you get a little leg up on living abroad.

As far as good companies go, Dave's ESL Cafe is a good route to find a job. They have plenty of listings for plenty of places all over, and they have a job board just for China. Really, what you want to do is this (And this is for China. Other countries this may not work), go to Dave's ESL Cafe to get some contacts. A lot of the listings on there aren't companies at all, they're agents who set you up with companies. They get paid if you show up. Now, they will be VERY pushy in looking to get you to accept a position, but STAND FIRM. If you have no experience, if you came to China, and you wanted to work in a normal public school setting, I would ask for at least 10,000RMB (12,000 if you wanna press your luck), free apartment, tax free, paid vacation, and a free flight home in the summer (and free flight back if you renew). They have on hand hundreds of jobs, do some research on locations, figure out where you want to live, and go with it. School year starts in September, and now would be a good time to start planning this.

Now, this is the part that sucks, but it's an undeniable fact of the business. Your skin color and appearance do play a role in how hireable you are and how much you can make. Tall, young, handsome, blue eyed, American blondes make more money than anyone else. If you are that, ask for 15,000RMB. Please do not perceive this as racist on my part. In my training crew, the best teacher was this awesome dude. He had a great personality, and he was great with kids. He was also overweight, black, and had a lazy eye. Guess which one of us got hired last. It's a damn shame, but equal opportunity employment hasn't hit east Asia yet. Frankly, if you yourself are Asian, you're gonna have real trouble finding work in this field.

@jcj180: Well I'm Hispanic so we'll see what happens there. Thanks for letting me know though.

I know teaching English in Japan is super popular. I like this guy's take on it: https://www.youtube.com/user/DaveTrippin

He's pretty open about the good and the bad teaching and living there as a foreigner.

So I have one last question if anyone can answer it. What kind of financial preparation do you do before you start? It seems like if you choose the right job, it seems like they cover mostly everything. Also, I know I said last question, would my heritage , Hispanic as stated before, be a significant barrier to getting employed. Key word is significant.

@par1val: I came to Korea in 2004 with $300 Canadian and had no troubles. Housing was provided, so all that needed to cover was food for a month. Times have changed a bit in Korea. I'd bring at least $500 here now. The more you can bring, the safer you'll be. Enough to cover a plane ticket home should things go very awry is recommended.

Being Hispanic shouldn't prevent you from getting a job. Unless you're really dark-skinned, the average southeast Asian won't even be able to tell you're not just "American" anyway. Level of attractiveness goes a long way to mitigate race these days as well since Asians are seeing more and more non-white faces in the ubiquitous American cinema.

@par1val: I think you'll be okay as Hispanic, as long as you're not super duper dark and your accent isn't too thick. I know a lot of latino people in the field and they do just fine. Really, it's black people that scare them, and Asians are too samey (God I feel goddamn horrible writing that, but it's really what they think), so as far as ethnicity goes, you'll probably be okay.

As far as the money, they hinges entirely on what country you go to. If you're going to Vietnam Cambodia, $1,000 will probably get you through the first month if you skimp by, factoring in the first month and deposit on your apartment. Thailand is the same thing, but it's a teeny bit more expensive, so maybe bring $1200. Also, like a previous poster said, having a get-out-of-jail-free plane ticket amount in your back pocket for emergencies might be beneficial. In China, you can get by on 4000 RMB a month ($650) easy for one month while you wait for your first paycheck, but these are all rock bottom estimations. You always spend more in your first couple weeks. You're abroad for the first time, so bring some extra to live a little while you settle in. Also your housing will be free (But I'd ask about pictures of the apartment before you agree to anything. My first job here involved me living in a hole). Korea is a little more expensive, but they cover the housing too from what I hear.

Now, Japan is an entirely different thing. I wouldn't go to Japan unless I had $4-$5,000 depending on the situation. Again, the quality of benefits there has gone up in smoke due to high supply, so most jobs don't feature free accommodation. So, if you have to get your own place (Also your options are limited as any local apartment complex that isn't part of a chain like LeoPalace won't take you because you're a dirty gaijin who is bringing drugs), be prepared to drop 2-3K on the initial deposit, first two months rent, and my favorite, key money, which is a free gift of a wad of cash to your landlord that you'll never get back. Then, remember, you're in a very expensive country, and if you start work on September 1st, you will not get your first paycheck until October 25th. I don't know why this is, but it's true everywhere there. 25th of next month is the payday. I think it's a ploy to keep you from pulling a runner.

Hope this helps, good luck duder.