Morality Check regarding using Adblock

So I started using an addon for the AdBlock extension called AdNauseam. If AdBlock hides an ad, AdNauseam clicks that ad while it's hidden in the background. Basically this does three things, strips ads from websites, charges an advertiser for a click even though you didn't see their ad, and if used by enough people, undermines the reliability of tracking by filling ad metrics with useless junk data.

So on one hand, sites like Giantbomb get money from people that would otherwise not see any ad revenue, also is it really any different than someone mindlessly clicking an add then closing the tab without viewing it? On the other hand, if enough people start using this, traditional ads become useless and it kills an entire revenue stream. Some might even say that this combination of extensinos might even be click fraud.

Whats your opinion?

My opinion is FUCK ADS and this is a great iniatiative. When browsing GiantBomb on mobile, Google Playstore opens up at random with a mobile F2P game showing up. That really crossed the line. Getting bought by CBSi was the worst thing that happened site-wise and reliquinshed total control that spiraled into an uncontrollable growth of ads. Furthermore, there are ads for medication. Faux medication that has not been FDA approved. Thanks giantbomb for giving intrusive ads AND quacks a platform.

My subscription briefly lapsed a handful of days ago and that short amount of time that I had to navigate this site with ads was incredibly unpleasant. Ads would fuck with the layout, play sound constantly without my permission, and as noted, were of questionable subject matter. It got to the point where I couldn't even keep the tab open at all because the ads would constantly play audio. I've never used an adblocking program but I certainly don't blame people for doing so.

So what happens when nobody wants to buy adds on giantbomb because too many people are doing this?

@twinsun: Even more content goes behind the pay wall and people complain about that.

@thatpinguino: Wouldn't be much different for regular members than it is now. Occasionally a Quick Look appears and that's about it. Most of the time they forget games are released on a weekly basis.

I wonder what happens if that AdNauseam clicks an ad that installs a keylogger or some other malware to your pc. There are some malicious things on the internet that might escape your virus protections gaze due to being new.

@icemo: That's what I'm worried about.

If this addon works then I say great, but I wouldn't feel bad even just with adblock. As others have mentioned, the ads on GB are sadly on such a shitty level, and make browsing the site so much shittier, that I don't see how anyone could fault you for adblocking. In any case I like GB enough that I have subbed but always adblocked prior to that.

@monetarydread: I edited your thread title to be a bit more descriptive. If you want to change it again, feel free, but we ask that users not have to click on a thread just to find out what it's about. Thanks.

So another site I use Adblock on started showing me ads today. But it's from something called "Gamer Network". They're deemed "acceptable" ads aimed at gamers, which considering the ads were for Magicka 2 is pretty accurate. Apparently it's being run by the Adblock guy's themselves.

I feel like an auto-clicker could cause all sorts of bad situations.

As for GB, I hate to say it since I like supporting the site when I can, but AdBlock has become a must. The site is next to unusable without it, and hideous to boot.

@trafalgarlaw: And the reason there is so much more premium content now is that non-intrusive banner ads don't pay the bills. Between auto-blocker shutting down ads entirely and no one clicking on non-intrusive banner ads, the non-intrusive stuff doesn't generate much revenue. So the marketing arms of companies like CBSI have had to resort to selling pop-ups, auto playing videos, and auto-playing audio to make enough money to keep the lights on. Sites that were unable to adapt to people using ad blocker have been dying left and right.

Basically people are getting a crappier experience because they aren't willing and/or able to pay for a better one.

I'm at least glad that GB offers a premium option that removes all of the BS. I haven't seen an ad on this site in years and I don't have to worry about stiffing people of their ad revenue.

@jesus_phish: Really? Sounds weird to me. I hate ads as a concept, as an idea, because I think it undermines content and change it to maximize revenue. That the ads are tailored for people that play videogames don't make it better at all, so hearing the adblock people are behind this is bizarre.

I understand why journalists working for game websites would defend ads, but I think we should also realize that the ads business model is destroying longform articles over stuff like videos and buzzfeed-y stuff. I'm happy to support patreon when I can, as it seems a way better model to me.

I will continue to use adblock and have absolutely no moral problem doing so for as long as ads are intrusive bullshit that take away from the site itself.

@fear_the_booboo: That the Adblock guys are doing it seems weird to me too. I always thought they were steadfast opposed to ads, to the point they ran campaigns so they could buy ad spaces to advertise their software in hopes that more people would install it. You can disable their whitelisted ad's though, it's just on by default.

Maybe this was their plan all along though. Get enough people to install adblock then go to the ad companies and say "we'll show your ads to our users as long as we approve them".

All the people saying they use adblock now due to intrusive ads makes me wonder how many were using adblock before and are part of the problem. Guess this is why we can't have nice things.

Didn't realize it's become so bad here being a subscriber for over a year now.

Fuck ads. I'm a total supporter of Adblock, and if I like your website or content, I'll pay a premium (as I have here, and as i have for a couple patreons and a podcast i buy by the episode)

I only wish there was a way to install an ad blocker on iOS without jailbreaking

I use Adblock as much for the security benefits as I do to block annoying ads. I don't mind basic ads, but it's getting to the point where those don't seem to exist anymore and it's always intrusive, obnoxious ads.

If I am given the opportunity to pay for a site and get an ad-free experience, I will usually do it. I'm not sure why more sites aren't doing this type of thing. I've paid for GB for years now without even a second thought, and there's lots of other sites where I would do the same if they offered it.

Seems shitty to me. Just another form of theft on the internet that people don't think of as theft because it's so easy to do. Just because a business model is shitty/busted doesn't mean you get to circumvent it to get to the product.

@starvinggamer: yeah, no. Using adblock is literally nothing like theft.

@krullban: You are accessing an online product while circumventing the way that product is paid for. How is that not anything like theft?

The argument will be something along the lines: "I don't take any physical product, the Website is still there." ... It's the same argument people use to justify piracy of games/movies/music. While it may not fit the definition of "theft", acting this way is questionable at best from a moral point of view.

@ripelivejam: Ads are intrusive by definition. Nobody would pay for them if nobody would see them. But then you're forced to have an animated ad in the corner of the screen while reading an article about something. Even the smallest ad would not work if it weren't intrusive in some capacity.

I'm not telling you to start using adblock, but it's more complicated than just "you want to give money or not to a website". The ads business model thrives on stuff like buzzfeed and watchmojo.com. I remember that time when Polygon told they would not do as much longform articles, litterally the only good things they did, because the investment did not make as much sense as covering news. One click is worth the same amount of money whether the article is long or not, well-made or not, thus the ad business model promotes small, easy-to-make, content that brings a maximum of clicks. It's not a good thing, but as long as it stays reliable it's gonna stay.

I'm not saying that people that use adblock are revolutionnary and helps bring the evil marketing company down either, as it is clearly not the case.

Ad Blocker is one of the best Apps you can get for any browser, when I’m updating or using a new device I install Ad Blocker. The only site I would like to support is GB and I do that by subscribing.

The way I look at it, Marketing is becoming more and more of a detriment to society in every way possible.

The general population accepts the intrusiveness and obnoxiousness of adds online and offline because you're getting something "free" out of it. However, considering the Marketing budgets for many companies have greatly surpassed operational and R&D budgets, guess who pays for that marketing budget in the end? The consumer who thinks they're getting free content, but buys products with marked up prices in stores and online. And not only do they pay for it in price, but also in quality. If marketing was minimal, the great products would get the attention and sales as opposed to the products with $100 million marketing budget.

I'm all for paying for quality content and ads taking a few steps back (general side banner ads are fine) if it means I'm only paying for goods and services when I buy a product rather than a flashy ad campaign.

Though I know how unpopular that idea would be, what with so many people making a living off marketing these days.

/end rant

There's no assumed contract between a website and the end user that says "I want to view your content, therefore I must watch your ads". Get that shit out of here.

I used to not use adblock, then people like Arumba decided to spam out as many videos a day as possible without just consolidating them into a few big videos. Fuck that shit. I feel the same way about adblock that I feel about subscribing to people on twitch, if you can do something for free why would you pay for it? That doesn't hold for everyone on twitch just almost everyone, sometimes it's probably worthwhile if it's for charity or what have you. As long as it's not for a charity of one.

@2headedninja: The "product" in this case is basically using DVR, which last I checked almost everyone uses.

Fuck ads.

I don't use Adblock on sites I actively like and use daily, for example cinemasnob, gamespot and destructoid, but otherwise I use it without much moral quarrel.

Just like when I switch channels when ads come on or skip through them when I watch something I've recorded? It may not be morally sound but it certainly ain't theft.

@civid: @teaoverlord: @fredchuckdave: @hippie_genocide: @justkamtoo: So then how many sites are you willing to pay for? Because if people keep using ad blocker and other ad disabling software, then I wouldn't be surprised if all of the high quality, niche content on the web went behind a paywall. If ads don't pay the bills, then the consumer has to pay more directly.

@thatpinguino: Where is it stated I'm not allowed to use the websites content unless I pay them?

The Internet is supposed to be a platform for freedom. Unless there is a contract that I have to agree to that I'm not allowed to use a website unless I give the content creator money, I'm not stealing anything.

I'll pay the content creator if I feel they deserve it and I like them. I have no obligation to pay them on a platform that emphasizes freedom of expression unless it's otherwise stated that I have to pay them to use the content.

If I download giant bomb premium videos without paying, is that stealing? Yes it is. If I use adblock on a site that doesn't tell me "give me money or you can't use this" is that stealing? No it's not. I'm not stealing anything by using adblock. Their website is free, their business model for gaining revenue isn't my problem. If I felt like they deserved money I would give it to them. Which I do give money to giant bomb. Just not through ads.

i'm a subscriber, that's how i support the bomb.

but i think it's misrepresenting reality to claim that blocking ads will be the demise of media. people have been muting televisions, fast-forwarding their vcrs, and skipping magazine and newspaper spreads since inception. adblocking is just the technologically appropriate response for the given medium.

the idea of an unskippable ad is terrifying- just watch the second episode of 'black mirror' to see that idea drawn to it's logical conclusion.

@thatpinguino: That's a very doom and gloom scenario and would only happen in the case that 85-90% of people used adblock or something, as opposed to 10-20%. I don't really care about paywalls in general as long as they're not straight up retarded like Something Awful's (i.e. pay to get unbanned).

@krullban: Its not stated anywhere, I just think what you are doing is morally wrong and damaging for sites. If you consider someone's work worth reading, then it should be worth paying for. I'm pretty astounded that you think that how a site makes money isn't your problem. If the site doesn't make money, then it shuts down and you lose the content it created. That should matter to you.

Also I would love to see how the "If you are offering something for free, then how you make money isn't my problem" argument holds up on a clerk at a free sample stand after you take all of the samples and walk out of the store.

"This restriction includes ... interfering with or otherwise circumventing the Video Player in any manner that enables users to view Content without: (i) visibly displaying ... all surrounding elements (including ... any advertising ... ) of the webpage where the Video Player is located"

"Without limiting any other provision in these Terms, you agree not to do the following, or assist others to do the following:

• Remove, modify, disable, block or otherwise impair any advertising in connection with the Services"

I don't know...I just turn off adblock on sites that I don't find creepy or something. I've been a subscriber to GB since the day it started so that's never been an issue with me on GB.

If or when I can't afford Giant Bomb's premium sub, I believe I will stop using Giant Bomb altogether. The free experience is not appealing as it is.

@fredchuckdave: Here is an article from Destructoid about how half of their users use ad block. It was written 2 years ago as of yesterday. Destructoid also hemorrhaged talent shortly thereafter. I doubt that was a coincidence.

@mellotronrules: But people pay for Cable and satellite TV. Most of the TV people consume is premium content by default, either coming in via Netflix, premium TV subscriptions, or other streaming services with unskippable ads. There are only a handful of channels that are truly ad supported and they are so big that they can get by simply due to their eyeball share.

Classified ads and print ads actually did work enough to be worth it for advertisers, even if 90% of the people reading a news paper tried to ignore them entirely. Looking away from an ad is fundamentally different than making it so an ad never appears in the first place.

I hate ads too. However, I know that if too many people block all of them, then a lot of the sites I read won't be able to pay their employees what they deserve. That moment of annoyance is worth helping a site stay afloat.

Blocking ads is not the demise of media, but it might be the demise of high-quality, free gaming sites and other niche publications.

I think you're greatly overvaluing the value of an ad click. The market value of an ad click is way less than say, the market value of 10000 page (ad) views, which is a million times less valuable than the market value of a preroll ad on videos. I've seen reports saying that banner ads receive 9 legitimate clicks per 100000 views. If the same IP is always clicking the same ad they are gonna be able to strip that junk data out easily.

As an aside, I have never had an ad on Giant Bomb autoplay audio (using Chrome, Windows 8, Canada). Sometimes if I have a couple tabs open there will be enough resources hogged that my fan is a jet engine and I need to close those tabs.

@thatpinguino: Okay, I stand corrected. However I think as long as the internet is a big business eventually the government/google/someone will legislate something against adblock, when that happens then it can be some shady underground organization that we're making it out to be. Granted shortly thereafter the entire internet will likely be regulated, which is perfectly fine by me.

On point one: not really. Often, something is worth it only because its free. Plenty of things I would never partake in if I had to pay money for it.

On the second point, that has far more to do with how invested someone is to a website. Why should it matter to me that a website gets shut down and content is reduced in general if I don't care about the site itself? And how do you get me to about a website aside from producing poor content? Why make the general experience of being on the site poor through things like intrusive advertisement.

To put it more simply, why should I care about a website if it does not care about my enjoyment of it?

On point three, going to Costco for a shopping trip, and sampling every free sample stand without buying any of the products is something vast numbers of people do every day. There's someone doing it right now.

No one here is really in a position to be preaching to people about the importance of ads when they have no idea how much revenue GB is making through premium subs. For all we know that covers the cost of everything on this site and then some.

The first tweet pictured in that article says everything: if your livelihood is based around what is considered an annoyance to everyone, and you yourself do not produce anything that is considered important on a larger scale, consumers have no obligation to support you.

@turambar: So what if it impacted a site you liked? Like say how Polygon had to cut back its long features because they didn't generate enough revenue? Or how Destructoid lost many of its senior writers?

Is the mild annoyance of seeing an ad worse than losing the writing? Is your hatred of an auto-playing video deeper than your desire to read quality content? Because right now there is almost no money in long-form game writing.

On your Costco point, you have to pay a fee to even get into Costco in the first place so every person sampling is already a "premium member." Costco is big enough to absorb those losses and they offset them with membership fees. If you pulled that free sample stunt at a small business, I doubt the owner would be too happy.

Look at things like Patreon, though. Greg Miller, a well liked games analyst/writer, and a few of his friends were able to launch Kinda Funny and quit their day jobs at IGN. How?

They made content people liked, and then asked people to chip in a few bucks a month for it. Now? They're pulling in nearly $19,000 a month, or about $57,000 a year per person (without factoring in hosting costs or other such things) and can still offer the base MP3 of their podcasts for free.

There are ways to support the content you like, and we don't have to live in a world where we're constricted by ads.

The people that think they are better or more righteous than others for not using AdBlock make me want to use it more.

I'm sorry man I read this entire post in Seinfeld's tone at the elevator in this episode:

@ottoman673: Greg Miller has about a decade of experience and he worked for the largest gaming site on the internet. He is the exception, not the rule. A new or less known writer could never pull off what he is doing.

Also that Patreon salary isn't actually that much money after Patreon's cut, hosting fees, and taxes. It might support him and his team, but I don't see how you could support multiple people or a family on that money. That's not good for the long term health of the Patreon model.

@thatpinguino: Except, as I said earlier, Polygon did cut back their long features because they don't make sense with the ads business model. They take too much time to make and don't get as much clicks as news or small articles.

It's a false assumption that the ads business model is not working anymore, it is working, but it gives more power to cheap content. Buzzfeed, watchmojo and youtubers like Pewdipie are striving because the ads business model is working.

It's no surprise that the best content you can get is often hidden behind subscription or patreons. Paying for something means that perceived quality of the spectator is important, whereas revenue based on click makes it that it does not matter as long as the user clicks.

Again, I'm not advocating for adblock, but I see ads as a business model as an extremely bad thing, as it changes the way we consume content.

Edit: I should add, Polygon is always boasting their numbers on twitter. They're doing better than ever before, way better than they did when they had their long features.