My CPU is nearly 10 years old, so I want to upgrade but that means new motherboard and RAM at a minimum. I plan on keeping my GPU, SSD, HDDs. I may be able to keep my case and PSU but this is all 10 years old, so it has "quirks".
Current Specs:
CPU - i7-2600K 3.2Ghz
RAM - 16GB 1600Mhz
GPU - 1080 TI
The CPU is the starting point. What would people suggest? I was looking at the Intel Core i7-10700K but I'm not sure if I need the latest generation. Price is definitely an important factor, though I still want to stick with Intel. RAM doesn't need to be anything fancy. Motherboard I'm really unsure what features I need. My potential build came to £750 but I need to cut that down significantly.
This is going to be asked, so I might as well ask it - is there a specific reason for sticking with Intel? Because I was pretty staunch about sticking with Intel until I bought a Ryzen 2700X CPU and got way more than I would have gotten with an Intel CPU at that price. If you're just doing gaming and you've got a budget you need to cut down significantly, it's worth looking into unless you're dead set against AMD.
EDIT: Also, are you going to need a new cooler for any CPU you buy? I don't know if a 2600K and a 10700K use the same socket.
@justin258: I chose Intel just because I'm more comfortable using them. I don't know how it would affect how I use my computer if I were to switch. I also have no idea what I'm looking at when it comes to AMD numbering systems or what the cores to frequencies mean for performance.
I will need a new cooler. I used the stock intel cooler for 8 years and only added a third party one a few years ago.
@justin258: I chose Intel just because I'm more comfortable using them. I don't know how it would affect how I use my computer if I were to switch. I also have no idea what I'm looking at when it comes to AMD numbering systems or what the cores to frequencies mean for performance.
AMD CPUs are fully x86 compatible. There's no difference.
That said, if the vast majority of your PC use is gaming, you might as well stick with Intel. Where the current generation of AMD blows Intel away is video encoding or anything that really takes advantage of CPU multithreading. Games aren't really in that category.
And, as ever, what really matters for games is the video card. You could get something like the i5-10600K and spend the money you saved on a better GPU.
@frytup: I used to do a lot of video editing but it's been so long that it would be a feeble excuse to say I still need it. Plus I just got a second hand 1080ti so I won't be upgrading that any time soon. Upgrading the 10 year old CPU and RAM is the priority.
I haven't updated in a while but the intel chips are usually pretty comparable to the last gen with pricing so I would just get the latest i7 or i5 K version. Amd seems good now too, but it will probably be easier to upgrade drivers without having to reinstall the os if you don't want to if you upgrade to another intel board (but it's probably better to do so anyway)
@oursin_360: it's a 10 year old chip, I would definitely need a new motherboard and that would mean reinstalling the OS. I just did that though so it's not a big deal.
The i7 10700K just looks like overkill even if you do some video editing here and there, so a 3rd Gen Ryzen 5 seems more reasonable for over $150 less; even the Ryzen 7 3700X will get you more bang for the buck compared to the 10700K, or my 9900K for that matter. The motherboard is also humble compared to other options, but PCIe Gen 4, which is currently an AMD exclusive, gives you more bandwith between the CPU and GPU (and other PCIe devices), which basically means mo powa babeh! Ryzen likes faster RAM than their Intel equivalents so going with 16GBs of DDR4 3200 seems suitable. 32GBs is technically within the budget but I haven't noticed RAM amount being too much of a factor with Vegas Pro, Premiere or OBS; I only go above 16GB in Photoshop when working with very large images. And prices for power supplies kinda suck right now, but I've heard good things about EVGA's Supernova line, and 750W should give you enough breathing room for an eventual GPU upgrade.
@facelessvixen: Thanks! I also do a lot of photoshop, usually high DPI projects for print. I currently have 16GB so I'd be fine with that but 32GB seems overkill.
As for PSU, I currently have a 750W modular, but I don't know if I should reuse it. Any reason I shouldn't?
@alistercat: I can't say that I've used a PSU for ten years. But if your computer isn't showing any "signs and symptoms of a dying power supply" like random blue screens and whatnot, then it's just something to keep in mind and keep a newer PSU in a wishlist just in case.
Oh, and one more thing about CPU suggestions since we use our systems for similar purposes: My 9900K gets to about 40% to 50% average usage at 4.7 GHz when recording with OBS at 3440 x 1440, 60 frames, 22 Mbps and software/CPU encoding with Photoshop running with no performance hit or significant compromise in video quality (similar results for most games but recording at 1080p and 18 Mbps since 1440p 22 Mbps recording is a bit much for some of them). So if you have a use for OBS, it might be worth going for the Ryzen 7 3700X, otherwise the Ryzen 5 3600X should still be a club banger.
By coincidence, I have exactly the same current setup as OP, and also considering upgrading. Is there any great advantage long term on choosing a LGA 1200 board over say an 1151, assuming I'm sticking with intel.
From a purely gaming setup am I going to reap much benefit from Intel Core i7-10700K over say Intel Core i7 9700K?
Obviously getting a new GPU is the final end goal here, but I'd like to get my board and chip up to a snuff 1st.
Also If anyone has any case recommendations let me know, I currently have an Antec 1200, which in truth is probably fine, other than all its front USB, sata ports and audio jacks are busted. Been eyeing up some NXZT cases, and I'm keen to finally pull the trigger on liquid cooling.
@avantegardener: If my quick little bench of Assassin's Creed Odyssey with a 9900K and 2080 Ti at 1440 ultrawide with a mix of very high and placebo ultra is any indication:
Having 8 less threads with the 9700K would concern me, but it probably won't be a big deal in practice. Decent frame rates and frame pacing (thanks to G-sync) between 40% and 70% CPU utilization.
Oh, and, don't mind the film grain. That's ReShade. I like film grain.
By coincidence, I have exactly the same current setup as OP, and also considering upgrading. Is there any great advantage long term on chose a LGA 1200 board over say an 1151, assuming I'm sticking with intel.
From a purely gaming setup am I going to reap many benefits from Intel Core i7-10700K over say Intel Core i7 9700K?
Obviously getting a new GPU is the final end goal here, but I'd like to get my board and chip up to a snuff 1st.
Also If anyone has any case recommendations let me know, I currently have an Antec 1200, which in truth is probably fine, other than all its front USB, sata ports and audio jacks are busted. Been eyeing up some NXZT cases, and I'm keen to finally pull the trigger on liquid cooling.
The LGA 1200 is Intel's newest socket design, so that's probably your best bet long term. Between those two CPUs, you may get a slight benefit with the 10700k due to more threads and hyperthreading support. (This assumes you can find both for a similar price, of course.)
As far as cases go, I've always liked the clean look of Fractal Design's stuff, especially the Define cases. For something a little fancier, there's Phanteks; my current PC is in an Evolv X case, but if you want to stick to a full tower build, there's the Phanteks Enthoo 719 (also called the Luxe 2 in some early reviews), which has some pretty impressive liquid cooling support.
@facelessvixen: Thank you for all the information. It has be so helpful. I kept out of the loop on purpose to avoid temptation. What do you think of the i5-10600K? Reading performance reviews it sounds like it gives almost the same game performance as the 10700K but because it's an i5, less performance on work tasks. Since you also use it for video and photoshop, how huge will the difference be between the i5 and i7?
i5-10600K is significantly cheaper than both the 3700X and 10700K which is why I'm suddenly drawn to it.
Edit: Nevermind. There are too many downsides. The Ryzen 7 3700X still looks appealing.
I've settled on these parts. I hate to use Amazon but they're so much cheaper.
By coincidence, I have exactly the same current setup as OP, and also considering upgrading. Is there any great advantage long term on chose a LGA 1200 board over say an 1151, assuming I'm sticking with intel.
From a purely gaming setup am I going to reap many benefits from Intel Core i7-10700K over say Intel Core i7 9700K?
Obviously getting a new GPU is the final end goal here, but I'd like to get my board and chip up to a snuff 1st.
Also If anyone has any case recommendations let me know, I currently have an Antec 1200, which in truth is probably fine, other than all its front USB, sata ports and audio jacks are busted. Been eyeing up some NXZT cases, and I'm keen to finally pull the trigger on liquid cooling.
Wild that we have the same setup. Fractal cases are great, I've been using a similar one that Jeff is now using. It was recommended by Will Smith back in 2011, when I built this PC.
@alistercat: the 3700x is a great chip. One thing to keep in mind is AMD is rumored to be launching the 4000 series chips in October (they’ve stated by the end of the year). This will either have he effect of a newer and potentially 20% faster chip, or lower prices on the 3700x. As always there is always something around the corner, and this is a big upgrade already, but in this case the new launch is likely very close.
@oursin_360: it's a 10 year old chip, I would definitely need a new motherboard and that would mean reinstalling the OS. I just did that though so it's not a big deal.
I've switched motherboards without reinstalling before (only on amd hardware though) and it didn't cause much issue for me. I probably swapped to the same brand of motherboard as well, but yeah it's better to reinstall anyway.
@avantegardener: I just switched my case from an NZXT S340 to a Phanteks P500a (non-LED), because I wanted better airflow. It's a great case, and very easy to build in. I also changed the CPU cooler on my 3700x from an air cooler to an AIO, since I could top mount the radiator on the P500a, so CPU temp reductions are likely as a result of that. On my GPU (MSI Gaming X 1080), temps went from 75-77C under load to a max of 70C. Pretty happy with that difference. EDIT: I did replace the intake and exhaust fans with some 140mm Noctua fans I was previously using as intake on the S340, rather than use the stock fans that came with the P500a.
Unfortunately, the P500a can be hard to find right now. I lucked out and it happened to come in stock a couple days after I put in an order, and I didn't have to wait the anticipated 30-45 day back-order period.
@alistercat: Don't thank me just yet. It just occurred to me that we might have actually overlooked something regarding power supplies; not necessarily in terms of lifespan or reliability (though I'm still unsure of that), but in terms of it potentially not having the right connectors for motherboards that use 8+4 pins for CPU power.
Boards that I've used, a Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H for my old i5 4690K build, and an ASUS ROG Strix Z390-E for my current build, just have an 8-pin, same for the Gigabyte B550 AORUS that I suggested. The ASUS Prime X570-P that you picked out has an 8+4 pin for CPU power, which I'm not sure will be fully compatible with power supplies from the Sandy Bridge era. So to use my Corsair RM750x as a reference (which is similar to the EVGA SuperNOVA that I suggested), check and see if your current power supply has the proper outputs for two 8-pin CPU cables and if the cables themselves can be split in half to essentially become 4+4 pin cables, or post the model name and brand of your current PSU and motherboard so I can confirm things visually.
@facelessvixen: I got my PSU slightly wrong. Here is the Cooler Master Silent Pro 850W that I have. It lists it as having CPU 4+4 Pin x 2 so seems to meet the specs. The page also says the type is "Intel ATX12V V2.3 SSI EPS 12V V2.92" and I admit, I really don't know what that means.
What you need to build or buys, is the BARE minimums that won't bottle neck a 1080Ti, right? So that real Q is "What bare minimum system would I need to not bottleneck a GTX 1080 Ti?"
Its a USED 1080 Ti it could fail in 10 months - that is sad, but true. So, I would get what is appropriate for that used GPU windfall as cheaply as possible...no frills. You budget want to be signiflay less than £750, so I'd look for a used system for £500 or less. myabe toss a new SSD in that with the used GPU.
I'm not sure what "downsides" you see to the 10600k? The only real one is a lack of PCIe 4.0 support, which as of right now is kinda irrelevant because neither PCIe 4.0 NVMe nor PCIe 4.0 GPUs, like the new Nvidia 3XXX series, show any real-world advantage for PCIe 4.0 right now.
If past PCIe jumps are anything to go by, then even a card like the 3090 will only have a minor performance impact from the lack of PCIe 4.0, Nvidia does not seem to care at all because all their benchmarks were made on an i9 Intel system on PCIe 3.0.
On the upside the 10600k has a lot more gaming performance than a 3700x, particularly once it's overclocked you can get 10900k performance levels out of it. Which depending on the game can end up making a difference of up to 20 fps to a 3700x, as Zen 2 performance doesn't scale that well when overclocking.
So if gaming is the thing you care about, then the 10600k is right now a very solid choice offering top gaming performance at a rather affordable price if you are able and willing to OC. The more productive tasks you have, the better the 3700x becomes.
There's also the option of going AM4 with a very affordable Zen 2, like a 3600, and hope that Zen 3 will manage to offer something that kicks the gaming performance crown off Intel, and then upgrade to that.
@facelessvixen: Thank you for all the information. It has be so helpful. I kept out of the loop on purpose to avoid temptation. What do you think of the i5-10600K? Reading performance reviews it sounds like it gives almost the same game performance as the 10700K but because it's an i5, less performance on work tasks. Since you also use it for video and photoshop, how huge will the difference be between the i5 and i7?
i5-10600K is significantly cheaper than both the 3700X and 10700K which is why I'm suddenly drawn to it.
Edit: Nevermind. There are too many downsides. The Ryzen 7 3700X still looks appealing.
I've settled on these parts. I hate to use Amazon but they're so much cheaper.
@nethlem: The lower multi-threaded performance for work tasks swayed it, as I would like that option for the future. I can stand to lose a few frames for that especially when I am only aiming for 1440p 60fps where it makes less of a difference. That, plus lower power draw and less heat made it more compelling as I don't intend to upgrade non GPU components for a long time.
I'm waiting to see whether a 4000 series announcement lowers the prices at all but either way it's more robust. I'm still on PCIe 2.0 so 3 or 4 is fine, I'm not banking on that.
What you need to build or buys, is the BARE minimums that won't bottle neck a 1080Ti, right? So that real Q is Its a USED 1080 Ti it could fail in 10 months - that is sad, but true. So, I would get what is appropriate for that used GPU windfall as cheaply as possible...no frills. You budget want to be signiflay less than £750, so I'd look for a used system for £500 or less. myabe toss a new SSD in that with the used GPU.
"What bare minimum system would I need to not bottleneck a GTX 1080 Ti?"
It was used when I bought it but I bought it from a supplier who had only opened it. I've been using it for a year, I had a 970 and 1070 for a long time, not worried about it burning out. I'm keeping my SSD, all my HDDs, network card, PSU and a friend is donating his old case so I got that covered.. Bare minimum would work if I were going to upgrade, but I probably won't for a long time. I've brought the price down to between 450 and 500 so that'll work for what I need.
@alistercat: Okay. That checks out. "ATX12V V2.3" refers to an older specification for power delivery and efficacy, but your PSU should work. I just wanted to check before encouraging spending around £470 for decent parts that won't work due to a relatively simple but £140 oversight, y'know?
So, whether you'll go with the 3700X or hold out for Ryzen 4K, good luck with the upgrades.
@nethlem: eh, the 10600k uses twice the power consumption, runs hotter, has less cores and threads, doesn't support pcie 4.0 and requires an aftermarket cooler [£30 a least if running stock]. using your source the intel chip claims marginal* frame count wins at 1080p [*ranging from 5~20 where both cpu's provide excess of ~150fps]. as resolution increases the cpu effect is felt less if at all [hence 1080p to highlight any difference]. with both new consoles essentially using a 3700x, utilisation of amd hardware will likely improve in future games. costs less on the electric bill. prices likely dropping as new announcements from amd soon [month+]. the 10600k has nice gaming performance but it's just super hard to recommend anything intel atm.
with both new consoles essentially using a 3700x, utilisation of amd hardware will likely improve in future games. costs less on the electric bill. prices likely dropping as new announcements from amd soon [month+]. the 10600k has nice gaming performance but it's just super hard to recommend anything intel atm.
The problem is Intel "cheats". Meaning they put a lot of effort into helping game developers optimize for Intel CPUs, so it's not really a fair fight regardless of the specs of the actual silicon. Maybe that will change as AMD gains desktop market share, but right now it's a bit rigged.
Is the real world difference enough to avoid AMD if you have other uses in mind? No, but it's something to be aware of.
@facelessvixen: Yeah, I get it. I had overlooked it because it's modular and thought I'd just plug in whatever I need but hadn't thought of the CPU. Thanks for looking out for me. 850W was excessive to buy but it has lasted me so long, can't be mad even if it won't be as efficient. Lets see what October brings!
@edcase: When I got my Intel i7-2600K I felt confident choosing that partly because the stock cooler was enough. Even overclocked to 4.2Ghz it has lasted 9 years. I guess things have changed since 2011. PCIe 4 doesn't matter so much but the heat and power draw are big things for me who runs this PC 10 hours a day every day.
An interesting benchmark I saw was Red Dead 2 at 1440, with all current and previous generation CPUs tested there was roughly 1 frame difference between the oldest and newest CPU, both AMD and Intel's full ranges. I knew CPU wasn't much of deal breaker in games but I figured with all the physics and simulation in Red Dead it would make some difference. Apparently not!
@alistercat: the 2600k turned out to be a great investment time, i had the earlier generation i5-750... think 3 years in during a hot summer my temps were hitting above 90°c on the stock cooler! had to change that ^^ but otherwise rode it out till last year~ before upgrading the cpu. I think many models of intel don't even provide a cooler anymore.
pcie 4 probably won't impact upcoming gpu's but in the next year+ we should see faster and cheaper m.2 storage take advantage of it. game requirements will eventually have some storage speed minimums too, but i imagine that phasing up with a ssd combined with large ram might be the transition steps... who knows =]
RD2 was designed to run on the ancient current gen console cpu's so nothing too taxing for modern cpu's, still that's a very small delta! i really hope there will be more invisible system investment [interacting systems, ai, simulations, etc] once the upcoming consoles have settled in. we should definitely expect better use of cpu cores at least!
@facelessvixen: @frytup: @justin258: Thank you all for your help. Just built it and up and running. Switched to AMD for the first time, and my first new CPU in 9 years. All thanks to you guys! :)
How are you feeling the upgrade? I'm currently looking to to build a new PC myself with the new AMD lineup launching in the end of this week. Expecting huge discounts on thelast years ryzen 3000 lineup with black friday/cyber monday.
For budget x570 board i wanted to recommend a Aorus Elite with a Ryzen 3600x, that seems to be the first viable well rounded option in the x570 lineup, anything cheaper and you are better off opting for a 550.
Here is a handy sortable list for anyone also looking into AM4 motherloards: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504
Personally i have my eyes set on a X570 ROG Strix -E motherboard which for some reason dropped much more off its launch price than the other boards and also has a 30$ cashback action at this moment putting close to the budget/entry bracket.
Log in to comment