Relating and Handling the Third Reich as a german is weird (since Drew asked)

(It shouldn't be said, but just to be clear, most of which i'm about to write reflects my own opinion and just that)

Since Drew brought it up in the latest Metal Gear Scanlon, and it might interest people here, let me talk a bit about my (as should be noted, rather mundane) experiences as a late-eighties-born german about the views and legacy of WW2 in Germany.

For me...it was kind of....annoying....well, that takes time to clarify.

As you might figure, in the earlier years (decades, actually) the whole "Nazi Thing" was nothing anyone was particulary keen talking about. Outside of captured soldiers, prosecuted functionaries, nazi party members and war criminals, LOTS of people were involved to some degree with the Nazis, be it as a former member of the hitler youth, a silent supporter or someone who just really liked the fancy stuff the Nazis provided/made affordable to the working class (like travelling to foreign countries, or cars.....you know, the thing Volkswagen got it's name from).

For obvious reasons, i can't talk from a personal standpoint, but the fact that many lived through the Nazi rule and the war and never talked about it, as well as the fact that Germany recovered exceptionally fast from its complete surrender (thankfully the allies had interest in gaining the new germany as an economic partner and provided support in getting the industry rolling again), stuff must've been (and, you know, was) tense, especially with early post war generations who eventually got angry about thier parents silence and the fact that then and now, many companies who profited of the nazi rule still exist and do fine.

Stuff happened.

Eventually, my generation came in.

By the time i was born and eventually gone to school a few years after, people were a lot more vocal about germany's recent past. And understandably, most vocal people antagonized everything related to the third reich...a lot.....A LOT. Like Hollywood already did for decades in movies, Nazis were seen as an ultimate evil, often in a way i found weirdly detached, as if people like Himmler or Goebbels or Hitler itself were some kind of evil aliens.

Which is where we come to the point why i kind of found the thing annoying...education in germany is (was?) really concerned to tackle to topic, and making sure to teach youth that above all, Nazis are really really REALLY bad.

And well, once again, thats certainly reasonable, but theres something like "too much of a right thing".

The Third Reich came up in lots of my classes, from history to german (it seems pretty much guaranteed that literature regarding the topic in some way would be talked about) to politics and whatnot. And in the effort to never ever come off as if Nazi ideology has anything remotely appealing to it, things can become confusing.

For example, the question of why ever people would want Nazis to rule always came off as rather undercooked, making it seem like the german people were "tricked" into letting Hitler come to power (which, to be fair, is actually even somewhat right, but not even close to the complete truth) and making lessons around the dangers of racism and groupthink, as well as how the nazis opressed and censored and killed for the most time. It's actually close to the tail end of my education that i learned about the historic situation and the benefits like the one i pointed at above were talked about (very carefully) to create a more complete picture of the past.

So yeah, on one hand i felt really oversaturated with WW2 history and lessons about the evil of the nazi rule though school, but at the same time, culturally, it's not a whole lot better.

While people don't like to talk about Nazis as anything but the worst, they also sure like to obsess over it. Regardless of where you're from, you've probably caught a glimpse of weird documentaries about tiny details of WW2, and in germany itself, it's not different. Pretty much EVERY topic regarding Hitler, Nazis and WW2 has been covered in one way or another, and such a obsession for this particular piece of history has led to an own kind of weird cult. If you haven't heard about the Hitler Diaries, you should certainly read up on that to maybe get an understanding of the weird obsession i talked about.

So yeah, when it comes to handling third reich history in contemporary germany, you have a lot of thorough obsession combined with a very restricted, one-sided perspective you ever should talk about it publicly (there's been lot of overcooked scandals) and the inevitable backlash (Neo Nazis obviously exist and in certain parts of the country really is a problem)....not to say that of course "All Germans Are Nazis" rhetoric is someting people from other countries love to think/provoke with.

And i might not described if very comprehensively, but i hope you might get why i as a german mostly feel tired and annoyed on those very dark chapters of history.

Please feel free to further discuss, ask, or share your own experiences regarding the topic

This was really interesting to read, thanks for posting duder.

Thanks for sharing @frybird, it's something I've often thought about. It doesn't surprise me that the German education system paints the Nazi party in the same light as Hollywood movies, the ultimate evil. I had the feeling that Germany as a whole felt deep shame after the war ended, and the best way to deter future generations (as you said, generations of Nazi members, silent supporters, etc.) is to paint the whole thing in the worst light possible.

Are there many memorials or war museums honouring those who died in the war for Germany? Here in Australia, we have a massive war memorial in the country's capital, and I'm wondering if Germany hides that kind of thing because of the stigma around what Germany was fighting for.

Seriously, thanks for sharing!

That was an excellent read, man. I appreciate you sharing that. Seriously, I cannot even express how much I can relate to that same type of thing (as I'm born and raised in Waco, Texas, home of the Branch Davidian siege). It's a weird thing when you see the way people outside of your region talk about something and cover something, but your own experience with it might be a different perspective.

Also, fuck Nazis, amirite?

While there are dozens, if not a good hundred memorial sites dedicated to the various victims of the Nazi Regime (sometimes specific to certain groups of victims), as well as museums and former concentration camps repurposed as such, there are indeed not a lot of memorial sites for the fallen soldiers of WW2, mostly because the Allies demanded of Germany after thier surrender to demolish existing war memorials as well as forbidding it from constructing memorials whose intent is to "maintain militaristic tradition" or national socialism.

However, there are a few memorial sites for fallen soldiers in West Germany (the formerly soviet occupied east does not have those, except for some sites that specifically honor fallen soviet soldiers of WW2) that are not specific, but do include names of soldiers fallen in WW2, mostly in cities of (formerly) strong military significance (who were allowed to stay either because of archetectual historic significance or as the main memorials of forces such as the marine or air forces)

That sounds rough, i mean, at least i am not living somewhere that makes for a asshole-disaster-tourism spot, so all the things i lament about are not something i would often be actively confronted with in day to day life

And yeah, while i happily agree with any "fuck Nazis" sentiment, the sheer obsession with the historic ones freaks me out, annoys me and sadly makes me at least "get", if not necessarily understand why people would ironically open up to ideas and ideals of facism and national socialism as it makes such fertile ground to make a contrarian stand.

Great write up Frybird, thanks for posting! I found it really interesting.

@frybird: Great read. It rather interesting that you went through almost the same experience as I did, but from the other side. My grandma was a holocaust survivor and that subject was extremely touchy around her, for the obvious reasons.

Growing up in Israel, a country where the holocaust and WW2 is an integral part of your history, you pretty much spend a lot of your youth, and a huge part of adult education, getting taught about Nazi Germany and the Third Reich and how evil those people were to a point that, as you pointed out, they become these evil aliens charecters. Considering in Israel you have a whole day dedicated to the holocaust.

I don't know how it is these days, but I also remember a point where I started feeling oddly detachable.

I think what you went through/going through, is due to this subject still being very recent, and as long as you still have people who are alive that went through that dark period in time, it'll remain a hot and touchy subject.

I mean it's rather interesting to see how we look at genocide if it's far enough removed from us. Take for example what the native americans went through and how we look at it with this odd detachment, though I am sure native americans fell otherwise as what their ancestors had to go through still reverberates in their society.

I wonder how people will feel about WW2 and the holocaust in 500 years. I am guessing people will feel about the same way as we feel today about any genocide that happened in the distant past, with an odd detached outlook on it. I won't be surprised if you'll see books titled "The Good Things That Came out of Nazi Germany" or if Hitler's position in world history will be revised. I mean look how we talk about historical figures like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Genghis Kahn and Emperor Qin. Making them into these great figures in history even though they were homicidal maniacs who were only concerned with how much power they can assume under them, sound familier, no?

Back on your point though. Even though Germany has this rich history of music, literature and art, what most people will immediately feel when hearing the word Germany is sadly Nazi. It's that old "Sins of the father" thing and wether for good or bad most Germans will have to live with with that dark stain on their history.

I admire you for writing your feelings about this very touchy subject. I don't know many people who will the balls to talk about how they feel about this subject on a very public forum.

I'm wondering, how is germany generally viewed after such an education?

After all, Israel is probably the country to take the holocaust most personally, and it's understandable to demonize it even more for it, but at the same time, there is a (abeit often shaky) relationship between Germany and Israel nowadays....

I mean it's rather interesting to see how we look at genocide if it's far enough removed from us. Take for example what the native americans went through and how we look at it with this odd detachment, though I am sure native americans fell otherwise as what their ancestors had to go through still reverberates in their society.

Of course, thing with the native americans is, they lost. And as history is written by winners, it seems to me the US has a MUCH easier time sweeping this shameful chapter in building thier nation under the rug. From the standpoint of a "loser" country who was forced to face up and make amends to thier genocide, it's weird and feels like America should be alot more ashamed of what happened with the natives, but of course germans haven't got a particulary good standing to argue this.

I wonder how people will feel about WW2 and the holocaust in 500 years. I am guessing people will feel about the same way as we feel today about any genocide that happened in the distant past, with an odd detached outlook on it. I won't be surprised if you'll see books titled "The Good Things That Came out of Nazi Germany" or if Hitler's position in world history will be revised

Again, as someone who completely lost a war, Hitler's legacy will probably always a negative one, although of course people might ease up on demonizing him eventually.

At the same time, i do wish there would be more open talk about the "Good Things That Came out of Nazi Germany". Because as much suffering the Nazis ended up causing to the Jewish, the Handicapped, the countries they occupied and who else was undesirable enough, it's a fact that Hitler and national socialism did not came out of nowhere.

As the name implies, national socialism was very much about the welfare of working class citizens (the "desireable ones" at least) and restoring pride to germany after losing out and taking pretty much all of the blame for WW1 (even though it was much more complicated than that). Chances are, if you were a health middle class german without foreign roots and no interest in arguing against the NS leadership, you might've enjoyed how the government pre-war made certain luxuries more affordable, improved infrastructure (true reasons why they did that aside), had great interest in supporting and caring for nuclear families and pushed the economy (again, if ignorant that this was done through disowning and driving out undesirable businesses and setting up for large-scale warfare).

And while it is true that Hitler gained the power he had through deceptive political maneuvering and brute force tactics, i feel like there is too much emphasis on this and not enough emphasis on how people often just did not mind or welcomed the Nazi rule, because as shameful as it might be, i feel like the more important lesson for the future lies there.

(Since i usually tend to avoid devoting myself too much to this part of history for reasons excessively stated i cannot provide much in terms of reading or viewing material. However, there is a Canadian TV miniseries named Hitler: The Rise of Evil featuring Robert Carlyle as Hitler going from his youth and ending on him claiming absolute rule in germany that, even though it has weird problems [it meme-ified among me and friends because of several "sad puppy" moments when it's shown how no one gave a shit about Hitler at the early beginnings of his political career] and is somewhat mediocre outside of it's pretty good cast, still is commendable for exploring how Hitler gained a following and increasing popularity, something that is almost unexplored in films that are not themselves Nazi Propaganda. If you are interested in why it ever came to WW2 from the very basic roots, that's a start)

For once, no actually, Languages came up (The Vocal Parasite thing) and Drew has an interest in german as well as other languages of (former) enemies of the US, because he's interested in what led to them going against the US from thier perspective, and how they deal with the past after a war.

EDIT: Dan did of course had a wrestling anecdote regarding WWE fucking up with german fans though.

German here too. My personal experience that a lot of outsiders have a much better understanding of the whole topic than most Germans. It sometimes feels as if everyone was forced to have one predefined view of the whole thing that is practically "It was bad, evil and we should feel guilty. Let's move on." Most people don't go beyond that and whenever I talk about things like that with people they will argue that we as a nation are educated on our history. I strongly belief that this is not the case if you don't venture into our history yourself. Like you said, everyone settles for the evil approach and doesn't want to think about it.

I think that's wrong. For the most part because there is this huge veil of silence drawn and you really can't speak open about it without causing commotion. There is such touch of forbiddeness about it and even though it didn't even happen 100 years ago people tend to dismiss everything as if it was ancient history. The same applies to WWI and our colinisation history. As if we tried so hard to dissociate ourselves from these events that we have become disconnected. And I do think we have to connect ourselves to these things. It's like this country has only existed for the last 25 years sometimes. Everything before that is alien, something else. Unless it was good, because we can deal with good things. Let's not talk about bad things.

For one thing, and this is purely based on my personal habitat and school experience, education in school and outside school is terrible or even non-existant. Half-hearted really. I grew up with mostly old-fashioned GDR teachers and most of them grew up in a system that wasn't transparent either, so most of them have a hard time opening up to an extent. But still, they had to abide to school progams. For my time and from what I have heard from others, these things weren't that good. In fact, most of my classes were about the wars. Just plain politics and tactics. I don't think we ever had a deep conversation about the chemical warfare and Germany's role in it in WWI in class. I could probably go on and on about all of the topics that were left untouched. We also never visited a KZ in school. Which is shameful since Sachsenhausen isn't even 40 minutes away. This was at a Gymnasium (high school) of course.

I am glad that I've spend countless hours of self-education on these matters and an interest in confronting these topics via litarature, movies and art. And even though I don't remember all the dates, names and facts I was able to gain a better understanding about these times. It pains me when people don't want to engage with that and blissfully go on into ignorance. I feel ashamed for my country. Not because of what happened in the past, but how we handle our past.

I realize that I might have been just really unlucky with my provided education and that other schools, parents or communities might have done better. There are quite a few memorials, landmarks and communities that are really fitting and do a marvelous job at educating these things. But that doesn't stop the feeling that Germany is really bad at coping with it's past all over the board.

@frybird:

Like I said, I can really only answer from my generation pov. I have no clue how the younger kids view it since I don't live in Israel anymore.

People in Israel do realize that most of the people responsible for Nazi Germany or were a part of it are for the most part, gone. In general terms there are no real ill will towards the german people. I mean that would be rather idiotic. If anything there's a certain kind of pity since as I've I said before, any subsequent generation has to live with that dark stain. The feelings might be different with holocaust survivors though many of them understand that blaming the "kids" would be the wrong thing to do.

I do remember as kid that my grandma refused to go on a flight to the USA to visit her kid, my uncle, and other surviving family members, that had to do a stop at Germany. Back then direct flights to USA were very rare. Hell, she even refused to go on a direct flight that went over Germany.

As as the "The good thing that came out of Nazi Germany" then I remember one history class in high school that covered that issue. It was only one class and I remember how much controversy it stirred that no further classes on that issue were held. Individuals might be smart but people can be very ignorant.

Later in life when I started reading history books on my own I discovered more about all the nazi doctors and scientists that were taken from post war germany and brought to the US and how research they did under Nazi Germany rule directly resulted in cancer research, genetics, dentistry, to name a few. Also was very surprised to learn about Wernher von Braun, who invented the V2 rocket was only responsible taking the US to the moon.

However, even though almost 70 years has passed since the end of WW2 and the fall of Nazi Germany the iron on that issue is still hot and it's not a subject that many people are willing to discuss openly.

I recommend you watch a documentary called Hitler's Children. A very good and chilling documentary about the kids and closely related people of some of the most famous/powerful figures in Nazi Germany.

and also check out a 1977 movie called Cross of Iron.

I wonder if much of your experience comes from you coming from the East (perhaps even the former DDR/GDR?) while i live(d) in west germany. After all, the post war history of germany is probably very much night-and-day between West and East Germany, with the east even nowadays arguably scarred from what has it's roots in the end of WW2, and i wouldn't be surprised if much of what i've said about what was told to me about the decades after the war, as written in the OP does not even remotely apply to people living in the GDR or in close proximity to it.

Although i can say that i've learned very little in school regarding WW1, and that much of the education about history was overshadowed by the Third Reich/WW2 and the GDR/FRG split and reunification.

Great read, duder. Like Drew, I'm fascinated by the German perspective of WW2. Sadly, none of the German friends I've had were ever particularly interested in talking history.

I'm also really interested in the Japanese perspective, but I seem to hear even less about that. Hell, thanks to the oh-so-wonderful US education system, I didn't even know about the Japanese internment camps or Unit 731 until George Takei brought up the camps and I saw Men Behind The Sun/Philosophy of a Knife (both movies being exploitative as hell, but they did at least lead me to educating myself).

I would think so. I was born in '89, so naturally haven't lived the GDR or the few years of chaos after the Fall. But it's still all too recently that things were still changing and not yet there where they should have been when I went to school. We had a lot of changes for our schools and my Gymnasium went through a lot of testing (in addition to changes). Living in Berlin, we didn't have enough teachers, so there are few more factors here aswell. But still, having teachers who teached in the GDR are of course prone to be different from teachers from FRG. My history and geography teacher who lived in the GDR always told us stories about his life. Because the school system allowed it back then he was able to choose the topics himself a bit. He went overboard with GDR/FRG of course, making the Third Reich a very short few weeks (!). In geography he mainly teached about things that were more relevent to GDR knowledge and we even had a GDR music history class one time (I enjoyed that). I wouldn't say that's bad, but still kind of one-sided in the end. I can think of many more examples like him, but not many are/were that open about it as him.

I went to school in the former East, my parents were from the East, I grew up mainly in the East. I was brought up with a mindset that is influenced by the East you could say.

On the topic of WWII: What I gathered from speaking to family and teachers (from GDR) is, that their education on these matters was definitively different from the FRG. I can't speak in details here, since I don't remember how exactly they handled it but it wasn't detailed nor openly. I should probably try to get to the bottom of this again with a few people.

Turns out there is a lot to cover in our history for the past hundred years (and more).

The idea of keeping quiet about past wrongs, and sensitive subjects never leads to positive outcomes. Instead of discussing the issues and providing avenues for information, you look away from the wound, letting it fester overtime. The result is what we see today, where nationalistic sentiment is growing, which in itself isn't bad. Nationalistic sentiment tends to rise when ever larger parts of the population believe they are suffering injustice. Although there is a smaller portion of that block that does have romantic delusions about Hitler's Reich. This romantic connection is completely the fault of the German government and its people. Instead of teaching about the Nazis, breaking it down into manageable chunks, you have Nationalism forever tied to the Nazis. Which in tern pushes most Nationalist to be labeled Nazis, although untrue.

Hitler wasn't whole-heartily elected by the German people, a large enough base of support (~30%?) paired with political maneuvering gained him the Chancellorship. This could of easily been a lesson in how political corruption, and gaming of the system should not be treated as a slap on the wrist. Instead it should be treated as the highest of crimes against the people.

Nationalistic tendencies are a natural reaction to increased globalization. When globalization fail's to deliver on its promised prosperity and other benefits, some people are unwilling to live with the side-effects. People who feel their way of life is being slowly eroded by Globalization.

A similar scenario is happening in Japan, which had similar policies of not discussing WW2. Although Japan is less oriented towards apologies, since its Historically always been a very Nationalistic country. They even have a leader now who refuses to acknowledge or apologize for some of Japan's actions in WW2.

Germany's perceived fear of being labeled Nazis was simply used by governments to maintain power in their favor. In some weird way a reverse Hitler? No reasonable human being in 2015 thinks German's are Nazis or even close to being labeled such. In recent years though the labeling fear drum has been played to prevent the rise of a stronger Nationalistic parties similar to France. In the end, spread information, no matter how uncomfortable. The only people censorship benefits is glutenous politicians/companies/organizations.

As a Brit we got WW2 a lot in history class. A lot of it seemed to concentrate on the propaganda machine and some of the causes for National Socialism to rise. Simply put, they made Germany feel special again after a disastrous Great War and the consequences that followed. Hitler might not have been democratically elected but, man he the people right behind him. That's the thing that strikes me about the whole situation. Ordinary Germans swept up in this national euphoria and they all felt it was leading to something.

Its a shame the way history is taught in schools, the darker matters don't tend to get discussed. Or if they do, they're so far back in time they're unrelatable. We did something on the Peasants Revolt. I couldn't tell you a thing about that. I couldn't go into great detail about how Britain won WW2. Seems like the most learning you tend to do is outside of that system. Finding out some of rough things done in the name of the British Empire is certainly eye-opening.

Thanks for this.

I can somewhat relate to having a dark history. Being born and living in Bosnia, I've had... awkward feelings towards the history of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand (crazy series of events you should read if you don't know the whole story). A lot of people understand that this was what initiated WW1 and connect Bosnians or all Yugoslavians to just that. On the other hand, the Young Bosnians (organization responsible for the assassination, with the help of the Black Hand) are also seen as fighters of freedom from Austro-Hungarian rule. It's hard to think what I should feel about that part of Bosnian history. The thing to remember though is that we will never understand what it was like to live back then and how people made came to their conclusions and decisions; we won't ever truly understand the context, information and lack-there-of that the people were exposed to.

I suspect that detachment is due more to it happening over several centuries rather than in the span of 5 years. What the native Americans went through involved numerous foreign powers making treaties with them, or enslaving them, or both, or taking advantage of existing grudges & wars (such as the Aztecs vs everyone else), on top of European diseases running rampant, making for several centuries of mixed relations and disease until they were assimilated or driven onto reservations. It was more of a gradual death of their culture than a systematic attempt to wipe out every last one. The Holocaust left a searing image because of how... industrial it was. There's been slaughters & massacres in the past, but kind of hard to beat ruthlessly efficient mass crematoriums for impact.

I'm Scottish. The WW2 stuff we did in history class in secondary school had a very sympathetic attitude towards the Germans in WW2. The lessons went out of their way to stress why the Germans elected and supported Hitler, and what sort of atmosphere in Weimar Germany allowed national socialism to grow. We talked at length about the Treaty of Versailles and just how badly it fucked over and humiliated ordinary Germans and we also talked about the legitimately positive aspects the Nazis had on ordinary German life quality - for example: a significant reduction in unemployment, massive infrastructure projects, insane technological and economic growth and just a feeling of pride. Of course, we still covered the Holocaust and all of Germany's war crimes in detail, but nobody outried lied about how every German was "evil" for supporting Hitler.

We never covered war crimes committed by the Allies. We didn't cover the atomic bombings (or firebombings) of Japan or the bombing of Dresden. We never even talked about the Soviet war effort or their (serious) war crimes, either. Japan wasn't even mentioned.

Curiously, the British education system has more of a fascination with World War 1 than 2. It's more interesting to talk about World War 1 because it's distant enough in the past that there's no "good" or "bad" side, just a tragic event for all parties involved. It also leads to way less biased essay writing.

I'm an English Jew who has lived in Austria and Germany and I found Dan's comments to be misinformed and ignorant. But that's his thing, I guess.

"National Socialist" isn't analogous to "German".

I don't want to derail this conversation regarding Hitler and the Third Reich, but you are wrong about Native Americans suffering a "gradual death of their culture than a systematic attempt to wipe out every last one." While there was no grand plan to completely eradicate every single Native on the continent or islands, there were definitely systematic attempts to wipe out entire tribes. Let's not get into the whose genocide is the worst.

Everyone has some dark shit that their country has done in the past, so I feel it's hypocritical to hold any of it over their heads, especially once the vast majority of the living are no longer any of the people responsible. As far as I'm concerned, people in Germany today are no more to blame for Nazis than people in the US today are to blame for slavery or the near extermination of Native Americans.

Great blog! I've spent a considerable portion of my life studying European history (I even have fancy pieces of paper to prove it), which means I always have to take a step back when discussing subjects like this, because my experiences are so far outside the norm. US education about WWII at the collegiate level is almost always very careful to mention the grey areas surrounding Hitler's rise to power. I have personally taught courses that cover the topic, and both the rise of the Third Reich and the horrors of the Holocaust pose questions that students actually want to talk about (an extremely uncommon occurrence, I assure you). I think the immediate relevance to their own lives, but relative distance from themselves as Americans, lets the topic breath without the same societal pressure you must have gone through growing up.

The high school level curriculum for WWII, or history in general really, is depressingly bare bones by comparison. Interestingly, it isn't too dissimilar to what you described, but with less guilt and more brevity. We have our own bugbears to obsess over, like the U.S. Civil War.

As someone who has lived on the edge of the U.S. South (aka not the Deep South) for most of my life, I can tell you that much of what you describe about modern Germans' feelings about the Nazi's is reminiscent of southerners feelings about the Confederacy, but replace the guilt with grief and regret. In some Southern public schools the war is called the "War of Northern Aggression," and issues like slavery and the poorly thought-out economic plans of the Confederates are swept under the rug in favor of stories of Southern heroism, States' rights and Northern-imposed cruelties (some which is even true!). It just goes to show how public remembrance of an event can shape the way we talk about and teach it, whether it be Nazi's or Confederates.

This is an interesting post, particularly because it comes at a time when there's a kickstarter for a card game called 'Secret Hitler' by one of the guys behind CAH.

On the one hand, I can see this pointing out how someone like Hitler could come to power, but on the other hand, it's just plain gross playing as Hitler or his supporters, even if it's a lizard Hitler. I know you can't speak for every German, but how do you think some German's might take it?

Oh yes, when even having a minor kerfuffle with a german, that's the first and softest spot you go for, even if basically always it's completely unrelated. It's very much understood you're taught extensively you should feel guilty, so it's so easy to throw a nazi salute or similar to provoke you. I've seen it done between people in their 20's which of course have nothing to do with the Nazi regime

As a German born in the late seventies, I grew up with a lot of the people who served under the Nazi regime still alive (including my grandfather). I got the feeling they were mostly ashamed for having fallen for the promises Hitler made after his rise to power and his Third Reich. Before that Germany was called the "Weimarer Republik" and wasn't doing to well. The country had a very high unemployment rate and hyper inflation. People needed a "strong" person who gave them a direction. So they fell for someone who promised to lead them out of their misery. By the time they realised that "way out" was just another catastrophe it was to late. Hitler didn't rise to power with promises of world domination he made to the German people. He rose to power by providing a scapegoat and instilling a sense of direction in the common person. Most of the Germans never really were REAL nazis. Not even the soldiers. They were just dragged along and felt to powerless to change anything about the way things went. Ander after that they were ashamed of that. This should be (and is) an example for the world today because things like this can still happen. All it needs is a charismatic person, mass media, and a group of people who cann be used as a scapegoat.

I've always been fascinated with that time period, the 1930s and 1940s. Hitler and the Nazis included. As U.S citizen, growing up our history classes in early grades and even up into high school paint American History as a bunch of ingenious prodigies who fought against evil around every turn. It wasn't until my last few years of school and even college that I learned how dark my own history is and how well our government and media have succeeded in wiping our dark past under the proverbial rug. You learn about some of the darker things about people you thought were icons of goodness. I was brought up to think Lincoln was trying to do the right thing and abolish slavery but that was really a minute reason for him to pursue ending of slavery. It's just an example that happened to pull up in the back of my mind but you all get my gist.

Back to Hitler, say what you want obviously he was a sick man. But if you research into his tactics of military and economic strategy to rebuild Germany back up so quickly after the first world war you can see why he gained so much popularity. I having a saying, " The difference between insanity and genius is success." Had Hitler not been so egotistical to start a war on both the west and eastern fronts, he may have very well succeeded in over taking all of Western Europe. I'm not saying I am a fan of him by any means but strictly from a historical perspective and trying to remain objective as possible, it is intriguing. Not to mention that every Nazi soldier was a Jew hating sadist. Many of them were just soldiers staying loyal to their country following orders.

Thank you for your post I love reading insight from others. I especially enjoy the insight from those across the world because it's honest and interesting, more importantly it's new to me.

From my personal side, i don't mind.

I played WW2 shooters, really liked the latest Wolfenstein Game (which i imported from the UK so the game can stay honest with itself...also i import most games i own anyway) and love the insanely funny portrayal of Hitler in Danger 5. And while there we always some people offended, germans make jokes about Hitler and Nazis as much as any other.

Mel Brooks had a great quote on that:

Of course it is impossible to take revenge for 6 million murdered Jews. But by using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power and myths.

(That said, i do sometimes wonder if i should stop blasting the great alternate-nazi-history pop songs from Wolfenstein:TNO at full volume on my car radio ^^)

I think absolving people of any responsibility like that isn't right. Sure, afterwards of course no one was a Nazi.

I come from what I would call a "normal" german family. My grandparents from my mothers side weren't party members or anything (relatives of my grandmother were even social democrats) - so definitely no Nazis, right?

Yet my grandfather was in the SS, and both my grandparents, according to my mother, talked very highly about Hitler even after the war. No regret, or just regret they lost the war.

Also, it's not like antisemitism was invented by the Nazis. They could have never used it as succesfully if it wouldn't have been such a prevailing line of misguided thinking in society back then.